United States of Greater Austria

definitely more stable

Funnily enough, one of the main reasons the Black Hand wanted to take Franz out was that he planned to give Serbs and other Slavs in AH a lot of autonomy. They were afraid that he would be the guy that would finally make the Slavs in the Empire happy and stop the state from disintegrating.
Although on the other hand, the Serbian state itself warned the Austrians of the Black Hand's plans, but they were ignored. I feel like everyone secretly wanted Franz dead. He was too liberal for everyone's liking

>Franz Ferdinand was a proponent of the idea tho, right?
Kind of, he wanted to dismantle the dual monarchy since the Hungarian part was causing numerous problems for the empire, and wanted to give people autonomy and more liberties
> I wonder if he would've forced it through (maybe with support from Germany) if he got into power.
He couldn't force it trough precisely because of Hungary, but he would try his hardest to weaken the Hungarian part
>Looks to me like the only ethnic group from A-H that would've been unhappy with it would've been the Hungarians
While the Hungarians as a whole would be unhappy, many minority intellectuals in the Hungarian part would be unhappy as well. While Hungary was oppressing the minorities it was doing so only in the terms of language, so intellectuals who spoke Hungarian benefited from the system as well

wouldn't the reform have given more power to the emperor tho? then Austria would've become more effective again because not every decision would've had to be made twice both in Austria and Hungary. At the "payoff" of having to grant more regional autonomy for the various ethnicities

Attached: Ferdinand_Schmutzer_-_Franz_Ferdinand_von_Österreich-Este,_um_1914.jpg (1278x1808, 736K)

No.

why not?

>wouldn't the reform have given more power to the emperor tho?
Depends on what route he would take and what things he would compromise on, but generally yes
> then Austria would've become more effective again because not every decision would've had to be made twice both in Austria and Hungary.
This was not the only problem, and not even the major one. The biggest problem was that Hungary was allowed to do whatever it wanted in their territories and had a different constitution and a different system of administration
>At the "payoff" of having to grant more regional autonomy for the various ethnicities
It was not about autonomy most of the time, most of the minorities only wanted their language to be protected and to have representatives representing their nations in the parliament (it would be less about the nation and more about the region in practice)
Not a lot of people cared about administering their own people in the Hungarian part since there weren't a lot of intellectuals there

God I wish that were me

Yeah because further centralizing the state that's drowning in unrest for autonomy always works.
Nigga the Austrians needed Slav help and Russian intervention just to quell the Hungarian revolt. I don't think any Slavs or Russians would help them win a war for increasing centralization.

if the various ethnicities were given limited autonomy and got their language protected, loyalty to the Habsburg emperor would've probably increased. The people of the Habsburg monarchy were often very loyal to the emperor, regardless of their nationality, because the Habsburg administration was relatively good to the people. If Hungary would've lost its special status and all ethnicities would've gotten limited autonomy under Vienna's supreme rule, I'm pretty sure the monarchy would've become more stable and effective both internally and externally.

The creation of it would led to a pretty huge shitstorm, not only Magyars but also Poles and Czechs would have been vehemently against it. I'm not sure whether any ruler would have been willing to go through it in the end.

Also, abolishing the crown lands would have kind of been against the spirit of the Habsburg monarchy. It took its legitimacy from tradition being the lawful rulers of the crown lands, which often used to be their own countries before they were inherited or gained in another way by the Habsburgs. Therefore ,doing away with these centuries old institution seemed questionable.

Then there's also the possibility that creating administrative units strictly based on ethnic lines would have intensified the centrifugal tendencies of the state. Think about Belgium as a negative example.

Reminder that Croatia will restore Habsburgs back to the throne.

If it means something, Croatia got their right as a third entity, agreed by Magyars, two weeks before the collapse of AH.

>Hungarians got the majority-Hungarian land after WW1 + even pieces of majority-German lands

>mmmuuuuh Trianon reeeeeee

what's wrong with them

why would Poles and Czechs be against it? All ethnicities except Magyars would profit from it as they would get their own official language areas (Magyars would lose power tho)
also, regarding the crown lands, couldn't these language areas not be created as subdivisions of the already existing crown lands to preserve the old structure at least on paper?

>why would Poles and Czechs be against it?

Because Poles would rather live together with other Poles in independent Poland.

Dunno about Czechs, I guess they would be more likely to accept their idea as all Czech lands were in A-H.

>Because Poles would rather live together with other Poles in independent Poland.
of course, but that was impossible before WW1
certainly it would've been a welcome change to the Poles in the Habsburg Empire

>It took its legitimacy from tradition being the lawful rulers of the crown lands
This is actually a really good point. By dismantling the titles the Habsburgs would lose legitimacy as Feudal monarchs and it would just feel like if the USA had a king

maybe temporarily, but the ultimate goal would be to blow the Habsburg monarchy up, get independence and reunite with the rest of Poland

they could've divided the crownlands in smaller districts and give each district its own language. So even if a crownland was mixed, there could still be proper language borders whilst keeping the old feudal structure
impossible without Germany, Russia and Austria-Hungary killing each other
I think the last rebellion of Poles in Austria was 1848

>I think the last rebellion of Poles in Austria was 1848
It's not about rebellion. The Poles of the empire were very poor and were always thought of as a afterthought. If Galicia got autonomy it would be the 2nd most rebellious part of the empire (after Hungary of course)

>Because Poles would rather live together with other Poles in independent Poland.
Modern revisionism. Austro-Hungarian Poles were peak loyalist.

>everyone secretly wanted Franz dead. He was too liberal for everyone's liking
A lot of people agree on this.

Race is a social construct

Good thing we're talking about nationalities then.

t. Croat or Serbian

>Austro-Hungarian Poles were peak loyalist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_crisis

Only as long as they politically benefited from it but as I said, the ultimate goal was independence and it was pursued when it was only possible.

It's like saying that Basques are loyalists (to the Spanish king), because they aren't rebelling right now.

t. moor or spaniard

It's understandable after the great war shook up the empire. Beforehand I don't think they'd try to do anything. War turned everything upside down. Croatia was the most loyal of them all to the crown, yet even we were emancipated.

> The Poles of the empire were very poor

Also this, Galicia was always on the sidelines of Austro-Hungarian politics and economy, it was extremely underinvested and rural (which Polish nobles were partially to blame for, because they didn't want to change the status quo where they were big landowners and peasants had to work for free on their farms).

But it could lead to a revolution sooner or later (there was a big peasant uprising in 1846: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_slaughter).

Btw, most of Polish Americans came from Galicia.

what about Krakow, was it poor too, or only the rural area?

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_slaughter

It was relatively poor, because the capital of Galicia and the city that received most of investments was Lviv. You can still see the 19th century districts of Lviv looks much more "grandiose" than similar districts of Kraków (despite the ones in Kraków being better maintained).

Our national poet Słowacki concluded:

>Oh, Kraków, there's something wonderful about you, so I want to come back...back home, to Warsaw

Kraków was rather a small town and people were very conservative, so it could be called a big village actually (and it still is).

Unless the Austrians and Slavs massacre Hungarians then yes

Kraków had only 158,000 inhabitants in 1914, while Warsaw had 884,000

But I think Poles wouldn't mind it if all of Poland was part of Austro-Hungary. It's just being divided between three nations that was the worst, not the occupation itself and most of our pre-1914 politicians wanted to unite all Polish lands within one state (some of them wanted it to be Austria-Hungary, some of them - Russia, no one wanted Germany though) and only then to fight for independence or wide autonomy at least.

Now that I think about it A-H wouldn't be allowed to give autonomy to Galicia by Germany and Russia because it would bolster Polish nationalism in their countries

A small province within the Habsburg Empire wouldn't be a threat to either the German or Russian Empire. Not like it would have an army either, that would've most definitely remained under the command of the central authority at Vienna.

>Trentino and Trieste

Attached: 1563905020877.gif (330x166, 2.24M)

Intellectuals could travel from Russia to A-H and see how free people were there, they could then write pieces of literature stirring nationalist sentiment

Personally I wish all Polish lands had been united within Russia.

The Polish Kingdom was the most industrialized and the richest part of the Russian Empire and Poles played an important role in Russian politics and economy, unlike A-H or Germany where they were completely marginalized.

That was also the idea of the pro-Russian fraction among Polish politicians - the more Poles and Polish lands in Russia, the more influence Poles would have on the Petersburg government (that was already pretty strong, despite russification). Also Russia provided the best economic opportunities for Poles, because it was severely underdeveloped and Poles (also Polish Jews) had the capital Russia needed so badly. Poland could become the Catalonia of Russia, while in A-H it could be only an equal (and not prominent by any means) 'republic' within the federation, and in Germany it could be nothing but a rural land and the breadbasket for Berlin that would be germanized sooner or later.

wouldn't do shit, all rebellion attempts against Russia and Prussia were put down

it doesn't mean yet another rebellion, better prepared couldn't work

and anyway, the state of chaos in the country caused by protests and rebellions, even if quelled after some time, is not something desired in the long term

>let's genocide each other, brother!

Doesn't matter that rebellions would be put down. What matters is that the government would be hated and everyone would want to be free

Did Slovaks ever ask the Vienna government to merge their land with Czechia instead of Hungary?

Also, did the Austrian king ever react against the magyarization policy pursued by Budapest? Maybe Czechs tried to help you at least?

The crown land of Galicia was dominated by the Poles. In fact, there was an arrangement that the Poles would support the government in Vienna in exchange for autonomy. In the Greater Austria plan, the Poles would only have Western Galicia, they would lose Eastern Galicia (where a large Polish minority lived) including the capital Lvov, to the Ukrainians.

The main national demand of the Czechs was to turn the Bohemian lands (plus perhaps Slovakia) into one autonomous entity just like Hungary. They were very much against the separation of the German speaking parts, which is what was demanded by the Bohemian Germans in late A-H.

Polish insurgents had no hope of winning against either Prussia, Austria or Russia on their own, no chance. Simply too weak and too little organized to win against massive empires like that. that's why it was only possible after WW1 when the great powers had wrecked each other
don't really think empires care about being hated by minorities.

as it seems in the map the Poles would've gotten Lemberg as an exclave (rural Eastern Galicia besides Lemberg was Ukrainian, right?).
Also, giving Bohemia a status like Hungary would've divided the empire only further and made it even more dysfunctional. The point of the plan was to make it work again. The Ausgleich of 1867 was a massive mistake which enabled the Hungarians to veto decisions made by Vienna and greatly hindered the Habsburgs

>Did Slovaks ever ask the Vienna government to merge their land with Czechia instead of Hungary?
We didn't have any representation, so we couldn't ask even if we wanted to
>Also, did the Austrian king ever react against the magyarization policy pursued by Budapest?
They did, but the Hungarian part told them to mind their own part of their empire
>Maybe Czechs tried to help you at least?
They did, the Czechs were the biggest Slavic nationalists of the empire, but most of their focus was on Slovenia and Croatia
>don't really think empires care about being hated by minorities.
I don't really think you understand how A-H worked but ok
Disregard the map, it's just a meme map

>I don't really think you understand how A-H worked but ok
elaborate

Remember le Magyarization!
Remember the 6 millions Slovaks killed at Csernova!

>as it seems in the map the Poles would've gotten Lemberg as an exclave

It couldn't last forever, you know, exclaves always provoke conflicts, vide Freie Stadt Danzig.

>as it seems in the map the Poles would've gotten Lemberg as an exclave

It would have been an autonomous district, but part of Eastern Galicia.

>rural Eastern Galicia besides Lemberg was Ukrainian, right?
No, so it would have meant a pretty large loss nevertheless. The Poles were a minority, but they were in a socially dominant position (land owners, etc.). To add some context, there was an ongoing Polish-Ukrainian conflict in Galicia before and after WWI;

ww1.habsburger.net/en/chapters/compromise-vienna-polish-autonomy-galicia

>but most of their focus was on Slovenia and Croatia

why would they focus on Slavs that were unrelated to them than on their Slovak neighbors?

Btw, did Czechs ever consider Slovaks as part of the Czech nation?

Poles in Galicia had a special bond with the Ukrainians, the Czechs at this period had been put in position of the Slavic representatives, Slovaks very heavily influenced by Czechs, and if A-H wouldn't do anything to stop the unrest, Serbs would sperg out. Now you have at least a third of the empire in some sort of unrest

All these retards that went on and on about independence now live in Austria anyway, because they fucked up their countries.

It would have absolutely worked and the world would have been better for it.
Instead they got to spend half a century as soviet puppets.

I was talking about Russia and Germany
you said if Poles from Russia and Germany went to Austria and saw how good Poles had it there they'd create unrest in German/Russian occupied Poland. I said it didn't matter because all Polish uprisings against Russia and Prussia failed
true, sadly we lost WW1

Excuse me. My people never Pan-Slavism. My people never wanted to be part of Russia. Unlike the Sl*vs. Also my country remained a monarchy and we tried to restore the Habsburgs.

>Also, giving Bohemia a status like Hungary would've divided the empire only further and made it even more dysfunctional.

Perhaps, but that's what Czech nationalists wanted which is why they would have been pretty dissatisfied with Greater Austria. They regarded the German-speaking areas of Bohemia as a part of their country and didn't want to let them go. It's pretty similar to the dispute in interwar Czechoslovakia.

>Instead

It was 30 years after A-H's collapse and was directly unrelated to this event.

And you'd get even more Slavs in Austria if they all lived in Austria-Hungary and had A-H citizenship and the freedom of movement.

Those lands that are poor now, were also poor in A-H (Galicia, Bosnia, Vojvodina, Slovakia, partially Croatia) so these people would also migrate to the richer regions.

And those who were rich (Slovenes, Czechs) don't migrate to Austria even now.

anyway, why would Austrians want to deal with all these Slavs and Hungarians in one country

do you have a complex of a small, irrelevant state or what

>why would they focus on Slavs that were unrelated to them than on their Slovak neighbors?
Because Slovenes and Croats (partially) were in the Austrian part of the empire so contact with them was easier, they were also more developed
>Btw, did Czechs ever consider Slovaks as part of the Czech nation?
Yes

>Slavs destroy the only power that kept Russians out of Central Europe
>Russia suddenly is on central Europe
Oh wow what a surprise. Please somebody post the Polish cycle picture.

Not him, but apart from Galician Jews we didn't actually get many migrants from the poor parts of AH. Mostly Czechs, some Slovenes. Few Poles, Ukrainians, Croats/Serbs (those came later).

>so contact with them was easier,

I don't think there were heavily guarded borders between the Austrian and Hungarian parts of the empire and I'm pretty sure an average Czech visited Pressburg more often than Laibach.

>Yes

so if they did then I can't understand why they didn't care about what happened to the Czech people in the Hungarian part.

Russia would care because Poland was very developed and Germany wouldn't want the other powers to think that they treat minorities badly

I don’t blame you, it’s more of a historical joke.

>Slavs destroy the only power that kept Russians out of Central Europe

lmao, Austria lost all battles to Russia it fought alone, only help from the German side stopped Brusilov, who would have made it into Vienna easily otherwise.

Russia had crushed Congress Poland (the last remnant of independent Poland) and integrated it into their empire directly, and I doubt nationalist Germany gave a shit about what other (rival) powers thought of it. Obviously those are bad things but I really don't think either the German or Russian Empire cared much about how the Poles within their territory felt.

There were no Slaves in Pozsony until Czechs massacred the population and they started shipping Slovaks on the city.

Because Czechs just like other Slaves are parasites. They could only suck Franz Ferdinand's dick and beg him to give them money and power.

Pretty much all Viennese are descendants of these people. So why wouldn’t we want to deal with them?

>I don't think there were heavily guarded borders between the Austrian and Hungarian parts of the empire and I'm pretty sure an average Czech visited Pressburg more often than Laibach.
It's not about borders, it's about administration, laws and language
>so if they did then I can't understand why they didn't care about what happened to the Czech people in the Hungarian part.
They cared, but the minorities in Hungary were uneducated and rural so they didn't care about the stuff that Czechs and Croats cared about, and so Czechs thought we were doing fine

>we didn't actually get many migrants from the poor parts of AH.

Because those were different times, people were less mobile, but as transport developed, such migrations would have been more and more common, especially within one country

>They could only suck Franz Ferdinand's dick and beg him to give them money and power.

That's exactly what Hungarians did in 1867

Habsburg Empire exists: no Russians in the vicinity
Habsburg Empire doesn't exist: здpaвcтвyйтe тoвapищи!

It costs money and blood to oppress people

>That's exactly what Hungarians did in 1867
Umm sweetie. Austrians came begging to us after they lost to Prussia. Maybe we would have helped the Czechs, if they don't betray us in 48.

>and so Czechs thought we were doing fine

hard to believe, I read a lot of Polish books from the 19th century and Poles often mentioned Slovaks as an example of a nation that is about to die out due to magyarization and Poles should be careful not to share the same fate and oppose germanization/russification fiercely

Nice digits

not if you crush them for good
when was the last time Poles rebelled? against Prussia it was 1848 I think, against Russia maybe 1860 or something. They had no hope of independence unless something like WW1 happened, which is why they stopped trying in the decades before WW1.

yeah, I'm lucky today:

gonna play Eurojackpot, brb

no
slavs eat shit
go lick russian ass

>They had no hope of independence

As I said - the plan after 1864 (another lost uprising) was to increase the influence of Poles and Poland within the Russian Empire with the ultimate goal to acquire a higher degree of autonomy and then independence.

Poles hoped they could basically take over Russia politically and economically and use it for the purpose of unification of Polish lands. I can't say if it was a reasonable and viable idea but still it was better than yet another lost uprising.

Easily, most we're learning German either way and if infastructure improved all of the youth would migrate to Austria and be assimilated/feel part of the country.

Imagine thinking you're part of a specific ethnicy that looks and behaves exactly like their neighboring ethnicy.

>so many European nations romanticize Austria-Hungary

>Poles are the only ones who romanticize Germany and uncle Willy

despite germanization, you can't deny life in the German Empire between 1871-1914 was the best thing that could have happened to a European

Attached: Kaiser_Wilhelm_II_of_Germany_-_1902.jpg (2431x3508, 779K)

How do you feel about the cancerous anti-germanic SEETHE on /his/? I find it quite unbearable but then I realise its mostly tranny leftists, t*nkies and muttaboos

People on /his/ hate Germany because with WW1 and WW2 they basically stopped history

Its a good thing that you posted it here instead. If you posted it on /his/ you would get 200+ replies asking you why do you want an anti white safespace.

Attached: 1564182662399.png (775x317, 12K)

>Stopped history
Oh wow good thing I don't visit that gay board

I think its more to do with how originally, most people with an interest in history on Jow Forums at least were interested in Germany in both WW1 and WW2, holding ideas and opinions not accepted in the mainstream (eg. effects of German strategic/tactical victories and other possibilities).
However, when people see this they feel the need to be as contrarian as possible, and whine about Germany and shit on everything Germanic. Its probably due to the influx of normalfags onto Jow Forums, finding themselves on places like /his/. The bomber harris memes make me cringe as a brit especially.