Mfw all prottie countries are becoming atheist

Lolno, they're all whores. Literally from the church to the baile funk in less than an hour.

well the conservative faction is the one which wants to excommunicate me so...

lol are you a gay priest?

no, im more trad than burke and friends which is something they dont tolerate

>Worshipping a Jew from the middle east that has nothing to do with your culture

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oh so FSSPX or sedevacantist?

sedes arent catholics so question is redundant

You're not wrong, SSPX, you're just unauthorized

>mfw his country would be an incan dependency if it wasn't for catholicism
Well the only thing I know is that FSSPX disregards Vatican II, which Ratzinger also somewhat hated but managed to somewhat reform it. What do FSSPX do right now 2bqf? Organizes Latin Masses which are respected by the church altogether

>What do FSSPX do right now 2bqf?
from what i see they are trying to grow numbers and open up schools around the world and build chapels and churches of their own
in france and switzerland they are already pretty scary in influence
>Organizes Latin Masses which are respected by the church altogether
not rly, motuproprium was itnended to be against them ,so they open normie trad masses and drag people away from opposing vat2
sspx is hated and surpressed still (except in france and switzerland where they are afraid of them lel), a bit easier tho cause francis defends them constantly for his 5d chess with conservative faction

LatAm is becoming Protestard, though it wound necessarily be a large change, considering that you to are two sides of the same coin, materialistic and fearmongering.
Either Orthodoxy or death. Only these two are left.
Nyeah, I've seen you on Jow Forums. You can fuck off back there.

Orthodoxy kept losing strength, what are you talking about?
What happened to the original patriarchies?

>Orthodorks
Putin's lapdogs. But at least your sacraments are valid.

>not rly, motuproprium was itnended to be against them ,so they open normie trad masses and drag people away from opposing vat2
What do you mean by that m8, you mean Benedict XVI motuproprium regarding the Latin Mass was only intended to curb SSPX influence? Also what are the differences between a normal catholic church and a FSSPX church? Pls eggsblain im interested hue or gib links
>LatAm is becoming Protestard, though it wound necessarily be a large change, considering that you to are two sides of the same coin, materialistic and fearmongering.
It isn't lmao, it's becoming baptist, which is a hollow bible worshipping which is literally doomed to failure, as it is already failing, it's literally a mix between calvinist "salvation" and presbyterian puritanism which relies on political support to exist. Whereas the catholic church thrives on the liturgy and theology. Hence they are unironically triggering catholics into ditching liberation theology, liberal church and forcing them into traditionalism

But you guys are heretics too.
>following some old man in Rome as if he's chosen by God
What did he mean by this

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Glorious Mapuche never allowed disgusting Incas past the Maule River.

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>we're proud barbarians
Incans were the ultimate American civilization

Hahaha
>The Indigenous Peoples of Latin America, historically they were defeated military fairly completely before the outsiders of European origin. Except for the indigenous Peoples of Chile the Mapuches they were the only one in this continent to defeat a European army; and for 350 years keep they autonomy of they territory. The failures of the most civilized cultures in this continent like the Incas and the Aztec to oppose a serious military resistance is evident in retrospect, the Aztec resisted for three years - the Mapuches for 350 years of successful resistance - The Incas of Peru for instance, succumbed without a struggle; Peru was one of the easiest conquest the Spaniards ever made, there does not seem to have been one pitched battle in the field between the Spaniards and the Inca's armies. In a short time the Spanish conquered the only two civilized region of the New World: the Aztec Empire of Mexico, conquered by Cortes in 1521, and the empire of Peru, conquered by Pizarro in 1531-1533. They did it with few casualty in Combat. The only military defeat that the Spanish encountered in the America was in Chile. Don Pedro de Valdivia was defeated by the Mapuches forces, and killed in December 25,1553, with his entire force.

Source worldhistoria.com/mapuches-better-warrriors-than-aztecs_topic124391.html

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>Benedict XVI motuproprium regarding the Latin Mass was only intended to curb SSPX influence?
yup, jp2 tried to surpress them, but it didnt work, they made sanctioned trad masses which agree with modern theology to divert people from sspx
>Also what are the differences between a normal catholic church and a FSSPX church?
theology and politics, culture, normal church basically accepts modern values, while sspx is for ye olde church

Any books or links that I can read about it?

Also what is the biggest thing SSPX neglect about Vatican II? Interfaith discussion? New mass?

>FSSPX
Isnt Mel Gibson one?

a ton of stuff rly, its about rejecting modern values and ways of the modern world church accepts
so against french revolution and enlightenment, against other religions and tolerance, much more conservative attitude etc. etc.
they are saying that result of problem in the church is incorrect doctrine not incorrect interpretation of it
you can read it on their site, they explain theology much better than i can

>Either Orthodoxy or death. Only these two are left.
Orthodox lost everything to muslims.

>so against french revolution and enlightenment, against other religions and tolerance, much more conservative attitude etc. etc.
Yeah but that is exactly what TFP/Steve Bannon/Cdl Raymond Burke supports tho. There is even a brazilian manifesto of the 60s about it

no no no
steve bannon/burke and stuff only belong to more conservative interpretations of regular catholicism post vatican 2, they all endorse it

sspx is against vatican 2, modern way of life in general
also the very fact that liberal leftist occurances happen in the church are cause current church beliefs allow them and conservatives want to uphold those, uphold french revolution, enlightenment legacy, emancipation of the sexes, oppose religious rule over politics etc.

>mfw all prottie countries are becoming atheist
>mfw Nothern Europe will soon be either catholic again or muslim
Found your problem. You assume for some reason that secular people will pick up a religion, when in fact, they don't.

ill have you example
compare fall of marriages in catholic world - its caused not by accident like conservatives would think and that we only need to find true meaning of current dogma, but by change in general teachings and rules about marriage which everyone accepts - both conservative and liberal

Renounce your King in Rome and follow the one true Catholic faith!

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Orthodox church has nothing to do with Putin you absolute retard, Putin and Russia's Orthodox are literally sperging out about the Ecumenical Patriarch giving Ukraine their own Patriarch.

>also the very fact that liberal leftist occurances happen in the church are cause current church beliefs allow them and conservatives want to uphold those, uphold french revolution, enlightenment legacy, emancipation of the sexes, oppose religious rule over politics etc.
Yes, but they are explicitly against it. I mean really. They even call the current liberalization, protestantization of the church literally the anti-christ. The same with all the communist/gay influence. I mean the one thing I can see them being truly opposed is anti-semitism, which Cdl Raymond Burke and others support Israel and their influence over the neoconservative regime. Which I think in France/Switzerland is probably really against this thought.
>compare fall of marriages in catholic world - its caused not by accident like conservatives would think and that we only need to find true meaning of current dogma, but by change in general teachings and rules about marriage which everyone accepts - both conservative and liberal
Lol, no. At least from the TFP manifesto, which got really strong ties to Raymond Burke, it explicitly says it's due to fall of morality and liturgy of the church. They are explicit in saying that the dogmas aren't wrong nor need to be found
I mean really, read here:
tfp.org/revolution-and-counter-revolution/

look im not talking about tfp - they are super weird

talkinga bout regular conservatives like burke - they explicitly adhere to modern rules set up by second vatican, new revision of canon law
just look at some things:
collegiality
religious liberty
ecumenism
marriage

>Still thinking in materialist dimensions
this is all so tiresome.

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>this is all so tiresome.
You talk like a fag, and your shits all retarded.

Meh, I need to read more about it. But even Pope Francis trying to liberalize the communion to divorced people is being looked bad about it. Also religious liberty is clearly freemasonry law

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i dont think you are aware of full extent of crisis in the church

>You assume for some reason that secular people will pick up a religion, when in fact, they don't.
They have to, even if it is the religion of politically correctness. No human being can live apart of the metaphysical and morality. Hence why there is such an agenda to impose some kind of guilty, compared to catholic guilty, towards them

I am not, I know that Paul VI and Vatican II were really bad, but I've read Ratzinger theology and his prediction about a more simple and spiritual church and it honestly makes sense regarding the crisis the church is.

Have you ever considered that temporary setbacks or any kind of setbacks, such as losing a war, are idiotic to take into consideration when we talk about a confession, which should be judged according to the doctrines and teachings? Unless you are just a non-believer and merely consider it as a too for unification of groups of people and nothing more?
Also, which part of "world will hate you" isnt clear?

Bullshit, those countries are majority secular already and the trendline is clear, even more secular. No religious revival in sight.

You dont mind literally worshipping a middle eastern man as god?

US Catholic here, we love traditions, aka forcing kids to go to church.

You've lost Ireland, though.

To be quite frank the biggest problem with the Orthodox faith is regarding Neoplatonism and its proneness towards Gnosticism, which Putin and others and making use of it to destroy the Russian Patriarchate. Thank god the Greek patriarchate is somewhat free of this shit. I hope the schism can be over someday

I fear skydaddy is a bit of a dated concept in western Europe.

No
Again, stop thinking about stuff with simplistic materialistic dimensions.
>To be quite frank the biggest problem with the Orthodox faith is regarding Neoplatonism and its proneness towards Gnosticism
This is the first time I've heard of someone stating this opinion it to be honest.
Here at least, there's hardly something similar, so that may be the case, although there were some priests with similar statements (such as "everything about matter is bad" and similar. And some fixation on Pseudo-Dionysus), but thats mostly because of the lacks of education which was caused by communistic times after which focus was set on quantity rather than quality.
Nevertheless, All I am saying is that we shouldnt form our opinions from purely materialistic perspectives.

m8, have you ever considered that faith and religion can be anything if you actually believe in it? Most of these first world countries have taken as their gods literally debauchery and moral relativism which are controlled by the current agenda imposed by the media. Just the thought of thinking something is inherently bad by design, just like Neo-Nazi movements or other shit, is characteristic of primitive tribal religions, which first world countries follow nowadays by thinking it isn't religion at all. You guys are civilized as long as there are traits of christian rationality among your countries, but judging by the next generation, I don't it's going to last long

>Yadayadayada
>organized religion is dead in developed Europe and it wont come back anytime soon

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>Nevertheless, All I am saying is that we shouldnt form our opinions from purely materialistic perspectives.
Obviously, that is a core doctrine within Catholic-Orthodox churches. The only differences are regarding the application of the sacraments and the tradition by philosophical and theological prospects
Oh wow, you literally proved my point. Thanks m8

>Oh wow, you literally proved my point.
No you dumb fuck, your point was
>mfw Nothern Europe will soon be either catholic again or muslim
And neither is gonna happen. You're thread is stupid and you know shit about Europe. Thanks for trying.

Based and redpilled.

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I was talking about my last reply, but meh, I find it funny that you can't see that hatred and blinding yourself towards the truth and only viewing your own point of view are one of the core sources of strength of pagan religions, but whatever you say m8. Enjoy Islam :)

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well ratzinger is a person who was one of main liberal voices of vatican 2 council and holds liberal theological positions..
i think you are being misled by phony conservatives into not seeing church crisis caused by them

More wives, your Grace?

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>well ratzinger is a person who was one of main liberal voices of vatican 2 council and holds liberal theological positions.
Wow, this is the first time I heard that, if anything what I said about simple and spiritual was about being faithful towards the traditions and liturgy of the church, in contrast to how the church is filled with politics and exterior agendas nowadays. Well anyway I need to read more

>Bannon
>TFP
Lol

>Catholic again
Haha, no.
>or muslim
I bet you'd like that papist.

theres some document he wrote which condemns the pre vatican church for not opening itself towards otehrs like atheists and stuff like that
you can find it if you look up

and as i said, its not about approach, but about whole worldview, about doctrine

oh, and ratzinger also openly praises the french revolution in his work

There's nothing wrong with Vatican II.

Well, thats basically what Kalomiros said in his book. People like him do actually believe that God exists, at least at their hearts. They just hate him due to daddy issues. Hence all the "skydad" comments, that doesnt even serve as a normal insult even. I am actually happy when I remember that we are children of God.

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based

based, Catholic is already the largest religion in Germany

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>Catholic is already the largest religion in Germany
Because of the decrease of Protestant percentage and increase of irreligious. Same with Netherlands. So not really a big achievement

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religious people always will win in the end cause demographics - fundies have lot of kids, while more liberal people have few, if any
but thats long from now

still based

>Finland’s Catholic community, which stands at about 15,000 and includes about 30 priests, represents a small minority in a country where 73 percent of the population of 5.5 million is Lutheran and 26 percent is atheist. While the number of Catholics is growing because of immigration, the church has little additional income to support itself, Tervaportti explained.

cruxnow.com/church-in-europe/2019/01/04/finnish-bishop-remains-hospitalized-with-serious-head-injury-after-fall/

What’s up with that? I assume they’re the same breed that voted for Bols, but where did they come from?

пpaвocлaвиe или cмepть? чтo ж, в ближaйшиe 50 лeт я тoчнo нe yмpy

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fuck these Rome bitches, btw

by this logic in every european country there should a majority of the population heavily religious

Agnosticism > atheism

from the failure of the catholic church here trying to implement literally marxism into the liturgy for like 40 years. But nowadays a rebirth is kinda happening due to bolso and due to the evangelicals being ironically more traditional that the catholic church, triggering catholics into traditionalism

>cause demographics -
Apparently they don't. They are loosing numbers every year and are a minority in several countries already.

look at israel with charedim
thats europe in a few centuries, it obviously lasts for a while cause widespread liberalization is fairly recent to europe

cause most catholics now in census are non practicing liberal caffeteria catholics
we dont differentiate between them and actual religious catholics who are much less number nowadays
same way france will soon become overfilled with ultra orthodox jews

will read it m8, thanks

i probably overexaggerated
he didnt "praise" french revolution
it was more like - catholic chruch ignored good stuff about french revolution ideals

>catholic chruch ignored good stuff about french revolution ideals
But all that was good from that was borrowed largely from Christianity anyways, so whats the point?
Rousseau practically plagiarized Calvin.

thats not the point
point is that french revolution stands against everything catholicism is supposed to be and supposed conservative embraces it while playing saint in front of his flock

but israel was always majority jewish since its beginning and its not a first world country.
In Europe non secular christians were 99%+ and shouldn't have became the minority according to your logic

Yeah, from what I get it is that conservatives are actually in accord with the fact that the tyranny that sprung from the french revolution is a bad thing, but the actual secularization and the revolution that brought it is even more bad as if the chaos brought even more chaos. Hence the principle of subsidiarity that came with Pope Pious XI to address the absolute kings

*that the tyranny that sprung the french revolution is a bad thing

it was jewish, but no ultra religious extremely anti modernist "modesty patrol" jewish
and it is first world in all measure, its population are euro transplants
>and shouldn't have became the minority according to your logic
they have, because modernization happened recently, now when modernization trend isnt that big in postmodern era this 1% will gradually grow
just like charedim did in israel
but eventually it will happen, even if it takes centuries - first in france obviously cause its the hotbed of religious fundamentalism of all major religions

>traditional
Can you elaborate on this meaningless buzzword?

thing is that those modern conservatives like burke and ratzinger reject that and go in line with vatican 2 and liberalization in whose context they represent tehmselves as conservative
its like being right wing of what once used to be left wing

Well, the ones against Pope-Francis that have more conservative world views
Uhm they don't, they want the principle of subsidiarity at all costs. I mean the church still respects that, I mean it is still in the Pope John VI catechism lmao

Lmao i mean John Paul II catechism lmao