Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer. One halfway popular dapp woulrd force the whole network to its knees, as seen with Cryptokitties or popular ICOs in the past. Ethereum as it is now, cannot handle even one single decentralized application that goes mainstream. The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB and this is a very big issue. It is a known fact in blockchain technology that larger blocks centralize validators, and this is exactly what is happening here. There are fewer and fewer FAN-nodes (full archival nodes), and these nodes update the state of the Ethereum network. Because of Ethereum’s exponentially growing blocksize, the bottleneck is not regulated below these external factors and as such results in a shrinking and more centralized network due to network demands that increasingly exceed the average users hardware and bandwidth.
Ethereum full nodes are getting fewer and fewer because the clients can't sync. And light nodes are not a full substitute of full node verification. This will lead to a weaker and more insecure network. Planned scaling solutions are Casper PoS, Sharding and Layer2 solution. - Proof of Stake is not as secure as Pow because the blockchain is not anchored in the outside world through the consumption of an external resource. In PoW this resource is Electricity, which makes sure that it is very very expensive to attack the blockchain and makes this attack economically unrewarding. Using energy burnt to back a block allows us to view immutability objectively. Whereas any non-energy-based method ultimately requires someone’s subjective interpretation of immutability. By attaching energy to a block, we give it “form”, allowing it to have real weight & consequences in the physical world. And PoS also leads to centralization as the power is concentrated with the people who have the most money. The entrance barrier to staking is 32 ETH, this is a fundamentally different system as PoW where miners compete throught the use of energy (cost) with each other. I personally consider Ethereum's economics broken at the base layer.
Samuel Ward
- Sharding comes from the world of databases and describes a technique where a database (or a blockchain) will be split in multiple parts (called "Shards") where each of the parts has a different area of task. Validating responsibilities are split up among various groups, each with their own shard. The intent is to relieve the amount of work a single validating node must do so there can be more of them, but it only results in prolonging the issue, and not fixing the problem. Furthermore, there’s now a huge cost for some of these nodes, as staking is required to be one of them. Sharding takes a single blockchain, turn it into multiple blockchains called Collations, then puts a twist tie on top and hopes mold doesn’t grow. Layer2 solutions are the only viable scaling solutions. For Ethereum we have Raiden and the Loom Network. Loom is especially promising as it enables sidechains on top of the Ethereum base-layer. BUT, if Ethereum adopts PoS (which is highly untested) we have an insecure base-layer. You can build a insecure second-layer on top of a secure base-layer, but not the other way round.
Ethereums on-chain scaling solutions were delayed again this year. Casper PoS is now expected in 2019, sharding in 2020/21.
Issuance policy is another major negative point for Ethereum. The issuance of ETH is not capped! This means there is a constant flow of newly minted Ether, this goes on indifinitely in theorie. This makes Ethereum an inflationary asset, which is bad. use cases for Ethereum: the number one use-case is tokenization. And this used 99% for ICOs which create tokens with articificial demand and no real usage. This trend is declining and so i expect the price of ETH to decline.
Brayden Collins
Now we come to smart contracts, a clever idea but without the potential of mass adoption. Here is why: - they are incredibly hard to write (see the Parity and the DAO hacks for example) - altough in computer science "code is law", smart contracts are NOT legally binding. They are NOT real contracts.
Execution in a Turing-complete context is extremely tricky and hard to analyze. Securing a Turing-complete smart contract becomes the equivalent of proving that a computer program does not have bugs. We know this is very difficult, as nearly every computer program in existence has bugs.
Consider that writing normal contracts takes years of study and a very hard bar exam to be able to write competently. Smart contracts require at least that level of competence and yet currently, many are written by newbies that don’t understand how secure it needs to be. This is very clear from the various contracts that have been shown to be flawed.
And we have the "oracle problem", smart contracts rely on the correctness of outside data. Who feeds this data to the Ethereum system? What prevents these oracles to be corrupt or malicious? how do we prevent centralization?
Elijah Reed
Blockchains have advantages in a very specific field, namely censorship-resistance and immutability. The killer use-case for this setup is Money. We do not need a decentralized internet. Because a centralized service is ALWAYS cheaper and more easy to use. Implementing a blockchain makes only sense in specific fields where immutability and the prevent of government control are important. I cannot imagine a future where everyone holds a Ethereum wallet with 345 different tokens for 345 specific services. And i highly doubt Ethereums capability to handle this kind of data load.
Ethereum is not leaderless (Vitalik Buterin and dev-team), not entirely immutable (DAO-hack and subsequent fork because of transactions that were rolled back), not a Store-of-Value because of an uncapped supply and it does not scale on the base-layer. Another thing is that BTC increasingly cuts into Ethereums use-cases with Rootstock (smart contracts) and Drivechain (side chains).
And with the death of dapps Ethereums second use case (capital raising platform) also dies.
This is the bearish case for Ethereum.
Jaxson Stewart
tl;dr lmao
Juan Walker
>muh rootstock Get da fuck outta here
Sage
Sebastian James
>Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer base layer scaling is not a solved problem, no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices
what matters is who is poised to get there first, and that is precisely Ethereum, making your entire point moot
what a moron
Easton Foster
nobody gives a shit moi9; the ethereum foundation made its ponzi bucks and is sitting in its high castle refusing to upgrade the platform or compete with the twenty other blockchains that now do what it does but better.
Levi Parker
I believe PoS will create an even better ponzi, because whales will try to accumulate as much as possible. They won't need to sell coins to buy mining equipment, just HOLD.
ETH has an inflation rate of 10% p.a. right now and no demand (decreasing number of ICOs), so it's a very good short for the rest of the year.
Robert Cox
Tldr: Ethereum is dead in the water.
Easton Roberts
>Layer2 solutions are the only viable scaling solutions is this the absolute state of BTC cucks?
layer 2 depends on layer 1 you dimwit
you think 200K transactions a day (lmao bitcoin) is enough to support layer 2 scaling? absolutely not fucking possible
I have more issues with your lengthy drivel, but I honestly cba going into every single thing - practically everything you're saying is fucking stupid or plain wrong
Brayden Parker
mfw rootstock moves into top5 in 2019 guaranteed
Jackson Richardson
Er...lol Please short
Joshua Brooks
>no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices
False, it doesnt matter if you have more centralization in a dapps platform because governance model is needed to prevent child porn and rampant steal of content like movies ect.
So unless you are pro child porn you have to accept that there are no sacrifices to having 21 block producers elected democratically to have the power to prevent such content from ruining the value of the coin.
James Moore
Rootstock is irrelevant Mexican vapourware.
Easton Perry
Ah the familiar old child porn obsessed EOS cuck.
Shaddappayourface ah?
Parker Diaz
saying it wont moon? ha
Robert Kelly
>Ah the familiar old child porn obsessed EOS cuck. >Shaddappayourface ah?
Argument still remains intact. I would love to hear you totally propose a solution rather than act like a butt hurt fucked up little child who cant fucking put two and two together.
All dapps coins are going to face this problem. And they are ALL going to end up having to solve it.
You got a solution? Bring it. I'm all ears.
Benjamin Lewis
Child porns going to exist no matter how much eos cuck-currency you buy you silly poorfag nonce. It must be a hard life bagholding eos and thinking about child porno all the time.
Why don’t you consider suicide k?
Alexander Gray
Seriously though, if someone knows a solution I actually do want to know. Because it would be nice to know if its possible to have a 100% decentralized social media platform that wont be filled with awful and illegal shit like that.
I cannot think of anything though. Decentralized dapps coins are a myth. Its merely an upgrade to what we currently have now at this point.
> It must be a hard life bagholding eos and thinking about child porno all the time.
Yeah, hahaha fail... The absolute state of ETH bag holders I guess. Muh decentralization
> Why don’t you consider suicide k?
You are the one bag holding an argument kek
Noah Fisher
Agreed OP. I bought ethereum at $20, and recently sold all of mine for bitcoin. Ethereum is barely decentralized at this point, for all the reasons you said. Most people here are gamblers who don't understand the economic theory behind sound money. Proof of Stake was the last straw for me. It's going to turn ethereum into a ponzi scheme because >muh Pow bad 4 enviornment A lot of large Pow bitcoin miners use hydroelectric, so it's just retarded to switch to staking, which will centralize the network.
Caleb Morgan
Solution: Just don’t be “friends” with people who post child porn.
Juan Lewis
eth ico investor vs eos who won?
Camden Gomez
Wont work, its still going to be posted and it will show up on trending lists. It will be literally used to attack the coin.
YOUR FUCKING DAPP WILL BE ATTACKED.
Your coin will drop in value and people on the platform will demand a solution is implemented or they will all flee.
You need a fucking solution. Someone has to have the authority to prevent that shit from getting posted.
Jose Green
Not an argument. You need a solution.
The only solution is democratically elected nodes / producers who have the ability to block shit like that.
Nathan Price
Not really. I don’t think the problem is really as great as you think. People use the internet to post child porn every day. No one calls for the internet to be shut down.
If child porn was trending on twitter then we would be living in a society indeed. But generally people who post child porn are shunned. So why that would be any different on a blockchain I don’t know.
Easton Perez
If you can “block shit like that” then you can block anything which defeats the purpose of a blockchain.
Maybe the blockchain will make it easier to track who’s posting the child porn and maybe the police can pay them a visit.
Letting dan laringitis cuck you in the ass is no solution
Mason Carter
>Not really. I don’t think the problem is really as great as you think. People use the internet to post child porn every day. No one calls for the internet to be shut down.
A social media dapp would fall within a day if this were to be something we see happen. Stop lieing. Anyone with half a brain fully understands this.
If your argument is that maybe we all collectively just need to stop giving a shit then.... I dont know man. Maybe you are right but.
> So why that would be any different on a blockchain I don’t know.
How come Jow Forums has moderators then? You are making the argument they are not needed right? Its not a problem huh.
You guys are desperate I think if you are going to claim the shit wont be a huge fucking detriment. You will never see mass adoption, its obvious as fuck if that shit is allowed to be posted consequence free.
Hudson Robinson
The thing is, a social media dapp can’t be shut down. It’s in the definition of a dapp. An unstoppable application.
Brody Reed
your retarded. if you want immutability you have to accept the negatives that come with it as well. you keep on referring to child porn in dapps. this is another retarded statement.
child porn is posted onto the chain in base64 format. so as long as your dapp doesnt need to accept strings that are anywhere near as long as a base64 image, you can safely reject it within the original smart contract code.
e.g. if (inputString.length() > 20) { return "Rejected tx; String too long; }
while you can still include cp in the memo of a tx, this is the sacrifice that has to be made if you do not want ANYONE interfering with your money. With EOS, there is still a chance that your funds will get unfairly confiscated, frozen or the rules of the chain be arbitrarily changed.
Michael Powell
>If you can “block shit like that” then you can block anything which defeats the purpose of a blockchain.
Its already a huge upgrade over current social media platforms. Its still a massive upgrade. But you will never get away with 100% decentralization. Not with dapps coins. Monero maybe. Bitcoin maybe.
Never with dapps coins. Its never going to happen.
> Maybe the blockchain will make it easier to track who’s posting the child porn and maybe the police can pay them a visit.
Oh yeah but it will still be posted.
Look guys, this is difficult for you I can tell. You are getting cucked fucking hard right now. Anyone reading this is thinking this shit will ruin a fucking social media platform instantly. Unfriending or unfollowing someone is not a fucking solution either, anyone with half a brain knows that.
The only argument I am seeing is you guys are fine with seeing that shit and think everyone else is too. That's some bag holding logic to say the least.
Julian Bailey
>>Ethereum does not scale on the base-layer >base layer scaling is not a solved problem, no chain has base layer scaling without significant sacrifices Wrong, Waves has.
Robert Morris
>Anyone with half a brain fully understands this. dont flatter yourself lmao
if you create a dapp that requires moderation you can just include that functionality; the point is that the base layer is supposed to be decentralized and trustless, otherwise what is the purpose?
you are describing what is essentially a non-issue
Justin White
True. Waves has. But no ones using it that’s the problemo
Brody Kelly
explain yourself
Kayden Cox
>your retarded. if you want immutability you have to accept the negatives that come with it as well.
I wont be going anywhere even slightly near a platform like that. I dont think most people will. You might be cool with it. Mass adoption isn't going to be a thing, your coin will be niche and maybe that's fine.
> the point is that the base layer is supposed to be decentralized and trustless, otherwise what is the purpose?
Whats the difference at that point, you have given full authoritarian control to corporate entity rather than people who have a responsibility to the coin.
That's even fucking worse! And in practice places you in the exact same situation anyway at best.
I guess we should just trust corporations to have all the power after all I guess right.
Brandon Wood
you fren, are right
Noah James
If you can't compress your FUD into a single to the point paragraph then you have no case
Blake Rivera
>you are describing what is essentially a non-issue
You see it as a non issue but I see it as soul crushing. It means that dapps coins are stuck in a political situation where we have to find balance and we cannot be in a completely trustless environment.
We have to choose who gets the power to do shit. EIther it be a corporation who elect themselves, democratically elected nodes / block producers or basically 100% everything goes and nobody uses the shit because its fucking awful.
Bitcoin is a complete joke with its 4 transactions a second. ETH probably won't scale for a while, but its still much better in its current state than shitcoin.
Leo Cruz
Motherfucker that argument is bullshit and I want believe even you know it.
Isaac Hughes
you are bearish on ethereum because you're a bitcoin maximalist there are plenty of legitimate reasons to be against ethereum, but there are also telltale signs of arguments in bad faith from bitcoin maximalists: >muh insecure pos >muh fairer pow (despite btc's hashrate being 99% billionaire ASIC groups) >muh needing archive node >muh infinite ETH supply (please ignore bitcoin being inflationary for a while still) >muh turing completeness this is not a bearish case, this is a retard case
a true ethereum bear would look at vaporware ICOs holding absurd amounts of free ether, EF/parity/web3 nepotism, and most importantly the lack of credible competition and the insane price appreciation of 2017. the value proposition of smart contracts cannot be argued against unless you're a brainlet, ethereum's biggest challenge lies in economic incentives. influential developers sit on piles and piles of money and aren't hungry enough to produce their best work
Nathaniel Walker
Also this was meant to be a new thread but oh well. It's appropriate for here too. The state of Ethereum is the state of GPU mining unfortunately.
Christopher Hughes
Why don’t you just use Windows
Christian Morris
a) It's unstable, from personal experience b) It's harder to configure c) It uses a lot of GPU power just for the UI, I lose 50% of the hashrate on the first card. d) This is for my main computer, not a specialised mining rig, so I don't really have any choice but to use Linux as OS because it better serves my needs in other areas.
Well then I’m unable to help. Maybe another user would like to help
Nathaniel King
oh and you too mr. fucknut, read the article
Nathan Butler
whether or not it's an issue depends entirely on the dapp in question in the first place... and if it is an actual issue then the dapp can account for it
also: you think block producers are "democratically" chosen? naive as fuck; voter apathy means the wealthy are just voting themselves and each other in
Isaiah Scott
>ethereum's biggest challenge lies in economic incentives. influential developers sit on piles and piles of money and aren't hungry enough to produce their best work
Mainly because scaling on the main layer is not functional. You need scaling on the main layer and you need at least one unusually successful dapp to crop up then you will see people suddenly throw money at it.
IT ALMOST happened with cryptokitties by the way. That shit came mother fucking close but scaling wrecked the coin hard. If ETH had scaling we would have seen it explode.
Levi Mitchell
Just more bitcoin maximalist coping
Jack Sanchez
>you think block producers are "democratically" chosen? naive as fuck; voter apathy means the wealthy are just voting themselves and each other in
This is true for ETH as well. You guys have to stop pretending ETH isn't owned by a corporation anyway.
> whether or not it's an issue depends entirely on the dapp in question in the first place
Maybe if ETH just focuses on games and shit where nobody can post pictures or text on chain then you will be correct. At that point maybe its a limitation of ETH. It will never be able to have social media dapps. But other coins can do both so...
Bag holding again.
Nolan Wright
That's certainly possible. Are they right, though?
>You guys have to stop pretending ETH isn't owned by a corporation anyway. snap back to reality please
Michael Morales
Blockchain application should be used for social media but for cloud storage and computing, private currency, content sharing etc. No need for muh decentralized twitter.
Brody Perry
No of course not. Ethereum is superior to bitcoin in every way you silly sausage
Lincoln Parker
>snap back to reality please
You dont know ETH has a core development team? You don't even know about Vitalik? He is the face of the coin for god sakes. Someone is in control of every single crypto.
lol You have not noticed this yet? That most if not all crypto have core dev teams and everything? Who do you think is funded with ICO money to develop this shit? Magical elves? LOL
Anthony Edwards
>The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB Wrong, it's There are fewer and fewer FAN-nodes (full archival nodes), and these nodes update the state of the Ethereum network Wrong, they are called archival because they store redundant data needed only for block explorers and similar. Only the recent state is needed which is
Brandon Kelly
>smart contracts are NOT legally binding Lawyer here. There's no reason this is true.
Contracts only need some very minor attributes to be binding (offer, acceptance, consideration. Being written down is helpful). Smart contracts have all of them.
Anthony Peterson
>No need for muh decentralized twitter.
Crypto is a massive upgrade to social media though. Not only does it make it much harder to censor, bu it allows us to get rid of ad revenue models, we can still give the platform away for free while providing privacy and no KYC AND it even allows monetization at the same time.
Most people on the "it needs to be 100% decentralized" kick are fucking morons to claim that 80% decentralization would not be a massive improvement compared to the Alex Jones banning bullshit we see right now.
Who gives a fuck about giving up a little control to gain 80% decentralization? Its a fucking non argument anyway.
Jack Martinez
you're saying they 1) own it 2) are a corporation
1 is blatantly false and 2 is disingenuous at best
I respect and believe in Ethereum because it's blatant that their developers are talented and philosophically sound. The minute I stop believing that is the minute I sell my ETH; I see absolutely no substance when people shit talk Vitalik. He has influence because of merit; the moment he stops being the genius he is, his influence will diminish - as it should be.
Isaiah Stewart
This. There are plenty of "founders" of Ethereum who have absolutely zero soft power.
See Hoskinson.
Adam Gutierrez
The amount of ethhead cope in this thread is very satisfying.
ETH crashing and burning will be the final wake up call for this market. So much misinformation about blockchains, smart contracts, etc. all perpetuated by ETH and her many monstrous offspring.
Remember that one time when 4 percent of BTC supply got stolen during a transaction? Oh wait
Aaron Brown
>I use a calculator instead of a PC because some of the software on my PC contains bugs lol
Josiah Johnson
>I wont be going anywhere even slightly near a platform like that except that other people have. and have been for the last 10 years. besides the internet has far more porn than any current blockchain yet you still use it and so does everyone else.
Jayden Walker
XRP solves it retard lmao!!!
Grayson King
How does ipfs deal with cp?
Tyler Brooks
This is some serious cope dude.
Every coin is run by a core dev team. Someone had to make the fucking things. They control the coin as well. Even fucking Monero has a handful of people in charge of the coins future.
They get paid just like any other corporation.
And the bottom line is, like my above points before about the need for governance on layer 1. If you want your coin to run dapps you have to choose who controls shit.
You either give it to > Democratic elected nodes or block producers (IMHO the best solution. > Corporations / Dapps developers allah google and twitter > Nobody : completely and utterly unpoliced and people are afraid to use the shit and it never gains mass adoption
Take your pick dude. ETH is probably going to have you chose what nodes you use after it gets casper / plasma. Welcome to basically the same shit as every other coin.
Adrian Green
If you have a decentralized twitter then you will have illegal content posted all the time, and you can't do anything about it. If you give up control so you can ban and cencor any post be it illegal or otherwise, its not decentralized because you're giving power to an entiy over the others.
Decentralized twitter is stupid unless your fine with anything, any content being posted. Who wants to have pay everytime to post? Its stupid and doesn't need blockchain at all.
Liam Rodriguez
>except that other people have. and have been for the last 10 years.
The internet is not 100% unpoliced. This argument is fucking stupid. ISPs can and probably will stop you if they see you doing illegal shit. Its been like this since the fucking 90s.
Not an argument. 100% decentralization is a fucking myth. Its a myth no better than the 100% privacy myth.
David Fisher
>If you have a decentralized twitter then you will have illegal content posted all the time, and you can't do anything about it.
On chain governance solves this. Otherwise yes this becomes a problem. You are fooling yourself if you think ETH wont end up with on chain governance just like every other dapps coin.
Chase Wright
>Corporations / Dapps developers allah google and twitter literally no different than handling it in layer 1 except you lost the flexibility of opting out of it when it isn't needed
You can pick all 3 on Ethereum if you like - more even, if you like. Users who want no moderation can use dapps that have no moderation. Users who want moderation can use dapps that have backdoors for moderation.
All this being said: I don't even see it as a significant problem in the first place; I think it's a way to justify centralization, which in turn is the only way to justify EOS
>ETH is probably going to have you chose what nodes you use after it gets casper / plasma what?
Jaxon Bell
Not sure, I know in the case of steemit with IPFS they simply destroy the post itself so it no longer exists on the blockchain and thus doesn't effect the dapp anymore. But it likely just sits on the IPFS network forever...
Xavier Scott
>You are fooling yourself if you think ETH wont end up with on chain governance just like every other dapps coin ???????????????????????
Matthew Morales
its shite
Jordan Adams
>literally no different than handling it in layer 1 except you lost the flexibility of opting out of it when it isn't needed
No because it creates a balance of power. Dapps devs will always be selected but if they are the only ones in charge you might as well just use twitter anyway. They can delete your content and ban you just like a centralized platform at that point.
Checks and balances is better than just giving one entity 100% of the power.
> I think it's a way to justify centralization, which in turn is the only way to justify EOS
Because you are going to end up having to do this fucking anyway. Its not fucking avoidable. Dapps coins are going to be highly political environments and no just giving the dapps devs all of the power will not solve shit. You need decentralization and giving only the devs 100% of the power SOLVES NOTHING.
You need checks and balances or its YOU who wants centralization not me.
Luke Sanders
Casper and plasma will result inf some kind of variation of what I have been pointing out. You connect to nodes IE block producers and they sanitize and moderate shit.
Every dapps coin is going to ultimately end up this way.
Andrew Baker
>Checks and balances is better than just giving one entity 100% of the power. design whatever checks and balances you like into your dapp
you have infinite flexibility when the base layer is 100% trustless
>Because you are going to end up having to do this fucking anyway. no... it's contextual...
Jaxson Carter
>Casper and plasma will result inf some kind of variation of what I have been pointing out. You connect to nodes IE block producers and they sanitize and moderate shit. do you have any idea what you are saying at this point?
Camden Cooper
can't be arsed to read the pdf (who writes a paper in 2018 without proper jumps to chapters or at least number indexing? trust fund money turned hedge fund money), but seeing as the titles are pretty descriptive let's address them in order
A. - shortsighted view of the advantages decentralization can offer, from new use cases to improvements on current models - there is no legitimate dapp platform competitor. i'm the first guy wishing there were, but this isn't the case - first layer strain for unoptimized dapps has no relation to centralization, and stunts growth only for unexperienced developers. plasma cash sidechains work well enough as of now... the main issue has to do with onboarding users and taking the time to actually build shit - political centralizaiton is a legitimate concern B. - this is a plausible scenario - not sure what this one implies and not going to hunt for it in their paper C. - ETH is neither money nor equity - oil is not a store of value but nobody worries about its cumulative valuation in the trillions. while comparing a digital arbitrary resource to a physical one would be silly, the assumption cryptocoins must be store of value to justify a high market cap is overly myopic. it's better to think of market cap as a multiplier of the value you put on the security of the protocol - there's no compelling reason making BTC better digital gold than ETH. if anything, unlike bitcoin real gold has practical non-monetary applications; making ethereum is closer in spirit to gold than bitcoin - multiple crypto-asset SoVs are so overwhelmingly likely they're almost inevitable. stablecoins projects collaterized with gold, crypto or other assets already exist and will only expand in scope and number - true
so basically, complete technological illiteracy coupled with a little bit of financial knowledge
Dylan Perry
>design whatever checks and balances you like into your dapp
> Hey guys I am totally going to police myself alright!
> you have infinite flexibility when the base layer is 100% trustless
You will have to place 100% trust on dapps devs. That's centralization. IE Delegatecall right now.
Guys, 100% decentralization is a myth. It cannot exist. Its bullshit. The base layer needs some way to keep shit in check or you will never get mass adoption. Dapps devs with 100% control is identical to what we already have now.
> no... it's contextual...
Yes the context is social media dapps. That's the context here. There is no other context worth mentioning. And in this case you need governance.
Chase Perez
>And we have the "oracle problem", smart contracts rely on the correctness of outside data.
Think bigger, there's no oracle problem if everything is on chain.
Justin Fisher
>what is open source code inb4 "i can't read code and most users won't" - irrelevant point, decentralization ensues when enough unaffiliated individuals with knowledge can read that open source code and vouch for the way it works
Gabriel Perry
don't use a dapp if you don't agree with their philosophies, lmao - you have to do this ultimately no matter what dapp you use
>Guys, 100% decentralization is a myth. It cannot exist. Its bullshit. prove it
Carson Stewart
>inb4 "i can't read code and most users won't" - irrelevant point, decentralization ensues when enough unaffiliated individuals with knowledge can read that open source code and vouch for the way it works
LOOM isnt open source. Further showing my point. Delegatecall is just as centralized as google at this point. In practice not having governance just means you yield all control to one entity and they do whatever they want.
Anyway its not an argument, I am talking about dapps coins and the fact that they are going to be heavily political environments where we will have to govern them or there will never be a chance for mass adoption. How public the code is wont matter. Some entity is going to have the power to delete your spicy memes and you are a fool if you think otherwise.
William Gray
>don't use a dapp if you don't agree with their philosophies, lmao - you have to do this ultimately no matter what dapp you use
> Yeah man, stop using facebook and google too man! Problem solved LOL
Give me a fucking break. The first big dapps will be monopolies and you fucking know it.
Gabriel Carter
Imagine if governments maintained deeds and identities on the blockchain - now you could create an example contract:
Send X ETH to this smart contract and the deed to my house will transfer to your identity immediately
There are so many inefficiencies and middle men that can be made redundant through smart contracts, but it doesn't work unless it's fundamentally trustless
look how CP doesn't even enter into the equation; it's not relevant to the context - social media on the blockchain is a meme, and if you think the moderation can be pushed to layer 1 you are fucking mistaken
Bentley Rogers
>what matters is who is poised to get there first, and that is precisely... Cardano
Angel Watson
>The first big dapps will be monopolies This may be true but ironically not in a "monopolistic" way.
The first big dapps (almost certainly OMG) will be monopolies but only because their philosophy is literally as anti-monopoly as possible. They'll become public utilities in a way.
It's like saying the government has a monopoly on building roads. Completely true, but what the fuck is the problem if everyone can use them for free and they're good roads?
If they actually start behaving monopolistically, then there's a problem. But luckily for the public it's never been easier to fork the repository and just make a new dapp that isn't acting like an asshole.
The future will be just decentralized, possible creeping centralization, then a fork. Repeat steps 1 2 3. The only thing to do is make the process easier.
Grayson Hernandez
>social media on the blockchain is a meme, and if you think the moderation can be pushed to layer 1 you are fucking mistaken
Social media is the best overall use case for crypto as it offers a handful of advantages. But reading this is actually pretty funny because one of the biggest ETH bag holder copes is the ever present
> WAAHHH ETH WAS NEVER MEANT TO USE DAPPS LIKE EOS CAN!!!
This is some juicy shit haha Literally the best thing crypto brings to the table outside of new gaming mechanics ect is social media with no ads, privacy no KYC and the ability to monetize.
Problem is, any coin that tries to go the route without on chain governance is going to hit a fucking CP brick wall and its going to be fucking hilarious. (And sad) Because the dapps are going to be 100% centralized in spite of people claiming layer 1 would decentralize everything LMAO!!!
> Its cool though guys, ETH was never meant to run big dapps, its a store of value like gold. Am I right?
I cant wait. Its already starting to happen even in this thread. People claiming social media dapps are not a good thing for mass adoption alone is pretty much admitting that ETH is going sub 100 USD by EOY. And never recovering.
Dylan Robinson
Payments is obviously The #1 near term use case.
Social media is a great use case too but it's just way more complicated to do and not a near term possibility
Cameron Cook
>This may be true but ironically not in a "monopolistic" way.
Yeah man, anyone can just make another google any time they want. Just like anyone can fork ETH any time they want and get everyone to jump to the new coin with zero problems right.
Christian Sullivan
>zero problems Probably not zero but WAY FEWER than trying to fork something like Google (I'm talking about the corporation not only the search engine)
It is possible to fork ETH. It's been done several times already. Nobody has moved to newETHchain because nobody has seen a need to. Aka, ETH still has political credibility for most of its users.
Once that credibility is lost it IS very easy to move.
Way easier that trying to ditch Twitter for Gab or something. So overall it's an improvement in decentralization.
Isaiah Barnes
>The Ethereum blocksize has exceeded 1 TB Wrong, it's
