Clean it up
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What an interesting talk OP. Thanks for posting. I'd assume /sci/ would enjoy it too.
>Abolish names and places
I can smell the kikery from here.
If you listen to his talk he says they need to be replaced with hashes and have global hashtables to be able to look up anything desired. Basically to avoid the mess of having to supply 6+ different fields of identification just to identify a city or person.
That is dehumanizing the world. Hashes are for machines, not humans. Names are not for machines, they are for humans. Humans need names and labels, not just to identify things but as a means toward social and emotional attachment.
And we'd destroy that for what? And who would benefit? Come up with one reason that doesn't inevitably lead to better tracking and surveillance of individuals or groups for whatever is the "greater good" of a particular decade.
Let's not tailor humanity's behavior to the machines that may one day be used to oppress us just because you can't be arsed to supply 6+ different fields of identification to identify a city or person.
yikes.
based
cringe and skynetpilled
You would think the jews would be against being identified by numbers
The entire slide is about how the world is full of garbage and we keep adding to it rather than minimizing, cleaning up and optimizing. Your immediate paranoia that the Jews are behind this wanting to kill you is exactly why the world is a shithole of as mess.
have EFA269F7
>...
said 71235094
BOI HE BOUT TO DO IT
Ericson dropping bombs since outlaw techo psychobitch
All of Joe Armstrong's talks are cool.
John Blow has an entertaining doom talk youtu.be
>minimizing, cleaning up and optimizing
And how exactly does that require eliminating the human factor (names) in identifying people and places?
The number identifies a post, not a person. Posts don't have feelings or a mind of their own, they're data in a machine.
Do you want to be data in a machine too? More importantly, do you want to be treated as a number in a database? Or do you have a name? Parents? Went to a certain school? Have certain friends, all of which have names, I assume? Would you marry someone with a name and have named children? Or perhaps you'd be more satisfied marrying 71235202 and have 71235115 as your child, live in state house 56641488 in city 31547, where you also went to school 21241 and met friend 6624557 and 6624324, and work at company 965542.
Madness and stupidity.
If you don't see the cluster fuck and waste in our current identification processes then you're retarded. Also don't even try to pretend this hasn't already happen because that's the entire point of SSN. You're no more dehumanized than you already are.
>do you want to be treated as a number in a database?
dude everyone is a number in a database if the thing was designed correctly. Using names as primary keys is a fucking disaster.
It sounds like he's describing IPFS.
So why take it further and aggravate it's potential against people? What is the true goal and who benefits?
And what does any of this have to do with cleaning up garbage? You'd cut the yearly increase of that in half just by discouraging/punishing consumerist behavior, but NOPE can't do that because some people with brackets around their names wouldn't be able to push the latest version of their wares every single year to get around market saturation. Better to just introduce more efficient systems of control to keep the plebs in line in the name of whatever cause public figures pretend to give a shit about this decade.
This talk made me think of NixOS. I wonder if Joe knew about it.
The patrician system is what3words. Every 3mx3m location on Earth identified by three letter words. The more densely populated the area, the shorter and simpler the words. Similar words are intentionally placed far apart to prevent confusion.
Sadly their algorithm is closed source so it will never become a standard.
I'm glad that projects are focusing on these principles at least but it's not like these concepts are new. We've gone decades without propagating technical progress, we might have more. I mean shit, practical content addressable distribution may be considered solved by BitTorrent already, but only pirates seem to care about it. I'm sure NixOS isn't the first to solve reproducible builds either.
Hopefully the collective frustration with all of our current shitty software will build to be enough to force people to switch to something better. It looks like devs have already gotten frustrated enough to solve it technically.
*three words, not three letter words.
From what I understand, cloud storage providers do one of the things he's talking about - hash files to prevent redundancy. So I guess we're heading in that direction since so many things are moving to the cloud.
Any type of good SAN setup also dedupes when possible. Too bad his ideas will get shut down immediately by paranoid people who think he's taking over the world
The thing that sucks is that it's like gated control. I don't have any problem with my data living in THE cloud, I have a problem when my data is living in a SPECIFIC cloud.
I don't need my entire music collection to exist on my phone, I just need access to it. And the problem there is like, I don't care if the mp3 comes from my home machine, google's, or someone elses phone nearby, I just want the data I want.
The trend with cloud providers seems to be that they're decentralized, and not distributed. Which imposes all kinds of arbitrary failure points and access control.
With something like Google music, I'm not pulling data from my machines, or someone elses besides Google's own.
To put it another way, it's a step in the right direction, but only internally for them. A Google hash usable with Google rather than a universal hash usable with the entire global network.
>The trend with cloud providers seems to be that they're decentralized, and not distributed.
>To put it another way, it's a step in the right direction, but only internally for them. A Google hash usable with Google rather than a universal hash usable with the entire global network.
Saying it even another way. It's like they're distributed internally, but look decentralized to the outside world. Much like a CDN looks like a centralized endpoint, but actually isn't. You got to a central URL and it gets balanced internally. We need to hoist these layers up to users. And that's possible, but not profitable, so it probably won't happen.
Seems pretty cool.
So what we need is a cloud hosted on all connected computers.
It really doesn't sound that foreign when it's put that way.
to add, that's essentially what he's talking about since he mentions "git + bitorrent"
When I heard his talk I was amazed but the more I think about it the more it feels like stuff we already have, just taken a bit further (which I'm all for)
>back in my day programs used to just work by golly
>some shitwipe closed source program should be the standard of finding locations on a map
yeah nah, get fucked
>it's closed source therefore it's bad
go fuck you are self
No.71235094 is right!
I thought it was gimmicky and noone would use it other than some nerds who think its a fun idea.
But now i can tell my car literally 3 words and it starts the navigation. My problem with it is that "Street Number City" is already 3 words and the number of times where one would need to drive to a very specific 3x3m location is rare, although it happens.
But its nonsense that the words change between languages and how is the package delivery guy supposed to find the right house when theres a strange layout.
block chain already does this to an extent, it also means you have someones cp on your computer
Pointing back to this IPFS shows promise.
I've looked into these kinds of things as far back as Bittorrent DNA.
DNA failed for the obvious reasons, it was proprietary, and had all kinds of restrictions. But in practice, it really was just BitTorrent-like functionality in the browser. On the server and developer end, it was a nightmare.
ZeroNet was a cool experiment, but had all kinds of weird restrictions as well as security flaws that undermined a principle of these systems. (no trust should be a given / crypto secure).
Things like Freenet are ultimately half baked with no signs of changing. People are not happy with java, this carries with i2p. I think this is unfair, but you can't convince people. It has to appeal. The publicity doesn't help either.
IPFS seems to fundamentally take into account a lot of the necessities that are otherwise left not standardized.
Look at Direct Connect clients and how many variants there are. It's like the XMPP of P2P systems. Technically good, but every client has to negotiate feature compatibility (which is lacking in practice).
Meanwhile, I can just paste this and it works.
(except for the spam filter because sha256 hash lel)
ghostbin.com
>Look at Direct Connect clients and how many variants there are. It's like the XMPP of P2P systems. Technically good, but every client has to negotiate feature compatibility (which is lacking in practice).
I'm not going to pretend like DC isn't the big brain choice though. Especially when coupled with IRC. But still.
>complains about dehumanizing actions
>posts on an anonymous basket weaving forum under the number 71235094
Man up and become a tripfag or shut the fuck up you hypocrite.
A post number identifies a post, not the poster, you disingenuous fucks.
We're all anonymous here, bucko. So of course it identifies the poster. Become a tripfag or stay an anonymous number.
HAHAHAHA OH NO NO NO HE DID NOT JUST SAY THAT
t. reddit
How can one man be so based?
Sure let's do it. Dibs on the first girl known as A2.
This is actually retarded. Using git doesn't remove my privacy or deumansise me. What the fuck are you talking about.
people over 40 in tech should stop working.
relevant talk from jonathan blow about the same subject
youtube.com
Love this man and am excited to see what happens with JAI.
It's refreshing to see other people frustrated at the lack of utilized resources. Computers are faster than ever and software is slower than it was in the 70's. How did that happen.
development cost > hardware cost
its really not that difficult to comprehend.
you build a cv by making open source repos and then abandoning them, that's why there's so much 1uping, why javascript and browsers get bigger and worse
you get promoted by creating new exciting projects that add no value for society
in the other side of the spectrum you can secure a job by making the worst code possible that only you can understand
anyone can become a developer
startups produce software optimized for acquisitions
its easier to make an electron app than to dedicate resources for multiple platforms (native), and if this problem is ever solved the top dog will try to eee
legacy, eee and vendor lock-in is used strategically
autism
if you watch the jonathan blow video you'll see they use many more programmers now to achieve much less, and that is more expensive.
Development time would go down, if we as a collective shipped better, and simpler, software.
Development cost is only higher because developers today are a magnitude less productive with infinitely more resources.
>hire a firm in California for 18 trillion dollars made up of 200 people to make a phone app that can't disambiguate error messages so it just throws up a blue screen with the word OOPSIE WHOOPSIE XD on it
vs
>I wrote this entire thing in lisp in 10 minutes and I get paid what teachers make
achieve much less ?
Just look what the tech industry is worth now compared to 20 years ago. Absolutely no one cares about efficiency when you have such rapid growth.
also im not watching no gay ass video.
Now convert the value of what it's worth to Zimbabwe dollars, much more impressive :^)
>worth is relevant
will you stop saying dumb shit and watch the video before you embarrass yourself again?
i know this is tech board but i though people at least could understand economic arguments.
>monetary worth is practical worth
From the beginning it has been said that a good programmer puts himself out of a job. Bad programmers are employed for years and years on the same projects because it's their salary. It doesn't benefit them to solve the problem in a true sense, they need only patch holes.
Already watched it. Let me save you 2 hr of your life:
> muh boomer tech is being forgotten
good.
> in 50 years no one will know how to make low-level programs.
evidently false. LLVM is a thing. Compilers are much more sophisticated than they used to be.
>Check out my meme language, im so smart.
No.
Imagine comparing a fucking game designer to Joe fucking Armstrong. A physicist, a mathematician, a computer scientist, and an all-around genius.
>pay 2000 programmers to do something a single programmers used to do in three weeks but it takes them even more time
kys redditor
you sound butthurt, maybe you should try being employed.
The people making the counter argument likely ARE you ding dong. I know I can speak from experience. Finding someone both competent AND caring is rare. Most people just want to be paid.
As a matter of fact, all clojure related videos contain rants about good old days and how all software is shit. Meanwhile functional programming (think Erlang clojure Rust) is still very niche and immutability blows up your ram.
Is it simply the lack of teaching?
Damn it is actually crazy how much software breaks. Also this guy gets a based from me.
Good software and efficient practice will come to you but only if you post "Blow them out Jon Blow"
It is lack of adoption, as immutability is both a quirk and a limitation. It’s useful for concurrency but the latter can be implemented in mutable way fine.
Lisp is basically a script; Haskell is too complex and useless. Erlang and clojure are underdeveloped.
When terry was asked once about Haskell and lisp he said that if you’re programming in Haskell ‘you are in deep ocean with some nigger and you have no idea what’s underneath you’. That metaphor describes the dealbreaker for using this shit in gamedev, os, embedded you name it.
> If you don't see the cluster fuck and waste in our current identification processes then you're retarded
You are the retarded one user. Human communication need a sort of redundancy, that's why human use natural languages as opposed to formal one
Blow them out Jonny.
So how do you combat this? Making simple programs doing one thing and doing it well aka the UNIX philosophy?
the one and the same
youtube.com