Now that the dust has settled, what went wrong?

The basic notions and premises of marxism (the idea of a permanent class struggle, a self-governing proletariat, a planned economy and materialism) regarding economy and society are utterly wrong. Furthermore, the communist themselves adhere to this incoherent ideological mess as a messianic religion. Their morality revolves around the making of a revolution by any means, disregarding completely what normal people would see as basic human decency. There are some catastrophes that only the communist movement managed to spawn - the self-annihilation of ruling classes moved by political rivalry (USSR, China, Cuba); the deliberate killing of most of the military officialdom (USSR); the extermination of a fourth part of a nation outside war by its own government (Cambodia); and the calculated material destruction and closure of a nation to reinforce the revolutionary elite (Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela).

Americans trying to fuck it up

They were too soft on remaining bourgeuois elements after comrade Stalin passed away

They betrayed the vision of Stalin, aka God

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this

Right wingers are constantly torn between "Socialism doesn't work" and "The Soviet Union was a super power that threatened the United States global hegemony"

Both of these are true

Stalin was a faggot mass murderer who's legacy is completely gone. Hmmm, where have i heard this before?

if Socialism doesn't work how did Russia go from a Tsarist fuedal shithole to world super power that rivaled the US in all sectors

Both are true. SU threatenend USA but as socialism doesn't work, it failed in the end. None of these opinions are contradictorary

Because this tsarist shithole had lasted for several hundred years while SU couldn't even 100 years lol

Communism without a state is a complete and total pipe-dream since you can't force people to work without a state and, let alone have an optimized economy

You can't force your population to work certain jobs that no one wants to work without having to point a gun in their face, and when you start pointing guns in people's faces you're no longer stateless

now that there's a state, corruption takes over and we all know how it goes from there

inb4

>greed and corruption are caused by capitalism xD

I dismiss anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism equally, but at least the AnCaps have their system thought out to the nth degree while you have to squeeze a straight answer out of a commie.

the Soviet Union improved the lives of millions in Russia and the people voted to remain as a Soviet bloc, but the post-Stalin leadership wanted to transition to free market Capitalism. Now look at Russia today, a literal shit hole.

Believing people in authority with no love for their citizens would not be corrupt. With Fascism the government at least loves its own people.

didn't it also literally end the lives of millions? (in both USSR and China) or is that just western/right wing propaganda?

The fact is that people are characterized by egoism and a thirst to be richer than others. And the late USSR could not resist it. While some people have built factories that will benefit all citizens, others have waited for the moment when they can pick up these factories.

This.
Gommunism is a great idea if everybody on earth was actually on the same terms, but that's literally impossible and contradicts human nature

Khrushchev's Trotskyite revisionism and Gorbachev's liberal revisionism.

Cringe

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>or is that just western/right wing propaganda?
Western/right wing propaganda. The populations of both the USSR and China skyrocketed under communism as birth rates were high, infant mortality was reduced and life expectancy more than doubled.

Just because the populations increase doesn't mean millions didnt die lol, especially in the case of China. even 40 million dead is a drop in the bucket

>suddenly the USSR is real communism

40 gorillion people didn't die. There was a famine yes, but it was mostly caused by poor weather and shit-tier farming technology because the Qing didn't bother to modernize anything. CPC policy definitely played a small part but that paled in comparison to the actual causes of the famine. China had had recurring famines throughout it's history and they finally ended after Mao came in and industrialized the country.

>muh human nature
We might as well all kill ourselves.

He said socialism, not communism you brainlet. Communism is the final stage, while socialism is an intermediary phase between capitalism and communism.

>industrialization
And there's the key to Russia and China's booms under communism, kinda like every single country on earth that incorporated it. You don't need communism to industrialize

no, i was told the USSR is state capitalism

will you leftist niggers make up your minds?

What? Obviously there's no perfect system, but everyone is literally not equal, and you can't stomp out greed no matter how much your authoritarian government tries
Sick argument though

>stalin was based

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so what you're saying is that communism exists only in the mind of teenagers and retards?

>haha I said nigger again XD

shut up nigger

basado

Why don't you just stick to reddit? This place clearly isn't for you

You are a very based poster

>You don't need communism to industrialize
If you're a poor, exploited Eastern nation you do. The West won't allow you to industrialize on your own unless it's making cheap Nike shoes for subsistence wages.
Those are faggot leftcoms who say the USSR was State Capitalism. We Marxist-Leninists believe the USSR was socialism.
No, it just hasn't been reached yet because the productive forces didn't advance enough to bring it about. That and the West sabotaged the USSR before the technology to bring about full communism came into existence.

>We Marxist-Leninists

Basicallythe biggest bootlickers of all time? At least capitalist bootlickers are in it to gain capital, but tankies lick boot FOR FREE

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you're way too deep into the kool-aid dude. how old are you exactly?

You think USSR or China being able to compete with the west economically means communism is good, the problem though is that the average person living in those countries (historically and presently) quality of life pales in comparison to your average Westerner. You can call it muh materialism or whatever you say to cope with everyone being poor, but a nation being big economically =/= a good place to live

Nothing.

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No, I'm in it for the future of the human race. My reward is the transformation of humanity to it's highest stage of development.
I'm 23, so hardly an edgy teenager or whatever bullshit right-wing NPC shit you're going to say.

ah yes the glorious communist country of china, where billionaires own private property where they employ people to work for shit wages

>le skyscrapers means country is GOOD!!!

Yes, the point is is that the USSR and China didn't have massive colonial empires that allowed them to steal the wealth from the rest of the world to enrich their own countries. I'll freely admit that the standard of living in the USSR and China was not as high as it was in the West, but that isn't the point. The point is that things greatly improved for the people of both of those nations under communism and had it not been for communism they would just be exploited raw material and cheap labor colonies for the neoliberal West, just like the rest of the 3rd world is today.

>I'm 23, so hardly an edgy teenager
lmao 23, time to grow up.
>bullshit right-wing NPC shit
i'm not even right-wing but you should stop stealing their shitty memes. you should know you're just as bad as them.

Do you really think that communism in the USSR and communism in China are the same thing?

>ah yes the glorious communist country of china, where billionaires own private property where they employ people to work for shit wages
It's a dictatorship of the proletariat. They haven't even established full on socialism, let alone communism. They are developing their productive forces.
No but they do indicate development, which is a good thing.

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quiet, leftcom

lmfao
lemme guess, the US only became powerful because it was built on the back of muh po black slaves? What would we have ever done without free cotton pickers? They BUILT THIS COUNTRY!!!
The whole "West is prosperous because they stole" argument must be the most soi shit you can possibly say. How can you explain the non imperialist Western nations that are way better off than any commie country?

>growing up means thinking in neoliberal NPC terms like me
Grow up.
>you should know you're just as bad as them.
How? I want a beautiful and glorious future for all of mankind while they want some retarded military dictatorship where people work 70 hour weeks for pennies for muh fatherland. How are we even remotely similar?

>How can you explain the non imperialist Western nations that are way better off than any commie country?
>western nations
>non-imperialist

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>retarded military dictatorship where people work 70 hour weeks for pennies for muh fatherland
The fuck? Places like France and most of Western Europe work less than 40 a week, and are well off
Oh wait, that's cuz they stole all their wealth from Africa right? lmfao

How can you even call yourself a communist if you actually think China is communist? How can you see a country that runs complete on the idea of capital as communist?

Do you also think North Korea is democratic because they call themselves the DPRK?

Finland? Switzerland? There's plenty
PS a USSR fanboy BAWWing about imperialism is fucking hilarious. You must be baiting

>Oh wait, that's cuz they stole all their wealth from Africa right? lmfao
>stole
>past tense
They are still fucking Africa. France is why Libya is the way it is today.

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"Lefties" are not some monolith. It's a running joke how factionalism and constant infighting over orthodoxy is rampant in socialist/communist parties parties.

big boi can say reddit and nigger uwu :3

>not realizing European imperialism was a net benefit for Africa
Libya's state has to do with the fact that it's a country full of incompetent 3rd worlders combined with US foreign policy there

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>lemme guess, the US only became powerful because it was built on the back of muh po black slaves?
Yes, basically. The US industrialized in the 19th century by using free agricultural labor to in the South to fuel the factories in the North. I find it hilarious how right-wingers try to pretend slavery had nothing to do with the economic growth of the US and that slaves were just taken for fun. The South literally started a massive war that killed 600,000 people just to keep their slaves, but sure, tell me more about how it was trivial and had no real impact on the economy.
>The whole "West is prosperous because they stole" argument must be the most soi shit you can possibly say.
Muh soy meme. Come up with a real argument you pathetic right-wing faggot.
>How can you explain the non imperialist Western nations that are way better off than any commie country?
They rode the coattails of the imperialist countries by trading with and receiving investment from the imperialist countries since they were in such close proximity to them and from having royal familial ties to those nations. How come nations in the Balkans were poor, backwards shitholes before communism if they were part of muh glorious West? How come many of these countries like Italy, Portugal and Greece are now facing severe economic hardships despite being part of muh glorious West?

>what went wrong?
Not much.

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I'm literally not the guy saying nigger, but since you mentioned it, kys Pierre Al-Mbombo

>growing up means thinking in neoliberal NPC terms like me
no it means maturing beyond shitty meme ideas that have never worked at all and recognizing just how privileged you are to live in a capitalist democracy. I was a Jow Forumstard rightoid when i was 16 and matured beyond it, it's time you do too.
>How? I want a beautiful and glorious future for all of mankind while they want some retarded military dictatorship where people work 70 hour weeks for pennies for muh fatherland. How are we even remotely similar?
Has it ever occurred to you that they want the exact same thing? Has it ever occurred to you that every communist country ends up as a retarded military dictatorship where people work 70 hour weeks for pennies for durr people. You are both destructive ideologies that have no place in civilized society. Two sides of the same coin that are so far up their own asses to realise it.

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You commies failed. Just let it go for fucks sake youre like a boomer talking about his highschool football days. Kys

>Socialism doesn't wo-

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I'm talking about right-wingers you fucking brainlet. France fucked Africa for decades and continues to fuck Africa til this day as this poster said. Fucking retard, you realize Gaddafi developed Libya into a prosperous nation by nationalizing Libya's oil industry right? Of course you don't because you're a fucking Western NPC that takes the news as truth. Libya was fine until the US fucking destroyed it because Gaddafi dared to defy the neoliberal order.

Stalinism was abandoned. They should've continued stalin's policies basically.

youtube.com/watch?v=fTAVoBaMPcs

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>as this poster said.
samefag, you "two" have the exact same writing style

like how this post gets ignored

Nothing about it was a good idea and it was intended as a scam and coup from start

>You can't force your population to work certain jobs that no one wants to work

By the time full Communism is implemented these jobs will be fully automated

>You commies failed
Imagine believing this.

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>the time full Communism is implemented

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I do realize how privileged I am to live in a Western capitalist democracy, because the standard of living in my country and other Western countries is built on the misery and suffering of billions of people in the third world, and is pushing the planet to the brink of ecological armageddon and literally nobody fucking cares. The world can be a better place for everyone, once we get rid of the neoliberal order.
>Has it ever occurred to you that every communist country ends up as a retarded military dictatorship where people work 70 hour weeks for pennies for durr people.
Nope. People in communist countries usually worked 40 hours a week and were compensated fairly for overtime. According to my Russian Soviet history professor, the USSR gave its workers two months of vacation minimum, along with parental leave, healthcare, secondary education and a variety of other benefits. The USSR wasn't perfect obviously, but its retarded to believe the propaganda that it was this horrendous place to live and everyone hated it. My professor, and many others like him, remembers the USSR quite fondly. Right-wingers only care about muh tradition and muh Roman statues and are too retarded to see how the bourg is fucking them. We are entirely different.

Why did you post a graph about a bunch of capitalist countries? We're talking about communism, retard.

>Why did you post a graph about a bunch of capitalist countries?
>muh not true socialism
How does it feel to be a walking caricature? You should feel like a faggot btw.

I mean, if anything this tells us that social democracy is what works

Based and redpilled, comrade.
Cringe and bluepilled, faggot.
Is this supposed to be a coherent argument?

There's a long tradition of Jewish socialism though, Israel isn't really a shining beacon of capitalism

>According to my Russian Soviet history professor,
Welp, that explains everything
No wonder you're so over zealously stupid

>every commie in this thread is american
rly activates the almonds

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>zero arguments

Call me when you want a serious discussion

Israel is very right wing. The kibbutzim failed and were never a big thing. The "jewish socialism" meme is a lie that is fed to idiotic american jews so that they think Israel is some kind of progressive paradise.

It's one shitflinging autist who unironically buys into his universities bullshit tropes of the West being the only peoples to ever exploit and/or oppress anyone

>get to experience actually existing capitalism
>become commie
Wow. Funny how that works.

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I find it funny how you constantly claim that communists don't know what communism was like and should talk to people who lived under it to learn how bad it was, but then once the people who lived under it reject the propaganda and tell you how it truly was, then we're just gullible.

I'm not the same guy that you think I am

When did I ever say that the West were the only peoples to ever exploit or oppress anyone? Nice whataboutism by the way, is the fact that non-Western countries have oppressed people supposed to justify the atrocities of the West and make capitalism innocent and blameless?

They're also almost always upper-middle class or above, white (not that I care, but it's ironic), and have likely never stepped foot in a 3rd world country or former communist nation

Being right-wing doesn't mean your country is a liberal utopia or that it should be used as a good example of capitalism. Same as left-wing doesn't mean the same as progressive.

>multiple people, American, Russian and Brazilian among others, defend communism
>HURR ONLY MUH MURIMUTTS ARE GOMMUNISTS
Go suck your faggot PM's nuts, classcuck.