Vs Microsoft Windows, a random exe from the mid 90's has a moderate chance run on Windows 10. Where as Linux software from five years ago might be very difficult to run on the latest Ubuntu release. This would be a unheard of complaint for Windows users to complain of Windows breaking software compatibility breaking in 2-5 years.
Some Windows users benefit from using old versions of Microsoft Office and Photoshop for productive purposes. The equivalent in the Linux world is non existent via legacy versions of Libreoffice and Gimp. Businesses, individuals with niche software and developers who study and fork software would benefit if reverse compatibility was optimal in Linux.
The fictional "year of the linux desktop" probably won't happen until the Linux world figures out how to solve this problem with appimage and flatpak. There would have to be a huge community effort to port software from legacy distros into app images.
if you are in enterprise it more than likely works, if not contact support
if you are home user, fork and modernize or run in wine/vm. OR find an alternative for your shitty 5 year old software.
Jose Johnson
/thread
Gavin Wilson
many programs dependant of libboost will usually break after libboost version goes up by 0.01. just a one example.
Hunter Rogers
we might as well acknowledge todays productive software as shitty.
Five years down the road we can use the same software's up to date successor for the same features which will probably be twice as bloated.
Isaac Gonzalez
>he wants to run old software with dozens of CVEs Microsoft Windows also has a reputation for being very very insecure. I wonder why?
Nicholas Rodriguez
Then just bundle it like you would on windows. You should only assume that your target has the linux kernel, libc and some sort of graphics drivers if you are planning to make portable releasess.
Chase Jones
programs that dont connect to the internet or don't connect frequently won't get viruses.
The only reason Linux doesn't get viruses is obscurity.
Cameron James
Posting from my linux machine. How mad are you?
Yes legacy software is a problem and the OS not even being compatible with its latest version. On the bright side there is no niche software on loonix. You either start up Fire fox, chromium, Blender and you want the latest version since the web is the web and blender breaks compatibility with its own files.
in a ironic twist you can get any windows software to run under whatever version of loonix you have because it will run under wine.
And I run software like this.
>old versions of Microsoft Office and Photoshop for productive purposes You realize you can run the WINDOWS version of these programs under wine right?
t. guy who runs flash8, notepad++ and other win software under wine in my loonix.
I think linux need to change its mascot to the joker and its motto to "why so serious?!"
WE can only hope for appimages to save the linux world.
Levi Scott
>The only reason Linux doesn't get viruses is obscurity. This! Every application in linux gets admin privileges after installation the OS has literally no safety in place same with every other OS.
You can try to play technical and say that the application only gets your privileges however its pointless since it can fuck up your shit and delete your files. Deleting system files is irrelevant since OS files can be restored form the mother fucking iso. Like the rest of the base OS.
Fun fact now if you have wine you can have finally compatibility with windows viruses and ransomware, because this is what you craved.
t. actual linux user and not a laprer who larps using linux.
>we haven't invented a cure for stupidity yet Read the next line fag. its irrelevant if the script has only your privileges or the privileges of root it can delete all your files either way. Or what the kids do nowadays be ransomware or spyware to sniff on every other program you run.
Jose Wood
Or you can... You know, update & upgrade ? In linux your software is free
Josiah Phillips
This does not need to be addressed.
The whole point is that GPL v2 gives you the source code for every binary produced so you can adjust your interfaces to work if you actually require it.
>root privileges "no!" it has YOUR privileges and can delete YOUR files, not greg's, not john's, not manager frank's files. that's the catch.
Charles Anderson
And what legacy linux software could you actually need to or want to run?
Hunter Hall
A bookmark manager using XBEL An old liferea version 32bit now that is threatened
Sometimes you just need an old version, but I do like appimage can give me that.
Chase Nguyen
this
Jackson Wilson
I can confirm. I recently fixed a bug in some old software that was caused by gtk subtly changing the behavior of a function. Thankfully most Linux software is open source and easy to build, so you can fix these kind of issues. If it was a bug in some Windows software I wouldn't have bothered, even if it was open source.
Charles Rivera
>Oh boohoo my 20 year old shitware from the windows xp days (which is also full of security vulnerabilities) doesn't want to work on a machine from the last 5 years. Fun fact even windows compatibility is hit or miss and doesn't work properly for a majority of applications.
Xavier Thompson
imho there is more compatibility in any linux distros than in windows
Joshua Hill
You are wrong. On gnu/linux you can keep using the same software pretty much forever and the software will most likely just work on other CPUs. Microsoft tries to fix this with ARM by using an x86 emulator! I remember trying a game from 2004 on windows 10 and i barely got 7 fps with a gtx 1080. Ran it with wine on gnu/linux and it just works fine with no issues.
Isaiah Jones
You can blame everything but the kernel. Linux the kernel isn't the source of compatibility problems for the most part. Now driver blobs, GNU libraries, etc can all cause serious incompatibility problems.
Really though it's not a big issue unless you're depending on current linux for high performing applications that you also want to keep updated. Running old unsupported software really isn't that important in most cases, and in the rare case that it is, you spin up a VM and point the package manager to archives.
Jason Campbell
What I meant to say it "Really though it's not a big issue unless you're depending on current linux to run really old software that no one else uses"
Zachary Gonzalez
Just recompile against the newest library. There's no reason to support deprecated shit just because a single program depends on it. That's why Windows is so big, there's 40 years of DLLs in there, you only use, maybe 5% of it even if you run a lot of old software.
Ok, that's true. But it is irrelevant because you have the source and can build it for the new architecture if required.
Lucas Moore
>imho there is more compatibility issues in any linux distro than in windows Ftfw
Wyatt Gomez
In other words, Linux has never had actually meaningful softwares in the past
Ayden Thompson
>he doesn't keep around a version of GNU Emacs from 1985 just to retain compatibility with some ancient lisp programs
Aaron Jackson
So the only reason you use Linux is to use Windows programs without having the money to pay for its license
Zachary Young
>GPL v2 gives you the source code for every binary produced
>if you are home user, fork and modernize
By that autisitc logic, Microsoft also provides a c compiler free for download and use. So you are free to download that and impement whatever software no longer works in the new versions of Windows.
There's nothing stopping it other than packaging. If you need older libraries, you can just package them with the program. Commercial Linux software often does just this, and shit works across whatever distro/kernel version/whatever.
also, -- the kernel explicitly has a policy of not breaking userspace programs like, if glibc or gtk or whatever does a breaking change or whatever, bitch at them, not to Linus and co
the only reason to run Windows is because it runs whatever programs you need it for and if you can do that on Linux, why the fuck would you buy Windows
I've had an absolute bitch of a time trying to get some old-ass Linux software to compile on a modern machine (hell, on 32-bit x86, because a bunch of this shit will just fucking outright break because it makes assumptions that don't hold true when built for x86-64 or even worse, aarch64). Getting old source to build actually just blows. Easiest thing to do is often to use an old-ass distro in a VM, check what dynamic libs it links with, and copy the binaries off to the new machine (with a small script to point the program to the old libraries).
Jonathan Smith
Honestly, Windows has some of the worst problems with backwards compatibility. Linux's compatibility issues primarily are related to missing packages. But if you had, say, a statically linked application, it would have no issues running on modern Linux, since the OS APIs never changed.
Wyatt Morgan
>why the fuck would you buy Windows Dude, who the hell pays for Windows?
Henry Reed
Yes and if you are a home user and the only one on the computer... Aw shit looks like its a crappy mainframer "security feature" that is 300% irrelevant for modern non server computers.
This is why I was hyperbolic you idiot. For a home user there is no difference if the dam thing gets your privileges or root privileges since it will delete your files and only you have your files on the PC.
To cast pearls at swine like you, you can think that its possible to use unixes meme security by having cluster of programs be isolated and act as their own "users". Then you get to real security its named operating system virtualization(google this) and BSD jails is one implementation of it.
Meaning that if you install some shitty program it can only access its own configuration files and delete itself and is incapable of touching your files.
Keep on memeing crap that is from the 1960s mainframes and was irrelevant in the 1990s. Idiots like you are the reason no one is implementing any security(operating system virtualization) on linux.
>appimage can give me that. What is a good place to get appimages? I know that kdnlive provides its software from its website in appimages. Where is a good website to download appimages of stuff like blender etc?
Anthony Richardson
>I remember trying a game from 2004 Where you using a AMD processor? Yes because you need that single core performance for old gamed so if you don't have Intel you are kind of fucked.
Jack Scott
>So the only reason you use Linux I pay for loonix (donations) the reason why I like loonix (linux is the kernel loonix is the os) is that the OS is not fucked spyware central that enslaves me (forced updates) and I'm not vendor locked (can hop dystros).
>to use Windows programs Fire Fox is a windows program? I use it without wine.
Chromium is an windows program? I use it without wine.
Blenders is an windows program? I use it without wine.
Krita is an windows program? I use it without wine.
KDNlive is an windows program? I use it without wine.
GIMP is an windows program? I use it without wine.
The loonix people need to get their act together and have some compatibility and normal installers.
There are win software that are really nice and have no equivalent on loonix even if them other fucking program is GPL itself.
locate 32 is a great tool only not on loonix so I need to use wine.
Corporate shit like flash8 is good so I keep using it.
Jacob Johnson
unlike in the windows world, everything is foss, so anything worth using is maintained by somebody old software isn't an issue, but for a different reason: there's no need to run old binaries in the first place
Luis Robinson
Just recompile the software and it will work perfectly. What's that? You don't have the source? Then you have nobody but yourself to blame for your poor choices.
Leo Walker
>Software from 5 years ago on a OS that constantly gets updates from the community
Wyatt Ross
>Linux fails entirely on legacy software compat I'm sure. That's why versions of grep written in the 70's not only compile, but run on any modern Linux distro. Meanwhile, half of your bloated GUI shit from XP (just over, say, 13 years ago), falls flat on it's face. >mid 90's software has a moderate chance to run on Windows 10 no, it doesn't. M$ removed 16-bit support since even they realise that degree of backwards compat is autism. However, rather than removing, they should have just relegated it to an emulated environment (v8086 mode and DOS' APIs are child's play anyway). >some users would benefit from old versions of Office and Photoshop The only people I know using old versions of Photoshop, are those willing to pirate CS6 since cloud based subscriptions are a whole different type of cancer. As for people on old versions of Office, it's mainly because Office itself isn't fully cross-compatible across versions with differing filetypes and radically changed interfaces. This is a problem with Office itself, a bloated GUI suite, and has nothing to do with the actual operating system.
Ummm... Compile much? Where do you get your source code?
Cooper Hughes
Lookup when most of the programs on linux you run were created. >cat released in 1980 >ls in 1997
Oliver Brown
>libraries never break backwards compatibility
Angel Gutierrez
>muh CLI only grow up. >However, rather than removing, they should have just relegated it to an emulated environment (v8086 mode and DOS' APIs are child's play anyway). Yes MS is retarded they should provide infinite backwards compatibility because they own their old OSes only they do not.
And the fact remains that repos are slavery because old version of linux are basically bricked and will be unable(install new software) (arch ISO is basically bricked because you will be unable to use it while ubuntu ISO has some build in software) to work if the repo is turned of.
Julian Sullivan
I wish I would've stopped reading this thread after watching the video.
Jose Torres
>Where as Linux software from five years ago might be very difficult to run on the latest Ubuntu release. Just compile it from source.
Brandon Lee
97 wont work in Windows 7 so I doubt it works in 8 or 10
It does work fine in Windos XP
Havent tested on Vista
Samuel White
May as well write it from scrath at this point.
Adam Thompson
>muh console utilities that are part of the os
Noah Mitchell
ITT to linux user: DILATE.
Kayden Robinson
didnt watch your shitty video but flatpak fixes that
Julian Smith
>wanting to run ancient software based on ancient libaries It's a huge security risk. Update your shit.
Nicholas Murphy
If you run a program on windows with your privileges it can also delete all your files. Your point is irrelevant
William Martin
Actual retard
John Wilson
The only reason 16-bit compatibility was dropped in 64-bit versions of Windows is that you have no v8086 mode inside long mode. Not an epiphany and realisation that supporting old software is autistic.
Jordan Mitchell
>If you run a program on windows with your privileges it can also delete all your files. I know this! >If you run a program on windows with your privileges it can also delete all your files. Yes and???????
What is your point? Computers are shit so lets never improve? Like for real?
you memeing with >linux can not get viruses >linux is build with security in mind!
Is total bullshit.
There is a security framework named "operating system virtualization" and getting the meme lords who make linux to implement it is important.
Can you be part of the solution here? Practically all OS suck and are the same giving your own privileges to every crapware you run. On a PC you can equally well(on PC) give it root privileges and run as administrator at this point.
Show that anything I have written is wrong.
Ian Edwards
>v8086 Meanwhile dos box can magic this compatibility. Why is MS so retarded?
v8086 mode is a submode of protected mode which _virtualises_ an old 8086. Dosbox just emulates a CPU. Big difference.
Cameron Cooper
I agree. Linux distros aren't any more secure than Windows or any other OS for that matter as long as they let any program you run touch your files and connect to the internet.
People bitch about not giving programs root access, yet a program without root access you run is perfectly capable of scavenging your whole home directory and upload all the files to a server without you even knowing about it.
On the other hand giving root access will just allow the program to uh... delete libraries?
Owen Richardson
>The only reason Linux doesn't get viruses is obscurity.
>All 500 of the fastest supercomputers in the world run on Linux. >The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is the single largest installed base for Red Hat Linux" >The US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs on Linux, including their sonar systems. >US Federal Aviation Administration migrated to Red Hat Enterprise Linux in one third of the scheduled time and about US$15 million under budget. The switch saved a further US$15 million in datacenter operating costs. >The US National Nuclear Security Administration operates the world's tenth fastest supercomputer, the IBM Roadrunner, which uses Red Hat Enterprise Linux along with Fedora as its operating systems. >Over 75% of all mobile devices run Android (Linux kernel). >Amazon.com uses Linux "in nearly every corner of its business". >Google uses Linux for both its internet-facing servers and internal workstations. >IBM uses Linux on both desktops and servers internally. >Wikipedia servers run on Linux. >DreamWorks Animation switched to Linux in 2001. >The Chicago Mercantile Exchange employs an all-Linux computing infrastructure and has used it to process over a quadrillion dollars worth of financial transactions (All the money in the world 16 times over) >The London Stock Exchange uses the Linux-based MillenniumIT Millennium Exchange software for its trading platform. >The New York Stock Exchange uses Linux to run its trading applications. >Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang uses Ubuntu Linux >NASA decided to switch the International Space Station laptops running Windows XP to Linux. >Both CERN and Fermilab use Scientific Linux in all their work; this includes running the Large Hadron Collider or the Dark Energy Camera or the 20,000 internal servers of CERN. >The Internet Archive uses hundreds of x86 servers to catalogue the Internet, all of them running Linux.
lol because updating old software (considering that you have access to source code) to be conformant with all underlying changes is easy pz and is not a time-consuming project.
Charles Cooper
It's OK if you don't have any actual skills and can't do it yourself. You can pay a programmer to do it for you.
no thanks, I woud rather have my OS have backwards compatibility to easily run 20+ year old programs rather than wasting my time or money because it shits itself as glibc version changed.
Ayden Bell
well, what are you waiting for? feel free to address it. no? thought so, so kindly shut the fuck up. you get shit for free and all you do is bitch and moan. how about you come up with something for once in your sorry life?
Charles Moore
>People bitch about not giving programs root access, yet a program without root access you run is perfectly capable of scavenging your whole home directory and upload all the files to a server without you even knowing about it.
>On the other hand giving root access will just allow the program to uh... delete libraries? Exactly and system files are practically worthless since you can restore them from the ISO.
>On the other hand giving root access will just allow the program to uh... delete libraries? Not that there are ways around it because there are. However theoretically the malware can not fuck up more system parts this way.
However you are overthinking what essentially is a stupid security made for mainframes where you only get programs your corporate overlords give you (no sudo or root for you pleb) and that makes sysadmins and manager penises hard.
The fucken thing is only useful if you have a mainframe/server with hundreds of users so 1 slave not-root user will not take out the entire system.Its absolutely worthless for personal computers and the model is flawed because the user essentially run everything on max privileges and can get his files fucked.
There is the solution of "operating system virtualization" where every program can be isolated like in its own home directory and be its own user and interact only in given ways with you and your files and the system resources are trivially minimal for this.
When I see retarded crap like making a OS where every program runs in its own VM I cringe. More people need to know about this.
Imagine being so retarded: >fastest supercomputers in the world >US National Nuclear Security Administration >NASA
most used =/= secure. And are you seriously posting super corporate and super military environments? If you are talking the military they can run TempleOS where everything is in ring zero and everything has root privileges. You know why? Because if the drones try to install anything on the computer they get court martialed for treason! What part of: >a stupid security made for mainframes where you only get programs your corporate overlords give you (no sudo or root for you pleb) and that makes sysadmins and manager penises hard. Don't you understand?
The entire "security" of the fucken thing is not more then you can not run any programs only the crap we give you. its basically pre approved software from your overlords corporate or military.
You know what real security looks like? You can run any script and program and the worst thing it can do is delete itself or be a cunt and play loud music and flashing lights or eat up RAM and processor power for no reason whatsoever. It will never get access to the files you don't grant it access and you can give it only read only access so the music player will NEVER delete your file. Look into BSD jails, look into operating system level virtualization".
This is the utopia you can have, today instead of the retardation of blindly trust this file will not fuck up your system or don't run it. Every file can be run this way, every script and all is safe. Its like VMs only more integrated in the actual OS and more stream lined and taking practically no resources whatsoever. Can you imagine this world?
>I'm a linux fanboy What a surprise. You know most of us run linux with its outdated and stupid unix """"security"""" not because its magically more secure (practically no modern OS is) its for the GPL and the source access and not being a literal slave to modern OSs. We can run crap like reactOS or shit like TempleOS that runs everything in ring zero because we are interested in the GPL(linux is better then these shit systems in the security department).
However we can dream of improving the OS to not run every shit in ring zero while acknowledging the problems we know the security model of unix has.
However then there is you the linux fanboy spreading lies.
Agreed. Basically what mobile OSes do. Just have each program run in a container, and if it needs to access files, camera, internet, and so on, it prompts the user for permission, and the user is free to grant or deny.
UNIX (thereby Linux) isn't any more secure than Windows by design for a normal desktop user.
Elijah Gonzalez
sandboxing is not the only way to do security, you can do that on gnu/linux but most distros don't do it by default because it is highly impractical look into qubes os if you want to know more about this btw the security model used by phone apps is actually bad, android uses the linux kernel, but despite this it happens to be loaded with viruses and malware
Christopher Watson
AFAIK qubes does full virtualisation rather than sendboxing. Explain how sandboxing would be impractical.
Android gets viruses because normies install apps from sketchy sites and give them all permissions without thinking. A user problem. Not trying to defend Android even.
Jonathan Myers
>it prompts the user for permission, and the user is free to grant or deny In my model the permissions are created before this and the program can go fuck itself with its nagging(I hate it and users can accidentally click a pop up). And internet access, microphone, or sound output are controlled by the OS itself.
Not to mention things like fork bombs are isolated to the program meaning it only can fork bomb itself (basically it has its own bucket and once it exhorts its PIDs its fucked only itself over).
>Agreed. Thanks man. We can dream of improving security and getting the developers to focus time on this. Getting the word out is important and remember to stop lies/brain-damage from linux fanboys about the OS.
Daniel Harris
People ITT actually caring about security I can't believe it.
Androids vulnerabilities mostly come from the media framework, check out the security bulletins. "Viruses" are a possible endpoint from vulnerabilities or user action.
Dominic Gomez
KILL ALL NIGGERS
Blake Young
>Linux fails entirely on reverse/legacy software compatibility. Compatibility with old binaries isn't really a concern on most systems running Linux. Not much gets distributed as binaries, and the job of making source code into something that "just works" generally falls onto distro maintainers rather than users. Formats like Flatpak and AppImage theoretically make backwards compatibility easier by bundling in dependencies, but I've not heard of anyone using them for that.
Christian Bennett
>open text editor >please enter your password in order to open gayporn.txt >change one line >please enter your password in order to save gayporn.txt
normies don't care, they will just click past that shit, this is why windows vista was hated
that already exists, look into selinux and apparmor, but those things are not used by most ordinary users because it's a pain in the ass to manage all those permissions properly
Landon Russell
>Windows has some of the worst problems with backwards compatibility Works on my machine. On the other hand, Linux programs always require you to compile the program yourself, and it rarely works on old projects.
Luke Russell
yes, but it's too late. appimage didn't become a thing till 2016. It's still not a standard.
95% of all linux software that ever existed is probably incapable of running on modern distros.
Evan Parker
>it is highly impractical Normally I separate things like 1) OS bucket basically all your little CLI programs 2) Buckets created by the user.
You are only interested in the buckets you create and OS updates are thrown into the OS bucket where grep and ls are not separated from one another.
How many buckets will you start as a normal user? Since you will keep only big GUI applications separate.
1 Web browser 2 music player 3 text editor 4 image viewer 5 libreoffice 6 torrenting program 7 CBZ viewer 8 PDF viewer 9 ZIP archive opener/manager 10 some shitty program you need to try out
The idea is for the shitty unknown program to not fuck up your system.
>sandboxing I don't know if OSLV is the same since it basically will look like the OS has another user for libreoffice who can communicate with the OS and you only in pre determined ways and APIs its not a VM or some retarded shit. If linux servers can handle 100s of users at the same time they can handle 100s of buckets.
>btw the security model used by phone apps is actually bad, android uses the linux kernel, but despite this it happens to be loaded with viruses and malware This is another subject if the OS is infected with spyware from the manufacturer you are fucked. By bucket security model is for you to run any program and not worry that it will delete your files or be ransomware. However the OS needs to be clean from the start. >the linux kernel Will not magically prevent things from being malware.
David Ross
Aha the retarded way to do things.
How its made the CORRECT way. If you drag a file to a application it gets instant write privileges ONLY to this file.
Default associations work the same way. If you double click the application gets right privileges to this 1 file only.
>why windows vista was hated And this is why input your root password to continue on linux is bad.
>please enter your password This is retarded. Like why? All you want is manage accesses not retype your mother fucking password like you are in unix. You are the boss and can do it the same way you don't need to retype your password if you change something in the VM, for example cutting of the internet connection of the VM.
>look into selinux and apparmor, Thanks I take a look, I bet they are implemented in a retarded way.
Chase Reyes
Where is a good place to get app images for lots of software?
Owen Cooper
You know damn well sometimes the only way to do specific things is a shitty piece of old software
Carson Clark
>apparmor Aha I have seen it apparently its the classic CLI bullshit of Lets type in commands for 5 minutes.
What stupidity. My way is to simply have a folder structure like this bucket/program/ the bucket/ has configuration files that start in a nice GUI if you want.
Simply throw your scripts into the program/ folder and have a default profile (practically all actions outside of the program/ are banned and accessing the bucket/ directory is super banned for the contents of program/). Some management software knows how to start a bucket in the right way.
Nice and easy and portable. its like getting a VM image only without the resource wasting bullshit.
Starting buckets should be as easy as playing music files.
This thing is made for big programs(games, office programs or more like some deviant art downloader software etc) not little crap like ping.
I started my adventure with linux and can think of a handful of examples. Can you give me examples of linux software where this is relevant (linux has little software)?
On windows on the other hand oh boy the stories I can tell you.
