Why are Americans so butthurt at the idea of a European army?
Why are Americans so butthurt at the idea of a European army?
Jeremiah Myers
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Daniel Cooper
bump this thread because at least it is not a general.
Connor Baker
The US has warned that greatermilitary co-operation between EU countries would be a “dramatic reversal” of three decades of transatlantic defence integration, in the latest sign of the fraying relationship between Washington and Brussels.
In a letter seen by the Financial Times, Washington threatened retaliation if the Europeans pressed ahead with rules that it said would restrict the involvement of US companies in pan-European military projects.
The correspondence was sent this month to Federica Mogherini, the EU’s top diplomat, by Ellen Lord, US under secretary of defence, and Andrea Thompson, under secretary of state.
It said that Washington was “deeply concerned” that approval of the rules for the European Defence Fund and the Permanent Structured Cooperation, or Pesco, launched in 2017 to plug gaps in Europe’s military power, would “produce duplication, non-interoperable military systems, diversion of scarce defence resources and unnecessary competition between Nato and the EU”.
“It is vital...that independent EU initiatives like EDF and Pesco do not detract from Nato activities and Nato-EU co-operation,” the letter said.
Washington said the rules for the EDF contained “poison pills” that would prevent companies based outside the EU, including the US, from participating in military projects.
The letter also warned that the US could respond with its own restrictions on EU groups. “It is clear that similar reciprocally imposed US restrictions would not be welcomed by our European partners and allies, and we would not relish having to consider them in the future,” the letter said.
Gordon Sondland, US ambassador to the EU, said in March that if the bloc persisted with its “stubbornness or protectionism” on its multibillion-euro joint military projects, the US would consider various responses unlikely to “be positive for either side”.
Aiden Scott
The broadside will stoke anxiety among EU diplomats, who think the US has misinterpreted what European military upgrades are intended to achieve.
“There is a lot of misunderstanding of how the European Union works,” said one EU member state official.“They are reading language in it that is fencing the European continent off from American co-operation possibilities — and that’s not true.”
Ursula von der Leyen, Germany’s defence minister, said Europeans “are doing what our American friends have been demanding we do for years. Our task now is to convince our allies that Nato will only profit from the efforts to create a European Defence Union,” she said.
Twenty-five of the bloc’s 28 member states have signed up to Pesco, which involves projects ranging from a spy school to a new generation of battlefield missiles. The EDF is set to receive €13bn in the EU’s next seven-year budget.
EU officials said Pesco was a response to longstanding demands from Washington for Europe to contribute more to Nato, which have grown louder since Donald Trump became president. The EU said it wanted to improve its military capabilities without undermining Nato’s responsibility for Europe’s collective defence.
But US officials argue that the EU’s military plans could weaken Nato rather than enhance it. Some Nato officials also worry that initiatives such as Pesco could duplicate the alliance’s work and discriminate against non-EU members.
The letter to Ms Mogherini also attacked rules that require ownership of intellectual property arising from an EU project to remain with the recipient in Europe, even after the work is complete. Washington argued this would discourage non-EU companies from bidding.
Julian Parker
>european military will buy european weapons, brian shekelson will be very mad his high tech crap wont sell
>european military cannot be used to shoot goatherders in bumfuck nowhere to assist american imperialism
like a bully its afraid the little guys will band togather and stand up to him
Cameron Gonzalez
Bump
Camden Peterson
I think that NATO should be disbanded so Russian bulls can take over e*rope
Hudson Parker
their military industrial complex depends on small fractured european armies that don't produce their own weapons.
A european army would likely mean europeans would manufacture their own arms which would be disastrous for american gun makers
Owen Peterson
The way it is worded makes it look like US wants to be in the cool kids gang (the EU defense system)
Asher Howard
based
Owen Morales
>GOD YOU NEVER DO ANYTHING!! DO I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING?
>*does something on your own*
>OH MY GOD DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT ME? WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I'M THE ONE WHO'S SUPPOSE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT
america is like a bad girlfriend
Joshua Myers
>fuck you European leeches, spend more on defence so we don't have to defend you!
>ok America, we'll start our own army and arms industry
>n-no, no! you were supposed to stay dependent on us! fucking Euro commies! muhammeds! globalists! quick Bannon prop up anti-Eu parties!!!!!!
Lucas Smith
>bad
like a crazy gf
This, look at ship building for the Royal Navy, Marine Nationale, Marina Militare, Armada Española. They have lots of ships built by domestic companies with little foreign involvement besides one or two ships. In a truly unified military policy, four Queen Elizabeth Class ships would have been built between Europe for Britain and France, and maybe another country.
Same with planes, tanks, vehicles, ect
A unified Europe would undoubtedly rival the US.
Angel Cook
>united europe soon
I'm so happy bros
Carson Miller
this doesnt mean they europeans still wont be in NATO spending way less than their 3% you dumb sh- *checks flag* oh never mind
Benjamin Williams
fuck the americans.
Blake Morris
kill yourself slavshit
Angel Johnson
kill yourself bootlicker
not only has the EU countries defence budget been steadily increased, the goal is 2% you retard
hope Russia destroys your shit country you snowmongol
Mason Scott
>euros cant agree on any diplomatic matters ever
>will somehow have a combined military
>america taking it seriously
The dumbest part about this entire thing is still America.
Ethan Ramirez
Why don't you go back to Russia, boris
Caleb Gomez
Fuck NATO and its monthly bomb muzzie weddings operations, EU defense treaty when?
Ian Hill
>A """"""""""unified"""""""""" European army
>Just like how the """"""""""unified"""""""""" European Unions is going
Guys you know a European army is going to be an absolute shit show. I'd be impressed if you guys manage to decide who get to be in command of such a thing.
Brayden Reyes
>steadily increased
PHAHAHAJAHHA, weasels are so fucking easy to spot
And what ever happends not a single drop of snowmongol blood will be spilled for the shitskins in iberia
Brody Price
What's going wrong with EU?
Luke Martinez
t. eternal anglo
Charles Johnson
You're probably misinformed. European cooperation is working full speed.. otherwise how would they have a common currency, common custom union, common borders, common foreign policy etc... Stop falling for the Anglo meme.
Grayson Jackson
We don't really need a EU army. We have our american slaves fighting for us
Nathaniel Morgan
likewise, we won't life a finger when Ivan reaches helsinki and starts raping Mika
Logan Foster
you have to go back
Leo Gutierrez
Yes but now they are asking to pay for it.
William Wright
Kys putinist scum
Evan Howard
wont having dozens of different languages be a logistic issue?
Nathaniel Cruz
Is it an issue in NATO?
Jacob Morales
Instead it will be used to suppress subjec... I mean member "states" who don't want to do exactely what France and Germany orders them to.
Luis Gutierrez
Simply reject that demand. American slaves will still fight for us
Evan Thompson
Soldiers don't need a complex vocabulary
Henry Scott
why are you such a faggot bootlicker?
let me guess you're from helsinki
Noah Gray
lol at desant bäckman calling anyone a bootlicker
Kevin Garcia
>What's going wrong with EU?
Brexit has caused a lot of nations to almost vote in anti-EU politicians in rise of the migrant wave and the backlash from the Greek debt crisis. Last year alone, France, Italy and Poland had elections with far right politicians in the running for the first time in 70 years.
Having an EU army would bring along many of the same issues that plague NATO, only perhaps more. There are many issues that come with a unified military for a continent with so many different foreign policies and contributors of different levels.
Ryan Torres
>Brexit has caused a lot of nations to almost vote in anti-EU politicians
It was the opposite. Brexit stopped many anti-EU movements in their tracks
Levi Ramirez
>Brexit has caused a lot of nations to almost vote in anti-EU politicians in rise of the migrant wave and the backlash from the Greek debt crisis
Stop talking about Europe you get everything wrong.
Nicholas Ross
They do a decent job of handling that with the French Foreign Legion. Shouldn't be too hard to scale that sort of training up if language becomes such an issue, I reckon.
Kayden Diaz
>Brexit has caused a lot of nations to almost vote in anti-EU politicians in rise of the migrant wave and the backlash from the Greek debt crisis. Last year alone, France, Italy and Poland had elections with far right politicians in the running for the first time in 70 years.
Brexit has only removed the biggest institutional block on EU integration, UK. What comes to EU's popularity, it has reached 80s levels of pro-european feeelings: europarl.europa.eu
Far right parties have silently dropped demands of frexit, fixit etc. and are saying that EU needs to be reformed, not destroyed.
Leo Bennett
Mees ny vittuun siitä Dan
Jaxson Diaz
>falling for propaganda
it actually didn't
>Brexit has only removed the biggest institutional block on EU integration, UK.
delusional shill
Caleb Lee
The Dutch army is already merging with the German army. It is just a matter of time before an European army. But who is going to lead the army? The EU council? Or a new organization? Americans can cry whatever they want. Trump called the EU a foe. And now they are crying about an European army. Pathetic.
Robert Stewart
Brexit was in 2016
Nolan Russell
federal europe and the EU is not the same thing
Wyatt Brown
>delusional shill
So you are claiming that UK wasn't an institutional block on integration?
Chase James
Are you white? Be honest
Cooper Long
>öyh öyh öyh
It's always cute seeing brainlets trying to discuss political matters
Adrian Wood
Jeremiah Peterson
I was just asking because the only time ive ever spoken to someone so oblivious to what i just said earlier was with a shitskin
Zachary Martinez
t. neet wishing for le ebin racewar
Landon Russell
here are the stats on a unified EU army just incase anyone was wondering
(not taking into account any increase in production of equipment, recruitment of population, decrease in costs due to sharing resources, etc that would likely happen once everything had been combined and standardised)
budget (USD): 215,515,014,925.00
active personnel: 1,551,038
fleet carrier: 6
amphibious assault ship: 5
amphibious support ship: 25
destroyer: 31
frigate: 93
corvette: 48
patrol vessel: 128
anti mine ship: 151
missile sub: 8
attack sub: 52
main battle tank: 7,695
armoured fighting vehicle: 18,819
artillery: 9,817
attack helicopter: 963
military logistics vehicle: 34,011
combat aircraft: 2,043
aerial refueling planes: 31
transport aircraft: 360
"other" planes: 48
for comparison stats to USA, Russia, China:
globalfirepower.com
globalfirepower.com
globalfirepower.com
just off the top of my head i know US still has a higher budget and russia have more tanks
not sure about the rest
Lucas Phillips
The Czech Republic, Poland, Netherlands and Germany are merging parts of their navy and army. It's cheaper to buy/build shit we need together instead of every cunt having the same shit on their own.
Henry Barnes
If your terrible "militaries" have to band together to be useful fair enough just dont drag us into it
Hunter Russell
>misstaking me for some retarded stormfag nazi larper
Josiah Morales
>RULE BRITANNIA BRITANNIA RULES THE WAVES
lol at british "military". bunch of brainlet squaddies and a """""carrier""""" with a ramp and no planes.
Nicholas Turner
I was talking about Europe.
Jacob Hughes
who the fuck would actually join an EU army?
Jaxson Anderson
Europe doesn't need an army. There are no real threats to the US and Europe. I wish the US government would abolish our military and give all of us huge tax cuts.
Dominic Martin
slavshits mostly
Adam Wood
I would if it meant killing amerigoblins or r*Ssians
Joseph Kelly
what we need is more in line with a reconquista to purge europe of shitskins like africans, arabs, spaniards and hungarians
And we have even less
>swede
>immediately cucks out
häng dej hanrej
Cameron Long
but why would I care about russian aggression? have you seen a map?
Isaac Johnson
oh yeah, and 5 aircraft carriers with an additional 2 currently under construction
Daniel Williams
your economy would collapse
Jace Wright
seething greeklets lol
Angel Murphy
>but why would I care about russian aggression?
You are using the same € as them. If they rape Poland we will feel it all in our bank accounts.
Easton Ward
Michael Cruz
More like the economy would be much more productive because we wouldn't be producing useless weapons and supporting the millions of welfare queens in the military.
Christopher Collins
Europe needs army to increase production of weapons and trade of said weapons, making our economy stronger also allowing Europe to create their own advancements in military tech.
There are about 0 negatives to united Army of EU over NATO.
Connor Garcia
>but why would I care about the migrant crisis? have you seen a map?
Logan Stewart
migrant crisis affects me
Hudson Cruz
the mutts fear EVROPA
Logan Gonzalez
And the butthurt continues: straitstimes.com
We need to do a buy European act.
Jose Ortiz
Except we'd be in it you dumb raghead
Nolan Price
Remind me, how much non-American military material does the US even use? Why should we let American companies participate in the bidding if America refuses to adopt European weaponry and equipment even if it is at times outright superior to their American counterparts.
Bunch of hypocrites
Chase Cox
Producing weapons is bad for your economy. Weapons have zero utility. They don't increase anybody's well-being. You should be using your finite resources to produce actual goods.
You're forcing a false dichotomy between NATO and a European army when you should be withdrawing from NATO and spending even less on the military.
Benjamin Sanchez
Russia India and China have 3000M people and 6k nukes
Cooper Hill
No we don't gypsy
Europe doesn't even have a space program, they are millennia behind us.
Nicholas Scott
And Russian border afects you too
Carson Miller
as it stands now their military would still be stronger than your overall
you would need to spend a decent amount of time standardising equipment and operating methods and merging hierarchies and logistics as well as bringing the poorer equipped/trained countries up to par while also increasing production of equipment
it would take a few years but it would definitely be possible and even likely for a european army to become the new world power
Leo Mitchell
With these guys around there wouldn't be a single migrant
Jaxon Moore
America is a dying empire, losing control over it's colonies and vassals. Soon China will rise and bring the new age of oppression. Europe needs to be prepared to retaliate and contest the Chinese power.
Josiah Robinson
>Europe doesn't even have a space program
>
Nolan Scott
There's zero indication that Russia, India or China would ever wage war against Europe or America.
Chase Ross
>Europe doesn't even have a space program
what
Hudson Gutierrez
>Hey yurop, you need to spend 2% of your GDP for your military
>okay
>*increase R&D*
>Not like that RRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Leo Edwards
And if we don’t?
Xavier Price
This so much lmao
Jacob Price
Why can't Europeans understand that American people and American government are two separate entities?
Jayden Torres
sell us rafale
Daniel White
there's problems with the NATO in the Baltics, also Ukraine and the Exyug. Nowadays China and Russia want the EU on their side, that's why Xi Jinping is doing the new silk road, but who knows ...
Levi Carter
China doesn't have a history of being anywhere as belligerent as America and Western Europe. It seems like the West is just projecting its imperialistic mentality onto China.
Wyatt Brooks
you're the one making a thread and bumping it so I reckon you're tge one butthurt about murican cockblocking
Luke Hernandez
just found out the euro space agency has a budget of $6,395,389,000.00 USD
James Thomas
>le gubmint nothing to do with populace
retarded take from a retarded country
Jeremiah Howard
China supported Pol Pot to weaken Vietnamese influence, they funded Maoist rebels in Malaysia,India still has irredentist views on Mongolia etc
Give me a fucking break