Why is the armenian incident considered a genocide while the trail of tears isn't?

did the armenian genocide happen?

>americands aint didnt do nothing wrong
>turks are worse than Hitler lel

kek

Based nip

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because genocide is defined by the UN that are just a branch of the american imperial world police
most historians consider all colonization of the Americas to have been one big genocide

i wasn't there

did it happen or not? simple question
did the ottoman empire and republic of turkey genocide armenians and other ethnic groups

>most people i know look not much different than any random european
Are you blind or have you never seen an European person?

where did I say any of that you dumbass turk?

Because NATO decide what genocides are and if they did it its not a genocide. The USA is a genocide. It exists because of the murder of 100 million indigenous people.

have you ever been to turkey? you couldn't tell who's what with a mixed race like ours

Armenians are very valuable.
They are superior.
I wish I was full Armenian.

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>muh genocide is (((real)))

I want to have +4 children with them.

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>murder of 100 million indigenous people

I guess smallpox had better start paying reparations.

Thy're not allowed into the EU because they're run by an islamist despot.

>Being an american in 2019 unironically.

Smallpox that was spread intentionally. And it wasn't just smallpox, the reason smallpox killed so many is because of the conditions they were being made to work and live in by settlers trying to kill them all.

>be armenian
>ottoman army is fighting WW1
>oppurtinity.jpg
>start raiding turkish/kurdish villages
>rape and murder civilians
>le turkisharmy returns and rekts the raiders
>hurr durr genocide
it wasn't genocide, it was self defense

have you ever been in turkey? not talking about touristic places

1.5 million Armenian men women and children were rebelling across large swathes of the Ottoman Empire?

It’s the same thing. Armenians were relocated for being trouble-makers and backstabbing Turks.

...and then they were massacred

>1.5 million
that number seems to increase with every thread

To be fair maybe there was places where massacres happened by individuals or a small group of turkish army. But it was no planned or government-organized genocide.

I'm proud of it

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the current number of chink/indonesian war death is 30 gorililion or shit, it's funny how they exaggerate the number to demonize us, which automatically made WW2 Japan the strongest power in the 20th century.

>that number seems to increase with every thread
It's been the commonly accepted number for decades. If you want to argue the number it's just being autistic. 500k, 1 million, 1.5 million, I don't care what the number is, no problem if you want to dispute it since that's not the point.
>But it was no planned or government-organized genocide.
Para-military organizations under orders of provincial governments killed hundreds of thousands in various ways. Somehow this isn't planned or government-organized because you say so?

China

>because you say so
because it doesn't make sense in any way. There was no reason Ottoman empire decided to genocide a nation.
>country has been dying due to rise of nationalism
>ottoman empire tried to steer away from nationalistic views for decades
>armenians have been living peacefully and getting good jobs in government for centuries
>there is nothing to gain from killing armenians other than more international hate
Westerners I've seen make a mistake by seeing this event like holocaust. Killing jews was in direct interest of fascist germany because it was their political focus. There was literally 0 reason Ottoman empire would do such a thing.

>>ottoman empire tried to steer away from nationalistic views for decades
Except for the Young Turks, the Committee of Union and Progress, the Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa, you know, the groups that may or may not have had something to do with this whole genocide thing.
The idea that the ENTIRE government was in on this and that every single Turk is ebil and killed Armenian babies isn't the claim I or any credible historical is making.

The holohoax didn't happen either.

No and why would I need to? We have more than enough of your kind here and you'll see the optical difference from a mile far.

Fuck Turkey
Fuck Japan
Fuck white people

Genocide is a crime and all cultures who practiced genocide in the past shall suffer

>native americans

based

Keep crying engine

>Except for the Young Turks, the Committee of Union and Progress, the Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa, you know, the groups that may or may not have had something to do with this whole genocide thing.
Its questineble how much power they hold especially in the army especially when we are talking about systematicly killing 1.5M people.
Do you have any proof? I'm not talking about some random graveyards found in anatolia or statements from the "victim"s. I'd like to see some definite proofs.

>Its questineble how much power they hold especially in the army
You're right about that. When it comes to the Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa, there's a common debate as to whether they were independent para-military groups or actually working under the orders of the Committee of Union and Progress. Generally, it depends on the situation.
>Do you have any proof?
There are ciphered telegrams publically available online. Of course you could easily wave them off as made up propaganda as many do, but you seem pretty reasonable. Take a look I guess, it's not everything but it's a start.
commons.clarku.edu/ottoman_materials/

genocide-museum.am/eng/online_exhibition_9.php

Crazy how so many of them lived long lives and held important positions in the Republic.

At least Armenians got the two most important figures of the genocide, Talaat Pasha and Behaeddin Shakir. I mean look at this guy, doesn't he look like the stereotypical villain?

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hol up so the ottomans actually executed some of the niggas involved in this shit? how come the turkish government denies it today? sounds like it was already taken care of to an extent, some of them were exiled I guess.

You know what, let's assume you're right. Nothing happened, no genocide.
How did the different Armenian diasporas formed around the globe, with the unique message that "something" happened?
How did several independent foreign intelligences conclude that a systematic genocide happened? Especially from Germany (see Scheubner Richter and Wegner) which were Ottoman's allies at the time.
Seems pretty obvious that some people left freely their home and thought "let's just blame some turks lol".

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It's also pretty obvious that Eastern Turkey went from hosting a sizable Armenian and Christian minority to literally nonexistent

Kemalists exchanged their prisoners with the prisoners the British were holding so most of them were freed.After that Cavid Bey and Nazim Bey, two members of the Young Turks from Salonica, were hanged in 1926 after Ataturk's assassination plot. Other than that the rest of the guys got off free and reached high positions in the new Republic. From the ones that got killed by Operation Nemesis:

> On 31 May 1926, the Turkish government passed Law Number 882, which granted property to the families of Ottoman leaders assassinated for their role in the Armenian Genocide. This law covered the relatives of prominent CUP members, including Talaat Pasha, Ahmet Cemal Pasha, Sait Halim Pasha and Behaeddin Shakir, among others. The legislation added they would be given property belonging to "fugitive Armenians". MP Recep Zühtü Soyak, the close confidante and private secretary of Atatürk said this new law was a strong "warning message to assassins: you may execute a Turk through an assassination! But, we will raise his offspring with your money so that tomorrow, he will gouge out your eye and break your head."

And in the 1940s, Talaat Pasha's body got returned to Turkey where he got buried in a nice ceremony.

the diseases spread throughout the americas by themselves and even the spanish tried to fight back against it because they obviously wanted their slaves alive. lands were empty of natives by disease by the time euros got there. vast majority were not because of being weakened by slavery

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>oh we escape from our motherland
>they killed most of us
>1.5 million or something
>why is that happened user, why did they massacre you? you were called "loyal nation" for hundreds of years. you were the most wealthy part of the community. bourgeoisie of the ottomans, the craftsmans. what happened btw the relocation/genocide and these good old times.
>a-user i...
your turk hatred blinding your eyes. just think before the """genocide""". i'm not saying 400k or 1million of armenians got killed. but you're missing the point that those armenians killed that much of turks and kurds here. hınçak and taşnak were sacking the villages. i wish no one died but if you take the opportunity to kill the turkish women and children while their men in trenches, you cannot just say they killed us and we fled. it would be hypocrasy otherwise.

This is wrong. They were trying to kill them because there was almost an endless supply of slaves and they wanted their lands because of the mineral wealth and later because Europe found that it could all its problems with poverty and political infighting by promising people land in the new world.

For how much you guys were calling for proof, I'm sure you can show us some for your statement now.

Read >but you're missing the point that those armenians killed that much of turks and kurds here
That itself would line up perfectly with propaganda made by the Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa. They massacred both Kurds and actual ethnic Turks for safehousing Armenians and vice versa.
I can pull up those specific documents if you'd like, there are many. Here's one: commons.clarku.edu/bitlis/1/

>Of course you could easily wave them off as made up propaganda as many do
I will check them out however I have the right to believe that they are made up. It is crazy how much things can be falsified or modified with modern technology.
>How did the different Armenian diasporas formed around the globe, with the unique message that "something" happened?
How does any political view get popular? Government thinks it will be beneficial to them or their country then the word spreads through media and other canals. With my statement you can also point out that this genocide is more about the political power than reality.

Bravo, for dismissing everything in my post. At this point we might as well lay an apple in front of you and you'd be screaming it's broccoli.

Every purported Genocide is an actual genocide.

The determining factor should be how much the people being genocided deserved it.

Personally, I think the Armenians are based, so fuck the turks on that one.

Meanwhile, plenty of native tribes deserved it.

The German kerfuffle, honestly, the ones the germans went after deserved it. Same with the whole 37-45 thing in Asia, the Japanese were far more based than the others, so criticizing them now is wasted tears.

I responded to only thing worth responding in your post mate

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i'm not that user. but what's your point, fritz? just tell it without being too cocky.
>did turks killed armenians?
yes
>was that a genocide?
it was not imo
>did they deserve that?
not all
>did women and childs get killed?
yes
>are you happy with that?
no
>do you think it was a planned genocide?
it was planned but not as a genocide
>would it be better if it did not happen?
yeah, why not?
>would it be better for turkey to accept it was a planned genocide?
don't think so. and what would it change?

now it's your turn, fritz.

>it was planned but not as a genocide
What was it planned as then? And based on what documents are you making that decision?
The ones I've read point to planned removal of a specific ethnic/religious group. Sounds like genocide to me.

Most Turks are white but you get the Armenian/kurd creatures.

by the state archives and the tehcir law's itself.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehcir_Law
devletarsivleri.gov.tr/

The Kemalists were celebrating when the Population Exchange was brought up between Greeks and Turks, and were hoping to try and include Armenians as well. Let's be real here, every Turk is glad that no Christian remained in Turkey.

what does a European look like retard

>study abroad
Erasmus is a bringer of degeneracy, the vast majority of people who go on Erasmus don't even bother to learn the local language as they just stay with other Erasmus speaking English.
For women it's Whorasmus

oh wow. now we're guilty bc of the exchange too? it was venizelos ffs. and no, most of the ppl don't hate christians or greeks or any other race/nation you can say. we have churches, even in my fucking small town which has 100k population in its biggest district.