Stop wasting time, come learn Japanese!
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乙
己
This is for those who have developed a basic understanding for Japanese and can manage through anime/manga/games, even if they have to rely on dictionaries. *It's also for those who have given up trying, as I'm interested in the reasons*. I'll try to keep it brief:
Is is worth it for me to keep trying to learn Japanese? I've done it probably for probably close to two years now. I've gone through all the concepts in Genki while learning the sentences and vocabulary in the chapter along with many supplementary sentences and vocabulary, and now that I see that I'm completely lost even approaching the simplest of Japanese, I'm making sure, (with Anki), that I can fluently read, and hear every sentence in Genki, as long as every vocabulary word that I think I will come across. This is just to give you an idea of my progress. If it's of any importance, I'm only trying to learn how to develop a fluency for hearing and reading Japanese, and not to write or speak it, as I have no desire to communicate with those who speak Japanese. I think this would be compensated by increasing my vocabulary and becoming more familiar with the words I know.
My motive: I really love Japanese games, but I feel a sense of mental atrophy as I play them, and I'm hoping that the challenge of trying to play them in a foreign language while trying to understand everything will make them more engaging. Same basic principle applies to anime, but I dislike dubs, and I don't like having to read subtitles when I rather pay attention to the screen.
Any remarks about whether learning Japanese was worth it for you, or whether you think it would be worth it in my position. I understand I'm sure that I gave you an incomplete picture of my circumstances and motives, but any advice for my issue would be appreciated.
I hope it's not a problem that I posted this twice. I'm just interested in more feedback, and wanted to post it once in a thread not dying. I won't post it again.
Post the simplest sentence that gives you trouble
this thread is for people past the stage of 'should I' brother
you'll never learn kanji without rtk
Post your best story
still (you) thirsty I see. so sad
don't be a hypocrite
they all kinda suck desu
It's okay, you won't remember any a couple months from now anyway
Is there a "fixed" dojg anki deck somewhere? Hate having to edit the cards everywhere, because for some reason the creator didn't see て as part of grammatical concepts...
乙
Wow, reducing it so much that even https:// is gone and Daily Japanse Thread -> DJT.
Though could've saved more by scrapping the first sentence ;)
XD
I see. This is the first time I've posted on Jow Forums, so I would not be familiar.
This right here. Maybe a like two sentences I can understand, but so much of it is so foreign, I haven't the slightest idea what I'm looking at.
I'm posting it because once I became a bit of a pest in a particular general and talked about myself and my Japanese learning, and one user supposedly with some knowledge the language posted this which he said was simplest Japanese, and I tried my very hardest to try to translate it, and the results were total shambles, and it followed with him translating it and using every opportunity to attack my efforts, point out my most embarrassing blunders, object to any excuse I used, (like how small the Kanji was), and really affected my confidence. It's been several months since then, I still keenly remember it, and perhaps my lack of confidence stems from than incident, which was either extremely unfair, or an eyeopener.
How the hell anybody, even a natural speaker, is supposed to read the Kanji in this comic, which I assure you is in the same image quality that he posted, is beyond me.
I successfully remembered kanji through reading all of the jump comics my brother had in his room like DB, Yu-yu-hakusho and Slam Dunk as a child, and I was like a super gifted who excelled others in almost all Japanese exams and Kan-ken tests I took at school (I even got some trophies and plaques for scoring the highest of all school)
I believe reading manga with Furigana side assistance on every kanji used all day is the most efficient and effortless way to learn kanji or how Japanese sentences are formed by natives.
Read the guide. Here's the important part: Start reading and listening to content aimed at natives that you find enjoyable for hours every day. Enough textbook shit. Anki is a supplement to your studies only, not the main part.
怪潜
艦長
There's a lot of unhappy people learning Japanese who feel better by pointing out others' mistakes, don't let it get you down.
>Read the guide.
What guide are you referring to? I've heard that advice several times, but I'm totally ignorance and have replied entirely on Genki and Anki decks.
>Start reading and listening to content aimed at natives that you find enjoyable for hours every day.
As far I can tell, I'm not at the level to read any content, much less what I find enjoyable, which is aimed for teenagers, (which I think is most anime and games), but I take a single look at anything resembling what I might want to read, and with some very rare instances, it's like I've learned nothing at all and I wouldn't even know where to begin to parse what I'm looking at.
I should say that while I am aiming at fluency and being able to read Japanese text as a Japanese person would without jumping around sentences to try to compose the sentence in English in my head, (albeit more slowly), I always rely on the translation initially, and I have no experience trying to translate by myself Japanese text, much less on content aimed at natives.
>What guide are you referring to?
New OP no longer says guide :\
What's with Americans and making long-winded blogposts?
The standard procedure here (which I and many other people here successfully did) is to start reading native content within a couple months, after going through a basic grammar guide once. It's very difficult at first, and will be no matter how long you delay it, but you'll never get anywhere clinging to textbook Japanese.
>New OP no longer says guide :\
C'mon now! He posted the same thing on the previous thread and ignored the guide as well, said "ok" to me telling him to read the guide and now here he is, asking the same shit again.
READ THE GUIDE, it's written by "us", in order to avoid repeating the key points over and over.
Are Japanese speakers learning English no longer welcome? Kinda rude, imo
Hey, I had to criticize something!
Are Japanese learners even welcome?
No this is for correcting English grammar only. Read the guide!
*人々 interested in the language, anime, manga, visual novels, light novels and Japanese video games
I can't answer that question. Probably, it's because we're maybe more confident in our English skills, since it's our first language. Perhaps it's because you're more likely to notice American speakers because they are by far the most numerous set of posters, (unless it's somehow different here), but I'm sure still far more numerous than Brits, Canadians, Australians, etc.
Thank you for pointing that out. I will take the time to read through it, and probably come back if I have questions after that, I though I will try to not ask unnecessary questions.
>said "ok" to me telling him to read the guide and now here he is
That's not what I meant to convey, and I wasn't sure what guide you were referring to.
freedom aint free. You gotta fight for your right to make people get over your walls of text lest they take your jobs. This government shutdown will continue until mexico pays for giant billboards filled with copypasta, mostly the amendments and the star spangled banner translated into spanish. Enough of this cuck shit. We're not giving back taco bell either, forget it pedro. Consider this 'come build your american dream' invitation permanently cancelled
Which guide?
No. We get mad about people making gains here.
FFS, it clearly says guide in one part of the URL which is no longer linked.
There's a habit with learners that love to get obsessed with the idea of learning a language without ever putting in any time with it. Your post length makes me think you fall into this category.
Read the guide, study, and get off this thread until you actually have questions about the language.
Guess I fit right in then, no gains only pain :)
Where???? Which URL???
Wow you really got 歯医者 down well though
>Your post length makes me think you fall into this category.
But I am putting time. How much? I have no idea, but according to Anki, I've reviewed 142915 card, apparently totaling 698 hours since around Marsh of 2017. I can't say how accurate that is, but that's what Anki says. I think I understand all the concepts in Genki well enough, but I'm trying to increase my fluency with sentences while reading them as if I were a natural speaker, something I think I have achieved with numerous sentences, (making sure I'm not relying merely on memory of the sentence), while going through all the example sentences in the book, which total several thousand, trying to learn them so they can be fluently read, while reviewing the sentences I can already read so they can get to a fluent rate.
It's always possible that I should be studying more and that I haven't studied enough up until now, but I don't know how I would determine that, especially since everybody seems to express language acquisition times for themselves that are far higher than I anticipated.
とvsや
When talking about multiple things, と is when you have a definite number of defined objects where as や you have various objects, right?
Hmm so こんどは日本語をやめるかくごでかいているの?
がんばれ!!
アンキにまけるなー!!
This is an incredibly simple question that does not encourage any discussion and can easily be googled
>There's a habit with learners that love to get obsessed with the idea of learning a language without ever putting in any time with it.
Oh boy, I remember doing that in the past.
や means there are more than what is listed
To obtain fluency you need to read an extremely wide variety of sentences, not the same sentences over and over.
could the jannies ban the jp invader jamal please
Oof. Without any resources, I translate this as:
In the future(?), you are(?) quitting Japanese?
Do you best!!
Win(?) by Anki!!
Around 216 reps a day, not that bad.
What have you read/watched or tried to read/watch so far?
惜しい!
>So this time you are writing with the resolve to quit Japanese?
>Do your best!!
>Don't lose to Anki!!
(It's taken from your comic above)
I'm surprised you don't know what "まけるな" means just from exposure to media. It's a very common phrase especially in shonen anime.
Learning japanese for me was probably the best long term decision I could've made considering that japan will probably be the first country to develop cute [spoiler]gf simulators[/spoiler].
Well, what I'm doing is reading sentences as Anki shows them to me. If I read a sentence, and I think I should be able to read it faster, or with fluency, assuming I can read it accurately at all, I mark it "Again," and otherwise "Good" or "Easy" if I can read it well enough, or easily.
So, I'm only reading sentences again when Anki, by my inputs brings them up again. Otherwise, when I can motivate myself, I read new cards.
>What have you read/watched or tried to read/watch so far?
That's the thing. For just about anything I attempt, it's like I've learned nothing at all. I know complaining about the language is fruitless, but I can compare my attempts to learn Japanese with learning Latin, where I actually had very difficult texts in mind, and even if I felt that I really shouldn't be bothering with the text because it's far beyond my ability, I can at least make an attempt, and can usually understand at least how a translation "fits" with a text. With Japanese, this still seems wholly unfeasible at this point. It's possible that I just have to try, but I can't overstate how futile it seems. Maybe it goes without saying, but in my experience, learning what little Latin I learned was far, far easier than learning Japanese, even though I know only English, I can't help but think it's because of the nature of the languages, for one thing, it's far more difficult at times to separate words in Japanese than with Latin, and then there's Kanji. Again, I know complaining or implicitly attacking the language is pointless, but another source of my frustration is how much more difficult learning Japanese is compared to Latin, and how far behind I am in the former compared to the latter despite putting, without exaggeration, about ten times more effort into Japanese than Latin.
If it's any consolation, I'm sure the Japanese posters on this site would feel the same frustration when seeing your posts.
watch anime
>It's a very common phrase especially in shonen anime.
I actually thought it might be "lose" at first, but then I thought "lose" began with Na, (which is true, but for a different "lose"), so my first impression was that it was, "Don't lose Anki," Again, I thought the use of Ni was strange, and of course, that translation makes much more sense with that particle.
Also, if I did know this phrase, it certainly wouldn't be from anime, which I've hardly touched at all, but from Genki, which I know was there, and have learned it, (which is why the meaning occurred to me), but clearly, not enough. That's probably one of those words were if I saw it in a review, I would have to pause longer than I would like, which is why I see an importance in frequently reviewing cards, but with spaced repetition.
>it certainly wouldn't be from anime, which I've hardly touched at all, but from Genki,
You need more opportunity to actually put what you've "learned" into real use. Just get as much input as you can. You know, like those AJATTers.
You've already wasted 2 years and that wasn't enough to realize your "learning" ritual doesn't fucking work? Start reading native content today or just give up.
I assume you mean subbed, and that's how I usually watch it, and unless it's very different from how I usually watch it, I don't think I could learn anything that way.
Without reading any guides as to how to learn Japanese from anime, (which I never really considered), two methods present themselves:
1. Have two windows open, one with the English sub and one with Japanese subtitles, and compare the sub to the subtitles, getting a sense of what the word means, and then translator, and then a dictionary to get a more exact, if less colloquial meaning. I do this again and again until I can fluently "watch" the anime. I think trying to understand the VA like this would be tortuous.
2. The same thing, but I don't rely on a sub. This method seems much harder.
I haven't the slightest idea as to how much I would learn doing this, but I would be very surprised if it would be easier or more efficient to learn the language compared to the my present methods, as slow and ineffective as they may seem, even to me.
Just read the guide (unironically) and then read Yotsubato like everyone else. Or quit.
Nice my mature retention rate is increasing.
you can do it with japanese subtitles or none. if you want you can make a card for every stuff you don't understand and you'll get a more effective deck than those shitty 1000000 vocab words decks
Don't give bad advice to someone that already spent two years on bad advice
don't reply to me
no u
Thank you for the advice. That is my present intention.
Something like this very method actually occurred to me, even going to far as to transcribe every sentence from any work that I didn't understand at first, (which should be almost every one), and then reviewing them as if they were something from Genki, trying to achieve fluency while reading them.
The problem with this is that it seems from the outset a less efficient approach, as well as the difficulty of getting or making translations I can rely upon, as well as the labor of transcribing those sentences.
However, nobody has actually given me much advice except to tackle content meant for Japanese speakers, and to read the guide, and the latter seems easier, I, who cut my nails first on my right hand, will read the guide and consider its advice.
Well, if they're here at all, they probably know far more English than I know Japanese, so no, it's not much of a consolation, but thank you anyway.
I did 200 kanji reviews today and only failed 3
liked and subscribed
based
The only kind of friend one can never disappoint
I know several of you passed the jlpt-n1 recently. Assuming someone barely passes, is that enough skill to have a good chance at winning a rap battle in 日本語? It seems to me that such a skill would really impress the 処女達 you might come across in your travels.
if you barely pass the n1 you won't even speak as well as a 6 year old
誰か私の畑を耕してください
What's the second sentence saying?
Only pubescent girls would care about an indirect kiss from a family member
畷を作ってないで耕してどうする
Do they?
I have a feeling that in whatever you are reading it will end being more than an indirect kiss
This is a 100% pure eroge.
日本の田舎に引っ越して超強くて可愛い農家を会いたい
それから私の畑を耕してもらいたい
素敵な農家に会えるように
Does Japanese have a relatively small vocabulary compared to English? I'm still studying Core and I find that this really is most of the words that I encounter, but I feel like if I tried to read English with only a few thousand words I'd be completely fucked. Is this true or is it just some weird confirmation bias?
English has more words compiled in dictionaries.
But the average post-graduate Japanese knows almost twice as many words as his American counterpart.
>超強くて可愛い農家
それは牛娘だろう
no. for everyday use it's the opposite in fact.
Is that including old japanese words?
Thanks. Flying Witch is teaching me a bunch of farm related words.
農業
農家
耕す
田舎
家業
...
which volume are you reading atm?
たくさんの言葉に出会ったな
えらい!
The first one. I got a bunch but I'm not moving onto the second until I can perfectly read the first.
お母さんは庭の草取りをしないと私に小遣いをもらえないと言った
You aren't giving your mom any allowance? 親孝行しなさい!
Yes. She knows her place.
Treat it as spelling.
if you can find someone to test you that'd be great, get 10 words per set and one sentence for test for kanji.
Use romaji if they can't read moon runes
So is ちょうど used to mean "right"? As in " the station is right across from the school"?
That's one acceptable way to use it. I like to look at the examples on jisho.org
>すでに彼の思考力は、原始的恐怖だけを残した野生動物のそれと同程度にまで退行していた。
What is the function of それ here? Can't you just use 野生動物と同程度?
It refers to 思考力. I don't know if you can leave it out or not, though
I couldn't come up with any examples to be translated as other than "right", to be ashamed.. Could you give one?
Pronoun, "That". Which is "思考力" (of "の" 野生動物) aforementioned.
>Treat it as spelling.
Valid opinion.
As another poster said, our vague recognition is mainly built based on nothing but exposure.
You sound very experienced at Japanese. Do you give lessons?