Whats Jow Forumss take on this? Protonmail Israeli/Mossad honeypot?
“In April 2019, at the request of the Swiss judiciary in a case of clear criminal conduct, we enabled IP logging against a specific user account which is engaged in illegal activities which contravene Swiss law. Pursuant to Swiss law, the user in question will also be notified and afforded the opportunity to defend against this in court before the data can be used in criminal proceedings.“ Walder said that Steiger has misunderstood his speech, but the lawyer believes that the situation is exactly the one he described in the post.
ProtonMail denied Steiger’s claims and published a post to clarify that it only supports authorities when presented by an order from a Swiss court or prosecutor.
“ProtonMail does not voluntarily offer assistance as alleged. We only do so when ordered by a Swiss court or prosecutor, as we are obligated to follow the law in all criminal cases. Furthermore, ProtonMail’s end-to-end encryption means we cannot be forced by a court to provide unencrypted message contents.” reads the blog post.
“ProtonMail cannot be used for any purposes that are illegal under Swiss law. Not only is this against our terms and conditions, we are also obligated by law to assist police investigations in criminal cases. However, the claim that we do this voluntarily is entirely false.”
Proton Mail is a scam because even if it was secure if you send an email to someone else who doesn't use Proton Mail (IE everybody) the glowies will just intercept it at the other end. If you wanted to have secure messaging to someone else there is a lot better ways than email.
>pajeet >reading Nah you are good at copy-pasting.
Chase Ramirez
But what if it's Hillary's email
Thomas Morris
The fact that Protonmail isn't illegal has been common knowledge since their inception. This is literally nothing. Also this is just IP addresses with timestamps. With a VPN it is literally just them giving timestamps.
Bentley Rodriguez
So, they logged the IP that was used to access a particular account? If only there were some kind of protection against that, some kind of virtual private network. Oh well, we can dream. Seriously, though, PM isn’t doing anything your ISP wouldn’t be doing, and they don’t have access to the content of your emails (unless it’s been intercepted like suggested.
Christopher James
>IP adresss
So basically Jow Forums stabs you every post why are you here?
Grayson Powell
>Former NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers joined the Israeli think tank in October 2018
What in the actual FUCK? WHAT?
Jacob Thompson
How can people use this crap after it was established that they can fuck you up whenever they want?
>but protonmail would never do something so evil, companies never do that!
Jow Forums has never claimed to be about privacy you fucking imbecile.
Nolan Campbell
And getting your job.
Jack Bailey
Did you not even read that post? It's not "whenever you want," it has to be court-ordered. It's the same way in the fucking United States. And in Switzerland they have a duty to inform you that such an order was issued--in the US, they do not.
John Morales
Because companies are known for always complying with the law and never handing their information via other channels.
Ethan Rivera
>Protonmeme routes your mail through Israel >Protonmeme rats their users to the police, but you can trust them because they only do it for good reasons ;) >Protonmeme doesn't support FOSS clients
Hunter Turner
imagine falling for these security as a service memes
Brayden Fisher
>IP logging Yeah, any website can do that and they can't refuse to do so because this type of data can't be encrypted. Your email box is still encrypted, they can't read it and can't reveal its contents. They also never claimed end to end encryption to other servers like some anons are saying, only ProtonMail to ProtonMail.
Andrew Cruz
test
Liam Carter
but we ananimoose
Nathan Cook
what do you guys send/receive that makes you so schizophrenic about this shit anyways? not even glowing. i'm all about privacy in principle and i think there are plenty of things which are legal but worth keeping private. at the same time, some legally grey or illegal things like torrenting are enforced against pretty leniently and so don't even require you to be that private. meanwhile these threads are always created and maintained by spergs who are afraid that the government is going to come whack them. i think we're still pretty far from full Orwell in terms of legislation. if you're suspected of something so serious that the government needs to court order your encrypted email service to view your shit isn't that a reasonable consequence of you A) engaging in illegal activities and B) fucking up and getting caught? i genuinely want to know. according to my brainlet-tier understanding of this shit the advantage of using an encrypted email service like protonmail isn't that it makes you invulnerable to the law but probably makes you a lot less susceptible to private attacks i.e. someone hacking your shit. if the point here is just >waaaaa protonmail doesn't enable my criminal lifestyle even though it says it's ENCRYPTED!!! you're a fucking dumbass. what kind commercial entity would shoot themselves in the foot like that?
Jackson Stewart
>we enabled IP logging against a specific user account which is engaged in illegal activities OP is a fag
Gabriel Ross
how many times are you going to spam this bullshit around?
Josiah Ramirez
Things that are perfectly legal today can be illegal tomorrow.
Joshua Cook
seethe, proton shill
Wyatt Gutierrez
You can send email securely to outside parties by sending them links to an encrypted vault (the reply securely feature). You have to give them a password to get into the vault of course, but it does allow you to communicate securely after exchanging the one key and link.
Adrian Thomas
The feds probably were emailing the guy on his protonmail account and once he said or did something illegal they had all they needed to force PM to hand over his info. They just had to ask which IP was using "[email protected]"
Colton Edwards
Isn’t all email insecure anyways because it wasn’t designed at all with privacy in mind? Would a better way to maintain privacy to be just to use something actually privacy oriented for sensitive communications?
Alexander Clark
>ITT: people unironically thinking email services should endorse criminals because muh privacy
Just use end to end encryption and remove S/MIME support.
James White
yep and then they get up logs from the VPN. even no log services have their own isps or hosters who do log and correlating the traffic is easier than you think.
Noah Hernandez
regardless of current legality, anyone who does shit on the legal "cutting edge" of what could be outlawed knows or at least suspects that what they are doing is unjust
Aaron Foster
Protonmail, while preferable to Gmail, has never been a good option in regards to privacy. I would rate them above cock.li, as there is at least some encryption, but worse than any other "private" email company. Javascript is inherently insecure to begin with. Now, you can work around this by using their mobile apps or Mail Bridge (if you pay them $40 per year), but I challenge anyone to turn on 2FA without using JavaScript. You literally can't. This is why Tutanota is better, although still not a great option due to JavaScript even being an option.
Aaron Ramirez
>trusting the unwashed masses to continue to elect good™ officials Last time it was gypsies, homos, cripples, downies and hooknoses. How about you ponder who's getting sorted out next time?
Kevin Russell
Add: It's strikingly amusing how certain people will will cry and howl about Trump being a crazy dictator, the police being "in authority to kill a minority", etc, but then turn around and say that (1) "no civilian NEEDS a firearm" and (2) "nothing to hide, nothing to fear".
Really grinds my gears how the people who seem to have the highest stake in a properly checked government are also the ones doing everything possible to completely uncheck it. I mean, i'm going to be fine when shit goes down, i'm young, male, blonde, blue-eyed, able, ethically native to my home country and hetero. All of you degenerate faggots are the ones who have every amenity and safety to lose, not me.
>private >email Choose one. I use Protonmail just because it's free and not Gmail.
Aiden Ross
this
Alexander Smith
based
William Gutierrez
I dont care
Gavin Cook
> wordpress ugghh. not even trying, are you? >Whats Jow Forumss take on this? Protonmail Israeli/Mossad honeypot? > ProtonMail denied Steiger’s claims and published a post to clarify that it only supports authorities when presented by an order from a Swiss court or prosecutor. and they state as much in their terms of service. you could always use a vpn. >> "ProtonMail threatens to take legal action for defamation pursuant to art. 174 of the Swiss Criminal Code" and I hope they do. > i have no idea how to use gpg (nor do my contacts) > i have no idea about how sending mail to other protonmail users is encrypted fuck off, moron. yeah, handing over IP logs via a court order means it's compromised, according to the lame and sad fucking idiots of this board. >some kind of virtual private network. Oh well, we can dream. wow. this "VPN" sounds magical! never heard of this before! lmao.
Jason White
> Protonmail, while preferable to Gmail, has never been a good option in regards to privacy. > because it uses javascript hello, FBI. > as there is at least some encryption all mail sent between protonmail users is encrypted, all of your mailboxes are encrypted. you? just a sad compulsive lying moron. > cock.li yeah i knew we'd get to this. go shill your fucking cancer elsewhere, mr. police officer.
Tyler Hughes
Protonmail claims, "ProtonMail does not require any personally identifiable information to register." This is a lie. If you try to sign up using Tor or a VPN, they require you to give them a phone number to send an SMS message, monetary donation (requiring your financial information), or another email address. However, they won't allow all email providers. It seems many of the private emails, like RiseUp, Criptext, and Tutanota, give me a big red box that says, "Email verification temporarily disabled for this domain. Please try another verification method." So there's a lie about privacy (and that's just the tip of PM's penis violating you - there's more).
>all mail sent between protonmail users is encrypted, all of your mailboxes are encrypted. you? just a sad compulsive lying moron.
The way their "end to end" encryption works is by generating the encryption keys while you sign up - using your already existing keys is not allowed and ProtonMail must store the generated private key (archive) for PGP to work. Since the whole encryption process is done by JavaScript in the browser, nothing prevents them from sending you backdoored JS. Furthermore if you are wanting to send a PGP message to a non PM account, you have to upload the recipients' public PGP keys to ProtonMail if you want to use them.
Also, according to researchers, ProtonMail's encryption contains serious shortcomings. Source: eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf
Their privacy policy is filled with issues, too. I could go past the character limit explaining all the problems, but I'll limit it to just one huge issue: "Active accounts will have data retained indefinitely." So what data do they retain? Sender and recipient email addresses, the IP address incoming messages originated from, message subject, and message sent and received times... Number of messages sent, amount of storage space used, total number of messages, last login time. Shall I continue?
> "ProtonMail does not require any personally identifiable information to register." This is a lie. I signed up via VPN with no issues at all. you are the one that is lying. so.. shut the fuck up. > Since the whole encryption process is done by JavaScript in the browser, nothing prevents them from sending you backdoored JS considering the service is using https, are you trying to suggest that protonmail or someone else can break this encryption to then inject a new js script into the webmail page? you are seriously fucking retarded, friend. >>Also, according to researchers, ProtonMail's encryption contains serious shortcomings. Source: eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf interesting read, lots of assumptions and "scenarios" that are easily discarded into the trash >I could go past the character limit explaining all the problems i don't think anybody, including myself, want to read the pretentious brainfarts from a fucking moron that keeps repeating what's already known: > the IP address incoming messages originated from, message subject, and message sent and received times... Number of messages sent, amount of storage space used, total number of messages, last login time that's standard practice for all services, you stupid cunt.
John Morgan
>I signed up via VPN with no issues at all. you are the one that is lying. so.. shut the fuck up. Right. You just have to use an approved email domain, a cell phone number, or your financial info. >considering the service is using https, are you trying to suggest that protonmail or someone else can break this encryption to then inject a new js script into the webmail page? They can break the encryption for literally everyone simply by modifying the javascript for the login page. >interesting read, lots of assumptions and "scenarios" that are easily discarded into the trash. And yet you didn't refute them. Odd. >that's standard practice for all services, you stupid cunt. Really? tutanota.com/privacy/ >In order to maintain email server operations, for error diagnosis and for prevention of abuse, mail server logs are stored max. 7 days. These logs contain sender and recipient email addresses and time of connection but no customer IP addresses. No IP addresses. No message subject. No sent/received times. Max storage of 7 days (rather than PM's retention of INDEFINITELY). And, on top of that, unlike PM, Tutanota does not require you to use their javascript-based web site for anything. You can do it all through their phone apps, including setting up 2FA, which is outright impossible with Protonmail.
It's almost like what I claimed earlier is true: While Tutanota has serious problems due to Javascript, it's still better than Protonmail. Stopped being biased, and see PM's problems for what they are, and that there are much better options.
Jayden Ross
shut up shill
Nathan Collins
Hahahaha oh c'mon American is Israel's bitch and has been for more than 50 years. Your military routinely gets milked for Israel's personal benefit and the NSA is just Israel's outsourced code shop. Sorry
Carter Flores
Every single service that offers to do the encryption for you are basically government honeypots. This includes Cloudflare, Letsencrypt, Protonmail, etc.
Even if they were not initially designed as honeypots.
Matthew Sullivan
You get what you pay for
Henry Bailey
>ProtonMail does not voluntarily offer assistance as alleged. We only do so when ordered by a Swiss court or prosecutor Protonmail is known to delete paying customers account based on accusation of some sjw on twitter, so this is obvious lie as there was no court order, much less any action of prosecution against said customer.
Ive been able to sign up with disposable email via vpn (not tor), I had to go through like 10 services before I found one that wasnt blocked by protonmail.
Imho, use email for normie stuff, for anything else use end to end encrypted messengers.
