Why is anarcho-capitalism bad?

fpbp

is this bait?

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>abolishing the state
Never going to happen lol

>thinking you are not already in an an-cap world

Name 1 banker serving time in prison. You won't find any, the phajeet fall guy does the time and his family get paid.

anarcho-capitalism was already tried. something like a state inevitably forms, and if there are many equal in size they fight for territory until one wins. you can either be in denial and get overrun by a marauding gang or accept the a more vague, pervasive but relatively secular gang that is the state, which has mechanisms for growth and containment

>HURR DURR MUH CAPITALIZM
The only people I ever see complain about "capitalism" are fucking losers who would be dead under any other system.
:)

It's happening all the time, in every voluntary interaction.

There's no such thing as anarchism. If you dissolve the big government, all that will happen is a different form of government will take over.

The only reasonable excuse for removing the state is to create a better one. Anarcho anything is fucking retarded because a state like structure always forms. Its true across the entirety of humanity. You will be living in small communities until a bunch of communities band together and annihilate and absorb your small one creating a brand new state.

Which is not to forget outside forces such as other nations that would quickly move in and knock over whatever was made. Its the biggest sticking point in any arguments that can be made for it. It only works on the small scale and only in a bubble. Whatever company ended up being the strongest on the block would form a new state or it would be conquered by a foreign nation.

>it's 1900, making a heavier-than-air aircraft has been tried before and never worked
>we should just accept horse carriages, which is a tried and therefore the only possible mechanism of transportation

what? I asked you because the system that we have now is some majorly fucked abomination that was raped to death by regulation, taxation, tariffs, welfare, and pretty much every totalitarian evil you can imagine. The only awesome part about it is how well it works given how little freedom is left.

But user my community and private security company will be richer and therefore stronger than any government thanks to the enormous productivity of a completely free market.

I want to type out an argument but I'm so tired. Just know that you're wrong, okay?

tinkering with and object made out of and with things you can hold in your hand and use tools is way different ballgame than regulating the behavior of millions, if not billions of people

Sauce?

With the introduction of defentralized smart contracts and currency it is humanity's future, whether anyone likes it or not. Most are too dumb to see 3 steps ahead tho

The natural state of human societies is anarcho capitalism, but it does not last very long rofl

>baselessly assuming it will be your community instead of the neighboring one or one of the other thousands in your country
narcissist

no u

bitcoin is anarcho-capitalism
retarded kids think anarchy is about burning garbage cans, drawing A graffitis, rioting, being edgy and crazy, but there's no inherent violence in the concept of anarcho-capitalism. bitcoin is the fruit of the cypherpunk movement, anarchists who believe the way to removing the state is by building defensive technology rather than attacking current power structures. once you build networks where anonymity can't be unmasked, speech can't be censored, money can't be blocked and programs can't be stopped, you've removed the threat of violence that is prerequisite to the existence of any government

>narcissistic projection
why is it that narcissists flock to meme ideologies

there's economic pressure that can freely supplant violence with same effect

Is that why it doesn't work? Isn't even sufficient for the trading volume of a medium-sized grocery store. So much in-fighting that people refuse any proposals to increase block size, speed, etc.. all because of "muh Satoshi's vision"

I can't help but think that a true product of capitalism would be more efficient and have less idol worship and groupthink.

>my community and private security company will be richer and therefore stronger than any government thanks to the enormous productivity of a completely free market.
There is a limit to productivity and you are venturing into fantasy land again.

If you remove the government the market is not completely free. That is stupid to think so. It becomes whoever has the most firepower decides for your given area. It would be corporate warlords fighting and killing each other and people.

Comcast suddenly has no restrictions? Great they hire mercs and shoot anyone using a different cable company in their territories and make their service worse. Chinese and Russians decide to invade and kill large swathes of the country that will not unite and have zero unified response. A PMC which offers protection services for some customers sees another group trying offer theirs and kills them all and threatens their customers if they talk to any other PMCs they are going to die.

You're saying human interactions are different from technology in that they're immune from progress?

No capitalist in existence would claim that we've never tried "real" capitalism. Capitalists acknowledge the flaws of capitalism and work to resolve them, unlike socialists who constantly blame external factors and never take responsibility for the miserable failures of their ideology.

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Based and redpilled.

50 years from now large centralized states won't exist. America, China, Russia will all be broken up into many different states, maybe even city-states

Once crypto fungibly scales there is literally no other choice

an object like a plane, you can adjust and tinker with its properties like the wings, propeller size, the engine, and so on. humans you cannot do that. its anarchism's fundamental philosophy to not control society. thats where the analogy fails

Anarcho-capitalism is impossible.

True capitalism will give rise to economic inequality between the working class and the private owners of the capital produced by the working class. From there, it is logical for these private owners to capitalize further by forming a state to secure their interests (crony-capitalism). A state will always rise from capitalism.

The optimal form of government would be free market anti-capitalism which is a stateless society that follows a free market. Businesses in this society have a flat structure so the workers own the means of production.

>Great they hire mercs and shoot anyone using a different cable company in their territories and make their service worse.

wow, you are like an economic genius or something. U should totally write a book.

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But a government is exactly that, a gang that has the most firepower in a given area. Its power rests only on coercion and people being brainwashed to not fight back. A private security company becomes big and powerful because of how successful it is in protecting its customers, which is why it will be stronger than a thieving government.

>humans you cannot do that
your class bias is showing. Literally the reason why upper-middle class children gravitate towards punk so heavily.

Will crypto currency soon make the state obsolete?

Most retarded post in this thread, so far. Good job

>humans you cannot do that
So there is no difference between modern society and the stone age?

Excellent rebuttal. You embody Jow Forums and that's not a good thing.

>post retarded thing
>get called retarded
>act surprised when you're not taken seriously
lol

Economics don't really come into play when the companies in question have more resources than the other guys offering the same thing and are free to shoot the people that don't comply.

> private security company becomes big and powerful because of how successful it is in protecting its customers, which is why it will be stronger than a thieving government.
That is a faulty assumption. Its like saying african warlords become powerful due to their ability to protect the african people. They become powerful because they have the firepower to assure their dominance.

Its going to be involuntary regardless because who holds the guns doesn't matter as they are still the ones making the decisions. You also have this weird idea of the economy working in the same way in this system when it really woudn't. You would have barons and warlords of areas demanding certain fees which could range from slight to massive for any number of reasons.

This is pure fantasy nonsense.

he's right though, Samuel Edward Konkin III

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I know most of your posts in this thread are bait but I'll try a little more. How do you think real capitalism is being tried right now? Post a thoughtful response to this or be exposed.

>shooting potential customers

only statists can be this retarded

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I meant

Uh oh, looks like I'm exposed! Pee pee poo poo!

Find it slightly humorous that a book titled "Basic Economics" shares the colors of a retarded meme ideology that doesn't know or care about economics, kek

Shooting them and selling their valuables for more than they would have gotten for the service is also viable in this economy. It doubly serves the purposes of showing the other customers that you aren't joking.

you're asking something different now. your original analogy drew an equivalence between a mechanical object and a society. the ancap proposal explicitly forbids controlling or tinkering with people in a similar way

i dont believe it is even possible to do such a thing especially in long term (1000s of years) and wide scales but that is an issue aside

society changed, human nature didnt
no one said society cant evolve, merely that you cant isolate and change the things you dislike like you can with a physical object
any change made will come with dozens of unforseen consequences evidenced by: every cult, religion, ideology, political movement, and every other ideological person/group that tried to manipulate human nature to suit their beliefs

African warlords become powerful because they prey on their population's notion that they're needed. If people like you stopped licking the government's ass and stopped paying taxes, converted all their fiat to crypto, engaged in dark market trade and if entrepreneurs created private security businesses to protect them from government's coercion, the warlords both in Africa and America would be defunded and defeated.

If you want an idea of what a completely free market looks like, look at the Latin American drug cartels. You’re gonna be cucked either by the government or some big capitalist enterprise, you can’t win either way. The best solution is to have a balance of the two and do as much as you can to prevent government and corporations from having 1:1 interests so they keep each other in check.

I'm asking you why you think society can't improve when it demonstrably has over history. Ancap only forbids coercion, not people influencing each other through economic incentives on the free market.

We don't post reasonable things here. Only extremist views. Shoo

Reminder that Ancaps manchildren are just as retarded as commies, but actually even worse because they actually exist

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>If everyone were perfectly intelligent and will to take the exact same risks and the governments and similar bodies completely ignored them my ideology would work
Like I said its pure fantasy. For extra points explain how property rights, law and justice would work in this system. For extra double points try to explain how to deal with foreign nations in detail instead of going "My totally free capitalist economy cannot be beaten".

Remember that anarcho-cap doesn't scale and are incapable of a unified reaction assuming they even wanted to and weren't paid by foreign parties to not intercede.

>people influencing each other through economic incentives on the free market DOESNT morph into coercion readily

what
they both exist

Nah, you see a lot of social democrats and faggot marxists

But Ancaps are everywhere on this site and in life, Fucking retarded children

lmao you are so out of touch with reality

>guys all you have to do is dissent to the warlords and they’ll lose all their power
right
>dur just make your own security business
with what money? the warlords? I guess you could get some rich prince to steal some of a warlord’s resources and start a war against them, but if that gets too hard then you can just take resources from the population
why do you think they’re called warlords and not lords?

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we probably depart on definitions of "improve."

you probably mean quality of life in terms of diseases, access to food and increasing technology. i mean spiritually and culturally. there is nothing improved about today's society over say, ancient greece. i dont care about an abundance of technology when all it does is feed people entertainment garbage that rots the human soul

>Ancap only forbids coercion
It forbids government coercion and that is it because it isn't supposed to have a government. It is fucking rife with every other form of it and will inevitably form its own government structure and stop being ancap because people get tired of all the fucking extortion and death.

I'm sorry, but have you ever met a human?

You can't say the government isn't threatening you and your livelihood you if you don't toe the line and then turn right around and say corporations won't do the exact same thing.

They would clearly just rob him

Capitalism literally requires a state to even exist. The US founding fathers understood this perfectly well.

It's only basement dwelling autistic larpers in 2018 who even entertain the notion of "stateless capitalism".

What's human nature, genetics? But our biology is not the only thing that makes us who we are, it's culture that has changed tremendously over human history and can be improved further.
Although on that note ancap would also improve the gene pool as it would stop the government from robbing the productive and giving their money to single moms and 3rd world immigrants.

this.

anarcho-capitalist society will always form a state. there is nothing to prevent it

but ... but we'd all agree to be nice to each other and respect the NAP

At the most basic level the government exists to protect the interests of the people as a whole against threats both foreign and domestic. Which means protecting from foreign nations and acting as arbitration between would-be corporate warlords.

Ancaps is retarded because they think the solution is to remove the government and it will solve every problem. It will only create more and governments are inevitable and required for societies to function outside of small groups. Fix the government so that it fits the needs of the people and provides the very vital services that governments provide.

Its trying to fix a leg wound by cutting off your leg instead of removing the arrow.

you realise the moment you start shooting people you create an incentive for people to shoot you? also why offer any service at all when you're already in the business of harvesting other people's property. sure enough in your world people only generate value once and there's no benefit to having a constant stream of income - so I guess yaeh, what you said makes total sense for a company.
also companies aren't made of people so they don't hesitate to murder their neighbours because they totally do not exist.

do yourself a favour and leave the basement once in a while.

the nap is the practical expression of the winning strategy to a constant game of prisoners dilemma.

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because we are social creatures, but what would ancap autists know about this? They live inside their own bubbles and money is their religion

>you realise the moment you start shooting people you create an incentive for people to shoot you
What people? The ones without a well armed strike force that don't live in heavily fortified buildings like you do?
>lso why offer any service at all when you're already in the business of harvesting other people's property. sure enough in your world people only generate value once and there's no benefit to having a constant stream of income
Its almost like I said to send a message to other customers. Its a way to get value from a potential customer that was not interested in your services while also securing your existing customer bases
>o I guess yaeh, what you said makes total sense for a company.
also companies aren't made of people so they don't hesitate to murder their neighbours because they totally do not exist.
Governments are made of people too. I guess they never do anything bad either.

Oh, shut the fuck up. You're the same retard in this thread who said that we should have a shitty commie/free market hybrid (What?) devoid of a state... yet in such a system, a state will always form eventually. There is nothing to prevent it.
Check mate you dumb fucking nigger.

I used to believe this, but if decentralized smart contracts properly scale with fungibility, then I don't think a state can survive in anything other than a ceremonial form

Property rights would obviously work better without the institutionalized monopoly on property rights violation that is the government. Security firms would simply enforce the private law of property owners and contracts between them.
I already explained that peaceful productive behavior generates more wealth for those that embrace it most fully, that's why if they invest it in guns they become more powerful than governments who leech off of their impoverished slaves. Companies enter into partnereships to achieve common goals all the time, similarly multiple security firms and private jurisdictions will form coalitions.

>Its trying to fix a leg wound by cutting off your leg instead of removing the arrow.

That analogy only works if the leg is not part of the original organism, like if the leg was forcibly attached, and it does nothing but waste your blood and is additional risk.

If you didn't have the artificial third leg, the arrow that was shot at you wouldn't have hit you, AND you'd be able to freely hunt whomever it is that shot the arrow at you.

Wrong. Crypto and decentralized smart contracts have completely changed the game. I was a libertarian until I learned about BTC, at which point I finally became a crypto-anarchist. There's no stopping this train except for the destruction of humanity itself at this point

As I keep repeating, those who don't believe anarcho-capitalist isn't possible need to take into consideration truly decentralized smart contracts and fungible decentealized currency.

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yes it is biology. culture can make people conform, but only while they are being watched and held accountable
with no standard to be held to, and no people to hold others to such a standard chaos breaks out

thats why people start looting during natural disasters or martial law, no one really cares and are just pretending
everyone is out for themselves an conforming is a form of doing this

>Its almost like I said to send a message to other customers. Its a way to get value from a potential customer that was not interested in your services while also securing your existing customer bases

hmm, they killed my best friend. I better buy their service and do not chip in to my neighbours attempt to collect money for a security provider that eliminates this thread to our collective lives. Also that other cable provider who offers protection against comcast suddenly doesn't look a lot more attractive, because the free market isn't a market place of solutions to problems people face.

>Governments are made of people too. I guess they never do anything bad either.

you're actually right - and they even do everything you said: they offer inferior services, imprison and murder people when they don't pay up, are generally very inefficient, steal from you and have a monopoly on force. gee, if only I could turn this into an argument against having states.

Not just that, but the basic function of defending capitalist property rights.

How would a business owner maintain ownership and control over the means of production without a state?

What if his workers decided one day to no longer listed to his orders, self organise their workplace, take control of production themselves, set their own working hours/conditions/wages, etc?

In the absence of the state and its armies of goons ready to come and squash any attempted worker uprising, capitalists would be completely powerless.

The state is the most important thing for capitalism's mere existence. AnCaps are pretty much the most retarded group of larpers in history, yes even more retarded than Marxists IMO.

What is this rubbish ideology membership talk. This collapsing of complex events into brainlet digested form isn't conductive to anything besides squabbling on the internet.

>Security firms will simply enforce the private law of property owners and the contracts between them
Private law established and interpreted by who? Someone who I can pay for an outcome I want? Yes obviously
> that's why if they invest it in guns they become more powerful than governments who leech off of their impoverished slaves
I don't know if you know this but making a plane takes a lot of resources from around the country and world and the number of trade agreements that go into it are massive. Each and every company would have to create their own trade agreement with every country involved. But lets ignore all that because it requires big think
>Companies enter into partnereships to achieve common goals all the time, similarly multiple security firms and private jurisdictions will form coalitions.
Congratulations you have a government in the making. They are enforcing law and enforcing rights against the will of those under it.

Morally, there is less murder and coercion now than ever before in human history, look it up.
The majority of people are now wealthy enough to think about more than just food and have time for intellectual pursuits.
Ancient Greece had slavery and constant wars.
What is "spiritually?"

>hmm, they killed my best friend. I better buy their service and do not chip in to my neighbours attempt to collect money for a security provider that eliminates this thread to our collective lives
Comcast has more money than you and everyone you know and already has a contract with every security provider that could threaten them to not to interfere in their customer interactions.

Pee pee poo poo!

If you're talking about ethereum then sorry because that's already centralized

>don't believe anarcho-capitalist isn't possible

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Established by the property owner and/or the contractual jurisdiction he chose to be part of.
Are you talking about trade agreements between governments? But they only exist in the first place if governments restrict free trade.
How does people and companies entering into voluntary partnerships equal government?

>Pee pee poo poo!
Nice rebuttal. You embody the blah blah blah

>only while they are being watched and held accountable
Anarcho-capitalists want to eliminate the state precisely because it is immune from being held accountable as its power rests on coercion and it gives itself permission to steal and enslave while pretending to protect people from those things.
You also changed the topic. The original claim I was responding to was "ancap cannot be implemented because it hasn't been," which is demonstrated false by any example of breakthrough progress where none had existed previously.

>Established by the property owner and/or the contractual jurisdiction he chose to be part of.
Great I don't like how this is going to turn out for me so I'm deciding I don't want to be part of this jurisdiction anymore. What are you going to do shoot me and take my property like some sort of government? Its all voluntary.
>Are you talking about trade agreements between governments? But they only exist in the first place if governments restrict free trade.
Trade agreements exist between companies and countries as well in addition to governments but why would you know that
>How does people and companies entering into voluntary partnerships equal government?
It isn't voluntary if the result of not entering those contracts is death or worse. It is still coercion which is the same as any government.