Segwit = scam

Interesting video for you, as I'm not a computer scientists so cannot explain it as well as someone like this. I just wanted to start the discussion
youtube.com/watch?v=VoFb3mcxluY

Also non mining nodes don't matter

so the transaction verification being separate from the transaction presents a problem how?

if you think of them as two separate files that are only valid together but the file can actually be parsed (just not accepted valid) without the signature file / certificate it should be amply evident it works just fine. if you alter / corrupt the file but can't produce it's proper signature you are fucked if you misplace the signature you are fucked.

There's a 0 chance that these blocks will actually matter as this would only be effective if they processed segwit blocks and 51% of the network was not running segwit (it is)

ya know OP is right
> m-muh 128 gorillion blocks, but we don't need transactions, don't worry about it goyim

sometimes censorship is good when complete liar faggots like OP decide to post

nigga a miner can mine any block if it's invisible to everyone else. they would just mine an orphaned chain nobody cares about. anyone that doesn't support their thieving would quickly update their client. now they have wasted tremendous hashrate time and money for nothing.

Nah, OP isn't right. The "anyone-can-spend" argument has been part of the bitcoin protocol since it's inception. Only non-segwit nodes would allow this type of transaction, the rest of the network would read these blocks as invalid and reject them.

This was more of a security threat prior to segwit than it is with segwit.

Here's a good article that explains this.

seebitcoin.com/2017/02/segwit-facts-not-anyone-can-spend-so-stop-saying-they-can/

The mining cartel can turn off segwit with the flip of a switch... and their bounty is growing with every transaction. I'd say the only parties who matter here are the mining cartel and the economic majority (of which the mining cartel is a part).

>But desu I haven't looked whether other whales (100000+ btc) have.
blockchain.com/btc/tx/92785a57f6e9e9eb9d37a00e6e8be7f888376f65fa2b8f868db261cbf6cca7b0
40k bitcoin in a segwit address for nearly 9 months still there...

Forking the code back from segwit would effectively strange a large number of coins and transactions and require them to have a higher hashrate to process the same number of transactions.

It would not be in their best interest.

miners don't have that much power
look what happened to S2X

I would wager (but I'm going to research this at some point) that the real economic majority of whales won't ever touch segwit. First your billions were protected by the protocol (bitcoin), and now it's protected by "we will never spend these spend to anyone outputs, pinky promise!" They should be waiting this one out.

there's not a single report of what you're worried about so it's most likely FUD

They cannot spend them to "anyone outputs".

They are viewed as that by non-segwit nodes for compatibility purposes. Non-segwit mining nodes that attempt to mine a segwit block and send it to themselves will submit an invalid block and it will be rejected.

"anyone outputs" have been a part of bitcoin since it's creation. These were not introduced by segwit.

It only takes 51% of the miners to revert to the basic bitcoin protocol plus the support of the economic majority. I'm not fudding. It's simply a possibility. It's not technically difficult.
The important group here is big whales who got billions to lose. What do they want? I've seen some whales on record stating that they hate the uncertainty that core fuckery such as segwit brings to the protocol. It's a complex game.

the hashing majority can do that in any coin
the money sink in doing it and making your ASICs worthless is why they don't do it
it has been part of bitcoin's game theory since day 1 and it has never happened because it doesn't make any sense
how would you sell x amount of bitcoin when the chain isn't valid? no one would buy
bitcoin has the biggest investment into mining the most hashing this isn't going to happen

post some whales who don't like core that aren't shilling their shitty alt

No it doesn't. Soft forks are non-reversible. To undo segwit, the network would literally have to hardfork. Otherwise the previous blockchain would become invalid and all future transactions would be invalid as a result. All miners on this non-hardforked chain would submit purely invalid nodes and get no block reward. They would waste time and energy for literally nothing.

Cant be arsed to dig up the exact quote but this guy:
trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/
is a legit bitcoin whale (250k btc or so?) in a group of other early adoptors and they also all run thebitcoin.foundation/
a pre-core version of the protocol.

To miners reverting to the original protocol it would simply look like a blockchain with a bunch of spend to anyone outputs, but still a legit blockchain...

Yeah, technically you are right. However, a fork would still be required to get there. And funds sent to and sitting in segwit addresses would no longer be accessible. Not to mention transaction fees would go up and blocks would become more full.

This isn't really something anyone will benefit from. It would be an optional network downgrade, the only reason people would choose to do this would be if they were opting to be greedy. The new hardforked chain without segwit would suffer similar congestion and fee issues as pre-segwit bitcoin did. I can't see this type of chain having near the value or support as the non-hardforked chain. I mean, as we can see... Hardforked chains are all less valuable than the BTC chain already anyways.

Either way though, loosening the consensus protocol rules of the chain will require a hardfork, unlike the softfork that tightened the rules and resulted in segwit.

They would be accessible to the miners, who can spend to themselves (and share with partners in crime). If there is enough loot, there is incentive. The chest of loot will only grow.
The whole point of bitcoin is use greed to secure a value network. All parties involved are suposed to be greedy :)

I also dont believe segwit was ever really intended as a scaling solution. It's obviously there to allow blockstream's off chain solution to work. It doesn't even double the capacity of the network (so basically it's effect wrt scaling is negligible).

BCH will win eventually.

The prices in autumn 2018 doesn't matter one bit in the grand scheme of things.

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are you a flat earth believer too OP?

BCH is the best contender for #1. I hope this fork shit doesn't ruin it

I don't think it will matter in the long run. To be honest I kind of hope the nChain camp wins just because of the new ABC opcode that can read data from outside the bitcoin system itself. Sounds like something that changes bitcoin too much. Besides, nChain's goal of starting to lock down how the core system works so devs can start developing seriously on top of it isn't such a bad though. All that was needed from BTC was bigger blocks really and Satoshi himself always intended for new opcodes to be added. Doesn't change the core system.

Regardless who wins BCH will live on. Still scales much better than BTC and has a bunch of upgrades like the difficulty adjustment.

Attached: Bitcoin Wars The Fork Awakens (A New Hope).jpg (1860x3984, 781K)