So it's widely known the "bailout" of Greece was actually a bailout of German and French banks paid for by Greeks. Why I don't understand is why did Greek politicians went along with it? Surely they could have just said no and declared bankruptcy.
barrons.com
Yes I know this is touching on politics slightly but Jow Forums is a shitshow and I assume there's people on Jow Forums knowledgeable about this.
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Because imagine Brexit but instead of being the UK, the 5th largest economy in the world, you're Greece, and see how well that turns out.
I don't know but looking like greece housing bottomed out
would be a good buy
because if they didn't go along with it they would be bankrupt and have no money to pay for anything
You forget that many EU politicians believe in a European State as strongly as Americans belirve in the USA. They are deeply ideologically driven, and care little for the individuals in member states.
Greece borrowed a shit ton and couldn't pay it back.
If Greece wants to maintain good relations with their creditors... they need to play ball.
don't let Greece play the victim they partied for years on German money then cry like students who want their loans forgiven
Yep. Heard from a Greek friend who worked in the government at the time that they were claiming for more subsidies for shit like Olive growing than could be sustained even if every square inch of the country was just olive trees. It's ridiculous it was allowed to happen but both the EU and Greece turned a blind eye, because it was about the project and expanding the EU with bought votes.
So you're saying they would have been expelled from the EU?
German banks lent money that they knew couldn't be repaid. They are just as responsible.
The slimy Greeks cooked their books, gave shitton of bonuses to government employees, received a fuckload of subsidies and a bunch of other stuff whilst not paying taxes. They received a helping hand while they shouldve been let to rot
Greece was as lazy and corrupt as Russia before the crash
How is greece doing? I remember hearing how fucked things were a long time ago when their economy collapsed but are they still functioning? Im wondering what its gonna be like when its the US.
Greeze is lazy. The always siesta (or whatever the fuck the arabian niggers call it) during workdays. I remember visiting one of their cities. Literally at 2 to 4 nobody worked in the main city. An economy cant thrive when people come to work at 8-9, chill from 2-4 and then leave at 4. Its literally a meme working there.
Add to that the fact that teachers get paid like they are some sand niggers and thus education plummets. There is no reason to be a teacher in Greece if you really, truly want to help the society gain more intelligence.
Add to that the fact that Greece is mega corrupt in terms of politics and the security department (police etc.). Literally all the money is being drawn to some big dudes who unironically spend it like some NEETs would here. Yachts, bitches, cars etc. I have an attorney friend who told me he had a meeting with a high Greece official. Meeting took place on a Yacht and the sums were min. 200k. While the rest of the country eats sand, the top is living a lavish life.
Add to that the fact that Greece doesnt produce anything. They have 0 things there. Cant cut wood, cant mine resources, cant grow food. They are literally a "NEET" country in my books in the world.
All-in-all Greece is just lazy and took the easy route. Now due note this what i have talked with my friends. We believe that Greece is trying to hope that EU collapses and thus the loan is just "Deleted". Brexit already happened right? Its actually quite ingenius if you think about it. Loan shitloads of money from EU and hope that EU collapses. Unfortunately Greece only knows how to scam people like the good old sand niggers know. Visit London and you can see how they conduct "Business" on the streets.
Greece had no choice. This is what's been happening across the globe for many decades now.
Central banks will engineer a crises > put forward fraudulent debts via IMF as only solution > steal assets and cartelize national infrastructure/economy > impose austerity and shift the slaves to a service economy > rinse > repeat
Once we've seen what's going on 'behind the curtain', it's all so obvious.
Question is: Do we have the courage to do the right thing?
>Do we have the courage to do the right thing?
If you mean pretending I'm waiting until the point of no return then sure. It's over, we're too entertained to give a shit and those with power know how to displace, drop red herrings and infiltrate actual threats... Bullish on snitches and ways others can back up my data with unforeseen governmental consequences.
The global noose is certainly getting tighter, and thanks to the powerful lobbyist everywhere there are no good guys left to protect our liberties. I too am waiting with a minimal digital footprint as possible.
>Surely they could have just said no and declared bankruptcy
At that time, bankruptcy would have mean being expelled from the EU, losing access to any kind of credit, their own banks going down the shitter and losing access to the common market, and having to slap a full monetary reform in a few weeks.
Basically, they would have been much worse than with the bailout. Like, Venezuela-tier.
>hurrr return to the drachma = exit from EUdurrr
Greek with more than half a brain here, let me explain to you what really happened:
>be Merkel
>tell idiots that if they leave the eurozone (euro) they also leave the EU (shengen, borders, "free" trade etc)
>idiots believe you
>use said idiots to leverage your demands with the help of corrupt neoliberal media
>have a propaganda department so good, even 5 years later idiots will defend the position that exiting the eurozone is exiting the EU
Get fucked you absolute fucking retard, idiots like you are the reason Greece is destroyed FOREVER. People don't understand how badly the country was fucked over and that there is no return after the neocons bought everything out.
Turkey is having the greatest tourism year ever thanks to the crumbling value of the lira, Greece could have done the same.
Greece would actually be better with her own currency, because it would have killed imports, benefited exports and made Greece among the top tourist spots in the world (it already is, but we're talking top 3 if it was cheaper)
>tell idiots that if they leave the eurozone (euro) they also leave the EU (shengen, borders, "free" trade etc)
Well it is the case, actually, without the Euro Greece could not meet the requirement to be in the EU in the first place (as in, not having a Zimbabwe-tier economy).
>Surely they could have just said no and declared bankruptcy.
And surely 5M Greeks who work for their public sector would have rioted after all of a sudden they didn't get any pay. Same for all social benefits etc.
You borrow 100 euros from a friend.
You spend it on booze or whatever, and can't pay back to your friend, and also your friend is a dick and demands interest, so it is 110 euros now. He is getting mad, and telling everyone that you're not paying, which makes other people (whose loans, or at least interest, you actually have paid, and who you depend on loands) uncomfortable loaning more to you.
Your friend's friend gives your friend 110 euros so that your life doesn't get ruined, because you help him sometimes and he depends on you having your life together.
You go REEEEEE because your friend's friend gave the 110 euros to your friend, and not you! The bastard!
The most hilarious truth about this post is that greeks actually spent their borrowed money on booze and partying in the first place.
Idk about the main hubs but tourism is absolutely booming.
The real question is why IMF said Greece cannot reduce spending on military if they want the baillout.
You realize that Greece has a bigger economy than a lot of 3rd world EU countries, and most importantly that without the Euro their economy would actually improve? No?
It's ok, you're just a braindead fucking retard, no worries.
Iceland defaulted and took the pain. They are fine now.
Ireland didn't, and have taken themselves back into serfdom for the next 100 years.
There is always a choice.
>You realize that Greece has a bigger economy than a lot of 3rd world EU countries
The only reason it's the case it BECAUSE Greece gorged itself on deficit spending while in the euro in the first place.
Greece entered the Euro in 2001 and saw it's GDP triple in 7 years thanks to it.
greece also pads their books the most
The US department of education claimed there were 180 school shootings last year.
NPR did some research, called each school on the list, and verified... only 60 of them had shootings.
the more i look at stats provided by different governements, the less i trust them. if you look at mexico's murder rate they don't have much at all... until you see things like bodies on the beach in Cancun and think maybe they're just bullshitting everyone.
To understand the whole thing about the huge euro debt bubble Greece profited until 2008, you gotta understand that even with a recession between 2008 and 2016, the average greek GDP growth from 2001 to 2018 is over 3% yearly.
In 2001, before the Euro, Greece was as poor as Poland is today.
>the more i look at stats provided by different governements, the less i trust them. if you look at mexico's murder rate they don't have much at all... until you see things like bodies on the beach in Cancun and think maybe they're just bullshitting everyone.
top kek
Where do you even get these numbers? After forgiving Germany's WWII debts in the 70s and getting out of a US-mandated military dictatorship, Greece wasn't rich but could support itself.
The fact that Greece's economy "grew" thanks to the Euro doesn't take into account that everything became way more expensive.
Nice gatekeeping though, you brought out your fake numbers and everything... Fucking neoliberal scumbags
IMF and World Bank numbers. I mean, they aren't even hard to check. I take GDP per capita as a measurement.
>The fact that Greece's economy "grew" thanks to the Euro doesn't take into account that everything became way more expensive.
Of course it takes it into account, since salaries and pensions grew as well, that's exactly what I'm telling you.
Greece borrowed a lot of money on the markets to distribute it into the economy trough high wages, high pensions and such. It made prices grow a lot, and made the economy at whole grow. Still, as a matter of GDP per capita, Greece before the Euro was just as rich as Poland is now.
If you prefer to understand like that : up until 2008, Greece wages and pensions were in a bubble created by a large influx of normie creditors (german and french banks). The bubble burst and now the living standards of greeks are back to what they should be if their growth stayed organic.
The greeks did the right thing since 2008 : going back to a normal level of spending, and on the other side the creditors did make a lot of the debt disappear. All those things are facts.
Now we can speculate about what would have happened if Greece fucked off the Euro and massively devaluated its money, but the result would have been exactly the same : lower wages and pensions, just like Venezuela right now.
>the creditors did make a lot of the debt disappear
Greek debt in 2008 ~ 180 billion EUR
Greek debt in 2018 ~ >300 billion
You fucking cunt, I wish a horrible death on all neoliberal media influencers. You faggots are the worst type of cockroaches to ever set foot on this godforsaken planet
Greek debt in 2008 was 280 billions euros, my dude, and since you guys keep on spending more than you earned until 2011, it even jumped to 350 billions. You got a 50 billions rebate on your debt after that.
You should listen less to populists telling you you are the victim and everyone else is to blame, and try to scapegoat a bit less.
I mean, if we compare 2008 and 2018 numbers, a 3% yearly growth isn't even that bad. It's higher than France for example.
meant for
I mean, if you still don't understand how your country was managed :
In 2001 Greece was as rich (GDP per inhabitant) as nowadays Poland
In 2008 Greece was as rich as nowadays Italy or France
How was that not a bubble ?
Random user expert who is suddenly an expert.
Greeks work more hours that their average European counterpart. All in all, people enjoy life better here. Everyone and their mom wants a house in Greece and it’s islanda whereas Western eurocucks fall into depression and end up suicidng because living sucks balls in their countries.
Feels bad, fag?
Are you for real nigger? The other guy actually did research, understands your economy way better than you, and then tried to expain it in a polite, well thougth-out manner. You on the other hand is a fucking moron who screams "reee neol8beral gatekeeoing jews" whenever he is proven wrong.
Lol look at this poorfag
Greece is the turkey of europe
I'm on holidays here and the crisis speaks for itself. The biggest sign is the unfinished buildings. When you see plenty of those, you know the banks are completely fucked.
>The biggest sign is the unfinished buildings. When you see plenty of those, you know the banks are completely fucked.
You know that greeks are leaving their house unfinished to avoid paying taxes on them ?
It's widely known that it was Goldman Sachs with their under the counter loans...
Full retard
If Greece had returned to the drachma it would have recovered by now because I would have been able to set it's own domestic policies.
Instead it's being gutted by the EU to protect the German Euro. Just like Spain is, Ireland was, Italy will be.
>German banks lent money that they knew couldn't be repaid. They are just as responsible.
germany falsified Greece'a credit rating in order to be able to bring them in. Merckel created the situation
The EU has been great for Ireland, you don't know wtf you're talking about.
:''''''') go drive tru greece boy.
jesus
so greece has debt cannot pay for.
tell me please one nation that doesn't have debt.
so, who owns credit for all the nations debt ?
and WHY they owns this credit ?
it's not that hard to tell imo.
better wake up people..
Disgusting brussels cockroach keyboard warriors, lowest lifeform on this planet and the worst part is that we pay your fucking wages, you public servant cunts
Rot
>be "Greek"
>read "Greek" history
>realize we are just a collection of Christian Armenians, Albanians, Turks, Slavs, etc.
>pisspoor
>surrounded by idiots
>only have 1000 LINK
Olympus hates me
fuck this gay world
You must embrace the boy-lover culture
You will not make it until you fuck a tight shota ass
guys you can get a golden visa and become greece citizen after 7 years if you buy a property worth at least 250k euro. I'm thinking of escaping and becoming greek, but I know fuck all about greece. thoughts?
jokes on you, I actually think male love is based
>Neokleos please tell me you went to the brothel rather than to that youth
>he just understands me in ways you will never can because you are a woman Antigoneia
OP politicians don't care about the country. Their goal is to get the power and keep it for as long as possible.
Our PM was raised to be a politician (of the 3% opposition) and by some crazy accident he became one.
Even if he was that special caring case (which he proved he ain't) he wouldn't know what to do. Coz he is an undereducated tool.
Previous ones are the same.
Allready 2x bwoi
minimum wage is now at poverty line
Taxes at ATH
Tourism actually fucked us coz housing is going up
Next time... the red pill
location location location
Need to pay burgers and eurobuddies for protec
Even so, efficiency is low
he fucks
Find a chink, he'll sell you his property minutes after he bought it
Bonus: they don't know what crypto is
Uff, heavy words from a good-for nothing faggot greek as yourself. Are you actually proud of your low iq? It definitely seems like it... You fucking people need to understand: you are the problem with your country. You are in debt because you are constantly fucking up.
>I actually think male love is based
So do i
We fucked up forgiving deutsch debt, I'll give you that. We should have hanged the deutsches where they stood instead of sending them back to Nuremberg and we should never had forgave their huge ass debts.
We should have hanged the neoliberal politicians as well as their sockpuppets too.
Other than that I hate neoliberal influencer cucks on principle, you guys are the lowest form of cuckroaches on earth and your children will grow to be cuckroaches as well.
You do not deserve discussion and debates, you are lying, soulless, worthless little faggots and people know who you are and what you are. You came to the wrong place to peddle the words of your masters and all neocons and neoliberals are disgusting pedos like Thatcher, the Bushes etc.
Chans know exactly what you plebs stand for and by the way I may be good for nothing and living in a failed state, but I've been swimming non-stop in some of the greatest beaches of the northern hemisphere.
I hope you learned to enjoy the stale air from your air conditioner while I'm snorkling, faggot
BTW I bet your owners don't pay you enough to even visit a failed state such as Greece for fucking week, lmao. It's ok though, cause at least they get to buy a house here on the cheap.
> ywn live in the prosperous worker's paradise of GERMANY
>Merckel created the situation
This