What would look like biz/?
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>Opponents say it's impossible, but they're wrong
Deep
Unironically Venezuela
Judging by any attemt to try it out it would lead to no measurable economic growth, a slight increase in job loss and general apathy. Followed by a quick discontinuation of the experiment
> Chicago is proposing a UBI trial, Barack Obama is signing on to the concept, and other pilots are ongoing around the globe. Providing $1,000 a month to every citizen would mean spending something like an additional $3.9 trillion a year.
A zoo, probably a sewer zone, some roofs and like a drone dropping things from the air each day or twice a day, I don't know.
But that's not at all what's happened in the places where it's been tried. Usually there's an increase in entrepreneurial activity, decrease in crime, school grades go up..
niggas will be wearing jordans as gloves and earrings
>everyone has an extra $1000
>everything becomes $1000 more expensive
So many problems would be solved!
Imagine all the ghetto nigs and spics getting free money. Cant wait to see what they do with it
lazy unproductive shit society
Capitalism cannot function without the threat of starvation and homelessness to drive the wageslaves.
I guess it's kinda the point for UBI shills, but if you tear down the system without an appropriate alternative in place, you'd just end up .
Western economies have been suffering from low aggregate demand for decades now, ESPECIALLY since 2008. Whatever benefits UBI brings could be better delivered using regular old fashion Keynesianism, and without plunging the entire economy into an insolvency deathspiral (all UBI experiments have failed to pay for themselves).
sorry that you're retarded man
I'd probably just turn around and buy treasuries with it on principle. Government gives me money which I then turn around and loan back to the government with interest which they then use to give out more free money which inflates my returns away from my treasuries, but it's okay because I'm getting more basic income that I'm turning around and loaning back to the government.
It worked in India and they bathe in corpse water over there
rents eat it immediately
Probably spend it in a economy that's not even close to its potential output...
it would look like about tree fiddy
It would look like widespread tax evasion and mass capital flight.
The same could be said for any expansive government program.
Marginal income tax rates used to be so high that an effective income ceiling existed in most western countries in the mid-20th-century. Such things are not impossibilities. Capital strikes can be crushed - anything less is a sign of a lack of political will.
This.
Only way it ever gets wrangled through as a compromise is if you cut/consolidate all other "aw schucks" welfare programs into it.
Then the "aw schucks" people lobby back their section 8, medicaid, food stamps, etc.
Then a 4 trillion dollar program like mentioned ends up ballooning the welfare state to 8 trillion dollars a year.
I don't care if Trump gets the economy to 30 trillion, at that level of spending you start having to redefine "dollars".
Liberals literally haven't the slightest idea how supply and demand works. I hope they enjoy their $1700 efficiency apartments. ($3700 if in SanFagcisco or Jew York City. But we live so close to everything!)
>Liberals literally haven't the slightest idea how supply and demand works
And conservatives regular overuse Econ 101 supply and demand in place of actual macroeconomical understanding.
I think you've got it mistaken, Indians are generally cultured and intelligent even if a small subset bathe in the ganges or whatever. There's a reason they have a relatively low crime rate for a country as densely populated as they are.
Try this with niggers and spics who chimp out and turn every organized community into a shithole, you will see complete disintegration of society.
"it's actually really nuanced" - some faggot asking for free munny
>low crime rate
You counting in percentages bud? Cuz the population is pretty high. And so is the rape rate over there.
>supply and demand don't apply to macroeconomics
Leftards really can't get any stupider
That's neomarxist economy
State funds the corporation's profit at the cost of huge debt
The day US votes this in, it's ogre
It is not even remotely comparable with socialism, in which all the large corporations and manufactures were state owned.
Alright fair enough. But it also worked for some Native American groups. It decreased alcoholism, improved school attendance and reduced rates of emotional and psychological disorders.
There's actually a good argument for UBI, which is what you mentioned: the main cost isn't actually Shaniqua and her 12 niglets, it's the infrastructure required to support it all, the legions of government beauracrats to run it etc. If you cut ALL welfare and just ran a flat UBI, it'd be no no difference in net price, but with a substantial streamlining in government. Of course, that doesn't address the fact you're now actively paying niggers to reproduce, but from an raw economics perspective (and ignoring inflation etc) it's a possible step up from the current shit show. Course, you could also just make little microbusinesses like running a Link node viable for anyone capable of switching a computer on & combine that with falling consumer goods prices, meaning UBI isn't required.
"ah it's just supply/demand, the economy is magical and will fix itself!" - some faggot pumping out 60 billion € per month into an inflated asset bubble
It's not that supply/demand "doesn't apply", it's that it's not the whole story. Those neat little supply/demand curves the taught you in 101 class very rarely actually exist in reality, and you shouldn't base your entire ideology on neoclassical GE fantasies.
There are visions of socialism beyond simple state ownership.
You're thinking of communism.
I mean most of it would go back into rent and living expenses, how that affects things im note sure
I'd be able to afford 2BTC a year, sweet!
do you want to enlighten us or did you just read somewhere that "stuff is actually more complicated ;) ;) ;)" and stop there because you are a puddle of drool?
It will blow up aggregate demand, the economy's capacity wouldn't be able to keep up, and voilà, hyperinflation!
I am marveled by India tbqhfam. Huge population, yet *relatively little crime especially compared to africanissouthameristan. Indian dudes are always bros. Well educated population. They legit just got a hard hand dealt to them by Brit faggots. I’m glad UK will soon just be a colony of India.
looks like inflation
The latter, frankly.
But yes, it IS much more complicated.
You sound like a smart guy who's taken an econ course or two, so let me warn you about the economist fallacy: that models are in any way useful.
In this case, the UBI model's "streamlining"? It means firing Tanequa from a cushy government job administering benefits and making her have to actually find real work to pay for her weave. It means Tanequa's aggressively lobbying union moves heaven and earth to undo every single efficiency gain you can dream up. It means any wonderful and rewarding budget balancing gets completely BTFO the very next election.
you sound like someone saying objects can float upward and when someone says "gravity" you say "actually physics is a lot more complicated than just gravity ;) ;) ;) ;)"
that kind of thinking usually only tricks mobs of subhuman normies who don't know how to operate computers so I'm just surprised. can you help me understand what's going on?
Macroeconomics is a pseudoscience, the only real scientific economic subject is behavioral economics.
>Indians are generally cultured and intelligent
25% of their population can't read.
just imagine being a neet with no expenses and getting 1k per month to invest. you would probably be a millionaire in a few short years. too bad most people are retards that would just blow it on crack.
A Universal Basic Income is necessary due to the catastrophic effects globalization is causing and what the rise of AI and automation will engender. The question is of how it will be implemented. No one should resist. Change is inevitable. Resistance is futile.
A UBI awaits.
>crime
>rape
pick one
>What would look like biz/?
universal poverty
this. rape is just unwanted sex.
>forum filled with grown men who don't want to work. Live with their parents, who support them. Trade shitcoins and draw neetbux for much autism.
>They don't support UBI
Hmmmmm
>the catastrophic effects globalization is causing
Industry shifts to the third world due to high wage and worker standards. This is fixed by raising taxes to take people out of the labor pool?
>the rise of AI and automation
This is closer to solid ground, but we're not yet at the point where automation is continuously killing off more job openings than the newly freed labor can take advantage of. Nor that we need UBI beyond current retirement safety nets (if self driving trucks cause a 62 year old trucker to lose his job, he'll just start drawing SS)
basic costs of living would quickly become at least $12,000 more expensive per year than they currently are
Nvrsl bsc ncm wld prbbl b th ctlst ndd fr th mthr f ll btcn mn mssins.
Kek
Implementing a UBI and having people work is not mutually exclusive. A UBI, more than anything, is intended to serve as an addendum, not purely as income (Unless you wish. It's a free country).
I agree that we aren't there yet; however, the conversation should start sooner rather than later. A savvy politician would call for giving states block grants to let them experiment a UBI however they should please on the condition they eliminate welfare benefits to whoever would get a UBI. In my opinion, this would be a strong move forward.
>What would look like biz/?
just like this pic queue for food in warsaw under communism
>basic costs of living would quickly become at least $12,000 more expensive per year than they currently are
this but with a massive rise in taxation and rise in the number of unemployed. Its a meme propagated as a subversion tactic by the enemies of the usa and eu and loved by lasy fools
O make a bigger mob and fewer workers and promise them free grain and games. That will work. Fuck off you commie faggot
Pajeets are always so fucking obvious with these posts lmao
A UBI is originally the idea made by free market capitalists like Milton Friedman, Thomas Paine, and Friedrich Hayek. Try again.
most of the total money supply is spent on luxuary goods, so it wouldnt impact things poor people need very much. UBI is a simple redistribution from very rich to poor people.
That is the reason you wont see it happen unfortunatly
When that happened the rich just created loopholes to stop paying taxes. So overall they just took less in taxes.
Literally temporarily embarrassed millionaires lol. Yeah sure, ALL of you will be millionaires one day, suuure.
Yeah we'll all be millionaires because a million dollars will be worthless thanks to your retards.
SUPERPOWER BY 2020
Wouldn't this just cause a spike in inflation similar to the placebo of minimum wage increases?
>Thomas Paine
To pick just one made no reference to anything like UBI
>b-but this is logical for you! WE'RE GONNA KEEP ENGINEERING YOUR FOR SELF-DESTRUCTION ANYWAY!!! EVERY VACCINE AND FILLING YOU GET IS GONNA HAVE TWICE AS MUCH MERCURY!!!!! WHY ARE YOU STILL SO AMBITIOUS?!?!?! WHY AREN'T YOU AS EASY TO CONVERT TO SELF-DESTRUCTION AS THE BOOMERS!!!!!!!!!!! RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
also nice fucking leddit spacing you quadruple faggot
tards would still squander their money and liberals would try to give them more
you made water go up my nose with that first sentence.
If this is a shill post, it sure is low energy.
>most of the total money supply is spent on luxuary goods, so it wouldnt impact things poor people need very much. UBI is a simple redistribution from very rich to poor people
Most poor people are poor for a reason, they are their parents were irresponsible stupid or lazy. Give them free money and they will spend it in kayne west trainers and they riot because they dislike their living conditions. We already know this. Are you from some other planet where reality does not apply?
mfw
Meh whatever we got to do to pump my gold and crypto bags.
200 million citizens
$1000 a month
$2.4 Trillion a year
for comparison USA had $3 trillion revenue in taxes.
So in order to achieve that we'd have to double everyone's tax rates
lower class workers would simply stop working since that's barely less than they get now and their jobs are the shittiest.
with all that tax revenue disappearing it would have to
UBI would only work in very small amounts. the fact is most jobs aren't automated and are very difficult to automate, and that's why they're not.
cut all other social programs implement UI and destroy the government welfare bureaucracy anyone with half a fucking brain realises this is 10x better than the current system
I'm fine with people arguing that there are some valid aspects of socialism in a productive society in which everyone who can contribute does.
To say that it would work in America or anywhere there is a large population of welfare queens and a lack of civic duty is fucking laughable. Socialism as a society is doomed to fail but socializing certain things is fine IN SOME IDEAL SOCIETIES WHICH AMERICA IS NOT.
Which is what really needs to get through a lot of thick socialist skulls. It simply does not work for the large majority of countries and only a fucking blind and naive idealistic idiot would think it does.
No one should get a free link every month.
Surplus sex, even.
UBI is implied communism, so we have a pretty good idea how it will go down.
>he thinks everyone here is a worthless neet
Sorry, mate. Just you.
The free market would immediately expand offering a range of goods and services tailor-made for this specific UBI demographic. Usury would be involved in the form of payment plans.
reminder to sage and hide commie threads
Prices for luxury goods would gradualy rise until the $1000 a month isn't noticeable. Look at a ghetto where everyone is getting effectively $500-800 dollars a month by taking money they would have spent on food and putting it elsewhere. What effect does it have.
Jesus dude.
12000
×
300,000,000
________
36,000,000,000
36billion per year
Another thread showed Americans paied 100billion on interest for their credit cards.
>Capitalism good
Bailout is not capitalism. It is socialism for the rich only.
Actually this is good for anyone who runs a business, people would splurge . The only people who will be happy to get this is the same people who can’t save 1000$ . This is literally taxing the poor since welfare will be basically over. We can finally get push the useless lazy people out of society.
>The communist/socialist can't into math
It is 3.6 Trillion you retard.
venezuelan hyper inflation as others have pointed out
basically nothing the government does to create value only causes inflation, government cannot create value
>welare will basically be over
No, this is on top of welfare. Otherwise that would be racist.
>communist math
its 3.6 TRILLION per year you retarded nigger
UBI is a great idea, I know, I got one (I'm a trust fund kid)
I don't support the idea of flat UBI, but income-based UBI. ie., UBI up to 1k/mo, but if you make more than that, then you don't get anything
For the top-end whiners going to bitch about their no-gains in this situation... (and really, fuck you if you can't make over 12k/yr) a negative income tax in part derived from the cost benefits of the UBI in terms of GDP
I will accept a UBI in return for a 15% flat tax.
Dis faggot is on fire
POO
Yup there's so much division in the U.S. between various groups that everyone views the system with some level of contempt because they view it as working against their own group and in the interest of competing groups, therefore everyone is out to get as much as they can from the system without putting anything back in. This is what you get in diverse Brazil like societies, you have this tribal instinct that causes nobody gives a fuck about their fellow countrymen and the entire nation rots.
Hey don't be mean to me it wasn't my fault. I'm not retarded my calculator is.
Better shoot it in the back of the head and remove it from every picture it was ever in to make sure it doesn't undermine your glorious vision.
Welfare will be reduced. How can you argue against this? I don’t know what the US welfare rate is. But Canada is like 500$?? If they give you 2x welfare plus welfare that’s almost unjustified. Everyone would go on welfare then. Minimum wage jobs wouldn’t exist. Welfare would be drastically reduced.
>There's a reason they have a relatively low crime rate for a country as densely populated as they are.
You ever been to India? You get off the plane and 9 out of 10 people you talk to are scammers. Sure, it's not violent crime but it is still crime.
My company had someone come to the airport to pick me up to avoid the scammers, but then a scammer showed up claiming he was from my company. Thankfully I was in contact with the dude over Email and sorted it out quick. Idiot (the guy coming to pick me up) ran his month to a few cousins and they tried to follow suit.
So basically welfare