Working for an American startup

If you're good (and have coding experience), American companies will happily scoop you up once you've picked up a few years of work experience, especially if you specialise in a very in-demand aspect of CS.

He's here, he knows he should be pissing his expendable income away on shitcoins.

I guess the best thing I can do if I do take the "boring" job is to continue updating my Github with new projects and keep maintaining the one they found interesting. I have to admit that I'm a bit more pessimistic than you are.

In my own country, these jobs are kinda rare, so even the "boring" one does cool stuff, but since they are rare they get away with doing it in an backwards kind off way, if you understand what I mean.

I wouldn't recommend taking the startup offer if the pay is not good upfront. The problem with being a foreigner and working in America (once you relocate) is that your H1B visa is directly tied to your job position. You can't just switch jobs unless the new job is also willing to sponsor your visa, which makes things a lot trickier. Most startups fail, so you could be in a situation where the company folds and you desperately try to find a job in order to stay in the country. If it was a big tech firm like Google or Facebook then I'd say take it immediately, but if it's just a startup I don't think it's worth the risk.

Its cool cuz I mean you didn't know...but now you do cuz I told you.

So kindly fuck off back to le reddit where you came from and let the real autists and oldfags further delude ourselves. Okay??

Okay.

Well, I'm not afraid of having to go back. I have also estimated the minimum salary I'm willing to take for relocating (it must be at least $100k, but preferrably $120k).

But of course, I do burn burn a bridge with the first company if I say no to their offer. So if I eventually have to go back, I don't think they will hire me.

Would it really be burning a bridge? I guess the work culture is different. Have you applied to any big American tech companies, or set your Linkedin account to target them for recruitment?

In general I think you should take the first offer, get several years of good experience, and then leverage that into a stable American position. Tech is not quite the gold rush it used to be, so I think you're better off taking things slow.

Google : note written by Einstein sold for 1.7 million dollars.
What is written on it is your answer.

He looks like a real life version of freakazoid

Don't underestimate your looming PhD OP. The boring option seems to provide a higher probability that you'll finish this thing.
Only after you're complete free I personally would go after riskier endeavours.

>Would it really be burning a bridge? I guess the work culture is different.
Usually no, but this is a small company and the boss tends to take things a bit personal. After all, I have collaborated with them for 3 years during my PhD, so I think they kind off expect me joining their ranks at this point.

>Have you applied to any big American tech companies, or set your Linkedin account to target them for recruitment?
After my masters, I had a round of applying and interviewing for Google and Microsoft, but their recruiters were looking for people with web skills (which is not what I want or what I am good at). I guess I could pay for premium linkedin and target my profile a bit more.

>In general I think you should take the first offer, get several years of good experience, and then leverage that into a stable American position
I appreciate this advice, and honestly I'm a bit skeptical about rushing into things without at least a couple of months of economic runway.

>Don't underestimate your looming PhD OP. The boring option seems to provide a higher probability that you'll finish this thing.
Indeed it does.

>Only after you're complete free I personally would go after riskier endeavours.
I'm only worried that this might be the one shot I get at this, but maybe I'm being overly pessimistic. My worries is that I will rot away at the "boring" job and never learn anything new or get to work abroad and see the world.

Shit is 1.5 or 1.6. My point still stands.

With PhD you'll quadruple those offers in the future.

First option is a no-brainer.

It's not just Google and Microsoft. For instance, I used to know a guy who does backend web stuff at Bloomberg in NYC, and he got above 110k USD starting with a Bachelors. If you aren't obsessed with being on the absolute cutting edge of computer science, there are plenty of good positions out there.

If you end up working for a smaller Swedish company it does make the transition harder because you'll probably need to get into a big Swedish tech firm first, depending on how your Github looks and all that.

The startup is definitely not your only shot, in fact, it's not that nice a shot in the first place.

Thanks anons, I'm starting feel peace at mind.

For what it's worth: I had a really difficult time completing my masters (due to a bunch of personal and economical reasons), so when I started doing a PhD I made a promise to myself to not let that get in the way of doing what I really want. If this had been a year or so ago, I would easily have dropped out and gone for the startup, but now I'm so close to finishing so it would feel like a massive waste to not just put in the little effort that is required.

Take the first job and work for two years. Then switch to another job making 25% more then work for two years, repeat.

If you want to join a startup go there after a couple years when you already have a financial cushion and it will be easier to find another job if you need to make a quick exit.

>Take the first job and work for two years. Then switch to another job making 25% more then work for two years, repeat.
Using this approach, it would take me at least 8 years to get to $120k, by which time I will be 40 and most likely settled down.

The main problem is that there aren't that many jobs around doing the kind of things I've specialized in, in my country. This is partly why I want to get a visa, the american market is infinitely bigger than the small market in my country.

>If you want to join a startup go there after a couple years when you already have a financial cushion and it will be easier to find another job if you need to make a quick exit.
I completely agree with this though.

OP, my opinion is take the American job. You will still be able to maintain your quality of life and not stress about the visa initially because you will be working remotely. If you think the company is not worth it / not gonna make it, just keep procrastinating about moving there. It will honestly be a better situation to get your dissertation done because you won’t have the distraction of commuting into work and dealing with the social situations that new workmates generally causes.

I don’t know if you’ve really worked before in the workplace because you’re still in school, but your work mates largely become your friend group and if you want to be successful at the work place you end up spending a bunch of time with them outside of work is my point.

The American company means you’ll get paid way more and have less time commitment and don’t have to move anywhere. I also don’t know what you mean about the shitty health coverage. 1) that doesn’t matter to you right now because you’re not moving, and 2) American healthcare is actually super excellent in terms of the care you get, it’s just expensive. If your company pays for a good plan then you’re not paying shit and have excellent care.

Brit bongs and Kangaroo boys talk about their great healthcare because it’s free but the care is actually shit. Have lived in Australia and am very close with UK peeps and let me tell you free does not mean good. Terrible waiting lists for important procedures, overcrowded hospitals, etc. now I’m sure Scandinavia is much better than that, but my point is that American health care has none of those things. If you have good insurance that you don’t pay for then you’re all set.

Also the most important point is that the American company is very likely to give you good stock options. Depending on how early you are, that could mean up to 1%. It may seem like a long shot, but if that company is ever valued at $1 billion then your 1% that took you likely four years to earn is now worth $10 million. Try and factor in a reasonable expectation of what they could be worth by the end of your options vesting period and add that to your overall estimated compensation package.

Someone made a point that if you do move to the US and the company goes under you’ll be desperately trying to find a job. The dev job market in San Francisco is so hot right now it’s not uncommon to find a job in a week or two. Especially for a PhD that has work experience. And even if you do want to move back to Scandinavia, you’ll have the experience of what it’s like working at the fancy American startup.

I don’t know man, everything is pointing toward doing the startup if I was in your position. Maybe I’m just biased because I’m in that world right now, but it’s pretty great. That and great weather, tons of stuff to do. If you like sailing it’s pretty much the best here. And we have excellent skiing nearby, usually for six months. Great hiking and camping and food and other stuff too.

Just my opinion.

I'd agree with you 100% if it wasn't a startup. It's a risk, and since startups are what they are he probably needs some more experience in order to avoid getting burned if it folds. Hell, the thing could already be an unstable mess just waiting to tip over.

>Using this approach, it would take me at least 8 years to get to $120

They're only offering you 50k a year? That's like a postdoc stipend in the US.

>It will honestly be a better situation to get your dissertation done because you won’t have the distraction of commuting into work and dealing with the social situations that new workmates generally causes.
>I don’t know if you’ve really worked before in the workplace because you’re still in school, but your work mates largely become your friend group and if you want to be successful at the work place you end up spending a bunch of time with them outside of work is my point.
I worked full-time before doing a PhD, and I've worked very closely with the "boring" company, so I know everyone and now what kind of social settings there will be. The commute is not long at all, it's 20 minutes by bus or 40 minutes by bike.

As for "shit healthcare", I'm actually not so concerned about that. But I do get more benefits from the Scandinavian country, such as mandatory travel insurance and damage insurance and stuff like this.

>Also the most important point is that the American company is very likely to give you good stock options
Yes, they have confirmed this.

>The dev job market in San Francisco is so hot right now it’s not uncommon to find a job in a week or two. Especially for a PhD that has work experience
Well, the problem is that I'm unsure that I will complete, because I'm not sure what workload is expected from me.

>The main problem is that there aren't that many jobs around doing the kind of things I've specialized in, in my country.
Can you tell us more about your niche you specialized in? I'm a dev fag myself, so you can go into details if you want to.

Firstly, congrats OP. The two options are a little divergent and my advice is if you want to finish your PhD, take the Scandinavian job.

American startup culture is quite fun but also quite draining. You'll be expected to do a lot of different types of work. You'll wear a lot of hats. When their website goes down at 4am, you'll have to wake up to fix it. Youll be responsible for a LOT of business related thingsa. When you join a startup, you are basically saying 'I am willing to devote the next N years to this company, if it becomes successful, I will become quite rich' but you need to pour your heart and soul into it. This type of life is very fun imo and I highly encourage you to try it but it sounds like you want a little more stability right now.

Ultimately both are good choices and it's up to you.

I was exaggerating a bit, and of course I haven't tried negotiating yet, but median developer salary is ~60-70k where I live, which is why a 100-120k job in the US is very tempting.

I kind of don't want to go into too many details if they are lurking, but it's system programming and working with device and IO virtualization.

Thanks user.

FIRST ONE
t. american

$120k in San Francisco or NYC doesn't go as far as you would think. Taxes are high, and rent is insane - 3000 a month for a 1 bedroom, for instance. It's really the stuff that's a few steps above 120k starting that makes it worth it.

>$120k in San Francisco or NYC doesn't go as far as you would think
It's neither of those locations. I'm afraid to be more specific, in case someone is lurking, but I've checked around, a 1 bedroom or studio is 1500-1800 a month in relatively close proximity to the offices.

Sounds like Seattle, which as I recall is the best city for tech salaries after factoring in taxes and rent. If you're wavering, I suggest you dig a little deeper into the company. Research the individual founders, do independent research on the tech, and generally try to figure out if it'll last. But at all costs, finish your PhD in a timely manner. It'll do you wonders of good.

do PhDs even matter in CS? I'd ask ...

>I suggest you dig a little deeper into the company. Research the individual founders, do independent research on the tech, and generally try to figure out if it'll last.
Yeah, the problem is that all I find are some techcrunch articles about how they have ensured venture capital or whatnot.

>Research the individual founders, do independent research on the tech
They look like people with 15-20 years experience with similar stuff from a large US vendor, but I will for sure ask more about the tech they use.

>But at all costs, finish your PhD in a timely manner. It'll do you wonders of good.
Thanks. I'm starting to lean more towards going the safe route here, but I'm still open for more input.

Depends on the field you're in and where you live. As a scandinavian competing for american jobs, it's not so much the PhD itself but rather that I have been able to complete projects as part of my PhD that would be completely uninteresting to regional developer companies that just want some Java or C# monkey.

Also, I started asking Jow Forums but (as usual) they know fuck-all about actual jobs and only care about consumer electronics.

Figure out who is giving them venture capital. Good VCs will probably pressure the company to sell itself to a big tech company for instant returns, and if you're valuable you end up working for that big company as part of the deal - it's how large tech companies stay "fresh" with these "transfusions" of startup acquisitions. If they have 15-20 years experience from a large vendor, they might be looking to sell the company back to who they originally worked for.

That's brilliant advice. Thanks user. I feel a bit embarrassed coming to Jow Forums and knowing nothing about startups.

That's okay. I recommend a book called "Chaos Monkeys" by Antonio Garcia Marquez, who back in I think 2011 made a startup, sold it to Twitter, and then started working for Facebook trying to get its ads division up and running. Obviously some of the info is out of date, but the basic gist of it is still instructive, although his startup was pretty bare-bones (3 guys and a room).

That's one reason why I warned you against startups. You really need to understand the culture and the overall ecosystem and economic lifecycle of a startup, or else you might get burned. The early parts of the above book where the guy is working for a medium-sized company that grew from a startup might be relevant to you.

I looked up the list of vendors, and it appears that they just went from Series A to corporate round a couple of months ago. I don't really know about the different VCs, so I have to look into them.

>Leaving northwestern European country for burgerland

Attached: 401C9533-A455-411D-AE51-6E5EA4EEF88B.jpg (316x340, 45K)

It's a matter of excitement and possibility to make good money, vs. boredom and comfort.

>Better the Devil you know
Stick with the the first option, you have enough on your plate right now. Listen to As an aside, you should (for reasons that are easily searchable) always regard stock options as worthless. Take 'em, but assume they will end up being worth nothing once vested.

Thanks user.

Wtf happened to moot?

I’m obviously not OP, but I have a question regarding OPs situation. If he decides to work for the American company and works remotely in the beginning, who would he own taxes? The country he resides in? The US? Both?

Shameless bump

lol why would he tell the IRS if he lives halfway across the world in some post-soviet shithole

Wouldnt the company report it though?

White-Hiro looks like he had a fun night.

Everyone is hiring here. You will get more offers.

OP here (had to change computers). There are many companies, but not working with system level stuff (and especially not startups). But yeah, I'm definitively starting to leaning towards finishing up the PhD first.