Free will is an illusion

yes we can

Scientifically, that can't realistically or practically be proven beyond plausible doubt one way or the other. And the philosophical argument is just as endless and pointless and turning in circles, so what's the point?

>instincts
sure. they're just a bias, not a hard rule.

>desire
this depends on your definition of desire.

your point is irrelevant anyway. all your actions could be completely random and defy your instincts, and that would not indicate free will.

we do know that fucking about with people's brains will cause then to behave differently in a myriad of reproducible ways. our brains are nothing but machines.

If that's true then why did you type out "yes we can" instead of literally an infinite other possible responses? Why didn't you type out "banana televsion happy cat"?

I stopped giving a fuck years and years ago. I use heroin everyday. Fuck other people opinions. I'm feeling great before i die. I'm not kidding btw, I snort dope EVERYDAY

It's easier to prove determinism than free will. And both are exclusive to each other. What does that tell you?

You will regret it

Any example?

I make choices of my own free will every single day. Every moment even.

see the other americans post
>"all your actions could be completely random and defy your instincts, and that would not indicate free will."

i put "yes we can" because it was my choice

>I make choices of my own free will every single day. Every moment even.
No you fucking don't. The greatest illusion is the illusion of choice.

Yes.
Example:
I have a moderate desire to jack off. Should I do it or no? I can say yes or no.
I have an extreme desire to jack off. Should I do it or no? I can say yes or no even if I said no to the previous one.

nonsense

Then what is consciousness?

you are completely ignoring the main argument here against free will, which is that our brains are machines. your self is an illusion. what physical or magical entity exists that is controlling your actions? it's all just stimulus and response.

>I can say yes or no
and yet in 1 million repetitions of this moment, you would only ever make the same choice.

well now that's the fucking question, isn't it?

>easier to prove
Based on what?

To prove determinism, you would need to prove there exists a physical model that can be replicated and described exactly to predict with perfect precision the exact actions, thoughts and desires of a human being for any given initial conditions. Proving that is practically impossible.

To doubters- If free will existed, then why do you wipe your ass on autopilot, among other things

>it's all just stimulus and response.
i can choose the response.

>and yet in 1 million repetitions of this moment, you would only ever make the same choice.
in another moment with the same conditions i can make a different choice

What is involuntary response
What is electricity
What are hormones

Yet where are still here...

You very likely used your brain to "decide" to not masturbate. And your brain has been shaped by billions of years of evolution, if it hadn't been shaped they way it was, you would have "choose" a different thing.

Also, why did you decided to not masturbate?

Think about it, if you got shot in the head and survived, but ended up a retard a few steps above a vegetal, would you still be able to make your choices like you do today, or would the damage impair it?

Even if determinism is the truth, there’s no way of exactly knowing your future so you live as if you have free will, therefore this centuries long debate is really a non issue

fact

>non issue
Not when genetics becomes a talking point

to prove free will, you need to prove that there is something metaphysical (like a soul) that isn't bound by the predictable laws of physics. Free will contravenes the known laws of physics

Are you an, there I say it, gaytheist?

>I believe I have free will because this book tells me I do.
>How do I know this book is right? Well, the book itself told me it's right!

Why do you think so?

>Well, the book itself told me it's right!
The book didn't tell you that, the people who wrote the book told you that. Who do you think told the people who wrote the book?

It's baffling to me that you retards believe that all of natural history lead up to this point and determined that you must argue this point on Jow Forums right now, and that you must respond to my post

faggot

There's no such thing as random chance, either. Everything that takes place is preceded by past events leading up to any given occurrence.

Then explain RNG

I don't think you understood the post you are replying to

i never got the point of the debate. for all intents and purposes things are predetermined. whether it's by a series of choices or destiny things will always happen the way that they happen. it's like when something weird happens and someone says "what are the chances of that happening?". the chances are 100%, because it happened. no matter how we wound up here, we were going to wind up here, because we wound up here

That's a bad example. Computer RNG are actually deterministic and produce a reproducible set of numbers that approximate a random distribution.

>actual retard can't even comprehend events that are yet to happen

Explain? Is there a way to exploit this (in vidya preferably)?

It's perfectly well defined to talk about say the chances of flipping heads three times in a row. You could say in theory that there is only one sequence that could possibly happen given all the initial conditions, but we don't know all the initial conditions.

If there is a way to exploit it, the programmer wasn't very good. Read about "pseudorandom number generator" if your interested. In practice all RNG in computer programs are pseudo, even in the sciences.

Does that change anything? It shouldn't.

coin flipping is literally always a 100% chance though

but when they do eventually happen, they'll happen the way they happen. the future is set in stone regardless of our influence, even if we don't know what the future is. when we arrive at that point, that future will be the only possible outcome

Also RNG nowadays uses entropy to scramble the odds, things like your keyboard input, mouse movement, etc..

Have you never done RNG abuse in Pokémon? Shit is so cash.

>making a very simple system more complex with added bullshit
That's just asking for more exploits

It's a necessary evil. It's how /dev/urandom on Linux works btw

Brainlet here.
I thought quantum mechanics disproves determinism.
Or am I confused?

You're correct that as far as we know there is unavoidable randomness in physics, but I fail to see how that saves the idea of free will

how does randomness disprove determinism?

No, uncertainty and probabilistic distributions does not necessarily imply free will.

Look up pilot waves.

If determinism is the idea that given all possible information about a system you can predict exactly the final state, then yes quantum mechanics raises problems for that

The "I too watched the first season of True Detective" starter pack for basic bitches, part V.

Attached: 1540515788747.gif (279x278, 372K)

This world is an illusion, exile

no one did, jesus lived centuries before the bibles was written

Where is the "real world" then, and what guarantees that isn't an illusion too?

But the illusion is still perceived and thus real , since you sensed and interpreted similarly to how you would a 'real' experience.

Nowhere and nothing

Attached: CB908424-0C8B-4DB7-8995-70FC43A312B4.png (800x909, 837K)

Doesn't QM just state that it's impossible to know all information about a system? So it doesn't disprove determinism because the determinism argument pre-supposes we know everything about a system.

determinism has nothing to do with "prediction" that's subjective as fuck

Yup

Schizophrenia is a superpower.

define determinism

>no one did
Something cannot exist without a cause, unless you believe these men woke up and wrote in random letters in Aramaic and came up with the bible.

Well it kinda is

Attached: 1489617424616.png (519x657, 90K)

You retards are all wrong

No it's deeper than that. People used to try to consider things called 'hidden variable theories' where we can't know all the information about a system but that information still exists even if we can't know it and determines the system.

In the 60s a physicist named John Bell came up with a proof that the correlations in quantum mechanics were too strong for the hidden variable idea to possibly be true

We are all pawns controlled by something greater.

>You retards are all wrong

Attached: EarlGrey.jpg (1435x1079, 266K)

elaborate

Exactly

>Something cannot exist without a cause, unless you believe these men woke up and wrote in random letters in Aramaic and came up with the bible.
there's a huge leap between "jesus didn't tell them" and "these men just woke up and wrote it lol"
the point of the bible is that it is the teachings of jesus christ
but the bible was written centuries after he had died
so either you can claim he and/or the holy spirit told them to write the bible(for which you have no proof) or you can claim that someone eventually wrote down an approximation of the teachings of christ centuries later(not at the orders of christ), which means it was regular humans who told other regular humans to write the book which attacks your central point

people with schizophrenia have longer synapses in their brain so they can find connections between ideas easier, but that has the negative side effect to make them paranoid and delusional much more easier

>Mark Twain was born shortly after an appearance of Halley's Comet, and he predicted that he would "go out with it" as well; he died the day after the comet returned.

do you believe in fate?

Attached: 1537779018711.jpg (431x600, 65K)

actually the increased paranoia comes from them having larger amygdalas my apologies

Maybe if you are born a macaco...

depends on what you mean by fate
that the universe has some grand plan for you? no
that the universe is pre-determined by laws and mathematic constants? yes

theres hardly any difference kid

So many moving parts in this universe. Some of them are bound to align every now and then. It's nothing special.

You have a very small brain, Sven. Like smaller than a walnut. The rules and laws of the universe are just as easily broken given the right set of variables. And once those truths are made into untruths, then what?
Scientific truth is not an endgame but a process.

Free Will is an illusion.

Consider the mind in love. You have absolutely no freedom to choose to fall out of love with someone right there and then, the second you have decided to, soon after you have fallen in love with them. (Well, certainly not soon after.) If that's not proof you have no free will, I don't know what is.

Religion is a joke.

you are the dumbest person I have ever seen
how many universal laws have you seen be broken?
>And once those truths are made into untruths, then what?
then they weren't true to begin with
>Scientific truth is not an endgame but a process.
scientific truth is an absolute, the only 'process' is getting to it. believing the universe revolves around the earth because a scientist told you so doesn't make it a scientific truth

Attached: 1560454550946.jpg (506x877, 139K)

The only thing we have is awareness
We are spectators of our actions

Brainlet take

weak willed faggot

Don't care.

You can though. It's just difficult.
You can't claim free will to be an illusion based on your crippling addiction to alcohol.