Honestly, what the fuck is the point of tests?

What tests? Testing your new code is essential for obvious reasons, I hope that's not what you're calling useless. Automated tests are indeed a tedious chore to write, but they do have their practical uses. Imagine you're working on an application with a large code base and you make some large change to it, this could mean code or even something like updating a crucial library which leaves the code itself intact and is as trivial as changing a dependency version number.

How do you validate that your application still works correctly and you have not introduced a new bug? How do you evaluate every use case and every scenario the application could be used under? Do you do it by hand? That could take multiple days of work for every change you make. It would be a huge waste of time. What if you just change a library version which takes less than a minute, but then have to spend literal days testing the application? Automated tests will do this shit for you, so you can work with at least a reasonable level of confidence that the changes you are making are not in fact breaking different parts of the application.

Maybe you don't need tests if you're working on some fart app, but any application which has to be stable and reliable will basically need them in order to ensure that changes can be made without requiring ridiculous time investments in manual testing.

warosu.org/g/thread/S63431597

tests are only really useful for bigger projects where one change could fuck up the entire system. the people who interviewed you probably thought you were lying about your experience when you said that you don't see a point in testing. not sure if you've heard of this but in agile developers shit out code, testers tell what's wrong and developers fix those issues and the cycle continues. if you plan everything then maybe you don't need tests but they certainly don't hurt if you value quality of your software.

Why don't you think tests are important? How do you guarantee program behavior? How do you guarantee that changes don't negatively modify existing behavior?

>$20/hour
do you live in a third world country? kek

The perks of testing were already pointed out above, but I would add one thing about unit tests : they help you improve the overall quality of your code.
When you write unit tests for your code, you often find yourself refactoring it a lot but in a good way, removing all clumsy stuff and making it more concise and elegant.

Not everyone lives in a shithole like murriga where you need $100/hr just for the bare essentials

Tests are nice but yeah i see people waste 50% of their time on tests and rarely i see them save us any time or find bugs. Usually the testa break and you just have to fix them

that's fantastic so if you're working freelance why aren't you taking advantage of remote work

$20/hour isn't even what an american company would pay to cut costs on outsourcing to pajeets

i used to work for $2/h

Tests are useful when dealing with math.
A single mistake can fuck up everything.

doing what and where?
how much are your prostitutes?

so you cannot prove that your code really works as intended?
kek

Testing is supposed to help you find stupid bugs when you have a brainfart or e.g. two modules you glue together and didn't realise they might not play nicely.
It doesnt make you good at your job it just stops you embarassing yourself submitting absolute shit that could be easily fixed.

If you dont understand or cant write a fucking test then maybe you should ask for a transfer and go mop the floors or something, dry not to get too much drool in the wash bucket though.

Who said you didn't need to test if you plan? I can be bothered finding it to reply. Testing is part of the planning, you lay out your modules, define what they should do, write tests to prove they work as you planned them to then you write the module itself.

Get fucked if you say you dont test, so you write function after function, whole program, then run it at the end and it compiles and works as expected and you never even consider putting some value into it that you know what the output should be just to see if it works?
That's testing you mongoloid, automated testing is just a more formal way to encourage you to think about edge cases and shit. Fucking hell.

Also especially if you work in a team its fucking great because when some cunt tells you oh your module isn't working as expected you can just say 1)fuck off 2)give me a test case where it fails. Simples. Testing is probably actually the most interesting part of programming as part of the design. Any monkey can slip together some shit soup code. As long as it passes test lol who cares. If it doesnt you can rake them over the fucking coals.

This guy must be fun at office parties

> Testing is probably actually the most interesting part of programming as part of the design. Any monkey can slip together some shit soup code.

My nigguh ! My colleagues think I'm joking when I tell them that writing the unit test is the funniest part of my dev

>make almost $20/hour but i want some stability so im trying to become a wagie.
Is this a normal rate to the companies you work for? I know some freelancers and none of them work for less than $100 per hour. Some of them charge daily rates only, no matter the amount of work as well. It seems to me you're charging way too little.

not him but i made slightly less than $30/hr. i do live in a third world shithole, so since cost of living is low it's decent money.
where should i be looking for remote jobs that will pay decently? mid-level webslave here

>coder with years experience adamant about testing being pointless
>coder gets paid abysmally
>coder can't get a job at a real company

Hmmmmmm...

>freelance
means you can't get anything done

>$20/hr
kill yourself

there is nothing wrong with simple tests like fizzbuzz there is a lot wrong with snowflake employers who never hire anyone because 1 or 2 lines of code is not exactly how they would do it

The proper way to do this is to beat them to the punch and have a github with code or a secret non-public portfolio site with code on it

You do realize the NEET life means you're living off the backs of the people who do work, right? If everyone lived like you do, we wouldn't have people making the food we eat, the products we need and want, the services we enjoy, and we wouldn't really have an economy. The whole nation would collapse.
Now, there's something to be said for the benefits of entrepreneurship or self-employment as opposed to traditional work under a heirarchy, but being a freeloading sack of shit is disgraceful.

the entire system of capitalism revolves around exploiting other's labor

dilate
this. If you can, always remember to write unit tests to ensure that your software is doing what it's supposed to do.

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fuck tests
fuck version control
fuck staging

this is how digital cowboys roll

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the whole point of basic unit testing and mock testing is to be an informal spec that you can do refactors against.

you're a retard op.

>Testing is probably actually the most interesting part of programming as part of the design.
Absolutely this. It also makes you so more much efficient since your tests can also basically be save points.

god you're all such complete fucking idiots. testing is absolutely worthless.

t. Pajeet

please respond anons ;-;

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please go die animetard

>because i'm honest
Companies by default are dishonest. They do not want an outsider like you joining them. That's like a bunch of potheads letting some straight edge hang around with them all the time.

>ive been freelancing for 6 years
>i make almost $20/hour
Holy fuck, dude, are you serious? Do you live in India? My first freelance gig like two years ago was $50/hr. You're doing it wrong.

The point of an interview is to see how well you can bs your interviewer. Everyone knows that interview questions aren't worth a damn, but they are there to, among other reasons, weed out smart asses like you who dare to question the system and not be a good little subservient wage cucks. What I'm saying here is, yes, lie if you want the job.

how do you do it right

Is a rate between $70/hr and $100/hr realistic? What can be expected?

I'm not your personal business consultant. Figure it out. However, start by charging appropriately. $20/hr./6 years experience tells us you're either absolutely shit, or you live in a dirt poor country.

>Is a rate between $70/hr and $100/hr realistic?
Absolutely. Though it depends on the hours/project. When you hear a freelancer making $100/hr, this typically isn't a year long job, but a few days, or a few hours of work. It's not what they're making 24/7. Though it is possible, and even likely that some freelancers are managing 40 hours a week at $100/hr.

You gotta find the right agencies, and reach out to them. Forget upwork, freelancer, etc. Go straight to the source. It's hard work, honestly.

You're completely right, unit tests are so management sees green ticks over the code. Formal verification is required to prove any sort of correctness which takes time.

>unit tests are so management sees green ticks over the code.
t. jobless NEET

BASED
youtube.com/watch?v=zBVggGXGxxc

>2017
WHERE THE FUCK HAS TIME GONE?

Tests are necessary for tools like Greenkeeper or Dependabot to work correctly.
Also, runtime upgrades.
You're a developer I wouldn't want to work with.

gj faggot this is already on rdedededit

Cool, please go back and don't post here again, thank you

>doesn't know wtf we're talking about

120+ is realistic

Wanna know how I know you post of Jow Forumscuteanimals?

Lmao I was really confused by this post, I get it now, what a goofball

Funniest or funnest?

Yeah, and sometimes you're forced to refactor everything into a pile of worthless interfaces just so you can mock enough things to finally prove that true = true. Fuck unit tests.

Which means it was a terrible code, and how do you know you didn't fuck it up without tests?

Tests has multiple uses. One you could answer with since you're probably is going to work in a team would be, scalability. Lets say you've written a function, it's not the most optimized code but it just werks, and you write tests for every use case. Now if someone else comes and wants to optimize your code, if he runs the tests after making some changes and they fail then he will know he's fucked up and to not commit some broken code to your project.

GL with your interviews, user.

T. clueless neet

Tests are good for catching regressions.
I also don't see tests as evidence that some code is "correct".

Time sure flies when you're not having fun.

fucking based

I was literally hired to making unit and regression tests.
The developers need their time to actually write good code.

I also never do any automated tests at all and I too think that this is a waste of time. Programming something new and then trying if the program works is completely ok, but running automated tests means you have to setup this shit too for everything you program. Your whole program needs to adapt to the testenvironment and not the other way around and this is just pointless for me. Been doing this for like 14 years now at work.
Fuck that one worst bait today. If OP talks about testing we all know it is about automated tests you autistic sperglord.

When you work on trivial stuff (what freelanchers work on) tests have little use.
When you start working on real stuff tests help you:
Werify functionality of your code.
Werify new changes did not break old functionality.
Document use and functionality(in big code base best place to learn how things are done is tests).
After writting test case proving bug was fixed you can be sure bug will not be re introduced.
Etc.

I bet you also don't see point of short methods and encapsulation.

Have to diaagree here. Sometimes to test you have to break incapsulation and expose what should not be exposed. This has two arguing sides - the ones who are pro tests and say "break design and expose" and those pro design who say "deaign over tests". In this case refactoring to write tests actually makes your code more shit, but guarantees it works as intended.

>in agile

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Imagine becoming the very thing you mock

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If everyone chose the NEET life over running at Mr. Shekelstein's every beck and call, eventually things would get to the point where NEETs would have to work to support themselves, but Mr. Shekelstein would too. If you compare the amount that NEETs leech off of you to the amount that your Jewish overlords leech off of you, you'll realize that it's silly to complain about the one while actively working to enrich the other.

Should be *
>Wocument
>Wafter
>Wetc

>should i lie in interviews?
duh

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everyone uses agile these days, buddy. with that attitude you ain't getting a job.

Corporations don't fucking know shit.Tests are an industry wide meme, but they are useful in the sense that if jamal fucks something up, he has to fix is.
So it's like an internal policing tool and it does in fact save money, even though jamal should've been filtered out at the HR level.

Okay? I don't want a pozzed as fuck code monkey job

Stating it that way makes you sound like you might be a dumbass that would delete good tests, or convince others to avoid writing tests. I'd be worried about someone saying this near my or my work's codebases.

If you're writing a program that exercises every code path every time it runs, then there probably isn't much point in testing, because after every change, you can just run the program and see that everything works pretty quickly. But when you work on programs that have many code paths that are hard to test all of them in a reasonable amount of time (assuming you remember all of them), then tests start becoming really handy. Imagine if you're maintaining a program and found a bug in the code of a part of the program that you barely knew how to trigger, or took a lot of work to trigger (like the code only gets triggered for files with 100+ pages, or is shared to a specific type of team, or when the file is printed on a type of printer you don't have, etc). If the code you're changing has a test, then you can sanity check that your change works just by using the test.

Yeah. The best thing about writing tests is that most mistakes you make in them will be instantly detected (by the test itself). If you're ever going to code while drunk or high, code tests. That way even the worst mistake is safely in test code out of the product.

good

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you are an idiot. test your code you faggot. glad you are not getting hired. tired of cleaning up after incompetent cunts like you.

your company is shit. developers should test their own code.

>if i make a shitty C script, i don't need tests
>what do you mean actually serious development needs thorough testing, are you a fag. In the time we need to create a stable product, i could another shitty script

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Lmao, how do you garantee your tests are even complete?
Might as well just start from scratch and waste time proving your code instead of wasting time writing incomplete tests.
But I guess writing tests is an easier job for a JS corporate monkey.

You're dumb nigger if you don't see the value of tests after 6 years. Just be a neet and stop writing bad software. You give software engineers a bad name.

>lmao just write code without errors bro

I assume you mean writing tests instead of testing manually? then the answer is that in large projects you only write a part of the code and when you or somebody else makes a change it's to make sure things dont break, as most devs in the project wont know exactly everything about the product code. Also it's an easy way to reproduce a scenario, which helps when somebody wants to work on fixing a bug and they can use tests as a reference.

‘web’ “development”

I see the value of tests but I suck at writing them. It doesn't help that all testing tutorials vs real life are like pic related.

t. c/c++/python/php programmer with 15 years of experience who can't into testing

Forgot pic.

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Anime website.

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do some kind of jobs in companies exist, that just test the code and tell the main devs that what tests failed/passed so that they can refactor the program?

It's called QA.

Are you talking about unit tests?

If you have a function that sorts a list, create a test function for it, send it an array of data you come up with and then just make sure the result is what you expect!

Assert_Equal( mySort([5, 8, 2]), [2, 5, 8])

Then add weird cases, like negatives, duplicate values, yada yada

Do this for all functions it makes sense for. Read the rest of the thread about the problems that might occur like having to break up design to get smaller functions. You can test, etc

>php
sasuga.

it means you were doing freelancing jobs for trivial programs