The ultimate technological question, can we cheat death by surviving the big bounce?

Can't they do lung transplants?

>eternal life
What's the point of this meme? Life would become even more meaningless without some sort of limit, like playing a constantly expanding game. Also you wouldn't be really you at that point and just some super consciousness with no resemblance to humanity.

And if you'd get to that stage, there will be probably ways to mess with quantum fields to a point where laws of physics would become a joke.

You could still simulate a human reality. Like the one we're in now. No matter how advanced we become, simulating a basic existence to satify our primal nature is possible.

Like running DOS games on your 2080Ti 9900k.

that's tough man. I hope that even if you do have to go out you do it with as much dignity as possible

And why would an advanced intelligence bother with that? Why even become so advanced only to go back to experiencing life the same we did before.

OK, then simulate something else. The point is, going on living is better than dying.

See, that's the tell-tale mark of a young person: so in love with life and want it to go on forever. Give it another few decades and your mind will change. Life lasts long enough as it is.

It's more of existing than living. It'd be almost like evolution going backwards. "You" would basically be a computer calculating how to extract energy to ensure calculations how to extract more energy, eventually merge with others and create some infinity of ... pretty much nothing. And sure, you wouldn't feel the boredom of it but you couldn't even add some subjective point to this shit unlike the current life.

it would be extremely dangerous for us to advance technologically beyond what our minds can handle. It's one thing to artificially boost your IQ but it's another thing to extract that primitive, vindictive, violent ape lodged in your brain

You can't transplant consciousness. It's an emergent property of brain functions. There is no "hard problem of conscoousness", we just haven't deobfuscated our organic algorithms yet. If you however create a non organic counterpart to your brain, you'd effectively have two consciousnesses, you aren't really "transplanting" anything. Uploading your brain to a compiter makes as much sense as uploading your intestine to a computer. Even with the right tech, it will never be YOUR experience. Immortality can only be achieved by doing "Step 1" and refining it, until we can replace everything biological with something longer lasting. The brain would have to be preserved organically, and slowly phased into something non organic. Remember there really isn't a "you", just the experience of "you". Your sense of self depends on all parts of the brain interacting with each other (as seen with split brain cases, where both hemispheres are separated through surgery), so really what youd need to preserve "self" is a continuous but slow replacement of neurons.

Accurate as fuck, I remember how "living forever" was my greatest wish when I was 4-12. As 25 year old boomer who's happy as fuck with his life, immortality sounds like a worse version of hell.

pointless conjecture, the post. nice word salad :)

you should look up the definition of "conjecture"

Maybe you guys just have bad lives. My life is awesome, and I want it to continue as long as possible. 28 btw.

The big crunch won't be happening so whats your point?

yes, and nothing in your post is anything but conjecture. everything from "beyond what our minds can handle" to "extract that...ape lodged in your brain" has hidden, unproven assumptions. fucking retard.

Right on.

This thread is too interesting for Jow Forums

Death is inevitable, you can not transfer consciousness.
Even if you get a perfect simulation of your brain YOU are still in your body, and the computer is just doing arithmetic without any consciousness, even if the abomination inside the computer thinks it is alive it isn't, but you are, you are alive and trapped in this earthly hull until the day your heart stops beating.

A simulation is NOT the thing itself, the map is not the territory. The simulation of your brain is as close to "you" as a photo is.

If you fail to accept that in 100 years you will be dead and your consciousness has left this world to whatever is beyond it, you are deluding yourself.

My life is good too, I could go on forever like this, I think, but it isn't reality. I will wither away and I will die.

it would have consciousness though, otherwise it wouldnt be a perfect simulation. or are you implying some form of dualism? otherwise youre right. but death can be postponed with genetic enhancements.

you still haven't looked it up though

i hate how brand war thread no.721 will get more replies than this thread.

youre a fuckign retard. i dont have to look it up because you are the one that needs to look it up. the absolute state of Jow Forums

you seem REALLY hot and bothered user. See, I'm just trying to help here but you keep lashing out

You're all assuming that soul doesn't exist but you can't ignore the possibility

>it would have consciousness though, otherwise it wouldnt be a perfect simulation.
No, it doesn't have consciousness. To claim otherwise is ridiculous.
Consciousness isn't a result of the physical phenomena, it is a result of you really being a human, of you being alive, because if consciousness has any meaningful definition it has to distinguish what is purely transforming input to output and things which really are alive.
You can be a pessimist and claim that a human is just input output, but then consciousness is nothing but a face anyway and the distinction between life and death utterly irrelevant.

Even if a videogame simulates eg. a fly so well that it's behavior is indistinguishable from a real fly, by simulating it's brain functions perfectly it would be ridiculous to say that this thing is a fly, or that you in anyway can harm it.

But I have to undermine myself a bit here, what if you gradually replaced your brain by machine equivalents?
Certainly replacing a tiny part of your brain still keeps you yourself, a bit of memory or whatever replaced by the computer equivalent doesn't really mean anything. And gradually you could make your brain into a computer, without there ever being any point where you stopped being yourself.

>but death can be postponed with genetic enhancements.
I do not deny the possibility, but modifying our genetic makeup is something radically different from transferring consciousness.

>You exist in a simulated reality in a tiny ship floating in space
this is actually already the case. a couple of thousand years ago humanity got wrecked by an ecological disaster (global warming destroyed the earth). some part of humanity could be saved by space aliens and is now on it's way to a second earth. all of those humans and us are living/lived in something science fiction calls "stasis sleep". we all live in the same simulation. when we die we die though. dead bodies are basically turned into food - same goes for excrements. the aliens aren't actually biological. they're a highly sophisticated AI that has been created by another alien race for the purpose of space travel. alien abductions are actually examinations gone wrong, for example when somebody accidentally wakes up etc. those examinations are necessary for your general well being. what happens is basically a simulation of earth's history up until the point we destroyed ourselves. we live multiple times through this simulation - as different people and different races in different times. the aliens have been studying us for a pretty long time therefore they have extensive recordings of all sorts of historical things. it's very unlikely that any of us is going to see earth 2 as we will be long dead before the ship arrives there. the simulation serves only one purpose: it's like some sort of huge personality test that filters out certain personality traits that led to our destruction. those humans who reach earth 2 will be very different from the humans who lived on earth. they will be compassionate and highly intelligent. ubermenschen. the simulation itself isn't really a simulation... it's more like watching a fully immersive movie. you live the life of somebody who has already lived his life. you basically see his life through his eyes and they measure your cognitive and emotional responses which in turn decide if you're worthy of procreating or not. that's basically it in a nutshell.

Certainly I am not enough of a pessimist to deny that consciousness is more then a purely physical phenomenon.

Mine is awesome too, partly because there is a very limited time and no way to even consider doing 1% of the things I'd enjoy too. Time is like money, you value it more when your funds are limited. Imagine how happy a poorfag would be if he found a bag with half a mil. A trillionaire making as much in a few seconds would perceive the same bag as trash.

OP, Did you just played SOMA?

>Consciousness isn't a result of the physical phenomena
Yeah, no.

>ignore the possibility
it's an unkown possibility. there are also plenty of other unkown possibilities (reincarnation, or some 'soul' that ends up as an interdimensional rabbit for the rest of existence), all equally as likely (because theyre all unkowable). if you accept ONE of those possibilities, you are being irrational unless you simultaneously accept ALL OTHER possibilities, amd that would obvoously lead to contradictions. I cant believe im actually explaining why pascalls wager is wrong on here.
...so, dualism? if its a perfect simulation, then it will have the same properties as our brain, so it will have conscoousness. to claim otherwise is to claim there is some 'soul' or 'otherness' to the brain which wouldnt be recreated in a physically perfect simulation of a brain. so far, everything points to the brain being the sole reason for consciousness, since removing it also removes consciousness and damaging/modifying it also changes consciousness. youre also confusing "perfect simulation" with "simulation", as well as "simulated enough". a current gen chat bot can pass the turing test but that doesnt mean its really a perfect simulation, its just "simulated enough" to fool us at first glance. any deeper understanding of how it works would prove it doesnt have consciousness. regarding your penultimate point, yes, that would work, but the non organic replacement would have to be a perfect analog to current neurons. so, it would need to perform the same functions in the same "format".

the story of that game is so normie tier it made me rage a bit everytime the protagonist got stupid again.

>>Consciousness isn't a result of the physical phenomena
Not him, but it entirely isn't. Consciousness seems to exist separately from the strict casual chain of matter/force moving other matter around in predictable fashion. Think of the Laplace Demon thought experience. If a some omniscient entity knew the precise location and movement of every atom in the universe extending back to the Big Bang, it could predict with 100 percent certainty your or anyone else's future. But if it told you you'd die in a car accident at 5pm today, you can simply consciously will yourself not to drive. Your consciousness allowed you to step outside of this strict causal chain. This is the hard problem of consciousness. How do immaterial phenomena like ideas, thoughts, etc "move the matter around in our brain that gives rise to mind?" You're not responding to the physical properties of the words you see on the screen (the light photons emanating out), but the meaning of them.

It's a paradox science or philosophy isn't even close to solving, leaving many prominent philosophers of mind and neuroscientists to just throw their hands up in the air and declare themselves mysterians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_mysterianism

>thought experience.
*thought experiment

i did not

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural_abilities_in_Scientology_doctrine

Attached: Scientology Super Powers Program.jpg (3680x2070, 1.11M)

>omniscient being says youre going to die from a car crash
>omniscient enough to know that but not omniscient enough to know the consequences of telling you and not knowing youd prevent it trivially
retarded thought experiment. there is no hard problem of consciousness, to say there is is to say you know all there is about the brain to perfection. foolish

also, yes, thoughts do literally 'move your brain around'. same way you cant see the electrons moving inside a cpu, but theyre still there. our brain just uses really obfuscated methods.

> MEST is an acronym Hubbard coined which stands for matter, energy, space and time, the component parts of the physical universe.[1] It is claimed that by completing Scientology courses, it is possible to eventually attain "cause over MEST" — the ability to control matter, energy and spacetime in the physical universe, free of the encumbrance of the body.[

So this, without the insane religion part where we accomplish it technoloigcally.

part 3. if im not responding to the photons coming from the screen, then how am i responding at all? instead of assuming preemptively that it somehow breaks the causal chain, isnt the rational response to assume that yes, somewhere along the line you MUST be responding to the photons? everything else seems to function this way

If I didn't know any better it would be ideal.
Humans are dumb, take away the realization that I'm living forever and I won't notice nor care, I would exist through the end of the universe without a second thought about it.

As I'm banging an infinite stream of catgirls and sleeping on a giant pile of Doritos.

Lung Transplants are trash, the success rate is incredibly low, specially post operation, you die almost definitely 5 years after one, either due to your body rejecting it or dying due to an infection since you have to take medication for life that reduces the throughput of your immune system in order to keep your lung from bein rejected, leaving other forms of diseases open room to fuck you up.

But this catgirl banging and Dorito eating will come to an end during the universe's collapse.

How can we survive through almost infinite compression and expansion?

Maybe some sort of phase shift where temporarily gravity doesn't affect us.

Maybe somehow we can escape the collapse, like breaking free of Earth's gravity. Existing out in "nothing" far away from the compression and explosion. Then just resume living in the universe when expansion reaches us again.

Can confirm, did psychedelics.

The idea is to nullify all negative thoughts you've ever had to become clear. Once you honestly achieve this state you'll no longer be reactive or act reactive. You'll act 100% proactive to all situations. And your tone level will sky rocket. Meaning you'll be brighter and more fun to be around and you'll have a better life because you became a better person.

Time And Frequency, Theory And Fundamentals
nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/MONO/nbsmonograph140.pdf

Attached: E-Meter.jpg (2048x1365, 347K)

you dont seem to understand what infinite expansion and compression means. it will happen everywehre, if the model is correct. but it isnt. most likely we will have heat death instead, and the only solution to that is finding something that reverses entropy and creates energy/matter out of nothing, so basically magic.

I know this sounds retarded. But stop eating. Nothing but water, salt and potassium. Do this for 12 days and see if your symptoms get better.

That's my plan, my lung specialist is trying to get me on some expensive as fuck meds that are for a similar condition, it would cost me 5k/month to take these for the rest of my life.

But since those meds aren't for my disease my health insurance rejects paying for them, thing is my disease has no meds at all lmao, it's rare as fuck.
I refuse taking the financial toll for that shit, me and my wife have a very healthy financial life right now, very nice prospects on that regard, if I start taking that shit while having to pay it all myself, I would see myself under a bridge in a couple years.

So my only option is not taking them, rack in cash, enjoy the life I have left, and leave my loved once with a nice stash.

If the demon tells you you're gonna die, then it's injecting its own modifications into the previously predicted sequence of events. No surprise that that would change the outcome.

time as existing in time has already been debunked by general theory of relativity. time is clearly a property of space and vice versa. the two are not separate, and cant be separated.

Seems like the advice of a lot of self-help type books or motivational speakers.

Also fairly utopian sounding and unachievable.

What's on the other side of the expanding universe? If we could hang out there, while your "regular" universe implodes/ explodes, we might be OK.

It's retarded and I won't try it, the fuck?
I have a genetic disease man, the tiny hairs inside my lungs are paralyzed and don't do their job of moving garbage out of my lungs, so it stays there causing infections and destroying my airways, and as time goes by that destructive cycle gets stronger.

No amount of fasting and supplements will change that.

based. microdosing can act as a potent nootropic making you think a lot clearer and efficiently, so its no real surprise people discover things while tripping although microdosing is objectively more useful for philosophical endeavours

>No amount of fasting and supplements will change that.
Nah dude, that's just what Big Pharma WANTS you to think. Wake up, sheeple

>whats on the other side
there ks no other side thats what jt means for soemthing to be infinite. its like asking where is a square's 5th side, just doesnt make sense.

I'm not you, but if I had ~5 years to live, I would try fairly non-risky stuff like this just to see what happens.

If you're good then you're good! Stick to what you're doing. So what if you live on a prison planet called earth where 99% of all people are criminals who lie, cheat, steal. How many safe places on this planet is there from criminal behavior? NONE. This place exists because it's an open air prison planet.

Attached: Secret_Vault.jpg (720x998, 161K)

The universe is expanding right now, ever since the big bang. What lies on the other side of the expansion horizon, isn't agreed upon by anyone. It could be "nothing."

Whatever is over there, it could be a way out.

you keep assuming an other side. there is no reason to believe it isnt just more universe. the only reason there even exists such a horizon is because light has a finite speed, so points in space that are too far away will never produce light that will reach us due to the expanding nature of the universe.

Enjoy your pneumonia:

>Xenu (/ˈziːnuː/),[1][2][3] also called Xemu, was, according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who 75 million years ago brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes, and killed them with hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology scriptures hold that the thetans (immortal spirits) of these aliens adhere to humans, causing spiritual harm.[1][6]

>These events are known within Scientology as "Incident II",[7] and the traumatic memories associated with them as "The Wall of Fire" or "R6 implant". The narrative of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in earthly events, collectively described as "space opera" by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that the "R6 implant" (past trauma)[8] was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia, etc.) anyone who attempts to solve it".[8][9][10]

Electrons have physical properties that can be measured and calculated. Ideas are immaterial. Yes, the post-hoc activity in response to that idea is physical, but we can't measure nor observe the mass or force of an idea interact with the physical properties of your brain, because as far as we know, ideas don't have a physical properties. A physicalist reductionist view of the world, which much of our science operates on, assumes physical property interaction with other physical property (chemical reactions, electrical reactions, Newtonian reaction of mass and force). Consciousness is a problem within this model because it interacts with non-physical, non-measurable, and non-observable phenomena.

> somewhere along the line you MUST be responding to the photons?
If you're assuming that the meaning is somehow mysteriously embedded in the physical properties of a communicative medium, like a screen, book, etc, then someone who doesn't speak English should have the exact same reaction in this case, or at least a similar reaction. They don't, because, again, your brain/mind isn't responding to the physical properties but the meaning, while someone who doesn't speak the language or is incapable of understand language is only seeing the physical properties of the words and not interacting with their meaning. Furthermore, the medium, whether the idea is communicated to you on a screen, in a book, or spoken to you, doesn't change the meaning of the idea, despite the difference between the physical differences between photons and soundwaves.

The problem isn't the brain obfuscating its methods necessarily, but the puzzling nature of the immaterial world of ideas (which the human brain and thus mind creates), etc being able to "move the stuff around in your brain." The experiment to solve this once and for all would to be find the physical property of ideas, being as measurable as an electron or hydrogen. That probably won't happen.

OK, so say that it is still just more universe.
When the universe collapses, if we can just slip through that barrier, we could survive there until the next expansion event arrives, bringing with is stars, resources, etc. to allow us to keep living indefinitely.

The confirm part didn't come from concluding it through reasoning, but actually experiencing a state where 'you' didn't exactly existed anymore. Im not talking ego death, im talking actually becoming insane combined with total short term and partial long term memory loss for a couple hours. Was very traumatic but also therapeutic, but the later stages of the come down do actually lend themselves to more uninvolved psychoanalysis of yourself quite well.
And yes, md'ing is based af.

Xenu = Xenology the ultimate story of the Demiurge

"I’m just I’m just kidding you mostly. I don’t believe that you’ve been in the universe seventy-six trillion years. I don’t believe you have any past before birth. I don’t believe that there’s any reason whatsoever for this universe to be here except that some fellow called the devil or something that built it. I don’t believe any of these things. And I don’t want to be agreed with about them. It infuriates me to be agreed with about them. So I’m not asking for anybody to agree with me but I’m not asking for anybody to disagree with me either." LRH

If you was to actually read the material. It clearly states the OTIII is a creative process to test your integrity. To make sure you don't instantly believe alien things presented to you. LOL I love this it always shows who knows and who fails the integrity test. The R6 is the Messiah implant. That forces people to think sacrifice and karma are the way to true enlightenment (You see this bullshit justice mentally on reddit all the time.) Basically R6 keeps poor people poor and the weak minded rich in control.

Here is a classic version of R6 implants at work
The Family on Netflix!
netflix.com/title/80063867

Attached: CODE_BREAKERS.jpg (1536x2048, 313K)

>non measurable, nom physical
try measuring all the electrons in your cpu while its performing some task. yeah, and brains are a lot more obfuscated than the neat, orderly system that is the cpu. just because we cant measure it right now doesnt mean we can deduce and/or induce that consciousness is tied to the brain, same way you dont need to know what gene is responsible for eye color to know its hereditary. you are for some reason assuming that because we cant measure it right this very isntance, its some immaterial substance, otherwise known as god of the gaps argument in fedora philosophy.

youre not getting it. the big crunch model would mean that ALL of space would collapse at the same time, and because the universe is infinite, all of infinite space everywhere would collapse. thered be nowhere to run. the thing about infinity is that you can divide or subtract it by infinity and it will still be infinite.

You're missing the point. Science is based on precedents leading to predictable antecedents. Every physical thing in our universe above the quantum level operates by strict cause-and-effect. Conscious beings seem to be able interrupt this chain with thought. Think of something simple as dieting. Despite the chemical reactions in your body demanding that you eat a certain amount, you're using conscious will to suppress that urge in service of an "idea" of health, longevity, or self-improvement. The reductionist model would have us just mindlessly indulging vis a vis these chemical interactions within our body.

the brain can ignore certain stimuli, so that means that conaciousness is immaterial? quite a leap. why cant a sufficiently advanced algorithm be programmed to udner certaim conditions, ignore certain inputs? it seems you are starting off with the perspective of your conclusion and not the other way around.

Back in the 70s futurists like yourself thought we'd have a take-once no ill effects pill for cancer.
What we got was indefinite life extension for AIDS and most cancers past stage 3b are still 95% fatal.

So while I jump on the "this is the time the technology is right" bandwagon too, just keep that in mind.

>that awful english
>bing bing wahoo
die

I know I know. I’m hoping just for life extension to get started, with 50-80 years before expecting true “indefinite” living.

By then, the worlds population will be imploding, so keeping alive anyone they can would actually be seen as a positive (unlike we world think of it today).

>god of the gaps
Burden of proof is actually on the consciousness is totally material camp. You first have to find the physical instantiation of meaning for the theory to gets its legs. No one can do that nor has any idea how do to that. And this isn't some appeal to magic on my part. This problem is a legit paradox that has befuddled our greatest minds for millennia, thus the concession to "mysterianism." I know that term sounds new agey and religious, but it isn't. It's simply an acknowledgement that we don't know and don't know how to know how. We can't assume unlimited progress in technology, science, etc. This is a matter of opinion, but people think because we've seen consistent technological and scientific progress, it'll continue indefinitely. I think we've been slowing down and I'm with John Horgan's general view in the End of Science.

if the barrier to entry to the pharma industry were lower, thered be actual incentive to provide cures instead of temporary relief medicines. id bet many large corps would love to have a workforce that never needs sick days, or ceos that never die from unexpected genetic diseases.

science is based on whatever bullshit will get funding

Shut the fuck up, it was an "autocorrect" by my phone.

Good luck surviving proton decay.

Given enough time we all will get resurrected as Boltzman brains with the exact memories we have now.
*shitposts eternally*

I'm gonna laugh when everyone finally finds out everyone is living in a computer simulation. And science is a complete sham. And love alone was the true way to infinity!

you have a fundamental misunderstanding on what the default position is. anyone who makes a claim requires proof for it, whether it be "God exists" or "God doesnt exist". thats because the default position ks the NULL position. the same way a newborn doesnt know if 1 + 1 is 2, or any other number. what im saying is that conscoousness as an emergent product of brain function has a LOT more evidence behind it than the dualist claim of the existence of a soul. some if not all dualist claims are entirely unfalsifiable, so its pointless to discuss. like I said, you dont need to know the exact gene responsibke for eye color to know its hereditary.

Do you have any ideas how to?

thats a huge gamble though. a universe that ends forever forever with an ends of all ends is equally as likely to happen as an advanced society capable of quantum resurrection.

people wouldnt be shitposting on Jow Forums(nel) if they had nobel prize worthy discoveries such as those

Here's a good video on the subject.
youtube.com/watch?v=GpYGMIZ9Bow

Fun fact a catholic priest named Georges Lemaître invented the big bang theory!

>the brain can ignore certain stimuli, so that means that conaciousness is (partly) immaterial?
Yes, because "dumb matter" can't ignore their stimuli.

Algorithms are code. All code does is tell an electrical signal what to do. Remember, code is just dressing up binary in something humans can more easily understand, and binary simply tells transistors to turn on or off. In other words, the code to cpu to output process is a strict causal chain since you can measure every aspect of it. Meaning can't be measured.

electrons are 'dumb matter' too (what isnt?), and when used in an algorithm can ignore certain stimuli as part of their programming. no one is talking about "meaning" too, youre just pushing it in wherever you see fit. comparing the brain or a program to a simplistic domino effect is stupid because a domino cant resist falling down, the same way our eyes cant resist recieving light, but the rest of the brain isnt subject to this. the rest of the brain is not just the eyes.

furthermore, the rest of the brain still cannot resist certain physical events, its just that the larameters for this resistance are obfuscated behind organic-ness. saying otherwise is to claim free will exists (and not just in the free to do as you will without coercion sense as seen from tje lerspective of law). and youd have to first define what free will even means.

>what im saying is that conscoousness as an emergent product of brain function has a LOT more evidence behind it than the dualist claim of the existence of a soul. some if not all dualist claims are entirely unfalsifiable,
I've never claimed the dualist position, nor discounted consciousness being an emergent property of the physical brain (I wholeheartedly agree). I said consciousness is partly immaterial. No one has shown how immaterial ideas and meaning "moves the brain stuff around." Genes are physical things. Ideas aren't. You can simply show me the experiment that demonstrates the "I'm afraid of clowns" idea in physical form entering into someone's brain and producing a chemical reaction that activates the fear response in their amygdala (while on the other hand, someone would see a clown and start laughing. This is the primary point. It's the subjective perception of clowns that can cause two very different physical responses, and not the physical property of a man wearing a green wig and red nose).

>phone
die, phoneposter

if you are claiming it is partly immaterial then you are a dualist. its irrelevant if you call it a soul or not. again, just ebcause no one has shown how thoughts move brain around doesnt mean it doesnt do exactly that. all your clown fear example says is that two different algorithms can react differently to the same stimulus. so far, we have documented that outward expression of thought as well as personality seem to depend entirely on physical/chemical reactions in the brain, as seen with mood affecting meds/drugs or injuries to the brain severely affecting personality. you need not measire the exact reaction to know of its properties, i keep saying this: you dont need to see the gene responsibke for eye color under an electron microscope to know that a gene for it exists, and that it is hereditary