It's time the EU and the U.S. went on their separate ways, we have nothing in common anymore.
All America cares about is money, at the expense of other countries, the lives and health of their own citizens, the environment, or their alliance with us.
Europe needs new allies. It's time we turned towards East to do trade and do business with China, as we did long before America was ever mistakenly colonized.
Holy shit you are being ironic but I am starting to suspect half of this board agrees with you.
>this board
Haha, good one.Try the entire continent.
dw.com
Only Eastern Euros like Poland and the Baltics still like America, but only because of American fear mongering how Russia will swallow them whole
Wait euros are so obsessed with appearances that they will abandon USA because trump is corrupt and vulgar? Are euros that conceited that is all it takes to make massive geopolitical decisions is for a one term president to say mean things? What is wrong with europe?
Go on then
nah, trump just validated Europeans view that America doesn't have friends, only a means to an end. if that's the case, why don't the Europeans do the same? use China as a means to get better deals from USA. after all, if everybody is simply a means to an end, why rely on America?
Nobody likes China and it seems unlikely Europe is going to 'ally' with them (impossible actually) but neither is the EU feeling like blindly following Trump into some trade war with China considering the US is the biggest trade partner of China yet they expect the EU just blindly follow suit.
>Europe needs new allies
No we don't. We have to whip the Brits and Shitalians in line and from there on build towards our own future. If anything the last years have proven friends are worth jack shit
But these are popular opinion surveys. This is how people feel about the US in general. Has all of europe drunk the koolaid that trump=usa forever? Either most euros were just looking for an excuse, or these surveys are bull.
no, it's just that Trump has manifested European suspicion about their relationship. Obama was the same, it's just he wasn't so in your face about grievances with the EU.
>Wait euros are so obsessed with appearances that they will abandon USA because trump is corrupt and vulgar?
If it was just Trump, it would be fine, but Europeans have been keeping keeping a list of all the shitty, moronic and vile things America had done to us or others and it's getting really fucking long.
Also America hasn't had a good president for like a century now so it's not just about that. Obama was terrible, Bush was a fucking retard, and Clinton.. yeah enough said.
why do you care about this
Well good thing the EU has a strong leadership and clear vision to where they want to go and do.
Oh wait.
Right now their ambassador is demanding 1/5th of an already overcrowded Schiphol airport is being handed over to the TSA because of ‘remember WW2’.
Also no chance of any European border clearance on American soil btw
>Europe needs new allies
>Europe needs to grow balls and brainz.
fix'd
lol didnt Europe give Obama a nobel peace prize?
Europeans are absolutely retarded, they have zero self awareness at all
I think you'll find a big part of people (especially german) that don't really give a shit about Chinese politics, but are genuinely offended by Donald Trumps remarks, I doubt those numbers reflect the true state of the European Union, even if the Trump administration has done their best to sever our ties.
You sound like some butthurt little magapede behind a proxy. How you people combine this victim mentality together with demanding tributes from ‘friends’ is beyond me
Yeah and Obama is remembered fondly while Trump will go down as the biggest clown of the 21st century.
Obama also didn’t call Europe ‘foes’
This seems the most accurate response
What proxy? All I am saying is these surveys imply that Euros really hate the US and I think it may be for superficial reasons. That is it.
what does that have to do with the EU? you think the USA should give the EU a strong leadership and clear vision? Europe can make decisions on their own without having to bow American interests.
Dislike is not hate and the US government has been severely disliked ever since the Cold War because of a constant stream of foreign interventions and a somewhat strange attitude towards their ‘allies’ including spying on Angela Merkel’s phone
Bye
Dude, majority of Americans voted for Trump. Those Americans aren't going away. Those voters = usa
Anti-Americans are cringe.
>majority of Americans voted for Trump
that's not true
the media literally cried about that for months, he won by electoral votes but was beaten in the popular vote by a pretty decent margin
Germany spied on the white house for years. Everyone spies on each other. The Merkel incident was business as usual outside of the media spectacle.
This. The EU needs to get its shot together and stop waiting for another global power to hold its hand
East Europeans are American useful idiots
What you call business we call backstabbing and bad practice. Also a poor foundation for a relationship.
Lmao forgot that you had that kind of stupid system where majority doesn't necessarily mean a win. Nevertheless a large population of Americans voted for Trump and that is enough to judge a country imo.
Maybe it's related to the fact that the head of the American government and its senior members directly and publicly criticize German foreign, military, trade and even interior policy and attack its government in the most un-diplomatical fashion imaginable, not even worded in form of formal press statements or diplomatic cables but crazy twitter rants. Vital German industry sectors do not only get threatened with protectionist measures but even private companies get aggressively singled out. Then the US sends an ambassador that admits to being appointed because he is meant to meddle in internal political affairs, support opposition groups and subvert the German government from within and now we are supposed to pretend that the US is not a hostile nation? Sorry but not even our worst enemies are treating us this shitty. No one gives a crap about your internal politics or China's policies for that matter but China at least shares our foreign policy, trade and yes even environmental policy objectives. Japan already went a step further and joined JAFTA.
That is not how it works, Trump was an extreme reaction to obama and clinton, he will be a 1 term pres and no one will care.
No but in a choice between US and China then I think I know where I would rather be, do you?
The US and EU are the defacto ruling zones of the world. To see them separate even culturally would be massive. To see one lean towards china would be catastrophe. The US is a dick yes, but is china a better alternative?
>Germans spying on the White House is acceptable
>but Americans spying on the Chancellor is backstabbing and a betrayal
Americans could fairly call a number of German/EU actions backstabbing as well. Neither group is purely a victim here, and there are legitimate grievances on both sides.
Dude an ambassador saying nice things about your right wing party is not a crisis, jesus. And trump is NOT the US. It seems you care more for decorum than the actual geopolitics that unite US and germany
>US and China
Whoever supports the free trade, the Iran agreement and the Paris accord. And right now that's China.
>Germany spied on the white house for years.
[citation needed] This never happened.
The new world was a mistake.
>Dude an ambassador saying nice things about your right wing party is not a crisis, jesus.
It literally is. Any ambassador from any other country would've immediately kicked out. You don't know how diplomacy works.
>And trump is NOT the US.
>Trump didn't do nuffing.
Trump is the democratically elected representative of the American people who has near absolute control about America's foreign policy. Straight-up delusional.
You say that but the german agencies literally work for you.
The German foreign intelligence agency was literally founded as a branch of the CIA after the war.
>(((Yen Nee Lee)))
I wonder who could be behindthois article
>Germany spied on the whitehouse
You’re making that up. This is like talking to a Russian shill in 2014
Maybe he's fondly remembered in Europe and Canada, but he fucked up in other parts of the world.
>the US will have trump era policies forever from now on it will never change.
>China never spies on anyone or demands things from them.
>China is better for the environment than the US
It really seems you guys care more about appearances than substance, but you are entitled to your opinion.
eurofaggots actually trust china more haha this timeline sucks euros are so fucking dumb
We'll be fine in a couple years when some inoffensive blue dog takes office. We were hearing the same thing in the Bush years.
>substance
What kind of substance is there behind spying on allies and demanding things from them ‘or else’?
And since when is China so evil? Just 2 years ago we thanked them for making cheap stuff and laughed at their security tape footage
The US is and has always been an evil nation. It's about time we separate from them
github.com
>Asian wants to shift Europe closer to Asia
Unsurprising from a H*nnoid.
Based.
Look if you're not gonna breed with your women then send them to us. I know you are sexually frustrated but that's not our fault.
>>No but in a choice between US and China then I think I know where I would rather be, do you?
this is a false dichotomy pushed by typically pro-americans. not following the USA does not lead to a inverse scenario where people follow China. Europe needs to look out for their interests, and if that includes developing mutually beneficial relations with China, that's the right call.
>Spiegel weekly reported Thursday
That makes it official.
>the US will have trump era policies forever from now on it will never change.
>Trump is not to blame because a successor might undo the mess that he has already created
LMAO. The mental gymnastics, astonishing.
>China never spies on anyone or demands things from them.
No one has ever said this.
>China is better for the environment than the US
Are you just spouting memes? At this point? Explain to me what major and substantial climate policies were enacted by the current Trump administration.
>It really seems you guys care more about appearances than substance, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Probably the worst comment so far. Ok now I'll spell it out for:
The German economy is an export-oriented economy that relies on trade. The most paramount foreign policy objective of the German state is to ensure free and frictionless trade within the multilateral framework of the current world order. Any direct or indirect threat to this framework and free trade in general poses a great danger to my country's wealth and those of its citizens. Trump, a protectionist nationalist with his trade wars, currently personifies the greatest hazard to this. Thankfully the steel conflict could get resolved thanks to the intervention by the European Commission but the current trade war with China still and already has pushed the German economy into a recession. Thanks Trump!
Exactly. That's why they managed to negotiate the JAFTA while Trump still can't work out the negotiates with China.
This all started from surveys asking who they prefer US or China. In my opinion, China is worse. You are entitled to your opinion, but all i have seen in this thread is US bashing and no China praising. It seems to me that negative press about the US is the cause. That is just my opinion. Now tell me why China is a better partner than the US in the long run please, socially, economically, and culturally please.
OF COURSE the ideal is a stronger europe etc. but please humour me.
All you have said are Trump policies are bad. How does that warrant shifting away from the US towards china in the long run when he leaves in 1 year?
The EU likes to portray itself as this neutral third party, a counterbalance to America and China, but in reality Europeans are for sale to the highest bidder.
>NATO? Yes please! Give us free protection! America best ally!
>Russia has cheaper oil? Gimme! What sanctions?
>China has 5G? We want it now!
There is no consistency in terms of allies and rivals.
>nah, trump just validated Europeans view that America doesn't have friends, only a means to an end.
>Nobody likes China and it seems unlikely Europe is going to 'ally' with them (impossible actually) but neither is the EU feeling like blindly following Trump into some trade war with China considering the US is the biggest trade partner of China yet they expect the EU just blindly follow suit.
>Whoever supports the free trade, the Iran agreement and the Paris accord. And right now that's China.
These. America has demonstrated time and again that it will only uphold its end of a bargain if it feels like it. How the hell are we supposed to make contracts or build a working relationship with people like that?
>mfw europeans become slaves to the bugmen in 2040
fuck yankee cunts, but sadly our country isn't doing any better atm so whether we've got yankees or not, we're fucked
but still, fuck off you yank scum
ITT. Euros who don’t understand that they’re no longer a world power
Dude, how naive are you? Are you implying that the US will just undo everything Trump did after he is gone the moment another president is there? He has elected for a reason by people who will still be there who will still support the same America first policies when he is gone. Trump is not the mother of all problems, he is just a symptom of something that has been seriously going wrong in America today.
This, literally just the German-French union picking and choosing what it wants. We ought to just reduce our defense commitments to Poland and the Baltic States and let the rest of the wannabe-powers fend for themselves.
>NATO? Yes please! Give us free protection! America best ally!
Number of times European countries have enacted article 5: 0 times
Number of times America has enacted article 5: 1 times
>This, literally just the German-French union picking and choosing what it wants.
Exactly and making and shaping your own foreign policy decisions is the hallmark of an independent power. You can't whine about it as much as you want.
Because trump was a fluke! It is clear we disagree on this point, but I also believe you are naive with regards to china in many ways. Lets just agree to disagree.
ITT Yankees who don't undestand that they aren't the only world power anymore
you cannot objectively state what nation will be a better trading partner in the future. the future is uncertain. how can China be a better partner than the US? easily, create trade that is seen by their respective parties as fair and mutually beneficial, it's that easy. social and cultural benefits are meaningless. don't like chinese culture? don't follow it. don't like european culture? don't follow it. it's that simple. not liking the USA does not necessarily mean people will like China more. because the USA is in a dominate position perceptually. the balls in their court to not fuck it, and lately, they've been fucking up.
>Europe needs new allies.
China will fuck us hard
you don't fluke into getting almost half the vote of the American people friendo.
How many troops did you commit? How much money do you contribute to NATO? Germany is one of the worst offenders in this aspect, especially considering there are tens of thousands of American troops stationed in Germany.
Right now it’s looking like Trump will most probably get re-elected, the Democratic Party candatates are either too far left to be viable, too old too campaign well, or too divisive to poise a substantial challenge to him.
Lol we are just tired of being dragged into your sick white wars you sons of bitches, leave us alone.
ITT euros seriously think that China loses a meaningful challenged to the us.
>Because trump was a fluke!
Sorry but this is incredibly naive. Trump is not a fluke at all. The internal political process that culminated into his election will not be undone when he gets removed. People already thought that America went crazy by electing Bush but fucking Trump? What makes you so sure that things won't even get worse? Like someone just as sinister but only half as incompetent for example? EU can't rely on this sort of uncertainty from its most major ally and has to vocalize its own and independent foreign policy from now on.
Trump is a bad president, but his election wasn't a fluke. He got elected because his positions appealed to Americans. Clearly most Americans think there is a problem with our EU relationship, though they may not agree with his retarded plans for fixing it.
3 million people voted for hillary than they did for trump
>especially considering there are tens of thousands of American troops stationed in Germany.
So what? Did you buy in the hoax that American troops serve German interests and defense? Lmao, this is ridiculous. From whom exactly are these troops Germany protecting from? Germany faces no military threat from any neighboring nation. Russia? How are a few 10 thousands soldiers going to stop the Russian army? Loool.
Listen up kiddo, American troops in Europe only serve the interest of America. Their major purpose of them and that of their infrastructure is to provide assistance as major logistics hubs for your middle-eastern adventures. Nothing else.
Fortunately our country in not dictated by the moronic will of nyc and la.
As an example, when trump alone decided to start his trade wars, the congress could have realised that the law allowing him had to be changed.
But they didn't, because the institutions as a whole agree with him.
If they weren't there for your benefit, then your government would ask them to leave. Germany uses American military power as a crutch to decrease it's own spending.
And that’s a good thing.
Exactly, the Republican party has changed for good which started with the emergence of the tea party and culminated with it dancing to the tunes of the Trumpists.
Good thing we don't live in a brainlet-tier "majority of popular vote wins" system, then, because Hillary's "well let's just visit a few of these big liberal strongholds and then zergrush the polls" strategy would win and anything outside of CA, TX, FL, and NY would almost never matter.
They provide some minor economical stimulation for a few towns in the immediate area. That's the only reason they are kept. They serve absolutely zero geopolitical purpose for the German defense.
CHINA isn't demanding that Europe changes it's policy on anything
USA is demananding that Europe stops using Chinese tech, increases tarrifs on European cars, makes fun of European politicians, HUMILIATES countries that don't go into American imperialist wars (2003 France).
CHINA might be worse than the US when it comes to corruption and domestic policies, but they do not demand anything from Europe to match it.
USA wants Europe to become exactly like the USA
This is the main difference
Who do you think is going to have to liberate them when the time comes? That's right, us. We'll be forced to die, this time in the millions, because Europeans didn't listen to our warnings.
states outside washington/california/texas/NY already dont matter, the flyovers are parasites and should be kicked from the union
Nah, leave them to their fate's what I say. We have our own problems to worry about at home. And Asia's more important, anyway. Europe is trying to be the screaming kid at the table trying to get attention back, but the pivot to Asia is the right choice.
>Who do you think is going to have to liberate them when the time comes?
Lol, the whole thread is literally about Europeans accusing Americans being stuck in their Cold War mindset and you have nothing better to do that spouting direct unfiltered fantasies from that time.
>HUMILIATES countries that don't go into American imperialist wars (2003 France).
Great, can't wait.
>The Great Plains that are some of the most productive farm land in the world are irrelevant.
Just because your country is a disgusting urban shithole doesn’t mean the world is fag.
>lol didnt Europe give Obama a nobel peace prize?
Europe isn't a country and the Peace Prize is a farce.
You can guess the IQ/Education centers by this map.
based retard
Yes. Tell your politicians please to stop meddling in our internal affairs. We won't take any lectures from a shithole that can't even keep its government running, provide healthcare to its citizens or balance its national budget.
Germany has no defense. Germany's army is a complete joke due to lack of funding.
