Why is learning to code so hard? There's 1,000...

again python will get your shit done

what if my inconveniences are with 3D raytracing performance?

While it has it's use, there are a lot of stuff that can be done better in other languages.
And OP want to learn how to program. Python will give you the wrong habits and learning another language will be more difficult than if you learned a normal procedural language first.

One thing I truly hate about learning programming is how basic stuff is very easy but actually writing something worth putting on your github seems impossible.
Somewhere between doing the 'write a function which returns the sum of two numbers given as a parameters' exercises and writing complete Java/Spring/Sql/Html5/CSS3/some-JS-framework webapps there is some middle ground. But I am too much of a brainlet to find it. And it's humbling and discouraging.

but still infinitely better than the use C / use C++ advice

no it's not. those programs don't hold your hand, which is important for learning how to develop software on your own. python is meant for someone who already has an understanding and wants to take memory handling shortcuts and have full awareness of the drawbacks. it's not something you should learn first if you're trying to program because you're just gonna have to unlearn all that if you ever want to make a large scale application, or work on one.

programming isnt actually that hard, you are just a brainlet, op

>use C++
Not better, but not worse either because starting with OOP languages actually give you bad habits too
>use C
Not at all, C is a high-level procedural language that will allow you to understand the basics of alorithms, as well as the logic that is behind pointers, memory allocations. Most people who learn with python don't have a clue of what's a fucking variable type.

>think about your problem
>model your domain, your data structures and types
>code writes itself, synthesize whatever syntax your retarded colleagues prefer

wow, that was hard

C's manual memory management is useless busywork for many use-cases, and just serves as an unnecessary landmine for people (beginners and experts) to trip on. Using it while learning is just handicapping yourself when things are hardest. Yes, some people come out of that pretty well, but that's a selection bias. Plenty of good people get filtered out by that on top of everything else early on.

it is hard, because you are coming from the angle to put stuff on github. You need a well defined problem to solve, not the other way around.

Let me help you:

>Learning to code
Is not hard. Install some language, google „[language] tutorial“ and make a command line calculator. Here you go, you just learned to code.

>Being a good coder
Means you are halfway decent in many different and very good in one or two things. For examlpe: If you are a web guy you should know some different web frameworks, whereas RFC and DB knowledge would be great, bur nobody expects you to know PyTorch or explain the difference between „Djikstra“ and „Bellman-Ford“. If you are a Data analytics guy nobody expects you to know Metasploit. If you are a SysOp noboy cares if you can programm in Scala or not. If you do „Embedded Systems“ you don‘t have to be know SQL Server..
IT is a HUGE area and you shouldn‘t even bother about all the stuff that‘s out there. You should get some basic knowledge about a many areas and be good in one or two.

>What skills do I need
Your endgame should be to know a lot about some niche. This means programming languages, but more important the state-of-the-art frameworks and libraries.

you are a damn retard, another one of hundreds of brainlets on this board, one doesnt learn asm, c or even c++ as first language unless he is going into highly specific, niche, embedded or microprocessor programming and design fields. If one just wants to be software developer then learn simple high level language to understand basic programming then learn some lower level language to get more in depth and go for c if very low level memory management and execution speed/efficiency are that critical.

Learning to estimate time for coding is harder

There's only one language, programming. The rest is meaningless trivia that anyone competent can pick up in an afternoon. There's only a few general themes as well, the various flavors of asm for the different processors, which include joke languages like brainfuck, imperatives that cover everything from c/JavaScript to python/rust, declaratives/functionals like lisp, clojure or sql. Then the more esoteric dsls or research langs like apl that you use for specific reasons or just to show off.

That's just prejudice!

c and asm is the first language they tech in uni here oof

true for the unit code monkey, but who cares about their miserable existence? If you have half a brain and enrolled in a formal education you should know everything from the IC manufacturing process up to distributed systems and ''''state of the art""" (lol) AI/ML
>muh full stack
these guys don't even know what a semiconductor is

To elaborate further:

Learn one programming language every year.

Eventually you want 5 languages where you can actually be good in and half a dozen things you COULD program in, if you had to.
If you are good with Ruby you can pick up Python, Perl, Lua or VBA (ewww) in no time.
And someone with 5 years Java work experience will be a better C# coder than someone with a year C# practice.

There are only so many ways to design a language.

Eventually you want one scripting language, one major OOP language, one funtional language, SQL and of course knowledge about HTML/CSS/JS.
Thats what I would consider the absolute basics if someone calls himself „coder“.

But don‘t worry too much, the more you know the easier it gets to pick up new staff. It doesn‘t matter at all where you start.

next level: realizing you don't play to estimate game to be precise, but to have as much slack time as possible.

again, it's better to just learn C or C++ first because you learn everything a high level language would offer and more. it's a superset in terms of what you can do, so why limit yourself from the get go? if your goal is just to make simple scripts then sure, but that's not necessarily the case. if you think learning the basics of programming before delving into higher level programming is niche, you're naive and unaware of the confusion going from high to low can cause.

(You)

>C's manual memory management is useless busywork
In the case of OP it'll allow him to learn how memory actually works by handling addresses with pointers.
>Using it while learning is just handicapping yourself when things are hardest.
It's not handicapping yourself when it's something that is among the basics . Also most of the time people are exaggerating the problems that might be caused by the use of pointers.
>Plenty of good people get filtered out by that
If they're filtered by something that trivial that means they're no good to begin with.
>one doesnt learn asm, c or even c++ as first language unless he is going into highly specific, niche, embedded or microprocessor programming and design fields
Not him but before calling someone a retard try not lumping 3 languages with different paradigm together you fucking brainlet. No one was talking about assembly language, that's a low-level language that is only used in niche nowadays (tho it can still be useful when you want to learn how a computer REALLY works, not just algorithmic languages). C is pretty much the simplest high-level, procedural language still in use nowadays that has all the basics you need to know about a high-level language. Pascal used to hold that title, but now pascal is DEAD.
C++ is usually lumped together with C because it adds a few features and the use of class and the likes isn't enforced, but learning OOP first is bad.

Are you out of your fuckin mind ?

>waaah this problem is too hard
You don't want to learn programming, you just wish you innately knew how to do it. Either wake the fuck up and start working or forget about it entirely, but stop complaining.

>c and asm is the first language they tech in uni here oof
I am so sorry, user. I started programming in middle school, first with logo, then pascal

you did not make your homework

except that's not possible without actually knowing how it all works. that's literally the problem.

>hasnt downloaded racket and gone through SICP
lole

>these guys don't even know what a semiconductor is

And semiconductor guys are probably not familiar with routing protocols, the difference between React Flux vs. Redux and the trade-offs between Oracle DB, Redis and Mongo DB..

Just forget about it. At this point it‘s impossible to know IT as a whole.

>In the case of OP it'll allow him to learn how memory actually works by handling addresses with pointers.

Unless you are a kernel dev or you are doing close to the metal graphics or whatever, that really doesn't apply to most programming in 2019, when you have gigabytes of memory available and your program uses maybe a meg.

Why don't you emphasize how important each cycle is, and how C or asm saves cycles, if you're going to give advice from 1985.

>again, it's better to just learn C or C++ first because you learn everything a high level language would offer and more.
do you even know what learning means? did you go to school and started learning calculus on your first day? did you study the operation and specifics of modern internal combustion engine, transmission operation, the electrical systems of the car when learning how to drive?

>No one was talking about assembly language, that's a low-level language that is only used in niche nowadays (tho it can still be useful when you want to learn how a computer REALLY works, not just algorithmic languages). C is pretty much the simplest high-level, procedural language still in use nowadays that has all the basics you need to know about a high-level language. Pascal used to hold that title, but now pascal is DEAD.
then we should talk about assembly language because it offers much more control than C, you a fucking brainlet if you chose C over assembly.

I did and I hate python
Not saying that it isn't useful or what not,but it's simply garbage,I don't like it

gigabytes of memory is nowhere near enough. if you don't optimize you can easily fill that up with a simple scene file in a 3d package. tons of work goes into stuff like that. same applies for digital audio workstations where sample libraries are offloaded into memory, and called rapidly thousands of times per second. it's really important to get a sense of optimizing otherwise these environments would just feel like a pain in the ass to work in.

conflicted, I'm happy I did not spend more time in front of a computer in my teens

cope, in fact your example is pretty stupid, no one cares about yet another bunch of JS, that will be forgotten in a few years time, that is not fundamental to IT. See? You are pretty stupid

I've programmed in basically everything I've come across, I picked up lisp because I wanted to fix a bug in a now dead window manager, got the patch upstream then promptly forgot it. Ive coded in dos-based mouse driver macro languages, for every os but old macs, way too much c, some cobol because it was something to do, way too much c/c++, php because everyone is young and stupid once, python because there's fuckall else for webshit, for more shitty microcontrollers than I can keep track of, raw postscript, tex, every meme/fad like swift go rust
Various game specific shit like mudlib or Lua. Never enough functional for various reasons.
You either can or you can't. It should just click and you could open code red/black trees with your eyes closed or throw together a lexer to an ast to read a trivial scripting Lang in an afternoon because you needed something specific to your project.
Not going to dox myself but I've got my name in a bunch of source trees long before git itself existed.
It's not some sort of matrix bullshit where you can see code, its just that everything is all the same since Ada Lovelace invented it. Grasp that and the rest is unimportant.

it is extremely useful, if you are hating on extremely useful things I don't know what to tell you

i didn't learn calculus on my first day, but i also didn't learn category first then calculus. wanna know why? because one is a generalization of the other, and learning a generalization first is counter-intuitive by design. it's meant to be a shortcut for more advanced ideas to be studied on, and why the notion of low level and high level even exists. its applies to the abstraction level, which is the price you pay for generality. it's not desirable at all really. low level abstraction means the logic is more fundamental, and that's what should be taught first simply because a foundational approach is is a ground up approach.

>that spacing
>using IT'S CURRENT YEAR as an argument
Okay reddit but that's not the fucking point. If he want to learn how to program, not learning what is an address (or a reference as it is called in java) is plain stupid.
>Why don't you emphasize how important each cycle is, and how C or asm saves cycles, if you're going to give advice from 1985
'Cause you can't coun't cycles in C, mainly 'cause that's a high-level language you dumbfuck. Depending on the compiler and the architecture targeted the machine language generated with the same C source won't be the same.

>mansplaining
>>/lgbt/

this, but unironically

> muh GIL
> significant whitespace

If someone complains about python and its not about how duck typing is actually untyped no matter how much they claim it is, then they're just regurgitating Jow Forums memes they barely understand and can be ignored.

Because,even tho it's useful I do like other languages that have better syntax,that is all

That was unironic, plangs are all the same in the end. Learn one learn them all. Anyone that can't pick one up in an afternoon with nothing but some Google searches isn't a programmer. Hell I learned most of mine before even Altavista was around.

>it's not desirable at all really. low level abstraction means the logic is more fundamental, and that's what should be taught first simply because a foundational approach is is a ground up approach.
its not desirable but that is how reality works. Putting a group of people through most dense low level logic course will cause most of them to fail and it would a colossal waste of resources, teaching generalization on the other hand will allow more people to keep up with the course so later they can either take advanced courses in the same manner or maybe even move to a different but related field, because what they have learned is likely to be useful,

>Anyone that can't pick one up in an afternoon with nothing but some Google searches isn't a programmer.
yeah, one just picks up a language in one afternoon with few google searches, I have been picking up languages in the last month, picked up about 28, I am real programmer now

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Yes, nobody can possibly be better than you, a mediocre shit poster on Jow Forums. Clearly you represent the apex of the human species.

Oh common. I know JS coders who can run circles arround you. You can do crazy stuff with React. Web design doesn‘t end with homepages, if we talk about the web presence of a major car sharing service where you integrate dozens of different systems with real time data thats a different beast.

But at least you can feel keel because jerking around with registers in your arduino board - wow so jealous!!

It's not like there are that many to learn, so you couldn't spend a month trying that without realizing how many are just copies of each other. If you can't program in Intercal within a few hours you just suck. I'll grant unlimited time getting language tooling running because most of them are complete shit though. Sometimes it takes a week to get some esoteric research shit to compile build anywhere outside the compsci department that invented it, and embedded development on even the most popular micros is an adventure in frustrating tooling limitations at the best of times.

it seems to me that everyone is better than everyone else on Jow Forums

We are the elite.
Only seasoned senior developers and top IT Mgmt comes to Jow Forums.

If you think it's impossible to pickup a new language in an afternoon that's just pathetic. If you can't see that they're all the same thing with trivial syntax differences (in the same imperative/declarative tree at least) then what are you doing posting on Jow Forums? Do you think it takes any time at all for a c programmer to pick up a c-like such as Java, js or php? Or that it's some giant leap from any of those to python? You just trade out curly brackets for colons and whitespace if your own head isn't firmly lodged in your colon.

>wah wah I can't program rocket launchers and operating systems what dooo
>dude just start small and easy and pick language like python
>no that's garbage and will shrink my epeen I am hardcore want to start big
you goddamn tool

>pick language like python
t. brainlet

can a c programmer pick up asm in an afternoon, can you write the same quality and same amount of code in asm as in c after picking it up last afternoon?
can you pick up something like erlang in afternoon, can you write same amount and same quality code as c only after one afternoon?

>Why is learning to code so hard?
First, try not to be a dumb attention whoring anime pedo degenerate.
Second, try learning TO PROGRAM, not TO CODE.

you seem to misunderstand the goal here. i'm not here to get your attention, or market a language. i'm simply explaining what the best method for learning it is. if you are struggling to keep your interest, that's not an issue with the language or teaching method. that's an issue with you, and your goals with wanting to learn in the first place. if you just want to be able to say you've learned a language you can learn whatever language you want, and you will fufill that criteria.

it's not particularly hard. it's just hard to learn anything new after say 25. if you're young and curious and have at least 100+ IQ it should be quite easy.

>he complains about anime on Jow Forums
Reddit is the other way.

This clearly depend on your definition of „picking up a language“.

Even the creator of C++ claims he can‘t keep the whole language in his head.

But if you mean „write basic programs with loops, if-constructs and basic I/O“, yes thats possible.

I had to work with Scala at some point and of course I could use my google-fu and StackOverflow to create valid code. But I half of the time I didn't ‘have a fucking clue about what I‘m doing.

One example I remeber:
I had to cast an Array into a DataFrame. After copy&pasting the correct code I took a few minutes to research what „Implicits“ actually are. I soon find out they are complicated and potentially dangerous, so I marked the passage with a „Here be dragons, don‘t touch!“ comment and moved on.

One day I‘ll probably deep dive into this, but the everyday life of a programmer means half of the time you don‘t understand why it works..

> points out the major trees of plangs
> misses that I pointed those out already
> thinks this is somehow a winning argument

The actual state of Jow Forums

No shit learning your first functional language takes more than an afternoon, same with your first asm. If it takes anywhere near as long for your second you might be functionally redarded and should consult your caregiver before further posting

Once you know a couple of languages, OP, switching to something new becomes trivial. It'll also be something you'll only end up doing when you need it for a specific project that others are working on. You shouldn't aim to start every one of your own projects in a different language, nor should you treat learning programming about learning a bunch of different languages. Rather, learn concepts and how they can be applied in different languages.

Learn node and react
You will be more productive and useful to society than 3/4 of this board's neckbeards

Spotted the fizzbuzzer..

Hate to break it to you this way, but you might just be a shitty programmer. If you don't understand something and unironically wrote a here be dragons comment you just wrote buggy, fragile and unmaintainable code.
If you're on snack overflow something went wrong, real resources are like the stl documentation which I always have open because as you said you can't possibly keep it all in your head. What you should be able to do is apply patterns you already know and lookup lang or library specific names for them. Knowing how to find resources is possibly the most important part.
If you think you are limited to hello world you are holding yourself back. I meant in an afternoon you should have the language idioms down, know what the standards are and what features / libraries you should be looking through. I don't mean you should mindlessly memorize every possible api call, just know how to find the ones you need.

>i'm simply explaining what the best method for learning it is
you are out of touch with reality, if your method is so good why then no educational institutions anywhere use it?

>sees that I have missed a (poorly constructed) point in previous post
>continues to insult, me and the whole of Jow Forums

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Spotted the guy who still needs to interview for jobs, lol
Fuzzbuzz, there's a name I've not heard in a long time. That's the one where you have to prove you understand modulo arithmetic right? The "I didn't spend my childhood eating paint chips" filter. Glad you didn't trip over that bar lying on the ground.
Have you even written a jit? Know what an ast is and how to use it? How many device drivers have you worked on, would you say? I don't mean downloading and installing them, mister I passed Fuzzbuzz.

oh look its mister smarty pants

There's only a few you'd ever want to know. C/C++, HTML and CSS (not languages), bash, Rust (maybe). Anything else is garbage and useless.

(you) x2

Maybe because it's not for you, you should stick to anime. That 8 year old 2d girl will help you cope with all of your problems buddy.

dilate

It's kinda funny and sad at the same time when I see someone coping this hard.

Maybe you should try to stay on reddit.

>reddit
You can't respond like a normal human being, it's worse than I thought.
If I made you angry or sad don't worry, I'm sure your 2d waifu-san will make things better for you.

seething

You're not even trying.
here's your last (you) before you go to where you're from.

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Just like I said, you don't even know how to talk to other people from watching anime for years.
>underaged 2d girl
>cowtits
Is that what you like, animetards ?