Yisrael Beytenu leader Avigdor Lieberman called on Chief Rabbis David Lau and Yitzhak Yosef to resign after Israeli media exposed the practice conducted by the Rabbinical Court to use DNA examinations to decide if a person is of Jewish origin.
Daily reminder that Avigdor Lieberman is a leader of Russian Jews in Israel.
And that's a Polish guy telling a story (unfortunately without English subtitles) about times when he resided in Novosibirks in 90s and 00s and seen with his own eyes like Russian-mongol-slavs without drop of Jewish blood in their veins were buying Jewish heritage on black market for rubels and the fake documents "proving" Jewish heritage were mass produced by Russian public administration and sold to random Russians who only wanted to emigrate to Israel:
I am a Pole so it doesn't concern me but to be honest, i would like to know how many of Russian-speaking citizens of Israel are actually Jewish. Wouldn't you?
>Avigdor Lieberman is a leader of Russian Jews in Israel. no he's not, he's not even that popular among us
Dominic Stewart
It is weird that your government never really cared that so many of Russian "jews" refuse to learn Hebrew and watch Russian media on daily basis even after many years spent in Israel. Maybe it is because nobody from Europe except of third-world Ukraine and Russia wants to emigrate to Israel and Israel needs European people as war meat in its wars against Arabs.
i dont know anyone who dosnt speak hebrew ,i cant see whats the problem with boomers watching some russian films sometimes.
Jackson Davis
Second or third generation surely speaks Hebrew, i am talking about their parents and grandparents. If i was a Jew, first thing i would do before aliyah, would be learning Hebrew perfectly and everything about Jewish culture. If somebody emigrates to Israel and refuses to do this for years, his motivation and Jewishness is pretty much very unsure, if you ask me.
Nathan Edwards
they're not 'refusing to do this for years', they made aliyah pretty much as soon as it was possible and as for learning proper hebrew we teach it over here and they knew. there's a few boomers here and there that probably didnt learn any hebrew but i dont know any (and i know a lot of russians) and they're a tiny minority
Ryan Brooks
So what's the problem with using DNA examination to be 100% sure if a person is a Jew or not? Even Poland lately wanted to use 'criteria of blood' to give "card of Pole" to people from former Soviet block who could have Polish heritage, and it is not even a citizenship but only a card that gives you right to work and study in Poland, and nothing more than this.
>So what's the problem with using DNA examination to be 100% sure if a person is a Jew or not? DNA dosnt tell you a person's nationality.a citizen of a country that served in it's army and risked his life defending it shouldn't be subject to DNA exams to be able to legally marry in it.
Logan Morgan
>DNA dosnt tell you a person's nationality
Current DNA-testing technology can give you 100% sure answer to question if a person has askehnazi genes or not and in what percent. So checking immigrants from Ukraine/Russia/Belarus could give 100% sureness if these persons who arrive to Israel are really Jewish.
Nathaniel Green
>a citizen of a country that served in it's army and risked his life defending it shouldn't be subject to DNA exams to be able to legally marry in it.
So i was right after all when i said that Israel needs fresh immigrants from Europe only to use them as war meat in its wars against Arabs. But the character of Israel as a Jewish state is pretty much watered down with such attitude when a slav-mongol from former Soviet block can present himself as a Jew only because he shot a Palestinian toddler.
Nolan Ortiz
as i said you cant tell if a person is jewish by genes because its not a genetic group , its a nationality
Carter Peterson
>as i said you cant tell if a person is jewish by genes
You actually can, at least in case of askhenazi population. Askhenazi Jews are a race sharing similar genetical structure. You could only define who is a jew on the basis of what percent of askhenazi genetics enables them to present themselves as such. 30%? 50%? 70%? 90%. And that's all.
Brandon Richardson
you can't determinate that on dna test alone. there are people who converted to judaism for example, and you can't prove 100% that you found the "jewish gene" anyways.
the dna tests are used on people who have relatives who already been confirmed for being jewish so they can take a test that proves that they are for example their cousins from the mothers side and then they will be allowed to make aliyah according to Israeli law. anti israel people just push the dna testing angle because they think it makes us look bad, it's rarely even used.
>there are people who converted to judaism for example,
Are they even Jewish?! I was always told that a Jew is somebody who has a Jewish mother.
Hunter Phillips
i love polish threads because they tell me how my country really is
Kayden Sullivan
nationality is not a group defined by genetics , it's defined by tradition,shared history and national culture.
Zachary Hall
>nationality is not a group defined by genetics , it's defined by tradition,shared history and national culture.
Well, i agree with this, but only if we talk about gentile nations. But being Jewish is having Jewish mother. It was established by rabbis thousands years ago for a reason: because only a Jewish mother gives 100% guarantee that she would pass Jewish blood on her child, even if her husband is a goy. Meanwhile Jewish father doesn't give such a guarantee because gentile mother could cheat on him with a goy. So in case of Jews it would be very useful to check who is a Jew and who is only pretending to be one, to care about character of Israel as a jewish state.
Adrian Torres
Will Shahar be deported for being a White European?
Charles Martinez
anyone can become a jew, it's not a closed religion. but once you become a jew you can't back out and also your descendants can't back out and you're bound to follow all the religious laws instead of just the goyim laws, so it's viewed as taking on a burden. people think jews are a race but we are just a religion that you can't get out of.
Easton White
>it's rarely even used.
I know. It is practicaly not used at all, and when it is used, it becomes a scandal. Weird.
Jose Stewart
>anyone can become a jew
Sounds like heresy. Are you sure that ultraorthodox rabbis accept such converts as Jews at all? In period of thousand years when Jewry resided in Poland, there was not even a single case of a Pole converting himself to judaism, while there were shitloads of cases of Jews converting themselves to catholicism to get higher in the society hierarchy and become richer. We have a lot of Poles with "convert surnames" that indicate that their great-great-great....grandparents were Jews who decided to convert themselves to catholicism.
Landon Gonzalez
> check who is a Jew and who is only pretending to be one there's no real way to do that unless you wanna go all authoritarian and spy on people's private lives and arbitrarily decide that some people's national identity is not strong enough for your tastes. we live in a liberal democracy and our entire culture is completely opposed to such authoritarian measures.
Luis Garcia
I think that using DNA technique in case of people who live in Israel many years is immoral and shouldn't happen, but using DNA tests to check if _immigrants_ are really Jewish or not could be very useful, of course only if we assume that Israeli government is not desperate to increase population of Israel by all cost, preferably with using European influx, that could be useful to build anti-muslim/anti-arab character of Israel
Brayden Watson
some ulthraorthodox pride themselves in family trees and being descendants of famous rabbis, and will snub a convert but that doesn't mean you can't become a jew, rabbi akiva is revered as one of the greatest rabbis to ever live and he is said to be a son of converts.
i find it hard to believe that "there was not even a single case of a Pole converting himself to judaism" but it makes sense that not many would, converting to judiasm is a long and hard process and many rabbis will turn you down to test if you want it enough to come again. and also why would people want to join into an underclass and give up on their rights?
Hudson Butler
>and also why would people want to join into an underclass and give up on their rights?
Jews had always more rights than Polish peasantry, and only little less than Polish aristocracy (but usually more money). Hell, even today Jews have more rights than Poles. When a Polish civilian tries to carry a weapon in public place, he is automatically arrested, but when a Jew from Israel comes here and threatens Poles with weapon in public places, police doesn't even touch him.
Jayden Butler
if it could tell you that they'd use it but dna tests cant tell you if they're jewish.
Gabriel Perez
>this post again Orthodoxy has a monoply over marriage here, and it considers a person jewish if his mother is jewish or if he's properly converted to judaism (thus making the whole "jew dna" claim redundant regardless) In those cases in the article, couples that applied for marriage, which is performed under orthodox law, and didn't have papers that show the person is jewish, were requested to provide a DNA test in order to prove so (for example maybe his mom is jewish, but he's not her biological son and so forth) or they won't be able to marry under orthodox law. It has nothing to do with their status as civilians
On a side noet, it's kinda sad and creepy how you're so obsessed about our country
Dylan Martinez
>On a side noet, it's kinda sad and creepy how you're so obsessed about our country
I am not, though. Fuck off.
Kayden Foster
from what i know jews were an underclass and were not allowed to live in certain places or own land, but i never got into it so maybe i'm wrong. >When a Polish civilian tries to carry a weapon in public place, he is automatically arrested, but when a Jew from Israel comes here and threatens Poles with weapon in public places, police doesn't even touch him that is a dumb argument, obviously the israelis with weapons are licenced security guards.
Angel Wright
>that is a dumb argument, obviously the israelis with weapons are licenced security guards.
Do you understand that sending here your school trips in company of security guards is being regarded as an insult?
Michael White
Yes you are, you opened the same thread yesterday, and you post constantly about israel on Jow Forums. Like, i never read an article from polish newspaper in my life, because i don't give a fuck what happens in some remote countries
Levi Davis
well i can see how it may be insulting but you can't deny that there is a considerable amount of polish people with antisemite sentiments, not to mention the possibility of islamic terrorism. parents wont feel safe to send their teenagers to poland without having israel handle the security.
Ryan Foster
You fucking dumb kike, there is no muslims in Poland and we are not "antisemites". Muslims are 20% of Israel's population and you are antisemites because you kill semites on daily basis. When you send here your Auschwitz school trips in company of security guards you are spitting in our face. You spit too much in our face lately.
Oliver Sanchez
>es you are, you opened the same thread yesterday, and you post constantly about israel on Jow Forums.
How can you know that it was me who posted about Israel earlier? Do you see IPs?
Jonathan Peterson
I recognize your style of writing
Nicholas Sanchez
So it is you who is obsessed about my style of writing, then
Juan White
having an angry breakdown and calling me a kike while spinning the meaning of antisemitism doesn't exactly help your argument... i'm not saying there are many muslims in poland, i'm implying that we don't trust your police to stop terrorists that decide to attack israelis on your land. and parents won't trust polish security guards to be in charge of their kids in poland. you can consider it a "spit on your face" but i think that if you think about it you will realize that it is not fair to expect us to trust you, sadly we don't have that kind of relationship. i wouldn't expect polish parents to trust israel with their children either if it was the other way around.
Asher Sanders
You dumb kike, i approached like dozen of Israeli kikes in _2 hours_ of my walking in my city during _one day_ and even made videos of it. I used simple technique to find them in crowd: when i saw somebody with Jewish looks who had a company and was talking to other person, i was approaching them, and following them for a moment to hear what they talk. If they used such words as "lo" or "ken", i knew that they are Jewish because i know only these two words in Hebrew.
Why they all could come here without security guards but fucking auschwitz kike trips come here with security guards? Dont you think that it is a provocation and antipolonism? It looks as if you tried to protect your youth from "antisemitic Poles". Clearly provocation
Blake Thompson
lmao i remember you you once said you're going to attack israeli tourists and then deleted all your posts and your youtube channel when you realized you can get v&. you're obviously obsessed with jews and have mental issues, the relatively high possibility of someone like you ending up as a security guard is one of the reasons we cannot allow that.
in the "fucking auschwitz kike trips" young teenagers are sent alone with the schools so it's natural for parents to be very worried about them unlike regular isreali tourists.
Ayden Roberts
>you once said you're going to attack israeli tourists and then deleted all your posts and your youtube channel when you realized you can get v&.
It wasn't me, but you can see yourself how totalitarian Poland is if somebody was forced to do such thing.
> you're obviously obsessed with jews and have mental issues, the relatively high possibility of someone like you ending up as a security guard is one of the reasons we cannot allow that.
If Israeli guards have mental issues and are obsessed with Poles, they could begin to shoot to Poles finally, and it happened few times already. I want Polish politicians to ban Jews from owning weapon on territory of Poland, and i have such a right as a voter.
> in the "fucking auschwitz kike trips" young teenagers are sent alone with the schools so it's natural for parents to be very worried about them unlike regular isreali tourists.
Poland is not antisemitic at all, in fact we are most pro-Jewish country in Europe, so sending here kids with armed Mossad guards is considered as an insult
Andrew Roberts
it was you i remember the channel lol, but whatever. anyways i made my point, i guess we will just agree to disagree.
Cameron Rogers
We don't suck antisemitism with our mothers milk. What kind of scum one must be to say such thing? Oh, wait, he must be foreign affairs minister of Israel. He literally shitted on graves of all Poles who died to hide Jews from nazis during occupation, as helping Jews was punished by death only in nazi-occupied Poland out of all occupied territories.
William Carter
although it was a poor thing for him to say you cannot deny that there is some truth in it, "sucking with your mothers milk" is a saying that means that your parents and grandparents pass on something to you when you are young. and i think it's fair to say that there is a good amount of polish people who have been exposed to antisemitism from their family. also i see many things made or named in honor of polish people who protected jews from nazis so you should know that there is great respect and appreciation for them.
>In 1992 G. Lucotte and F. David were the first genetic researchers to have documented a common paternal genetic heritage between Sephardi and Ashkenazi Jews.[31][32] Another study published just a year later suggested the Middle Eastern origin of Jewish paternal lineages.
>In 2000, M. Hammer, et al. conducted a study on 1371 men and definitively established that part of the paternal gene pool of Jewish communities in Europe, North Africa and Middle East came from a common Middle East ancestral population. They suggested that most Jewish communities in the Diaspora remained relatively isolated and endogamous compared to non-Jewish neighbor populations.
James Robinson
If i must be completely honest with you, i must admit that in my case, it is partially true. But it wasn't my mother who was antisemitic, but my father, and his antisemitism was very 'unique'. It wasn't hatred towards jews per se, but rather situational thing. Example: if he went to shop to buy smth and he perceived in his own mind that the price he paid was too big, he used to call shop-owners "fucking Jews". He also used to call "Jews" politicians whom he disliked - usually pro-free-market neoliberals who didn't care about working class, even though most of them didn't have Jewish roots at all. At the same time one of his favourite politicians were Ikonowicz and Borowski, both communists of Jewish roots, and he never called them "fucking Jews", even though they actually were Jewish.
My friend in school had surname "Leib" and we always made fun of her that she is Jewess, she actually looked like one, 100% askhenazi face, but it was not a bullying, only some kind of teasing for fun.
I think that the most antisemitic is my aunt and uncle. Once during BBQ my uncle said openly that Hitler was stupid because he attacked Western Europe. If he attacked only Poland and Soviet Union, he could kill all Jews and rule the world. Then i laughed and asked my uncle why he wants all Jews being killed, and my aunt told that Jews care only about money and themselves, not about Poles, hence we shouldn't have any pity over them.
If i wanted to tell you what percent of my friends and people with whom i was in any relation exposed antisemitic views, it would be smth around 70-80%.
Isaiah Cruz
How come Israel's HDI is superior to so many European countries?
Israel wasn't a communist country like Poland for 45 years and it wasn't destroyed by war in 90%. If Poland could be a capitalist country since 1945, we would be as rich as Germany today, or maybe even richer. We were just deprived of ability of accumulation of capital for 45 years
Juan Bailey
He also filmed himself pissing on a grave once, the guy is mental. There's no point in arguing with lunatics
Jaxon Nguyen
How come Israel is an advanced economy and Poland isn't?
Because Israeli doctors don't emigrate to the West for higher salaries, and ours actually do because of this: I answered all your questions with this one post, but you decide to play dumb.
Poles are actually more intelligent than Israelis, which is confirmed by official national IQ tests, we also have incomparably better score at PISA and shit like that. But it doesn't matter because we were deprived of 45 years of accumulation of capital, and despite rapid growth in last 25 years we are still behind the West which has 3x higher salaries than Poland
Chase Lopez
How come Israel is the world #11 happiest country in the world, whereas Poland is way down below?
then why do polish people get so insulted when we imply that there is an antisemitism problem?
Dylan Johnson
Maybe because you have dumber population. Poles never show in public that they are happy. Even if they are having a great day, and somebody asks them "how are you?", they usually answer with "better not ask" and make such face expression as if they felt pain.
Xavier Mitchell
>then why do polish people get so insulted when we imply that there is an antisemitism problem?
Because it is not real antisemitism, just verbal thing. A Jewish tourist would be objectively much safer in Poland than in any Western country nowadays
1/3 of this article explains that this "Polish" collaboration with nazis was in fact Jewish collaboration.
The Germans set up Jewish-run governing bodies in Jewish communities and ghettos – Judenräte (Jewish councils) that served as self-enforcing intermediaries for managing Jewish communities and ghettos; and Jewish ghetto police (Jüdischer Ordnungsdienst), which functioned as auxiliary police forces tasked with maintaining order and combating crime.[90] The Germans used the Judenrats to register Jews for deportation to ghettos;[91] and the Jewish ghetto police, to disrupt Jewish resistance in the ghettos and to facilitate deportation of Jews to German concentration camps.[90] Additionally, Jewish collaborationist groups such as Żagiew and Group 13 worked directly for the German Gestapo, informing on Polish resistance efforts to save Jews.[92][93]
Luke Howard
Polish Death Camps were run by the Poland govevrnment during the Holocaust.
The Germans merely supervised them.
Wyatt Nelson
You won't make me angry with this if it is your intention.
Hudson Kelly
>not caring about jewish well being Seems like you Polack do exactly what your grandparents have done
Blake Gutierrez
By the way, i bet you wouldn't have balls to tell this straight to my face, because i could punch your teeth inside your throat if you did.
OP is obsessed with Israel and Jews but I can assure you, that polish people in general are not interested in Israel. Big city dwellers are interested in Jewish heritage and history, up to the point that some are converting to Judaism. Anti-Semitic attitudes were common in 90s. Some people on the right are still having them, but it's getting rare. The recent quarrel was mostly provoked by some uneducated people: Polish ones, who consider some primitive peasants to be totally innocent and Israeli ones, who doesn't know shit about IIWW except Shoah.
Chase Peterson
> primitive peasants of what nationality?
Jason Gonzalez
Polish speaking ones. They were subject of trials after IIWW.
Ryan Collins
If you want to know my opinion, it is incredibly weird that Jews try to remove guilt from Germans and push it onto Poles. It is very dumb move, because Germany will always have more money than Poland, and much bigger ability to pay. So it is better to refresh German guilt and force this country to pay again, after it refused to do this on such huge scale like in previous decades, imo. Poland is only a neocolonial and suplementary economy of Germany, moreover Poles are very stubborn and Jews are rather not very liked in here, delicately speaking, so a chance that we would pay even one dollar to Jews is thinner than expecting Arabs paying Jews compensations.
The other option is that zionists concluded that Israel might be an unperspective creation in new geopolitical circumstances and they decide to do to us the same what they did to Palestinians: remove us from our land and take it over. This scenario could be hard to make too, without German and Russian support, and why should they support creation of jewish state in the middle of Europe?
So, i think that the best choice for Jews would be just to shut up about everything related to Poland and Poles. If you manage to do this, we could lobby for Israel in the EU a bit.
Jace Nelson
By the way, i also think that if Jews continue to change version of history and push guilt for Holocaust from one nation to another, people around the world could finally stop beliving that Holocaust ever happened. They already do, that's why Jews in Hollywood must make such cringe movies like "Denial"
Eli Perry
they can't even speak Hebrew properly.
Elijah Johnson
In general I disagree with OP. But he's got a point: you've got a problem with Holocaust denial (just lurk at /pol), we've got a problem with false blaming for it, while being one of the IIWW victims.
Jordan Cruz
>are converting to Judaism the middle east has more than enough polish rats tho
Jose Green
>If you want to know my opinion, it is incredibly weird that Jews try to remove guilt from Germans and push it onto Poles. It is very dumb move, because Germany will always have more money than Poland, and much bigger ability to pay.
Moreover, probability that Poles eventually become German is 100x bigger than scenario of Germans becoming Polish in the future. So Jews are actually depriving themselves of any kind of revenue when they whitewash Germans and blame Poles for German-nazi crimes.
