If crypto has no intrinsic value, how do stocks have any? Aside from selling your stock to someone else in the future, is there even a point to stocks? And what makes one stock better than another aside from small perks like dividends etc, just public hype?
>That company is doing really well so people are buying its stock, I better buy that stock too
I am serious but I am a fucking brainlet. How is crypto any worse?
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Stock market is literally a ponzi scheme caused by inflationary currency
Stocks entitle you to a portion of the company’s assets in bankruptcy. They also sometimes confer voting rights and dividends
A stock market share makes you a part owner of the company. Its backed by the physical assets the company owns
>what is a dividend
The intrinsic value of bitcoin is what you can do with it that depreciated forms of money can't.
Example, I can walk across the border with my bitcoin stored in my brain. Customs can't detect it.
Remember how Saudi Arabia rounded up a bunch of billionaires and took their wealth last year? Should've had bitcoin boys.
Bitcoin is so much more important to the wealthy than to the poor. China knows this, which is why they've tried to limit bitcoin purchasers by their wealthy. The writing is on the wall though, you can't stop it.
you figured it out, its the same shit. congrats. traders market is what it all is and all the words around it are to confuse av joe
Your shitcoin is worthless without access to the internet
If the internet disappears, civilization is over and I don't need money anymore anyway. Why exactly am I suppose to care?
Stocks are ownership in the company.
But wait you say, owning 0.0001% of a company doesn't matter. Sure, your ownership doesn't necessarily matter but the guy who can buy 10%+ does exist and if the value of a stock is low enough he will buy to gain influence within the company. Hence why ownership does matter even if your particular ownership doesn't.
On the other hand owning 100% of bitcoin means bitcoin is dead.
+1
yes! someone else gets this!
The internet doesn't have to disappear, just your access to it has to. Oh look, you're a bitcoin billionaire in Saudi Arabia, into a cell you go until you hand over all your accounts.
>give them all my normie bank accounts
>get let go
>leave
>oh wow im still rich
There are dozens of saudi billionaires that would've saved their lifestyles by holding some bitcoin. It won't take long for these life lessons to spread.
Are you really so delusional that you believe that the lesson will spread and at the same time the governments like Saudi Arabia won't demand your bitcoins too if that is the case? Even if you don't have any, or give them a small dummy account, they can just opt to hold you until you die or give them the amount they want. Doesn't matter if you don't have enough to give them.
That's what you're missing, places that pull that shit don't give a shit about you, they'll just let you die if you don't give them enough.
>Most stocks dont give dividend
I own a number of cnd potstocks and some shares in a battery metal company.
Owning shares is no joke. I have voting rights and recive detailed quarterly financials
I do zero crypto currencies. I have about 38k in play in the market right now
So we didn't have a civilization in the 1980s?
owning stocks is owning a company and future profits. Where do you think the money from dividends comes from.
Not all stocks give dividends.
So let's assume we are talking about stocks that have no perks other than barebones ones (part ownership etc).
If you can find me a billionaire who would even risk 1% of his portfolio buying bitcoin these last 9 months ill buy one thousand dollars of Dogecoin right now
>Makes the argument that totalitarian governments will take your assets
>Implying there is a better way of stealthily moving money around than private blockchains
Mark Cuban said put 10% of your portfolio in bitcoin/ethereum
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then its a shit stock, but you still have partial ownership of a company's assets.
investing is buying future cashflows. crypto doesn't generate income, neither does it represent ownership of anything, you can just move a number in a ledger and hope someone gives you more for it than you paid aka its a fucking shit investment
to explain it simply, stocks have a company behind them that have a promise of a product or service
bitcoin (bch) or other crypto have a usage behind them, other than that there's no promise
and if the company isn't paying dividends it's investing its profits into growing the business. if it pays dividends it admits that investors can get a better return for their money elsewhere. if it's not making profit, why are you investing unless you expect it to start making a profit soon.
i swear to god this board is full of morons who are financially illiterate and have never invested in anything real.
ponzi schemes have dividends dipshit
Bitcoin will never be money.
The price fluctuates too much.
Why would I accept it for payment if the price is dropping?
Why would I spend it if it's going up?
Central banks control the supply of money.
This keeps the price stable.
Bitcoin is just a vehicle for speculation.
>Central banks control the supply of money.
>This keeps the price stable.
what a brainlet you are. kys
btc 100k in 2020. screencap this you fucking faggot.
Can't take what you can't find. Bitcoins can be stored in your brain.
Idiot.
Housing prices crash 50% in recent memory.
>durr never buy a house
It is a new asset, and it'll take some time for people to adjust, but volatility will trend down, expectations normalize. Not a big deal at all.
There isn't anything considered more stable than a house and 50% down happened. 60-70% adjustments for bitcoin are about as nothingburger as nothinburger gets.
The US dollar chart is just every alt this year but on a very long time scale
And traditional bank accounts are supposed to be safe from tyrannical governments?
Strategist sees a new high by July... That article
Simple crypto is rat poison squared while stocks have intrinsic value
It's a big IF
Nobody will care about paper money either if internet disappears
It must be bait. nobody can be THIS retarded right user?
>v-volatile
no shit you fucking retards. its a new asset class. some people deserve to stay poor and wagecuck forever. somebody has to wash my rs5 coupe.
That's the whole point. Unless you're an idiot, nobody knows how much or which currency you might have.
It's a new technology which will fundamentally change the logic of violence and extortion.
how can you be this stupid?
stocks represent fractions of a company, and when you initially buy stocks from the company (IPOs) that's capital being raised by the company in exchange for representative ownership of the company in the form of stocks (ofc you don't actually "OWN" part of the company you invest in, but for simplistic discussion you'll take my meaning)
then when the company does better/worse that's reflected on the stock price, if their sales go up, the stock price goes up, if they expand and build new facilities/offices the stock price can go up, if they acquire new equipment, etc. the stock price can go up, there's always underlying assets being represented by the stock price.
With cryptocurrency you have none of this, there is no CEO of bitcoin, there is no central company that holds any assets, there are no earnings reports, there's nothing. Crypto is a hype driven speculative market, you invest today HOPING that it will be worth more tomorrow (essentially the definition of a ponzi) and the only way it's worth more tomorrow is either through positive mainstream media reporting, positive government policy/regulation, and optimistic public outlook.
all finance is a scam
>positive mainstream media reporting, positive government policy/regulation, and optimistic public outlook.
These determine 95% of the stock value.
The only real difference is regulation which is for retards anyway. The 'moral highground' of fiat and stocks will inevitably come to an end since they can't compete with highly competitive unregulated markets.
this
>representative ownership of the company in the form of stocks (ofc you don't actually "OWN" part of the company you invest in, but for simplistic discussion you'll take my meaning)
sounds jewish
you also forget that the vast majority of stocks only have value because people think they will be worth more in the future
>These determine 95% of the stock value.
they don't determine 95%, ofc they impact the price, but the company actually has to perform well year after year for the price to continue rising and for people to continue to hold the stock. You can talk all the shit you want but look at say Facebook in 2006 or Amazon in 1999 and compare them to today, obviously their breadth, reach, influence, power, and success have increased exponentially, and that's reflected in the stock price and value of the company.
>the vast majority of stocks only have value because people think they will be worth more in the future
that's not true at all, yes people buy them BECAUSE they expect them to be worth more in the future (why would you buy something that would stagnate or lose value?) but that value comes from the companies actual performance year after year, not just by getting more people to buy stocks
with what P/Es are at these days it clearly shows that people are investing based on speculation of future price
Tesla does only loss, nobody cares. Amazon had multiple negative revenue years, but they managed to go big with AWS eventually. It's fucking speculation.
Investing in a crypto is speculating that the ecosystem will develop and new wealth will be created there. Just BTFO government control.
>can't find something on a 100% transparent public ledger
Bitcoin is the only thing that has ever made sense on finance.
>but that value comes from the companies actual performance year after year, not just by getting more people to buy stocks
What? If there's less buying the stock than selling it of course the price goes down. Stocks/crypto/gold It's all just supply and demand nothing more.
That's the whole point. Unless you're an idiot, nobody knows how much or which currency you might have in your safe.
The new technology of hiding your safe will fundamentally change the logic of vilolence and extortion.
Pretty sure Twitter assets are less than 10% of its valuation.
And so is the dollar.
No internet today is the equivalent of no electricity and it will be more and more the case.
>small perks like dividends
if someone wanted to take over a company they would have to acquire more than 50% of the stock of that company
this is the intrinsic value of stocks
also dividends and shareholder voting rights, but those are minor compared to company ownership
Crypto can perform the function of money way better that gold and fiat. Make your own conclusion considering that.
Every day dividends go down compared to the value of a stock, Amazon never paid dividends and its stock price keeps going up and up..
The Internet was designed as a nuclear war communication web. It's hard to imagine a catastrophe that can destroy it, especially given the amount of existing nodes
Good luck carrying that safe over borders and making online payments.
>promise of a product or service
Promise is worth shit unfortunately.
You are last in line though because bondholders are paid back first.
Wrong. Even if there was zero demand the stock would still pay from dividends
If you're not retarded, stocks are ownership of a company. You get paid in dividends, special cash dividends, and in the event of liquidation some of the assets. With enough stock you can take the company private and do whatever you want with the profits.
Stocks can be overvalued.
That being said, crypto as a currency has some value, which is the total amount of goods it can buy.
No it doesn’t. Pepsi creates insane value to the economy with their shitty drinks that everyone wants and pays money for. They employ tens of thousands of people because they make so much money. Bitcoin and Ethereum provide no value whatsoever and the vast vast vast majority only buy with the intention of selling at a higher price
The people holding you at gunpoint don't need to carry it, they just need to pistol whip you until you open it for them.
Stocks u assume at one point actually meant u own like a proper percentage of a company and its profits. Good luck turning up in palo alto google offices asking to see the boss to discuss business cause u own some google shares.
ya if suddenly there was far less demand for a stock the price would tank, but there'd still be a floor price based on the company itself and whether they were profitable and held assets
with cryptocurrency though this is not true, the price can fall to $0 with no demand because there's nothing backing it at all, no underlying assets, no performance or earnings reports, nothing.
I'm not saying stocks can't be manipulated by news/hype or that people don't speculate on them, but there's a huge difference between stocks and crypto and you're being disingenuous claiming otherwise
If that's the case, and pretending the company continues doing normal business at average growth with no massive fuckups, there's almost no reason to ever sell a stock because theoretically the value should only ever grow and it would be a brainlets move to throw away a golden ticket. Correct?
You could simply put the ledger nano up your ass and no one would even know you have it.
I knew a guy who tried this, but the guys robbing him just beat him with rebar until he shit all over himself.
>you invest today HOPING that it will be worth more tomorrow (essentially the definition of a ponzi)
Isn't that just stocks? I don't buy Facebook because I like Cuckerberg, or like the tech, I buy it hoping the value goes up so I can dump on someone else.
Drug trafficers also create jobs for people, harder to argue it's actually valuable for society though.
He implied that internet is here to stay but if it disappears, it means the society has collapsed because it makes no sense to take down the internet forever otherwise. I mean, internet is so valuable for everyone that taking it down would really be a huge mistake. In 1980 people could live without it because it didn't existed but now it's part of everyone's lives