/hpg/ - Headphone General

What audiophile memes have you fallen for this week, Jow Forums?

post requests in this format if you want useful recommendations
>budget
>location
>open/closed
>past headphones
>sound preferences
>intended use

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Other urls found in this thread:

audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-mx3-dac-amp.7312/
en.goldenears.net/11302
twitter.com/AnonBabble

FIRST FOR BIODYNAS
FUCK STAXBRO

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Can you fuck off retarded fuck? post some lolis

here. shotabros and lolibros need to be united

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>tfw right ear is almost 10 dB deafer than left at ~7k frequency due to noise induced damage
at least it's fine otherwise. well, other than the eardrum feeling constantly clocked.

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Pedophile. The word is pedophile.

ok

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>united
that's a funny way of spelling "hanged"

Enjoy FBI coming to your mom's basement, pedo.

Like you never posted lolis before, hypo

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Just stay where you are, sick degenerate.

Normal people don’t save cartoons of children they want to fuck on their computer.

I just want this, only wireless. Except it apparently doesn't exist. If I want this wireless, it seems my options are massive headphones with ear-covering cups that make my ears a sweaty mess, or they don't have the padding that is seen here. I don't care about audiophile quality, I just want to lose the cable that keeps going to shit every couple of years.

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Do my trusty old Creative Aurvana LIVE!s count?
Just decided to take them for a spin for the first time in ages.
Man those are such amazing headphones for the cost of 50€ they lasted me like 10 years. If they didn't isolate like cups of yoghurt they'd be even better. The AHD-1100 was the same headphone but built better iirc. but back then I was still underage and wasn't able to spend the extra dosh :(

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>>/iemg/

>moondrop spaceship
Thanks user, looked cool so I grabbed a pair.

Seething nerd, cry some more :^)

Yeah sure, little girl. A cartoon really spooks you!
Nice one, fakey!

The fuck is a fakey? Take your pedo lingo elsewhere kiddy fucker.

HD800S vs Ananda. Who's got impressions?

I'm working in a pretty noisy place, looking for some closed or noise cancelling wireless headphones around £100-150.

Sony WH-CH700N for £94
Sennheiser HD 4.50 for £120

If not these, what's considered good in this price range?

Got a request for you anons:

>200euros but willing to spend some more for vastly better shit
>pastaland
>I'd say open but...
>... I'm a headset virgin, please be gentle sempai
>see above
>playing with friends or by myself

A friend of mine suggested a Sennheiser Game One, but if possible, I'd like something wireless.
Thanks in advance.

Impressions don't matter considering that one of them breaks the moment you breath on them. Do yourself a favor and never buy Hifiman EVER, those people mock their customers with their shitty QC because they know they can get away with it, the sheeple are going to buy it anyway after all. If you really want Hifiman, buy one used and ask the previous owner if it's older than 2 years because those are the ones that are less likely to break.

I suggest getting good wired headphones and a bluetooth adapter for 10-30$, you really don't need wireless *that* badly for home usage. Some opts are DT770 (with the short cable), HD58X and whatnot

M50xbt should be a good wireless headphone in your budget

Sennheiser doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to build quality either. HD800 cable self destructs with time, color chips off. Dunno about the 800s though.

Who else living SUMMIT FI life?

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Thank you, I'll give them a look. Wireless is just my personal preference, I don't like feeling the cable on my chest and I often get up to do some thing or another.

That's true but the HD800 is the exception while Hifiman has it across ALL of their Models even their Shangri-La. Yes there's the Snapheiser meme for the early 2000's 600 series but that was just the headband and not the drivers...it also got fixed long ago when Sennheisers changed their plastic recipe.

Get the HaaFee HD1 a rebrand of the discontinued RBH-HP2, currently 100€ on Amazon. Those baby's will blow your eardrums out with that sweet closed back beryllium bass

And don't forget the Modmic

For me it's not just that these things happened, but also how Sennheiser handled these cases.
>Oh your 1000€ headphones shit the bed and it's clearly our fault?
>Well that sucks, but you can get a 400€ replacement cable in our shop (which suffers from the same issues).

The headphones are very good though.

Oh and I didn't mean to come to Hifimans defense.
I hate every and all companies acting like that, it's why I love my Beyerdynamics.
>Oh you broke your cable, which was totally and only your own fault, on our 300€ headphone?
>Well send it in, we'll fix it, but you pay postage.

Also you can get replacement parts for everything decades after you bought the goods, which is a service I don't want to miss. It's a shame all their headphones sound so similar. If they started copying other brands signature sound I'd buy nothing but them.

Yeah they did shit the bed with the 800 and I have no intention of defending them in that regard but my HD580 are still alive after 24 years and the only things I had to replace were the pads. Is there a Hifiman that lived even half as much?

Everyone should take after Beyerdynamic in that regard, i absolutely agree with that.

I hope the subbass/infrabass on the iSine 20s will be good.

I ordered them today.

>4 * STAX
shit brother

Anyone got any good recommendations for a sound card?

>soundcard
don't

>DAC
do
Take the Topping DX3 Pro it has the measurements.

sup fags, I own the hd6xx and was thinking about grabbing headphones with a slight v shape and extended bass to contrast them with. looking at the dt770 pro right now as I was thinking of getting those instead of the hd6xx in the first place.
any other recommendations? also, if i do go with the dt770 pro, should i go 80 or 150 ohm?

Summit Fi life is best life, user

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whats up guys metal571 here

You must be either really loaded or really determined. I disagree on the whole STAX thing but nonetheless I really respect you.

Are you using an amp? No point not getting the 150 ohm version then. 80 ohm should sound fine too, though, so it's good if you just have your PC's amp.

Cool, thanks. Been slowly becoming more of an audiophile these days so I've been trying to see how to improve quality without going completely off the deep-end and spending thousands of dollars.

Disagree about what?

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why do you have so many small electric heaters, user?

gets cold here

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on the Summit

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So you went from senn to stax?

in a way

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Always go with the lowest Ohm user, I think you can get even lower with the impedance regarding the Beyerdynamic DT series.

Compare FR of the different impedance versions, there's virtually no benefit.
The drawback of having a high impedance headphone is that it requires more power to drive.

Well, adjust your philosophy to compare audio equipment objectively.
Take these subjective reviewers with a grain of salt. It's a gamble if what they tell is actually snake oil or not.

Pick a low impedance headphone and pick on the list of u/oratory1990 tested headphones, they include an EQ curve that follows the harman curve and a predicted user preference rating.
Impedance has to be relatively low but you don't need to go overboard.

An alternative is to install HeSuVi and just click on the profile for the headphone you own.
Be sure to set the "virtualization" to "none.wav" for now (check back on this later, it's cool for gaming but not for stereo music)

Take this:mega.nz/#F!3MFm1DrD!4GlU_vNtEeF148kZcQ05wA

This: audiosciencereview.com

github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

Sorry I forgot the other thing I'm getting high while writing this so I hope everything is still somewhat correct.
I think this will give you good fundamentals on objective shit and how audio objectively should be.

Oh no I got it.
reddit.com/user/oratory1990

I think they're a bit overrated from an objective standpoint.

have peopel here ever trusted and/or still trust objective 2 odac+amp combos or is there something better i can get for the price

Awesome! Thanks for the info dump.

good post

>Always go with the lowest Ohm user, I think you can get even lower with the impedance regarding the Beyerdynamic DT series.
I thought higher ohm variations on a model were supposed to give better accuracy due to the super thin wire used in the driver. Ofc if they're just raising the impedance by sticking resistors inline with the driver, it's dumb.

>sheeple
>blindly thinks every Hifiman product explodes
mhm

Why wouldn't you just get the DX3 Pro? It measures well and is in a convenient package and price.

Beware of customs though.

Sure, no problem. Be sure to to focus on the measurements of a certain headphone (Frequency Response can be solved by EQing(AutoEQ/HeSuVi, oratory1990), there are more measurements that matter but getting the right FR is the most important/impactful) rather than its looks.

I personally really like the looks of the DT770 but it's just not the right fit with my audio philosophy and goal.

I hope you're not ironic I'm slowly getting more sedated as I type this. I don't think you're being ironic though.


One important thing I want to get out that is that as far as I'm aware impedance doesn't affect the sound timbre nor the FR(at least in a noticable way), therefore higher impedance equals better logic is snake oil to me.

I hope I gave everyone a start at grasping audio fundamentals as objectively as possible, there's already way too much snake oil in the world of audio.

Also be sure to look at EqualizerAPO, HeSuVi is a GUI for EqualizerAPO, it literally runs of EqualizerAPO so to speak. You can also run EqualizerAPO on it's own that's what I'm doing right now, but once I get my iSine20s I will use the Usound preset on HeSuVi.

They just thin down the wire and thus also make it longer to make the air gap less between the wires. However this never really changes anything in a significant amount. Audiophiles on fucking YouTube of all places kinda jerk this shit off when a certain headphone they review has a high impedance, when it doesn't have a high impedance (like, high end headphones I'm talking about) it's not even a big deal to them they barely remark it.
Honestly I have yet to see a significant change in measurements on different impedance versions of headphones. The difference is somewhat visible on the graph but in the real world you wouldn't notice the difference with the same volume (charlimi

Buying used or new what would be a decent upgrade from the hd58x in the $200-450USD range for open backs? Something with a similar sound signature but with a little bit more bass.

>I hope you're not ironic I'm slowly getting more sedated as I type this. I don't think you're being ironic though.
no

that sounded ironic too, though. I never understood the appeal of overly high impedance / low sensitivity headphones either - just get speakers if that's what you're after

I'm a little confused about FR though - the reddit guy said they didn't all sound the same even after EQ, so how important is it really to get headphones that have a stock FR that matches your goal?

Speakers are usually fairly low impedance though, or it would take a very high voltage to get much sound out of them.

What effect does high impedance have on the FR graph? Obviously less sensitivity makes it less prone to a noisy amp, but it's not hard to find amps that have no audible noise with single-digit impedance IEMs.

Like, the wire coil in the drivers I meant, not the audio cable.
Go find the difference in actual measurements instead of some SBAF jerking YouTuber.
I enjoy Zeos' but often disagree with his opinion and philosophy because it's just not objective.

He still uses that Micca Origen DAC thing despite it being measured the lowest quality in audiosciencereview.com
Though I would agree that the difference between DACs in practice is very low above a certain price tier.

Just get the DX3 Pro though maybe MX3 if you're on a budget and trust topping as a brand (maybe there are already measurements available on the MX3 let me check
audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-mx3-dac-amp.7312/
Yeah no don't buy that see the "conclusion" thingy

Just get the DX3 Pro beware of import charges if you're in EU or an importchargecuckcountry.

>dance / low sensitivity headphones either - just get speakers if that's what you're after
That last bit doesn't make a lot of sense.
Speakers really differ from headphones. I would choose a well equalized headphone over a speaker setup for various reasons, mostly privacy though desu andd it not being perfect like ocd

Yes, because it isn't *as* simple as just inverting the error curve to get the target response, he also states that the difference is *minimal* there are still technical differences, I'm a bit tired but if you google + "innerfidelity" and click the pdf that pops up you still have the THD+Noise and the square wave, the phase measurements (innerfidelity's pdfs don't include a lot of measurements but imo these are one of the more important ones

oh I'm hitting charlimit again soon.

Well then user, what are you listening with then?

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thanks user

SR-507 worth it or should I just aim for the top and get an L700? Lambda only.

If you really don't believe me other than the fact he states the difference is very minimal. It's just not *all* about FR but it's definitely hands down the most important factor in getting a headphone to sound good.

In oratory1990s graphs you can see they even based a predicted preference score based pure off how far it deviates from the Harman curve.

>What effect does high impedance have on the FR graph?
Nothing interesting really, it'll change a bit at unpredictable point. Google the DT770 models with 32 Ohm, 80 Ohm, 150 Ohm and 250 Ohm and compare the objective measurements yourself.

>Obviously less sensitivity makes it less prone to a noisy amp
Yeah, that's not really how that works because the overall volume is just lower the noise to actual music ratio would stay the same in a theoretically perfect amplifier.
The amplifier output impedance I think (note that I'm still getting a bit high I'm definitely 100% sober) also affects FR (in a way that you don't want to oppsed to equalization) however with the Topping DX3 Pro has 1 or 2 Ohms of impedance from the top of my dome.

>single digit impedance
Please keep in mind that impedance in the single digits is really uncommon but yes I agree.
But just look at the Topping DX3 Pro measurements and judge the price performance for yourself, don't trust some random stranger on Jow Forums and shit go look at the objective measurements yourself and Amirs subjective price performance conclusion.

V1 which is the one I have had some units dying(minimal amount I think), Topping resolved that issue with the V2 this could affect measurements indeed but it most likely doesn't.

I'm done here I think I want to drink some water.

I feel like I gave you guys a good start.

en.goldenears.net/11302
The difference especially with the 600 Ohm ones are really not as little as you make them out to be.

If you like the DT880 250 ohm you'll like the 600 ohm one and vice versa, but there is a difference and it isn't as miniscule.

I'll take a look I can't keep discussing this forever though I still need to make a drawing today. Well a sketch at least.

Unless you are curious I would just go straight to the 700 and never look back.

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>due to the super thin wire used in the driver.
>The drawback of having a high impedance headphone is that it requires more power to drive.
The equation of motion for a coil is B*L*current.
BL is scaled up by the use of more turns of the voice coil. The wire is thinner and much longer as well.
Inductance and back-EMF are increased but are held proportionately the same. The motor strength factor, (BL^2)/Resistance, is more or less the same, meaning that the real power use, the efficiency, is similar enough. What is changed is the voltage required to create a given power dissipation over the load, which is increased with higher impedance, sensitivity loss.
>impedance doesn't affect the sound timbre nor the FR
Not in the sense that picking thinner wire and filling the same gap would do anything other than general sensitivity change. Impedance is a product of the motor electrical properties(resistance, complex inductance) linked to the mechanical (mass/viscoelasticity/fluid losses/standing waves) by BL.
>make the air gap less between the wires
This has more to do with the shape of the wire, such as using a flat wire instead of a rounded winding.

Here, they a comparison right here that they made themselves.
According to the Jakop guy or whatever he's called from AutoEQ he doesn't even list them for his presets.

But alright, let's say they used the right measuring equipment.

As you can see these aren't 3 wildly different FRs, sure, more than I remembered it to be but these won't sound 3 completely different headphones. Note that goldenears has its own propretiary curve.
let me check
I can't find them anymore

>The drawback of having a high impedance headphone is that it requires more power to drive.
The equation of motion for a coil is B*L*current.
BL is scaled up by the use of more turns of the voice coil. The wire is thinner and much longer as well.
Inductance and back-EMF are increased but are held proportionately the same. The motor strength factor, (BL^2)/Resistance, is more or less the same, meaning that the real power use, the efficiency, is similar enough. What is changed is the voltage required to create a given power dissipation over the load, which is increased with higher impedance, sensitivity loss.
>impedance doesn't affect the sound timbre nor the FR
Not in the sense that picking thinner wire and filling the same gap would do anything other than general sensitivity change. Impedance is a product of the motor electrical properties(resistance, complex inductance) linked to the mechanical (mass/viscoelasticity/fluid losses/standing waves) by BL.

great I didn't even know all this stuff but due to the increased resistance oh, that resistance gets converted into movement I think/

>make the air gap less between the wires
>This has more to do with the shape of the wire, such as using a flat wire instead of a rounded winding.
I've never heard of a headphone that uses flat wiring for the coils, like ever.

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I'm not the dude that is asking about them because he's interested in buying them btw. I'm just a guy who wanted to give you some kind of input on why the difference in ohm isn't that trivial.
I mean at 6khz there's a difference of nearly 10db. The treble is pronounced on either headphone and like I said, if you like one you'll most likely like the other, but there's a difference.

If you're interested in buying one I'd just recommend trying them out and sending them back to amazon. It's a dick move, but amazon are dicks too, so who cares.

Does anybody have a recommendation for bluetooth iem?

Oh, I actually hoped it was him because that meant he just doesn't believe anyone blindly and actually looks at the measurements that's not something most people actually do.

Pic related zooms in on what you're talking about, the highs are overall quite a bit recessed from the other ones. You're using different data and I can't really find those Innerfidelity pdfs I was referring to from my mind.

I can't find the price of that one 1 2 3quickly but if I wanted the highs a bit recessed like that I would install EQAPO and just recess them there a bit like that.
According to these measurements my memory was partly at fault for remembering the actual difference if these things are also present in the Innerfidelity pdfs.

I would take EQAPO with the 32 (or 80 if that's the lowest I think they also made a 32 one but I might be wrong) Ohm version and recess the highs a bit if I liked the stock DT880 600 Ohm sound, the timbre also indeed differs a bit and more than I'd imagine but I doubt that difference'll be noticable in the real world much however I would EQAPO and enjoy the ability to also play the headphones from my phone something you won't be able to do with the 600 ohm version.

>If you're interested in buying one I'd just recommend trying them out and sending them back to amazon. It's a dick move, but amazon are dicks too, so who cares.
How's that a dick move that's what I'm doing with my online purchase that I ordered today.
That's not really a dick move if you ask me.
In a brick-and-mortar store they have demo models too, and it is Amazons choice to just auction off opened stuff.
However, Amazon is a multibillion dollar corporation and these corportations aren't stupid this is probably for some arcane reason the most cost effective way of dealing with returned items for them.

I wouldn't really pity Jeff Bezos as he's literally the most wealthy human on earth right now I think. I don't hate him but I wouldn
oh charlimit.

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>>>>>>/iemg/
can help you better with that.
I personally don't have any recommendations as I don't fuck with Bluetooth.
Go ask them what a good gymbud is, you'll have a better chance there but most people there jerk off the Moondrop Crescent and the Tin T2s as far as I can remember, oh wait those aren't Bluetooth.

Sorry user my bad but you should ask there.

ah, i couldn't find that general. thought it was listed as /ieg/
my bad

Forgot to say
Go to /u/oratory1990
Find all the bluetooth IEMs

Check which one has the highest predicted user preference rating

There is your most objective answer, at least if those research papers from Sean Olive are right.

Check my new post.

>I wouldn't really pity Jeff Bezos as he's literally the most wealthy human on earth right now I think.
Exactly. But I wouldn't order and send back on purpose on some other platform of some dude just selling some hifi-equipment beside his actual job.

All of what you said is true if you want to use your headphones on a mobile device like a smartphone, or if you don't want to spend the extra dosh on some good khv. The lower ohm variants are certainly more versatile and if you can actually hear a difference between the 32 ohm and 600 ohm version in everday use is impossible to debate. Yet the AH-D2000, 5000 and 7000 were all the same headphones (iirc.) with only the cups being different, having miniscule effects on the frequency response and people payed hundreds of dollars for a difference slighter than between the 32 and 600 ohms version.

We audiofools truely are a difficult crowd.

>We audiofools truely are a difficult crowd.
Let's strave not to be audiofools and actually look at measurements then :^)

On that note today I ordered the iSine 20 and it is the most expensive of the iSine family despite there being negligible difference im actiual sound. But my intent is to send them back anyway and buy a second hand pair of iSine 10s anyway. The only thing I'm worried about is the unit to unit variance in sound quality between iSine 10s which isn't the case with the iSine 20s according to some leddit user, but from my own thinking I doubt this is true to be honest. What reason would there be for them to differ so heavily as that one guy says when there's a company behind that has been in the industry for years who specializes in planar headphones, I doubt they would have QC unit to unit variance issues.

But it does make me doubt the iSine 10 a bit, it speaks to the reptile brain.

If you take several headphones off a production line, there are bound to be differences, especially once seated on a dummy head.
>resistance gets converted into movement
The Lorentz Force as applied to motor coils is:
>F=B*L*I
representing force, magnetic field strength, wire length, and electric current. Resistance does not show up. Nor does it appear in the converse expression:
>EMF = B*L*v̂
This links the velocity of the driver to EMF, the voltage. Velocity is normally maximized at the bass resonance in headphones. The existence of resistance is implicit but the physical expressions do not directly relate.

(BL^2)/Re normalizes the electromechanical coupling of motion and electricity independent of the nominal impedance, whether it is a 16-ohm or 600-ohm nominal driver.

Thanks for the explanation user I'm a bit too high for this but I'm definitely thinking of picking up the hobby of studying maths & sciences & biology and all that shit to keep my intelligence to a standard.

I forgot most physics formulas by now and I'm getting high this is too hard to comprehend right now.
But thanks for clearing that up I guess.

>If you take several headphones off a production line, there are bound to be differences, especially once seated on a dummy head.
I doubt this especially if they're seated on the same position precisely.
But it could be true

>But it does make me doubt the iSine 10 a bit, it speaks to the reptile brain.
Yeah, what we expect of things has way too much of an influence on how we perceive them and there are way too many weirdos out there that put some funny ideas into our head.
Wish I could say something about audeze in general, but I'm way too poor to order all kinds of exotic headphones, gotta stick with what I have for now. There are so many exotic headphones/inears out there I'd like to try, no matter how much money I earned, I'd be broke in a year if I was given free rein.

Well, the worrying part was said he measured them else I would've completely discarded that information.

Just buy from a large audio company or amazon and send them back if you really want to try them.
In the EU you have statury right of withdrawal with online purchases within 14 days, and it's not like when you return something shops won't be able to sell it again to someone, I think that's pretty much bullshit.

However with the iSine 10 I'm trying to get the perfect headphone with a perfectly flat response (from Harman curve) that has very low distortion at high volumes especially in the lows.

So I'm not interested in trying all types of headphone sounds I just strive for the perfect/near perfect one.

I also bought a Sony MDR-7506 to try out and EQ it to see how the response to EQing differs and how they fare in gun sounds and explosions and piano music and overall timbre difference in for example an acoustic guitar.

yeah, I have the liquid spark, should be plenty to drive if I did the math right.
what are the pros/cons of the 150 v 80?

>oh wait those aren't Bluetooth
If they have 2pin or MMCX removable cables you can just add a Bluetooth cable and they are.

*250

I didn't know that link that product Bluetooth adapter please I might need it when I go gymming again when I'm no longer depressed and shit.

But maybe I don't need it at all.

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Why does Grado never get any love?

I use a normal cable that I had cut short for use with my old Clip+, plugged into an Earstudio ES100, which clips onto a shirt collar.

Kinda trash headphones in my opinion my dad really likes them for some reason, probably because of marketing.

> Budget: 50$, preferably less
> Location: Massachussets
> Open/closed: Earphones so N/A
> Past headphones: I've owned a bunch of semi-cheap earbuds before, and not really liked most of them because of awful, really noticeable microphonics. Apple earpods somehow avoid this problem.
> Sound Preferences: none really, I just hate microphonics. Noticeable microphonics are a deal breaker for me, honestly.
> Intended Use: Working out, running, general portable use.
Thanks for any help.

I'm inclined to jump on the meme train and recommend Tin T2 for that price range. Pretty much anything will be basically free of microphonics if you put the wire behind your ear, over the top, then down from the front (the way performers wear IEMs on stage). This also makes them stay in much better.

did you like never try wearing the cables over your ears

why the fuck is it that every used th-x00 i see for sale has the cup broken off from the headband? what the fuck?

Oh, also note that T2 doesn't have a ton of bass.

I didn't think to do this until I got a pair of Shures that forced me to years ago. Now I do it even with cheapo earphones like these $9 Sony MDR-EX14AP I got as a throwaway workout / rainy day / stick one side in for a phone call. I can definitely recommend them for the price. Detail is lacking compared to expensive IEMs and instruments tend to blend together more, but it has a pleasant sound signature with bass, mids and highs all in reasonable amounts, and without muddy, shouty or shrill peaks.

Gonna be beyer for me

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Are the DT 1990 PRO semi open?

Where can I find up-to-date benchmarks of noise-cancelling headphones, ie how many dB of noise they suppress?

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