Which one do you prefer? Simplified or traditional Chinese?

cia demonstration is a shit hole
this is a results of democracy

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I think they took a lot of reference from Japanese kanji when making simplified Chinese characters

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Yeah I figured a Mongolian scarf knitting forum is a shit place to learn anything but I'm hoping for something informative.

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Only autistic gate keeping retards think traditional is good.

It's really only people who think characters have some mystical value other than just being words. Its like saying we should make the english alphabet more complex for no functional reason.

1. they look ugly as sin
2 . the fact the Taiwanese and the HKers use the traditional ones perfectly means there was no point of throwing them into a garbage can in the mainland

Traditional would only be worth writing
for tattoos. and If google translate serves right then words like 鬱悶 definitely live up to their (maybe?) meaning.

1. See my point about people who shill traditional being east asian weebs who think its mystical and aesthetic rather than a means of writing.

2. That would be true if simplified didn't exist. But it does and it is objectively quicker

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Clearly traditional Chinese looks cooler

STFU JUST COME TO TERMS WITH *FFICIENCY ALREADY

>Love without heart

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Simplifying the characters arbitrarily locks out legibility of historical texts, and crosslingual legibility when different languages adopt different simplifications. This isn't an alphabet. These simplifications don't make learning times noticeably faster in a way that's significant to a native population either.

indeed

>to feel becomes to memorize in japanese

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Should gate be 门 instead of 关?

Why yes, I write my characters in Vietnamese. Is there something wrong?

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One only needs to look at korean to see how dogshit any pro-trad argument is. The functional gains are well worth it.

How often does a person read historical documents in their day to day life? Even english 300 years ago is tough for modern people to decipher.

Yes

Simplified, only incels care about traditional

Lol, fyi 卫 is derived not from japanese kanji but actual japanese katakana.

門/门 is door, looks pretty much like it too

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I know. I was confused because they put 关 instead of 门. Maybe the guy who made the chart got confused when he saw 关门。

>How often does a person read historical documents in their day to day life? Even english 300 years ago is tough for modern people to decipher.
Robinson Crusoe isn't a mystically cryptic text at all.
Historical text can mean anything from legal documents, old books, or your great grandmother's handwriting.
Arguing in favour of an alphabet is an entirely different discussion from arguing for an arbitrarily simplified version of the same logographic system with a couple of lines missing.

Traditional looks better than Simplified although Simplified also looks good.

In my opinion the Hanzi used in Japanese is the most aestethically pleasing, whenever I try to read Chinese by looking at the characters I often find Hanzi that are not used in Japanese which look weird because of the arrangement of their radicals which look nothing like what you would find in Japanese Kanji although for some reason those characters appear in Kanji dictionaries but there aren't any words that use them E.G 卡, 你, 啊. Those Chinese characters that don't appear in Japanese have their charm but to me the radical placement seems odd

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In the center of 恋 for japanese Shinjitai, the two vertical lines are not parallel unlike in simplified chinese.
残 for Shinjitai has 4 lines in total that the long hook stroke in the right side passes through, not 3.

Unless you are living in Taiwan, or maaaybe HK (which will be simplified soon enough) there is no reason for learning trad. Its been in place for over 60 years in mainland and there is negligible advantage to spending the time to learn both.

Taiwan only didn't adopt them because they were butthurt they lost the civil war. Its literally the Quebec language laws of China. A bunch of loser seperatists trying to keep their dead language alive.

ekhm ekhm
the People's Republic of China is the only legal Chinese state

Im also a big believer that the PRC should have taken the full measure and gone straight for a korean-esque alphabet instead of coping with a symbol based language foreverially.

Not a mistake though, 關/关 means Gate as noun

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Yeah Koreans sure love their alphabet.
They love it so much that any technical text still uses hanja between brackets because otherwise the ambiguity makes the document unreadable.

Does this mean most koreans can't read technical documents?

nuke chinese

The ones that have to read them soon learn the hanja relevant to their field.
Or just use the English words.

What a good idea an alphabet was.

Hangul was designed from the outset as a mixed writing system to include chinese.

A flaw in objective that could have been designed around.

why so mad on ideogram?

But that's not really possible, way too many homonym/homograph for it to work.

A linguist once wrote a story using one word and BTFO the entire romantisation movement at that time.

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The chinese writing system acts a brake on business, science, education and research but they cant abandon it for political reasons.

The fundamental nature of a character based language is incompatible with the modern world. Take a moment to think about the shear amount of effort that has been put into fonts, input methods, generating new characters for new concepts/chemicals and then the effort needed to look up and memorize those new characters when learning.

Chinese should just use pinyin for everything.
>Wahh too many homophones
Bullshit. Think about it for two seconds (hard for Asians I know) and you'll realize it's bullshit. Spoken Chinese doesn't have characters and works fine; no natural language could ever work the way pro-character autists think Chinese does.

The poem could be misinterpreted as objection to the Romanization of Chinese. However, the 20th-century author Yuen Ren Chao was a major supporter for Romanization. He used this poem as an example to object the use of Classical Chinese that is hardly used in daily life.[4][5]

>what is tone

Pinyin includes tones Takahiro

oh alphabet with pinyin
sure then

This.

Expanding pinying to include 1-2 alternate spellings per sound and keeping the tone indicators would annihilate basically any homophone worries.

and they try to say the chinese aren't insects

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鬪 vs 鬥 vs 闘 vs 斗

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为了论证“拼音”的必要和可能,赵元任先生不仅从国家、民族经济以及文化发展等,这些文字以外的方面寻找依据,而且在文字的内部,包括古文和现代口语、书写的角度讲述文字改革的可行性和重要性,而《施氏食狮史》这段颇有些“极端”的“古文”,就是他在这样的背景下“硬造”出来的。

--

对此,他在1959年向我国的台湾大学师生们发表关于《语言问题》的演讲时,就曾说道:“在有限的某种用文字的场合(包括像‘施’文这样的‘古文’场合——笔者注)里头,是非用汉字不可。比方你要是研究文字学本身呐,当然不能不写你所研究的文字。可是在多数……文字用处的场合,比方说是自然科学啊、工啊、农啊、商啊、军事啊,这些用处上呐,我觉得现在就可以用国语罗马字拼音文字。”(见1980年6月商务印书馆《语言问题》第150-151页)

>The chinese writing system acts a brake on business, science, education and research but they cant abandon it for political reasons.
Literally second world power, with Japan in the third place.

And they would be doing better without it.

>source: my ass

>English speaking countries throwing shit at a writting system that requieres you to memorize only around 200 radicals after which you can see characters like 鐽 just once and remember them forever, meanwhile their language requieres you to learn the pronunciation of every word and the way in which they are written separately because the latin script isn't an accurate way of writting the language.

Also chinese characters might be the reason for which East Asia has the highest iq of all, after having learned around 1000 Kanji in 5 months using rote memorization I felt smarter, my ability to remember and memorize things felt better, my reading comprehension went up and I started getting better grades at university, classes started to seem easier, etc.

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How to id weeb bait

T. Chink diaspora that cannot into hanzi.

>漢字很難
>漢字壞

T. non-natively fluent shit skin

are you natively fluent?

Yes

I prefer my Chinese with ear protection

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free tibet, free east turkestan

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Imagine memorizing those scribbles.

right char is better i think

Just looked up what radicals mean, now Chinese sounds easier.
Thank you Suarez.

It can also mean "to feel" in Japanese, as in 恐怖を覚える "to feel fear" or 興奮を覚える "to feel arousal."
The original meaning of the verb おぼえる, which was later mapped to the kanji 覚, was a spontaneous or passive conjugation of the verb おもふ meaning "to think" or "to feel."
That is, "to have something spontaneously pass through your mind."
And it is also used with the meaning "to feel" or "to sense" in Chinese compounds, such as 感覚 "sensation" or 視覚 "sense of sight."
It was only later that 覚える came to also mean "to remember" from the sense of "to have something appear in your mind spontaneously."

Radicals don't really make Chinese writing much easier

English being retarded doesn't excuse using an outdated and computationally extremely redundant writing system.

Finnish has absurdly long letters though. Compared to that, sino-vocabulary based languages are extremely convenient hands down.

*long words

The long words mean the sentences have less words, so the overall effect is wrong (I.E From our house = talostamme.). Finnish is actually one of the best languages as it is almost entirely phonetic and internally consistent.

I have nothing against Chinese or Japanese. Their writing system is just redundant. There's a reason why Hangul (which is an alphabetical writing system) was invented. It's a waste to express the written word in traffic signs.

based american japanese explainer

>The long words mean the sentences have less words
And the logograms mean the sentences have less characters.

> There's a reason why Hangul (which is an alphabetical writing system) was invented.
Because a king thought that it was the reason his country was illiterate, something that was ridiculous. Hangul took centuries to gain traction, and only did for political reasons. To this day they still have to use hanja in technical texts because an alphabet is ill-suited to East Asian languages.

>Because a king thought that it was the reason his country was illiterate, something that was ridiculous
It isn't ridiculous, although with modern education systems we can easily teach logographic/syllabic languages. Back in those days it did help though as did adopting simplified Chinese characters in China. Again, using what essentially amount to highly detailed traffic signs as your writing system isn't efficient.

Simplified, mainly because I'm non native speaker.
Thou I can understand why native speaker would appreciate the poetic beauty of trad characters.

It was utterly ridiculous, Korea was illiterate because it was a goddamn feudal society. Do you think Europe in the middle ages fared much better despite using alphabets?
Japan had a ridiculous rate of literacy for a feudal society in the Tokugawa Shogunate despite using logographic writing.

Japanese characters are better than Chinese ones, fight me!

Simplified.

Is this thread a anti mainlander thread? Fuck off.

Just because one variable is more significant it does not mean that other variables do not exist. Hangul helped, as did simplifying the Chinese characters.

>Finnish is actually one of the best languages
That is your subjective opinion.
>it is almost entirely phonetic and internally consistent
Maybe. Nonetheless, it is far less consistent and less efficient compared to east asian languages that tend to be monosyllabic. I have seen a post about Finnish programmer explaining why his language is so difficult to implement machine learning due to its grammatical rules for compound vocabulary (or something else grammar related, idk).

>There's a reason why Hangul (which is an alphabetical writing system) was invented
The reason Hangeul is so successful is because it fits our language very well. Even then, it is impossible to fully
detach our language from chinese characters To think an equal phonetic writing system can replace plainly Chinese or Japanese is plainly foolish.

You have to prove that's a variable to begin with. There's no existing correlation. China and Japan had literacy rates that put medieval Europe to shame.

I think you're confusing something here. I am not talking about the grammar of the languages, I am talking about their writing systems. Trying to claim that the "East Asian" writing system is more efficient than the Latin alphabet is ludicrous: it is strictly computationally false. Go ask any computer scientist or mathematician.

>rying to claim that the "East Asian" writing system is more efficient than the Latin alphabet is ludicrous: it is strictly computationally false.
By which metric? Using logographic writing allows for texts to be more concise and have less characters.
Scripts are just modulations of meaning, so you can analyze them using Shannon information theory.

A single character in Chinese script (a message) has much more meaning codified on it, so you need less of them to convey meaning. This, however, means that the pool of characters (possible messages) are bigger, and occupy more bits.

Is this a problem? Not at all, Unicode uses 4 bytes for character encoding, that means that you have an available pool of 2147483648 possible characters. In all the history of classic Chinese there are a maximum of 40000 characters.

There's literally no computational problem involved with the Chinese script.

I might be not that accurate with the byte length of Unicode now that I think about it. In any case, if they have enough space to add fucking useless emojis it doesn't seem they have any problem handling Chinese.

>A single character in Chinese script (a message) has much more meaning codified on it
There you go. Translating meaning to characters is more inefficient than using characters for meaning. The maximum pool of characters is quite irrelevant.

Spainanon already delivered the point I wanted to make and even more detailed. I’m just going to post this pic. Imagine how all these characters for each can be reduced to one or two in a different writing system.

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How long does it take people to write in traditional? Actually insane

>Translating meaning to characters is more inefficient than using characters for meaning.
It literally isn't, I just told you it's the reverse. Mapping meaning to characters means your texts will be more concise, and you'll read them faster.

What is faster to read to you? Two thousand three hundred seventy five or 2375? Our brain deals with symbols much faster than with words.

The only issue that this has is what I already said, that the number of possible messages increases to a ridiculous number, however our modern storage capacity is even more ridiculous so we'll never have any problem because of that.

The difference of course being that if you were presented with a symbolic sign that you did not know you were stuck. Where as I could construct the meaning from the alphabet.

>Where as I could construct the meaning from the alphabet.
Could you explain this? I can’t see picture an example.

>Where as I could construct the meaning from the alphabet.
Could you explain this? I can’t picture an example.

He probably means pronounciation specifically, but what it leads too is something that Chinese is missing dearly.

When a student/person/etc encounters a new word, both languages can use context to decipher the definition. However, the english speaker can already pronounce it without refer to any other material, whereas the chinese speaker will have to look it up or ask someone.

This really struck me growing up when i was learning english, how broken chinese is for learning. And then once you start reading recently invented terms in chinese it just compounds the problem, since in english if you can say the word you will generally have a good idea how to write the word whereas chinese I can think of words (mainly newer words) where I know how to say it and use it in a sentence but I'm not sure how to write it. Especially those learned in conversation.

but you can also derive the meaning from the logographs. If you know the basic elements you can easily guess what kind of word you're dealing with. E.g. something with 艸 or 木 is probably plant/tree related and something with 鳥 is most likely a kind of bird.

Simplified

>i-it looks better
fuck off, it's a language faggots, also traditional chinese countries are americanized shitholes so in that case I prefer simplified

Yeah, and the simplified country is a commie dystopia. Much better.