How did such a small country beat the shit out of the amerimutts?

We could have postponed it but most Vietnamese, north and south, supported the Viet Minh. The South Vietnamese regime was nothing without us keeping it propped up.

Tons and tons of Soviet radar, SAMs, aircraft, military advisers, tanks, and KGB-funded antiwar activists on college campuses.

Tanks, helicopters, and bombers are not designed for guerrilla warfare. If it had been simply force-on-force, it'd have been a weekend war.
But they were not trained for surprise attacks or a war of attrition. See also:
>Afghanistan
>Iraq
>Rhodesia
>Northern Ireland
>Mogadishu

the Viet Cong was based and fought hard for its country independence

>independence
It was a fucking civil war between two rival Vietnamese governments who wanted control of the whole thing.

Don't listen to those fucking idiots who never read Vietnamese history.
>dude just keeping attacking and bombing them
yeah nah. Viet history is nothing but getting attacked and repelling invaders. The Cong literally would rather all die than be a vassal of the US.

>Could USA have been able to stop unification of vietnam under communism if they just kept the war going on for longer? How close was american victory?

Very close actually, Hanoi was near collapse when the Paris Peace Accords were signed and would have only held out a few more months. It took two years to rebuild the NVA for the final offensive in spring 1975 and even then it was a desperation throw that might have been easily repelled with US naval and air support (not even ground troops).

What happened was that following Watergate, hard left antiwar Democrats gained control of Congress in the 1974 midterms. As soon as the new Congress convened in January 75, they passed a resolution terminating all further US aid to South Vietnam and forbidding further US military involvement in Indochina. President Ford was against this but Congress had a veto-proof majority.

It was immediately preceded by their rebellion against French colonialism, which was won by the movement which then became the government of North Vietnam. The South was an anti-communist western proxy. The Viet Minh was the independence movement, though. Viet Cong were a different group of guerrillas in the South.

How did moors rule Iberia for 800 years? Did yall enjoy the dickin' down or wha?

After the fall of the South, tens of thousands were put in labor/reeducation camps from which some were not released until the 90s. Thousands more fled the country in a mass exodus. Still others were purposely resettled on the Cambodian border to be exposed to Khmer Rouge attacks. The border between North and South remained sealed off for years.

When the NVA troops entered Saigon, they were stunned at the high living standards and abundance of goods available in shops since the North had Africa-level standards of living and their own propaganda had led them to believe the South was a vast prison camp where the US imperialists enslaved and raped people.

Ho Chi Ming was going to be the leader of the country, but A*erica was afraid of losing SEA to 'communism' despite the guy was more nationalist than communist, hence, the US divided the country in two and they installed a puppet president in the South, despite that president was more of a threat to everybody, the people wanted Ho Chi Ming

By 72 indeed the war had been pretty much been won. South Vietnam was cleared of communist forces and the overall security situation much improved over three years earlier. It had become possible to walk around Saigon unescorted while this would have been a death wish in 68. The South's economy was booming and a high degree of press freedom existed in contrast to the North and its grim Stalinism.

You're right, but as long as you (We) accept that we still lost the war. It's possibly apocryphal but there's a quote of some US general talking to a Vietnamese general.

>US General: "We beat you in every battle"
>Vietnamese General: "That's true - it's also irrelevant."

It's to one's detriment if they fail to remember that war is politics by other means 99% of the time. So autistic obsessions with just pure military victory without consideration of political concerns is usually going to bite you in the ass.

But is right that had US air/naval support persisted after the troop withdrawal either the North wouldn't have been able to seize Saigon or it would have taken more time and effort. I'm wondering if the US congress has ever fucking done something right with regards to foreign policy. Restricting the US from offering air/naval support to an ally seems plain vindictive against Ford/Nixon.

Post-Vietnam, Congress has largely been removed from direct authority over US foreign or military policy.

>N-No we didn't lose we pulled out
It's like when you are about to beat someone on console and he pulls the plug

Is that Trinidad?

Why do Amerilards keep repeating this bullshit. No you did not kill 5 million Vietnamese for the cost of 50k Americans.
South Vietnamese cassualties AREN'T your kills, and a lot of North Vietnamese died to the said South Vietnamese. Also counting civilians is a retarded move
In reality it's closer to 500k-1500k deaths for North Vietnam, 400k-1200k deaths for South Vietnam, 300k Civilians killed by the North , 200k civilians killed by the South, 300k Cambodians killed
Fucking dumb mutts don't know your own fucking wars yet you act smart.

The US absolutely crushed VC in combat (understandable) and the war was pretty disastrous for them. At the end of the Tet Offensive, the general feeling in the VC general staff was dread because it was such an unbelievably costly assault and most cities lost were retaken promptly. When they saw how the US media spun the Tet Offensive, they were completely surprised.

did you personally count them? stop quoting this bullshit, dumbass.

Still seething I see.

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burn! burn!

>Oh no believe my bullshit post where we killed 5 million and not the most wide estimates avaliable that are done by professionals
Dumb mutt, stay dumb if you want. If not, actually look up things you post

>dumb mutt

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The relationship between the US military and the media never really recovered from Vietnam. During the invasion of Grenada, the media whined at the decision of the Pentagon to exclude reporters from covering it and only release DOD footage.

>I was totally wrong but i got my IQ wiki list so tough luck
Yes you're a dumb mutt, an average piece of shit. Looking at averages when arguing with an individual shows your dumb mentality

Media can suck a fat cock. When we liberated Panama people there literally welcomed us with open arms (I think the data on the ground was 90% approval) yet the media still screeched.

Yeah well, since that leads to stuff like Geraldo giving away troop movements during the invasion of Iraq, you see what I mean?

That was not peasants with pitchforks we were dealing with there, it was professionally trained Cuban soldiers.

The famous photo of the South Vietnamese chief of police executing a prisoner was spun to make it seem like an innocent civvie was being shot when the guy was actually a Vietcong member who'd just been captured after knifing several civilians.

>the last American message out of Saigon as the commies overran it, lest any of you think we didn't lose:

IT HAS BEEN A LONG FIGHT AND WE HAVE LOST. THIS EXPERIENCE UNIQUE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT SIGNAL NECESSARILY THE DEMISE OF THE UNITED STATES AS A WORLD POWER. THE SEVERITY OF THE DEFEAT AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF IT, HOWEVER, WOULD SEEM TO CALL FOR A REASSESSMENT OF THE POLICIES OF NIGGARDLY HALF MEASURES WHICH HAVE CHARACTERIZED MUCH OF OUR PARTICIPATiON HERE DESPITE THE COMMITMENT OF MANPOWER AND RESOURCES WHICH WERE CERTAINLY GENEROUS. THOSE WHO FAIL TO LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE FORCED TO REPEAT IT. LET US HOPE THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE ANOTHER VIETNAM EXPERIENCE AND THAT WE HAVE LEARNED OUR LESSON.

SAIGON SIGNING OFF.

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its like jungle version of winter war
mutts got power but they miscalculated so didnt know they cant achieve the strategic point with their available power

They knew it too. Funding of the Mujahadeen was revenge on the Pentagon's part for Soviet assistance of Hanoi.

Cope

also, two major takeaways from vietnam to consider:

1) empires fighting against a regional power must consider that the regional power cares a lot more than the empire

2) never fight an unpopular war with conscripts

The real lesson learned is that you shouldn't make a war a political tool.

Yeah we missed that one.

They feared the rice farmers.

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Friendly reminder that presidential candidated Richard Nixon literally sabotaged peace talks between the US government and Ho Chi Ming just so he could get elected.

Weren't you occupied by Sweden and Russia for 800 years or something?

friendly reminder that reagan did the exact same thing with the iran hostage crisis during the carter presidency and nobody did anything about it

They beat the shit out of the chinese and beat the shit out of the french and japanese.

Vietnam can fdight off everything but mcdonalds

Congress of presidential debates shouldn't determine how you fight a war.

What's interesting is that antiwar activism came primarily from upper middle class college students who were not in any danger of being drafted themselves (being that college students were excluded from the Vietnam draft). Most actual soldiers were lower class whites from the South and Appalachia.

Yes we were. See, it's not so hard to be honest.

>implying vietnam won
That's a hard yikes

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Said lower class magapedes also ended up shooting the libs at a university

that was true at first, but then they changed the draft rules to make it more equitable. that change meant that college students were at risk of being drafted. that's when the real massive nationwide protests started.

72 DONGS for cheeseburger

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soooooo germany never lost ww1 by your logic

>Most soldiers were lowerclass hilbilies
doesn't surprise me, it's always the dumbest that are most eager to die

This is why half of me would be in favor of reinstating the draft. The average American wouldn't be so casual and apathetic about our current fuckings around if it were all that much closer to home.

>We'll go there to prevent Vietnam from becoming communist!
>*Vietnam becomes communist*
>W-we didn't lose..!

It had like half of Germany's population back then.

>sie sind vom Schlachtfeld unbesiegt zurückgekehrt

I got into it with someone on /b/ the other day who INSISTED that Vietnam was a US victory because "muh k/d ratio".

The US military itself unironically talked in terms of k/d to ensure people they were winning. Every evening on the news they'd talk about Hill XXXX and how many kills against how many losses.

>year of our lard 2019
>visiting bee

>McDonalds
Why do you make it sounds like McDonalds are doing ok over there when they're in fact flopping? Next time just mention KFC, because unlike McDonalds, people actually like KFC in Vietnam.

Lol sounds like a Jow Forumsesmoking autist just jerking off to dead gooks.

The real problem wasn't that so much as it was Robert McNamara lowering IQ and fitness requirements which resulted in a lot of conscripts who weren't mentally or physically fit for the rigors of combat. Many of them got killed or wounded on their first patrol.

in the end, the only winners were the jews

This is true, the only idiots coping with the "but muh 60k dead muricans vs 5 million gooksz!!!" are hicks with a family member that fought in the war who want to convince themselves that US troops aren't worthless.

youtube.com/watch?v=Unn8wIQzAeE

Lol explain.

Trillions of expenses, establishment of the military-industrial complex, literally nothing gained in the end.

>inb4 this thread gets flooded with asshurt Russkie/chink spambots

Too late.

>Vietnam becomes communist
Yes they are free from those pesky American capitalist fast food chains. Thank g-d

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These threads are 99% baitcancer but I'll reply anyway.

Some facts that people miss
>We were there to stop a domino effect of East asian countries going commie, much like we saw what happened to the Eastern Bloc. Which we did. The spread of communism did not go past Vietnam in the area.
>China is right fucking next to Vietnam. If there's anything we learned from Korea (aka fighting a war across the world bordering two major powers) was not to bring those powers into the war. So it was tricky, you had to fight a war with two hands tied behind your back so to say. If things got too fucky, especially close to China's border, they could've entered the conflict. Which would've been catastrophic. A very weird war tactically.

>establishment of the military-industrial complex
That was established as a result of WWII.

So you're implying the whole endgoal of the US was to establish chain fastfood restaurants?

No bots but S*rbia is russias little bitch so you can expect them to come and shit on everything if given the chance.

probably the greatest +jew change that happened out of the war was an expansion of congress's powers after faith in the president collapsed. congress had always had much stronger jewish influence than the presidency, and after nixon the US never challenged israel ever again for fear of the wrath of the jewish lobby

It was but this time they really got to start producing. Don't forget that more bombs were dropped during the Vietnam war than in WW2, except this time most production happened within privately owned factories instead of the nationalised ones in WW2.
Vietnam war was a private war, whereas WW2 and Korea were not.

This, serbniggers are retarded

>how did such a small country beat the shit out of the amerimutts?

The state of Portuguese education.

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>can fight off everything but mcdonalds
cope

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>China is right fucking next to Vietnam. If there's anything we learned from Korea (aka fighting a war across the world bordering two major powers) was not to bring those powers into the war. So it was tricky, you had to fight a war with two hands tied behind your back so to say. If things got too fucky, especially close to China's border, they could've entered the conflict. Which would've been catastrophic. A very weird war tactically

China would have done nothing and Johnson and McNamara foolishly bought their bluff --the Sino-Vietnamese border was rugged, remote terrain and they would have had a hard time moving any significant amount of troops there especially with their primitive logistics. The PLA was also in very poor condition in the mid-1960s with many soldiers literally starving. They had no combat experience either, it was 15 years since Korea and it was a completely different generation of soldiers.

WE CAN'T WIN

>except this time most production happened within privately owned factories instead of the nationalised ones in WW2.

Factories weren't actually nationalized in WWII either. That said, a significant amount of US industrial capacity _was_ tied up in supporting the Vietnam war effort but imports of consumer goods from Japan made up for the shortfall and there was no rationing like in WWII or Korea.

So one significant effect of Vietnam was allowing Japanese goods to really become entrenched in the US marketplace.

youtube.com/watch?v=7hqYGHZCJwk

This video will have you red pilled in just a couple minutes.

No the goal was to contain communism. Now they're state capitalists shoveling down American garbage

Mission Accomplished

KFC is winning so fuck off proxy

dios mío....

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There never was communism.

>Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot!
Alright buddy settle down
So this was all just 4D checkers in action, I see.
The point of the war was to stop the domino effect from VIETNAM turning communist, which it did. Didn't cause a domino effect but it was still a win for the (North) Vietnamese and a loss for you guys.

We had the will to fight and they didn’t

>Which we did
lolno, after Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia immediately fell to communism. Laos is still communist but it was Vietnam itself which told Cambodia to stfu since they're more of nationalists then they are for the idea of a global commie state.

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Also it's interesting that North Vietnam conducted more trade and commerce with Japan and Western Europe than they did the communist bloc. US pressure gradually got most of our allies to stop but Great Shitain never quit trade and business contacts with Hanoi.

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