original thread got btfo by stupid fucking dero shilling/fudding war, gonna try this again
can i get some REAL fucking non-dero related answers about xmr vs zec in this bitch
for what it's worth, i'm leaning towards going all-in with XMR with my spare money; if i'm retarded shill me convincingly
Other urls found in this thread:
coinbureau.com
wired.com
twitter.com
bump
XMR is the better coin and the one actually used. ZEC is the one that might be listed on normbase. Personally, I am a long time XMR holder, but I sometimes think ZEC is a good investment (but not a good anonymous coin).
/thread
zcash is supported on regulated exchanges
monero is not
Zcash has way, way better tech than monero but bad marketing. Most darknet users genuinely think monero is more anonymous than zcash.
In reality monero anonymity is really weak (balances are 100% private though) and probabilistic. With full withdrawals history from leading exchanges it could likely be 100% deanonymized.
Even if not, monero can be retroactively deanonymized by quantum computers. Zcash can't.
Which means if quantum computers ever happen, everyone relying on monero to hide something criminal that's not past the limitations period (infinite in some locations!) is going to prison.
A certain marketplace won’t accept XMR anymore. Why is that? Is it a sign that throws marketplace has been taken over by FBI?
/Thread
Anyone who says otherwise is a shill and a pajeet
>way, way better tech than monero but bad marketing
isn't this still to be determined, since zk-snarks is a recent development? and what about the fungibility?
Firstly, zksnarks are way more reliable than ring signatures used in monero. They were invented by anonymous creators of bytecoin and their security wasn't analyzed that much. Monero actually had a coin-printing bug in years, it was fixed in February 2017. In contrast, zksnarks were developed and analyzed by world's best cryptographers.
Secondly, breaking zksnarks allows creation of infinite zcash, but that's it. It's physically impossible to deanonymize them.
>bug in years
for years*
Ricardo and Zooko have a sexual relationship with each other.
>Anybody has the link to the vid were they are fucking each other in the ass and look straight in the camera in a creepy way?
So you've been sitting on Jow Forums for the past 10 hours watching Dero ruin your thread?
That's even worse.
Criminals use Monero because they don't know any better, not because of good fundamentals. Monero transactions have leaked before and they will leak again.
Opt-in privacy means the anonymity set is very small. (it also means it's not fungible) Only a fraction of zcash transactions are hidden transactions. Monero is far more private than zcash by virtue of its much larger anonymity set.
coinbureau.com
"When an IP address is leaked from the nodes, it would be at random and cannot give any relevant information to someone about a specific transaction that took place on the network. It is true that an IP address can be used for physical node location, but without being able to link a transaction to it, having that IP address is useless."
zcash's anonymity set is the set of all shielded transactions. Monero is 4 mixins. It's not even comparable, monero's anonymity extremely shaky.
The mixins are only part of Monero's privacy. Every transaction goes to a unique stealth address and all amounts are completely hidden. You can even churn your coins if you really want.
Since Zcash transactions are so resource intensive to run, absolutely no one uses them. Practically speaking Monero is far more private.
Don't worry, OP. Derofags will shill in this thread too. Their scam bags are really heavy now.
The probability can be computed:
assume you're shapeshift and you know 10% of all inputs on monero.
The probability that all 4 mixins in one transaction belong to you is 0.001%. That's low so seems safe.
Yet it means that shapeshift alone can deanonymize 1 transaction in 6931 with probability >50%.
This 'anonymity' is an absolute joke. Would you bet 20 years of prison on these odds?
10% of known inputs is a very low estimate. With 30% of inputs known 1 transaction in 86 can be deanonymized.
These numbers are too low (meaning: monero is LESS safe) because there's a second order effect - deanonymizing these transactions increases the % of known inputs and in turn increases deanonymization probability even more. I guess I could calculate that if you're interested.
I've only got this one.
Stealth address is just a fancy way of generating new address for every output. It's equivalent to not reusing addresses on bitcoin.
zcash is technically better than monero, but it's not private by default, has a 20% premine, and it's developers (and thus the radioactive waste key issue) are untrustworthy.
i think we'll see a successor to all of these privacy coins soon enough, but the one that gets mass adoption will simply be pegged to a dollar, or more likely btc or eth. i dont think we'll ever see a privacy token that floats on the open market take over from monero.
>deanonymized
You now know which of 5 transactions went to a stealth address with an unknown amount of Monero. It could even be someone sending to themselves (you wouldn't know) in which case you have another 1 in 6931 chance that you'll have a >50% probability of "deanonymizing" their real transaction.
Not to mention the ring-size will most likely go up when bulletproofs are released.
This image kills the zcash shill. Best Korea uses Monero too. Zcash emission curve and developers reward are a joke. Not to mention, the whole "trusted setup" concept is sketchy as fuck to me, crypto by its very nature is supposed to be inherently trustless.
The monero community reminds me a lot of the bitcoin community 6 years ago. Monero is definitely the spiritual successor to the original sentiment that drove btc in its infancy. After i cashed out of btc i decided to go all in on the privacy niche. My assessment found more value in monero than the rest. Do your own homework though, I'm sure you'll arrive at the same conclusion that I did
Imagine a leo-controlled darknet market (like alphabay for some time), meaning they know all withdrawals. There are 6931 drug dealers who everyday sell monero on a normal exchange. They are drug dealers so they don't even know what churning is. Every second day one drug dealer gets caught red handed.
That's for 10%. I would bet the reality is >40% if there was a way to verify that without access to exchanges' data. Every withdrawal from a normal exchange is a known output.
that's dumb marketing that has nothing to do with reality. they either had the private keys or didn't.
>So you've been sitting on Jow Forums for the past 10 hours watching Dero ruin your thread?
thank fuck, i wasn't there for the shitstorm, i was driving/hanging out with family/doing other normie shit
saw 125 replies and thought "wow! maybe some really intense discussion about these two coins that'll help me decide what to invest in!" and nope, derofags lol
Yes, I can not imagine why criminals would choose monero over zcash.
The market has spoken. People with an actual need for privacy have chosen monero to fill that demand. Unless you're implying that the market itself is full of irrational actors that needlessly risk their freedom because they're just not as clever as you
> Monero is definitely the spiritual successor to the original sentiment that drove btc in its infancy.
Yeah, see, philosophically, I actually really love monero -- it's legit decentralized, and the business aspects of zcash are shady as hell
still, i can't scoff at the fact that zcash seems to have a lot of institutional/mainstream support (gemini, potential coinbase, governments, et al) and potentially better, albeit unproven tech
my eggs are in monero's basket for now, but i'm still considering investing a bit in zcash purely for the adoption, monetary aspects, etc.
>Unless you're implying that the market itself is full of irrational actors
I'm still for monero, but let's be honest -- this market is on the whole irrational as fuck
>People with an actual need for privacy have chosen monero
Criminals aren't likely to be cryptography experts able to determine what's more anonymous.
>needlessly risk their freedom because they're just not as clever as you
lmao, are you unironically calling drug dealers clever? there are way safer methods of making good money than selling meth or heroin on darknet markets. There are *some* clever drug sellers doing it for adrenaline kick, but average darknet seller is below average iq
Youre absolutely correct about the institutional investment aspect. Though to be completely honest I find it slightly suspect. I'd love to see sweet capital flow into monero but at the same time it kinda feels antithetical to concept of the coin. The one thing I hate about xmr is it's lack of user friendliness. I downloaded the original cli wallet back in early 2015 and quickly noped it and said fuck this (a very expensive mistake). It has come a long way since then though. I think monero will continue to grow organically with or without big capitaln flowing in.
A leo-controlled marketplace would have bigger problems than 1 in 6931 withdrawals being as linkable as bitcoin. It would hardly be worth their while to run a DNM for that. See
Dutch police ran Hansa for over a month
wired.com
(I wrongly remembered it to be alphabay)
For all you know leos decided that shutting markets doesn't work and Dream is state-run for months if not years.
>than 1 in 6931 withdrawals
Again, it's almost certainly much worse than 10% of inputs being known.
Remember how Hansa wasn't adding XMR like AB did? Makes sense in retrospect though.
>For all you know Dream is state-run
Again, see
There are some enterprise level cartel tier vendors on there. Definitely not just low level pushers, but actual organized crime. I suspect they probably did their homework when it comes to their multimillion businesses and the risk of life in prison. Who knows though that's just speculation. What we do know is they overwhelmingly seem to favor monero, and there's probably a logical reason for it.
Just because bitcoin is less anonymous doesn't make monero anonymous.
Zcash's shielded transactions are the ONLY truly anonymous payment solution.
No attack against it exist. It could be fudded by monero holders, but it's not impossible it's fudded by the state itself.
Organized crime has way better money transfer methods, they just use fake identities or cash out in places where they control the authorities. Monero is only an additional layer of safety, doesn't hurt.
For small scale operations the knowledge and intelligence required to safely sell drugs online limits it to people who get off on risk. Everyone who does it for money is too dumb to do it safely.
Think how shitty that job is physically, you have to actually send the drugs. It's physical labor. For a one-man operation it's almost impossible to employ workers.
A dumb twitter bot 'sent 1 eth to get 10' is likely to be more profitable, more safe and require much less work.
What is kraken ? What is bithumb ?
Monero is as good as it gets without the problem of the trusted setup. Monero could well adopt zk-starks in the future.
keys from trusted setup only allow printing coins, not deanonymization