I see alot of people say on here that a lot of programmers cannot program...

I see alot of people say on here that a lot of programmers cannot program. How can this be if people go to university for years to learn? I hear about seniors who are idiots when they made a career out of programming. Why is this? Are good programmers really rare?

Attached: fizzbuzz-trek-17-638.jpg (638x479, 63K)

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any programmer can do this. Pajeet, who applied to literally every single Craigslist ad and barely has a basic grasp on the english language, cannot.

Pajeet will never be a programmer, but sometimes he can scam people into giving him a job for a few months.

This. The thing is not that there are a lot of programmers who cannot program; the problem is that there are people who are not programmers at all that are pretty good at bluffing their way through a job interview.

The most baffling thing is not so much that people struggle with it, but that after they've failed they have the nerve to ask if the modulo operator has any real uses.

Of course it has many real uses.

As a self-taught programmer, I always wondered this myself. Then I went to school for a CS degree.
There were people who had literally no idea how to program in the 2000 level courses.
I thought "that's fine, they're obvious very new at this, they'll get the hang of it as they go."
But then Data Structures came and went. People were still struggling with writing a function here.
Then Distributed Processing came and went - semester-long project where you wrote a client/server FTP application.
Then fucking Compilers came and went - where you had to actually write a fucking compiler.

Now we're all graduating and I'd bet that most of my classmates would fail Fizz Buzz if you asked them to write it on a whiteboard.

At the career fair, companies were giving short quizzes when they took people's resumes.
Graduating seniors couldn't answer "what's the difference between an abstract class and interface?" or "what are the fundamental attributes of OOP?"

school?
they no longer teach CS at universities?

A lot of programming applicants can't program. That's why FizzBuzz exists. Any programmer can solve it easily.

But yeah there are a million different problems with programmers in industry and why they suck. Some never 100% understood programming in the first place and just kinda make educated guesses until things work. Some could solve the problem but just never put a single bit (hehe) of critical thinking into solving a problem. Others learn all the basic tools and just arent curious to alternatives or newer tools or design practices and just never get better, and continually produce working kinda poor quality code. And finally there are people with all the tools and curiosity who couldn't critically think their way out of a box (like the invert binary tree guy, couldn't even think his way to "wait, what do you mean by that exactly?").

>invert binary tree guy
someone fill me in

leetcode.com/problems/invert-binary-tree/description/

Computer science is not the same as programming. Programming is a skill like welding or cooking. Not a science. Smartasses are not welcome here.

>they no longer teach CS at universities?
They do teach it, but the degree path has been flooded by people with no interest in the subject and are only there because they "heard it makes good money."

I looked at people's project source for some of the upper level classes and it's fucking atrocious.
In the case of Compilers, it was literally thousands of lines of code shoved into a single file and a handful of functions.

But never once in any of the classes did the professor make you write code on a piece of paper.
All programming was done on your own time, so you could spend 40 hours copying/pasting from Stackoverflow until you had a functioning project.

I sincerely believe that a quiz where you had to write FizzBuzz and reverse an array on a piece of paper would fail ~60% of students.

Is there any way to make fizzbuzz interesting? Maybe fewest characters? Try to make the most performant version? Is there anything else?

is that a slide from a kevlin henney talk?

CS students are smart but they can't hack it in the industry. A mechanical engineer could be a welder but why the fuck would they do that? That's the difference between computer science and programming.

I think he means "the guy" not "invert a binary tree"
There are 2 canonical interview question failures. Invert binary tree guy, and Javascript fizzbuzz girl.
Invert binary tree guy interviewed for google, but couldn't invert a binary tree on a whiteboard. He's the creator of a shitty package manager, so he ranted on twitter about how even though 90% of google uses his software he can't invert a binary tree (CS101) so they told him to fuck off. He later said he agreed, and that homebrew was actually pretty shitty.
Javascript fizzbuzz girl made a long blog post about how she was a javascript dev, but she got blindsided by spooky math when she was asked to do fizzbuzz for an interview (as established, a literal retard accidentally near a keyboard could solve fizzbuzz), and made a fool of herself in front of the entire technology industry. I don't have a follow up, but I hope she never worked with computers again.

ah ok, I remember both the homebrew dude and fizzbuzz lady, I just didn't know it was binary tree inversion is what cost him

I don't know I got it from google images.

>he can't invert a binary tree (CS101)
"invert a binary tree" has no meaning so how can it be cs101? what does it mean -- draw it upside-down? flip it horizontally on a whiteboard? write an insertion algorithm that does the opposite of what you think the original does? swap the branches of every node? min-heapify it and then max-heapify it?

Well every body can do Fizzbuzz now because it is popular and appears on all those “PASS YOUR CODING COMPANY INTERVIEW” programs/websites. Pajeets just spend 2 years memorizing it and then regurgitate it.

I'd change the numbers and use different words like "soda" and "pop" just to filter the people who memorize it. Depending on the language you can do pretty abusive one-liners, functional programming etc. Because it's such a simple algorithm there is a lot of space for self expression and talking shop - another great way to filter out the seat warmers who think drilling other people's leetcode solutions is programming.

Javascript fizzbuzz girl was never a javascript dev. She was a UX designer who mistakenly applied for a frontend engineering role.

Thanks for making me feel better about myself. I'm taking a CS degree and I feel like they're doing a shit job preparing me for an actual industry job, but if I'm competing against people who can't write fizz buzz then I think I've got a chance.

OMG is Jow Forums really just a huge hugbox full of people stroking each other's ego and dicks?
YES we get it, there are people who don't know how to program and yet they get jobs, while you're here suffering.
I've read the same comments years ago during Kloss threads.
I've read the same comments whenever it's a pajeet or 3rd world programmer thread.