If the Maghrebs drop Arabic as their No...

>Boumediene responded to the Berberophones' demand as follows: “How would our children make themselves understood by their brothers in Cairo and Bagdad if, instead of learning Arabic, they were to learn Berber?”

Was it cringe or redpilled? This seems so long ago.

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Maghreb should go full arabic (or berber for current berberophones) as first langage and english as second, for practical and economic reasons.
French is useless outside of moving there, wich shouldn't be the only persepective for the youth there. It's hurting both sides at this point.

First berber language isn't dead and it's far from it, there are 25-30 million speakers.
Because we didn't really get independence the scumbags who got to rule were probably bribed into getting the pan arabism shit and they practiced an arabization doctrine especially in north west africa. They arabized every tiny shit fuckers even wanted to arabize couscous and started spouting arabism propaganda like we wuz yemenis who came to north africa and shit like that. Until this day no nationalistic/patriotic person ruled over the four countries, each president had some agenda behind him.

Not really asking that the Maghrebs should drop arabic in this topic.I'm just asking if would they still be considered "Arabs" when they drop Arabic to revive Maghreb language and make it their only official language.I saw a report where some parts of Algeria/Morocco are struggling to revive it since the number of speakers have fallen over all
That's just really messed up to be honest
It'd be like the arabs claiming SEA to be a part of the Arab world just because "you have muslims in it"

It's most of a mix of idealism and islamic / ummah ideology.

>Under Boumediene, arabization took the form of a national language requirement on street signs and shop signs, despite the fact that 60 percent of the population could not read Arabic

It's true that they went a bit too far, especially trying to eraze the langage of the non arabized population, but it was cool for its time.

>propaganda like we wuz yemenis
Before modern genetic testings and such, persistents myths like this one were considered truth, not propaganda. Sanhaja and such considered themselves to be from yemen for so many centuries.

boumediene was a pathetic nasser wannabe and hardly a patriot

>plus it'd have been too autistic albeit trying to get rid of berber culture
No one got rid of berber culture, fuckers gave an arab origin to everything even tried to do it to the couscous. Idk wtf they mean when they say we have arab culture here.

Based and pan nationalism.empire building

The ones that arabized the maghreb the most were ironically the ~1 million iberians andalous expelled in the 16-17th by Spain, they arabized the coast to important degree, and they gave arabic his best authors.

I would say the identity is more complex than the dichotomy arab/non arab. Prior to the 19th, Egyptian, Syrians and such didn't really consider themselves to be arabs, arab meant bedouin. Arab as a national identity is a really modern process. I think maghrebis countries developped their own national identity enough during the barbary era to simply be called tunisia or moroccan.

>It'd be like the arabs claiming SEA to be a part of the Arab world just because "you have muslims in it"
What? the Middle East and North Africa has a long shared history of being under the same polity for almost 1000 years if not longer, No one in their right mind claims Arabs just because of Islam
The Arabian peninsula got its name from Greek who first came across Arabs in Houran, they then assumed that everything south of them was Arab too.

except a lot NA historical books are written in french and many maghrebi authors use french
it's a bigger part of their culture than msa at this point, really + way more useful tbqh
>islamic / ummah ideology.
he closed the association of qlgerian muslim ulemas and he put sheikhs in jail because they dared to criticize nasser

The Arabs in Houran were Nabateans also.

>the Middle East and North Africa has a long shared history of being under the same polity for almost 1000 years if not longer
Well that's just not really true, morocco, kabylia, aurasus and such were not in any shared state with the middle eastern since like 1300 years

Read what Larping can go as far as here since SEA has a sizeable muslim population
Maghrebis should work hard on making themselves distinct from the Arabs through their revival of berber

No they weren't, the Nabatean's were an empire who culturally assimilated various peoples they conquered, much of their origins is unknown.

Using a colonial langage as first langage is really embarassing, at least arabization is an endogene process, mostly during the almoravid/almohad era, then by berber leaders in the 60s. (and the al andalus morisco expelled waves)

>The Berber sultans allowed — and indeed invited — the Hilalians to enter Morocco, overlooking the consequences of a large-scale Arab penetration.
>Morocco: a country study - Page 33

>Hilalian Arabs, defeated in battle by the Almohads, were nonetheless allowed to settle in Morocco.
>Harold D. Nelson

>Abdul-Mumin's defeat of the Hilalian bedouin in Tunisia led to the forced settlement of a number of Arab tribes in Morocco's coastal plains bordering the Atlantic ocean, where their arrival accelerated the process of Arabisation.
>The Middle East Yearbook - Page 186

>It's most of a mix of idealism and islamic / ummah ideology.
Pure fucking autism and wannabes
>Before modern genetic testings and such, persistents myths like this one were considered truth, not propaganda. Sanhaja and such considered themselves to be from yemen for so many centuries.
Yeah because of ~14th century arabism propaganda(giving a reason to allign berbers to arabs just like europeans gave berbers an european origin when they invaded)

>iberians andalous
I remember some were told they were not true moors if they couldn't speak arabic or berber when they tried to speak in spanish or something

berbers are arab sock suckers

Why not just become christian and start speaking french?

I'm pretty sure that arabs genuinely belived that some berbers (zenega/sanhaja) had a yemeni origin because their environement (desert) and life style (camel, nomadism).

And for basically thousands of years, people tought berbers came from the land of Canaan. Berbers belived that too.

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They already inhabited those places, even if they "culturally assimilated various peoples they conquered"
They were desert nomads and they settled desert areas.

No stop that user
We don't want islamfags and ummahniggers shitting up my thread

Why the fuck would I want to speak a dead language?
There's nothing more cringe than an Arab/Berber mutt LARPing as a full blooded Berber BVLL

>Umayyads, Fatimids, Ayyubids, Ottomans
>Read what
I did read it, and so what? All the ethnicities and countries in the Middle East and North Africa are made up not even the people in Arabian peninsula are real "Arabs.
>1. Shared language
>2. Shared religious practices
>3. Shared culture
>4. Shared history

He's wrong in this regard, this is exactly what makes up a people and a nation. I'm not even a pan-Arabist btw.

Let me ask you this, do you think Turkey is a real country whose people all descend from far eastern horsemen?

Israelis did it with hebrew
Why not berber?
There's some who still speak it

All turks have central asian ancestors.

They had a lot of spanish loanwords and linguistic differences but they pretty much arabized a lot of big cities. Imagine 1 million morisco on a ~4 or 5 million populated maghreb

>La seule mutation d’importance avait été l’arabisation progressive de la cité, concrétisée sur le tard dans le domaine religieux par l’influence du théologien Si Abder Rahman-et-Tha’albi, qui deviendra le saint protecteur de la ville (1490). Cette arabisation s’inscrivait certes dans l’évolution générale, résultat de l’invasion hillalienne, mais elle s’était trouvée localement renforcée par l’arrivée régulière de Maures espagnols, Tagarins ou Andalous, qui donnèrent également un regain à la course maritime locale

>Les Arabes d’Alger descendent soit d’Arabes arrivés au xiiie siècle, les Tha‛laba, soit d’émigrés andalous ou tagarins (originaires d’Aragon) venus au xve siècle ou au début du xvie

>that imaginary time when the ayyubid ruled algeria, morocco, tunisia
yeah no, didnt happend.
Fatimids were created by a berber tribe by pure hatred of the arabs, at least of the aghlabid arabs. And the berber rulers in the levant (syria etc.) were hated by the arabs.
And berbers (moroccan or algerian) didnt live in the Ottoman empire.

>at most they'll drop MSA
MSA is only used in scientific/literary writing. The only reason why MSA isn't getting completely displaced is because no one wants to standardize the "dialects".

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No they don't. As stated above, they have a shared language, Turkish, culture, religion, Islam and shared history. In reality they're all native Anatolian's for the most part

Israelis were trying (and succeeded) to create an ethnostate for Jews only. So they picked the one definitive language of Judaism, which is Hebrew.
We are a mix of Ayyraps and Berberoids and are officially a Muslim nation. We picked the definitive language of Islam, Arabic.

>All the ethnicities and countries in the Middle East and North Africa are made up
Countries yes but you can't deny the fact that the ethnicities there have been there for many centuries and have been documented by people throughout history
>not even the people in Arabian peninsula are real "Arabs
So what are they? Magical sea people that came fron Lemuria?
All I'm saying is that it'd be easy for Arabs to claim SEA nations like Malaysia based on the fact that they have the same shared religious practices as well as the fact that they have a script which is as close as it can get to arabic

>Let me ask you this, do you think Turkey is a real country whose people all descend from far eastern horsemen?
It's common knowledge that the original descendant of the Turkish people were from Central Asia

Friendly reminder that "arab" as an identity is a 20th process and no one called himself Arab in Syria, Egypt etc. expect for the bedouins.

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>the Middle East and North Africa has a long shared history of being under the same polity for almost 1000 years if not longer
Not a single political entity controlled Tangier and Baghdad simultaneously after the Umayyads(661-750).

The problem is that to this day there are braindead people that still believe in it, idiots don't even know to google. And let's not talk about the other shit fictional stories they make like berbers are roman-vandal descendants and others stories, i even talked with an absolutely braindead tunisian on youtube he told me berbers are romanis(ghajr) they exist everywhere in the world and came to north africa and disowned their lineage.

Most Maghrebis are not like the Berber nationalist assburgers online and gladly speak Arabic and identify as Arab (just with high regional identity)

>but you can't deny the fact that the ethnicities
Er yes I can because ethnic groups aren't real either, they're social constructs which are formed over many generations.
>So what are they?
In the past only Bedouins or Nomadic people in the area of southern Syria/Jordan were called Arabs. Their language spread from Syria to the peninsula and wiped out the original languages which were similar to southern Semitic languages of the Yemeni variety
But all this doesn't matter since the definition has been changed.
> it'd be easy for Arabs to claim SEA nations like Malaysia
No it wouldn't, why claim Malaysia when Arabs could claim Iran and Turkey instead, they're much closer and yet no one does? Your point is stupid.
>It's common knowledge that the original descendant of the Turkish people were from Central Asia
Wrong, modern genetics shows otherwise, they are a mix of Turks, Greek, Armenians, Bosniaks, various tribes from the Caucasus but mostly they are native Anatolians

>scientific writing
>msa
Probably stopped being a scientific language in the 12-13-14th century

well technically the zirid and almoravid and almohad all respected the venerable abbasid that were still *nominally* and aritfically mainted alive and technically """controlling" Baghdad, and they made the friday prayer in the name of the Abbasid caliph, even if the abbasid had absolutely zero political control or influence there.

And moroccan/berbers in algeria that were independant from the Ottoman and even in war with them still prayed in the name of the Caliph.

nomadic bro fist to my halaji arab bros
who are the only reap arabs
who still drink camel milk, have saluki, eagle hunting, live in yurt
it would be better for us to adopt arabic instead of moloch follower brown africans

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Ye. We use French now, which is much much muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better.

I mean it's not even the khutba, the moroccan sultans in the 18th still minted money with the name of the Ottoman caliph, out of respect mostly.

Pretty sure all academic documents must be made in MSA in all MENA countries

>no one wants to standardize the "dialects".
Why? Wouldn't that be much more useful?

Why would they do this? Arabic is an international language. Nobody gives a shit about Berber afaik. I did see a car with a Berber flag bumper sticker the other day, with a vanity plate that read KABYLE so I guess there are some folks who are all about it.

Ar-apes think everyone is out to get them. Someone made an Egy Arabic wiki back in 2009, the only arabic dialect that actually got approved and made into a wiki, and it got boycotted and intentionally ruined by Nasserists and other subhumans.

There are archived discussions on the Arabic wiki talking about how 80% of the creators of the Egy wiki are westerners "conspiring" against Arabs and the Arabic language and the other 20% are Egyptian christian diaspora. The wiki had ~50 or something active editors but it got boycotted by 400 editors from the Arabic wiki.

But desu, the wiki also failed because Egy Arabic isn't standardized and there was a heated debate among the first creators on how should they write and should they use a latin alphabet or not.

Reminder
"ابن خلدون العربي:"اذا عرّبت خرّبت
Ibn khaldun the arab:"if it's arabized it's ruined"

>There are archived discussions on the Arabic wiki talking about how 80% of the creators of the Egy wiki are westerners "conspiring" against Arabs and the Arabic language
That's absurd, and it's also a real shame, were the dialects standardised it would make communications much more accessible. It's incredible that no governments have taken steps to start this process.

>there was a heated debate among the first creators on how should they write and should they use a latin alphabet or not.
How about on here, do you all just speak to each other in MSA or what?

>It's incredible that no governments have taken steps to start this process.
Because the general sentiment in MENA is that "PAN-ARABISM GOOD"
Islam contributes a great deal to that sentiment.

>do you all just speak to each other in MSA or what?
No but some of us are courteous enough to tone down our dialects and use more common words. But, people usually understand Egyptian and Levantine because of exposure. Alas, diaspora, like the leb brapzilian, can only understand their respective dialects.

>Ar-apes think everyone is out to get them.
Lmao this, add to that all muslims who think everything is a fitna made by the mossad,west,atheists,free masons,anti christ worshippers people. Literally real life poltards

Curious, perhaps the lack of linguistic unity after OCS fell out of use is why pan-Slavic movements collapsed in recent centuries. It could be like that with MSA. Do you dislike pan-arabism though?

>No but some of us are courteous enough to tone down our dialects and use more common words.
That's a shame. Which dialect would you say is most common here? I guess Egyptian but idk

I can speak for morocco. Because Islam and the king is supposedly a direct descendent of the prophet Mohammed so it makes no sense.

I'm South Mediterranean, not North african.
We are living under the rule of arabs.
And to be honest, we would be a great nation with a med union, a trade union specially, banning communism, socialism and applying a capitalistic islam based on scientific education. We have the negroes in the south and in the east the arabs. We are in the front line of a lot of things but we will succeed as amazigh by god helps

>the king is supposedly a direct descendent of the prophet Mohammed
Yeah nah, absolutely not i assure you it's all made up since medieval times it has always been a thing to make up some retarded family trees/lineages

The arab education can lead to misgenation. We should adapt our islam to amazigh racialist standards

cringe and blupilled

The king is a mongrel,so it's possible. Not the people (a minority that should be banned)

I'm stating facts. We need a revolution against arabs. Kill the motherfuckers expel them with the negroes. Islam should be used to keep patriarchy, just for that. Everything else from misgenation and superiority of arabs should be banned

Despite all arguments hereby presented, I still believe that learning Arabic as a native language, followed by French and then English, was a very ideal scenario, basically an entry into a romance language, a germanic (albeit heavily latinized) and a semetic one, and it truly facilitates the learning process of other sister languages. Arabic offers a nice window into pre-islamic arab world and arabic literature, and even unto ancient semetic civilisations.

>Arabic offers a nice window into pre-islamic arab world and arabic literature, and even unto ancient semetic civilisations.
And what did they benefit us ? by learning how 1400 years ago a sandnigger poet tried to get into his lover pants ?
Meanwhile you don't learn shit(at least us here) about your true ancestors or their history or north west africa's very rich history.

Whether they benefit me or not is not my concern, I simply am interested in reading and learning about such a thing. And I do speak taqbaylit, although to a limited extent, my grandmother's family are Kabyle, however the problem lies in the fact that France did their best destroy Algerian's liaisons with their ancesters through the law of 23 mars 1882 which states: "Si l’indigène, qui a le droit de choisir un nom, s’abstient, ou s’il persiste à indiquer un nom précédemment choisi par un ou plusieurs individus, son droit devient caduc et passe, non point à un autre membre de la famille, mais au commissaire de l’état civil."
As a result, many people lost decades of family lineage.

It doesn't have anything to do with lineage...
If you are in north africa, you learn north african history from A to Z (at the very fucking least first then you learn other history) not some land 3000kms away history...
It is no fucking surprise that no youth feels attached to this land, because they are not taught its full history, they are not taught how many of their ancestors defended it, thus they can't learn to love it.
The educational system is a disaster.

What the fuck is wrong with you folks
Why do people hate arabs this much even if they do not live in there? I mean I don‘t care about arabs and all but it‘s clear you‘re butthurt about arabs lol.

What's the difference?

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>Larping can go as far as here since SEA has a sizeable muslim population
Trust me no people in mena would want to claim sea monkes lol
Need not to worry about that

because you are stupid and breed like rats

WE
WUZ
CHURCH
FATHERS

Pretty sure Israel, Finland or Czechia have published more scientific works in their native tongues than the entire Arabic speaking world combined.

>Arabic offers a nice window into pre-islamic arab world a

wut

Word meanings and how they came to be, usually originate from old methodological occurences and entities of the region of Arabia and Mesopotemia. Simple examples would be how the arabic word for Sun is "Shamss" which orignates from "Shamash" or commonly known as Utu, the god of sun in Mesopotamian mythology, or the word for Heaven which is "Jana", believed to be derived from "Inanna", goddess of heaven in Mesopotamian mythology as well. Note that these are not exclusive to Arabic but can also be found in other semetic languages.

I am pretty sure this can also be applied to every other language, I just find it intriguing when it comes to Arabic because pre islamic era tend to be neglected by arabs for religious reasons, therefore, many interesting finds go unnoticed by most.

wtf Japan is cute ^.^