OMG IS THAT A SHOTGUN? STOP USING THAT, YOU AMERIKAN SAVAGE

We didn't but I'd take a decent defeat over a phyrric victory to be honest. Just look at germany today and compare it to russia or even the sovietunion. There were no glory days for russians, not before they won ww2,not after and not today.

Are you actually retarded, you dumb shit? In what post does it say Finland even won the war? Also go kilo yankee sierra for even thinking winter war and the beef between ussr and Germany are comparable. All in all flawed logic and absolute abhorrent post 0/5.

>I'd take a decent defeat over a phyrric victory to be honest

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>I know! I will post this dumb wojak instead of giving a good argument! I'm so smart!

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A phyrric victory is a victory. A "decent" defeat is a defeat. This is so obvious it doesn't need explanation.

>I would rather lose than win
>t. you
how fucking dumb are you

>but I'd take a decent defeat over a phyrric victory to be honest

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Its not that easy. Just look at the huge loss of life on soviet side. Millions upon millions of people lost because Stalin put every resources into the soviet military.
Civilians far from any battles died of starvation and diseases. Even decades after the war they were not able to get everything under control. Both west and east germany got their stuff together much quicker than any of the east bloc countries.
Even to this day you have literally miles of failed soviet industry and empty apartment complexes devoid of life. If this would've been the fate of germany even if we would've won I'd gladly refuse.

we also put every resource into the war effort, lost millions of men and got bombed to shit, occupied, lost a third of our territory, century-old provinces got wiped off the map permanently
if it wasn't for the relative benevolence of the US we'd be in an even shittier state than Russia
there's no debating here. Having a phyrric victory leaves you in power. Losing, even a "decent" (wtf is that?) defeat leaves you at the mercy of the victor.

based

victory is victory, cost is a different factor that is separate from the outcome. stop talking like a journo

At least don't use it in a School, please.

>we also put every resource into the war effort
No we didn't. Especially after WW1 nazi germany always kept a good line of supplies to the german people. Making sure nobody has to starve.
>lost millions of men and got bombed to shit
Like most countries in europe.
>occupied
We were occupied but always had some sort of independence from our occupiers.
>lost a third of our territory, century-old provinces got wiped off the map permanently
Yet, those people fled to modern day germany and they are thriving right now and we still have the biggest population in western europe.
>if it wasn't for the relative benevolence of the US we'd be in an even shittier state than Russia
Just look at other european countries and how well they did, eastern bloc countries are still a mess. We rebuilt the country from scratch, we had some help just like any other country but nobody rebuilt as good as we did.
>Having a phyrric victory leaves you in power.
What kind of power though? After WW2 the sovietunion desperately struggled to keep itself alive. It was barely functional, literally the only two things the sovietunion had back then that worked was its military and its science output.
>Losing, even a "decent" (wtf is that?) defeat leaves you at the mercy of the victor.
How can you say that when you have a better standard of living today just for being in germany? We sure suffered too but in comparison to eastern europe and especially russia we survived it quite well.

>We were occupied but always had some sort of independence from our occupiers.

You are under occupation my friend heh hahahahaaAHA HAHAHAH!!!!

this amount of delusiion is painful

russia barely contaminated germans thanks to american gibs

Have you ever been to russia or eastern europe? Going from germany to russia via land is like walking from a villa to a slum.
And yet they appointed germans in high positions. They even encouraged germans to rule themselves.

shut the fuck up you fucking retard
we got btfo thoroughly, own up to it
your coping is absolute cringe tier
no, a defeat isn't better than victory.

Losing doesn't feel very good but you have to wise up and see the bigger picture. Its not coping when I say we handled our loss much better than most eastern european country their win. It would have been much worse if we would have fought on instead of surrender when it made sense.
You know I visited eastern european countries and the things that I saw there. I'd never thought I'm in europe if I would randomly wake up in some of these places. Completely rundown houses, bulletholes in some, sometimes the whole roof was missing, run down buildings some of them hundreds of years old...

On soviet side civilians died because germans were absolute savages who started an extermination war
Pfft retard we already won before first batch of lendlease arrived, it helped a bit to push germans back into their mordor shithole

>Losing doesn't feel very good but you have to wise up and see the bigger picture.
we are better off today due to several circumstances, not *because* we lost, you retard. a defeat is bad, a victory is good, you understand?
>It would have been much worse if we would have fought on instead of surrender when it made sense.
absolute latest point we should've surrendered is Stalingrad, every death after that was pointless (every death before too)
we fought on until it wasn't possible anymore.

they? who?

yeah but your industrial complexes and infrastructures pretty much went to ashes during defending moscow
i seriously doubt russians could have endured massive attrition warfare without the help from america
not that i have a right to discuss on ww2 since my cunt has been a colony shithole but still

>tf
>calls other country a mordor shithole

kek

janny-pidor, you should also respect the rule about being respectful toward other countries

>not that i have a right to discuss on ww2 since my cunt has been a colony shithole but still
that doesn't mean you can't have an opinion and partake in discussions on history... you're you your country, you're you

>you're you your country, you're you
*you're not your country

Our occupiers. They supported an independent germany.
>we are better off today due to several circumstances, not *because* we lost, you retard. a defeat is bad, a victory is good, you understand?
That's like logic of a 12 year old. We also could have fought on and maybe make guerilla wars 1 or 2 years longer. How many more would have died then? We surrendered when it was clear it would've only cost more human lives with nothing to gain. Unlike the soviet union who used all of its population as convenient cannon fodder.
>absolute latest point we should've surrendered is Stalingrad, every death after that was pointless (every death before too) we fought on until it wasn't possible anymore.
Not necessarily there was still some hope where we could've turned the tide or at least get a ceasefire. The war itself was arguably necessary.

Spoken like a true cuckold.

>Our occupiers. They supported an independent germany.
are you retarded? They formed Germany according to their ideas, not according to German ideas. That's what losing a war gets you.
>ot necessarily there was still some hope where we could've turned the tide or at least get a ceasefire. The war itself was arguably necessary.
Ok I'm not even gonna bother arguing with you further, you're unironically retarded
Shut the fuck up, you don't know shit and are an embarrassment

>are you retarded? They formed Germany according to their ideas, not according to German ideas. That's what losing a war gets you.
They sure went against nazism. But germans were free to take whichever ideology they wanted. Freedom of speech was seen as very important and germans were able to decide how they government should look like.
>Ok I'm not even gonna bother arguing with you further, you're unironically retarded
>Shut the fuck up, you don't know shit and are an embarrassment
Suit yourself, I'm just telling you how it was and how it is today.

to this day there are over 30,000 foreign soldiers on our soil. The victors took a third of our territory and expelled the Germans living there. Germany was partitioned for 40 years. No, Germany did not have any capability of fighting on in 1945, the Soviet and American armies had met at the Elbe. There was absolutely no chance in hell to get a ceasefire, that was off the table years before, I believe in 1943 the allies already stated they'd accept nothing but unconditional surrender. We got btfo, there was nothing good about it, stop coping and twisting reality, it's cringy as fuck. Just stop.

I'm not twisting reality nor am I coping. You're the one that gets all touchy about it. Sure we lost but we managed to come out of that war better than many other nations, including those that won.
That is no secret to anybody.
Also we're to blame that we still have so many soldiers stationed here. If our government would finally put some money into our military we could dissolve most of these military bases or just replace those foreign soldiers with german ones.
>Germany did not have any capability of fighting on in 1945
Sure we had. Our last big engagement was surprisingly a victory, there were even ideas to take over berlin. Luckily we didn't pull through that.
>We got btfo, there was nothing good about it
Says you, yet I see it as our fair try to world domination. Of course such things rarely go well. But hey now we can say we're up to par with the french and the brits.

>yeah but your industrial complexes and infrastructures pretty much went to ashes during defending moscow
Still was in better state than german manufacturing

>OMG NOOOOO YOU CANT KILL ME WITH BOWS AND CROSSBOWS

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>two krauts discussing in english how they fucked up ww2
priceless

Britain and only Britain.

>106870769
The Americans gave russia just about every single piece of manufacturing materials they had