Systemd bad

> ties to us govt
You won't fix anything much by just avoiding systemd. Maybe the US govt doesn't care at all about the init given how many other more universal places they should have access to.

> some start jobs can delay startup by 2 minutes and also during shutdown
Yea, if they hang? It's a reasonable timeout, I'd say - decent compromise between murdering the fuck out of every large database process that isn't immediately done writing to disk and hanging forever on processes that don't terminate.

yes, sweety, even free software has progressed to the point that our desktop machines often run multiple daemons or servers which benefit from centralized communication and management

>made by redhat
This is a good thing. Having a company whose success depends on the security, reliability, and performance of systemd spend millions each year checking for bugs, security holes, etc is hardly a negative. As for the government, it's still all FOSS and independently audited with every update, unlike alternatives, and if there were a backdoor it already would have been used by now
(Also IBM is the GOAT tech company)
>it's very big and has its claws into everything
yes, but that's what makes it good. Having a single interface which controls system services is a lot nicer than a different syntax for each one and saves software authors and maintainers a lot of work (plus, user services are really fucking useful. would recommend using them)
>

Let's settle this once and for all
Are white people bad?

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i wonder who could be behind this post

Dunno, but considering Lennart's disdain for fixing systemd-related security issues, I'd rather not use it where possible.
Also:
>A stop job is running (45m53s / 9002m)

>A stop job is running (45m53s / 9002m)
^C^C
Esc
Ctrl+Alt+Del
>A stop job is running (00m01s / 9002m)

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I don't really care about privacy that much. Void Linux is so nice and simple, I haven't even had to think about Systemd for a couple of years now. When I tried other distros in the past, I could never understand what it was doing. There are so many unclear processes running, I don't know how anyone understands it

werks on my machine.

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Worse than the orange man.

systemd is a giant blob of bullshit junk code that has no real practical purpose beyond making Red Hat the proprietor of the ecosystem and making your system shittier.
There is literally no real advantage it offers over sysv init even.
All it does is it reimplements stuff that doesn't need to be reimplemented (in a metric fuckton of garbage spaghetti code that doesn't actually add any useful features), consumes existing projects and bundles it all into a single colossal monolithic turdlog.
Fractionally faster boot times don't mean shit and even if they did, look, there's runit and now there's OpenRC.
systemd is literally the definition of bloatware.
It's huge, it doesn't actually do anything useful compared to alternatives and if I wanted a layer of crapware in between the kernel and the user turning my operating system into a fecal black box, I'd use Microsoft Windows.
Just being garbage is one thing, and if that's all there was to it, I wouldn't give a single fuck about it, but the fact of the matter is that it acts like literal cancer, consuming vital system utilities and making more and more software depend on it (by the power of Red Hat) until it finally becomes unavoidable (which is in fact the end goal).
Figuratively speaking, it's akin to a giant tentacle monster slowly extending it's tentacles and closing in to rape you and even though it hopefully never will, it still makes people uncomfortable enough to be vocal about it.

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no
>forcing

>its made by redhat
buzzword
>govt and is currently owned by ibm
buzzword
>very big
>claws
buzzword
>smaller and easier to audit
buzzword
>having options is good
there are? just don't use it

>Let's settle this once and for all
Won't happen here

>giant blob
buzzword, not a blob sine it is open source
>bullshit junk
buzzword
>literally
buzzword
>spaghetti
buzzword
this, it's Jow Forums - Technology.
Everyone that doesn't agree with you will just parrot the same troll replies over and over again.

Same here. I feel slightly more retarded now

imagine defending shitstaind unironically lol

>buzzword
Fine but you failed to address the meat of the post.

OwO

looks like a future Stallman user

there's no content in your post, is the same shit you faggots parrot over and over again.
Bring a public discussion to anyone who develops on linux and you will be shitted on for being retarded

>there's no content in your post
If you say so.

Buzzword is a buzzword

>buzzword
Also a buzzword, frick off

yes

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>options are a good thing
The best tool for the job is the only good thing
>but that's not systemd
Usually it is. It's standardized Linux for all the things it does and that'll continue into the future, and that's more important than the minor issues it actually has, which aren't nearly as many or important as people claim
>but what about the Unix philosophy
Unix and the software around it came into being so that code could be run on a hundred completely different kinds of machines, portability was king. Nowadays there's really just x86, ARM, etc, a small number of platforms that have existed for a long time. Linux needs to actually exist in the current year and just write software for that year.

systemd bad confirmed by QUINTS based

Systemd is great.
It drives loads of users into much more sane distributions and OSes.
Void Linux, Crux, Devuan and OpenBSD welcome the new influx of sane users and are now the fastest growing out there.
The idiots stay with debian and fedora and use Gnome, which is also great. Nobody want's idiot users.

SystemD is great.
It forces idiots to use shitty, poorly supported distros and cuts them off from major desktop environments (without major reworks). It's sort of like gluten, totally harmless but there's a subset of people who believe they are harmed by it and therefore eat shitty "gluten-free" "pizza crust" and "bread". Basically people self select to use shittier software due to misguided ideals and misconceptions as to what systemd actually is.

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dilate

systemd i like a Suppository, don't like it it can be a pain in the ass.

but it works, so you grit your teeth and use em

luke leighton doesn't like it (see youtu.be/jNR4zKqa6vI ), but I still hype it.

very nice art. you should sell it for 2 millions

Systemd makes linux work on many more computers. I have no problems with it.

>buzzword
buzzword
>buzzword
buzzword
>buzzword
buzzword
>buzzword
buzzword
>there
buzzword
>are?
buzzword
>just
buzzword
>don't
buzzword
>use
buzzword
>it
buzzword

wow, nobody checking these digits? Welcome to nu-chan

It's pretty much garbage but it's garbage that somehow is working well enough for distros to not use anything else. Maybe soon enough it'll fall over and die and distros will be forced to abandon it.

systemd makes my life easier and im not a teenager larping as a software minimalist
so yeah it's good

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only retards care about init systems lmfao

Systemd has virtually no developer community.
If the main devs get hit by a bus nobody will pick up the pile of trash.
Since the systemd users are mainly very stupid they won't be able to make any contribution and every smart person doesn't use systemd in the first place.
It will be completely dead within weeks.

back to your echo chamber

>a-any day now

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Is that moot with justin Trudeau???

void linux seems alright.
Is it any good?

Using is since two years as main driver.
Most stable system so far. And this even though it is rolling release.

It's easir to take gnu out of a distro than take systemd.
More and more libs depend on it each day.
It will end the GNU/Linux meme. And linux based OS will just be like an open source Windows/Mac.

And that's a good thing!

systemd has fucking red hat developing it, are you retarded?

could i install any the following programs without systemd
>krita
>blender
>godot
>waterfox
>apache2
>openshot
>visual studio code
if the answer is no ill stick with systemd.

There aren't any other rolling release distros as stable as void. But you have to config lot's of small details (like clock sinc, fonts, baterry, details) , even if you choose a base image with a DE.
But that's just initial setup. Once you have it done it's really stable. You can keep on updating without worry.
Just don't choose musl. Unless you actually need to static compile stuff for embedded. Lot's of stuff depend on glibc stuff. It's getting better because of the rise of musl for containers, which is the current fad on entriprise code development.

Yes.
Notthing really stops you. It's a fucking init system.
Only apache 2 would be started in a different way, a saner and easier way. Runit makes developing deamons much easier.

no way, systemd services and --user services are really fucking easy and convenient

Indeed. This means it is not a community project.
It is a corporate project with the goal of taking control and ownership of the linux userland.
Of course average systemd users a.k.a. stupid people are not able to fathom what kind of game is played.
But they don't really care. All the want is a free version of Windows.

Have you haver developed a daemon?
Runit is as simple as it can get. It does what it must and nothing else.

I will stick with systemd then.

Stupid people should indeed stick with systemd.
Giving stupid people too much powerful tools usually means they will make a huge mess and smart people usually have to clean that up.

This.
Redhatware is making linux 'Windows but "Open" '
Fucking Android is like that and it sucks. It's a corporate owned linux. Look at it. That what red hat is trying to archieve on the servers and desktop side. A fucking full OS controlled by them.

But hey! It's free software! Stallman happy!

It's not really free when there isn't enough power to fork and maintain quality. You are shackled by depency hell, complexity, and manpower.
Getting an alternative init system is easy. Replacing one when every other component is heavely tied to it, without standards as the corporation changes apis as it wishes, is not easy.

Look at browsers. Google stuff and lot's of sites are starting to break more often on FF as chrome is the market lead, and they decide to change something, all their sites changes accordingly, and FF is left behind as some stuff only works on chrome/chromium.
But hey, chromium is free!

This is the future you choose.

systemd is unironically good. The people who complain are generally faggots that don't know tech but like to pretend they do.

is this vaporwave?

Well, it is good to have parallel task startup, but openRC had that. And it's good to have services be auto-restarted, but djb daemontools could do that (unless the service double forked, IIRC).

But major bad points for ingesting a load of the system services imo.Idk - I'm not thrilled but I can live with it.

Parroting 'buzzword' is a troll post

>blames systemd for shitty daemons
Any other init system would have the exact same problem in that case, except maybe it wouldn't even have a timeout. The timeout being set too high is just your distro maintainers setting shitty defaults, it is user-configurable.

systemd's interfaces are well-documented freedesktop standards and up to this point (over 240 versions of systemd released), backwards compatibility has been one of the most important priorities.

It's the same arguments over and over because none of these issues were fixed since day 1. You may stick fingers in your ears and scream 'buzzwords' all you want but it will not make these problems go away.
Behave like this in real life and people will slowly back away or call security.

sysvinit good
runit good
openrc good
systemd = the bad thing
benis = :DDDDD

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You'll both soon fall for the Void meme...

> faggots that don't know tech
you mean like system users.
> systemd's interfaces are well-documented
Windows also has "well documennted" APIs. That desn't mean it is not a total pile garbage.
> backwards compatibility has been one of the most important priorities.
That is a complete lie. There is so much volatility in the systemd ecosystem.
Every month there is new shit that breaks things.

>Having a company whose success depends on the security, reliability, and performance of systemd spend millions each year checking for bugs, security holes, etc is hardly a negative.
Why aren't you using Windows in that case? They're making even more money, so that means they spend more to make their system better, right?

Windows is proprietary garbage, stop shilling your toy OS

My point is forking it isn't a problem.
>There is so much volatility in the systemd ecosystem
It is volatile in the sense that new features get added very quickly. Note that new features that would potentially break old things are never enabled per default. Things like PrivateTmp or reduced capability sets need to be explicitly enabled or specified.

>using Apache by choice
>current year
ISHIDIGGY

Chrome(ium) is the same. So? Google has control over it. Changes it's libs and google net now does work on FF properly and neither does other place that use google love bs.

>choice
retard

based

>its made by redhat which has the closest ties to us govt and is currently owned by ibm
Numerous multi billion companies contribute to the Linux Kernel.
>its very big and has its claws into everything
Who cares if it works? The Kernel is also big and has its claws into everything.
>openrc or sysvinit is much smaller and easier to audit
Do you also advocate not using Linux because there are smaller Kernels that are easier to audit?
>some start jobs can delay startup by 2 minutes and also during shutdown
Works on my machine ;^)
>having options is good
Nobody is tying you to a chair and forcing you to use it...

So is there ACTUALLY a single good reason?

>Numerous multi billion companies contribute to the Linux Kernel.
This is actually good.
No corporation can put bulshit there or the others will pull out. See for example, the bad security patches intell tried to merge after meltdown/spectre.
Also, the leader is independent.
If every big free project had the linux structure it would be great.

> Numerous multi billion companies contribute to the Linux Kernel.
Hardware companies and software companies have totally different incentives.
Hardware companies want that their stuff works.
Software companies want control and ownership.
> Who cares if it works? The Kernel is also big and has its claws into everything.
Drivers are complex because they have to be. They deal with the real world.
As soon as you are in userland you want to avoid any complexity as much as possible.
>Nobody is tying you to a chair and forcing you to use it...
Indeed! Also, keep using systemd. It is exactly the right thing made for moronic retards like you.

chmod +x /etc/rc.d/rc.httpd
/etc/rc.d/rc.httpd start

very hard

>Software companies want control and ownership.
Google contributes to the Linux Kernel, so you advocate not using the Linux Kernel?
>As soon as you are in userland you want to avoid any complexity as much as possible.
But things like KDE, LibreOffice, etc., etc. are highly complex too and while they obviously do not have the security piston like systemd, they still are on many systems.
>Indeed!
So why do you complain?

Again, there is ZERO reason in there why you shouldn't use systemd.

> Again, there is ZERO reason in there why you shouldn't use systemd.
There are loads of reasons. The most important reason is not being stupid.

based digits

Google contributes, but so does its competitors. Linux kernel is not owned by a corporation, it is instead a politacal corporation battleground. Which is the best actual model for any free software project that gets too popular.
Intel crap security patches weren't acepted because the kernel is not intel controlled. Bad patches would affect every other company that puts resources into the kernel.
While in redhatware, only redhat interests matter.

/thread

Who is white?

Indeed there is a difference between the kernel which has thousands of contributors and systemd which two contributors paid full time by one company.

>linux userland
There is no such thing. Linux is a kernel.

You probably don't realize how much GNU software you depend on.

Yeah, try running windows programs on a bare Linux kernel retard.

I myself don't use systemd. No, I don't give a shit about being "Unix-like" and the Unix philosophy can get fucked.
I don't run a lot of services and I don't really need anything complex, so OpenRC it is for me.
If I were managing more complex setups, with tens or even hundreds of services running, each requiring special configuration, I'd probably consider using it.
While it does have technical flaws, I don't see it as some big evil boogeyman, and I can understand what it brings to the table.
That's why I'm not against the *existence* of systemd, but I'm against it being the default.
95% of (desktop) GNU/Linux users will probably never have to write a service themselves, and if they do, they will usually be fairly simple. That's why the default should be something simpler, yet modern, such as runit. The additional complexity systemd brings does not provide any practical advantage in those cases.
Leave systemd to those who actively *choose* to use it, but don't impose it on people.
Because yes, as much as you're trying to deny it, systemd *is* being forced.

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The sad thing is that you believe this post is smart and saying anything, when it's far from it.

>doesn't want bloatware
>wants to follow the Unix way
Oh, the irony.

>There are loads of reasons.
No, absolutely none.
All the ones you mention are either straight forward retarded or apply to many other pieces of software which have never been attacked on those grounds.