I fell for the programming meme. 3 years experience. every company tells me they're looking for someone "senior level"...

So glad I got my first Dev job.
So lucky.
Fucking hate every new developer because they're shitting up the place asking for jobs. Fuck off we're full.

Dude literally everyone on Jow Forums wants to be a developer. I've been doing this since 2008 working bullshit jobs. Now Bill Gates and Zuckerberg are pushing for schools to teach more Comp Sci so they can crash the value of labor. That's why they shill the programming meme so hard here. More labor = less demand = less pay

USA. thinking about moving. I've heard there's a big shortage in some smaller Euro countries.

Where I work at, I have to do design, development, bug fixing, and QA. Most of the time, I have to work under many constraints. The new features that I implement will have to work with the existing buggy, poorly optimized codebase running on a unreliable 3rd-party platform with lots of bugs and quirks. There are occasional meetings to discuss progress, issues, and showcase my work.

>sometimes they give you a project and you make the entire thing yourself and then it makes the company millions of dollars and you get a nickel in return
Why not steal the project, claim it as our own, publish it first and let the company with nothing?

there's a shortage if you're willing to accept €25k net/year.
In Germany €40k gross /year-:> ~€28k net/year, in some countries the ratio is slightly better or worse.
As a rule of thumb, in EU a net pay of X costs the employer 2x, so low pay is not a surprise.

Seriously? I just left my old job and have 3 years of programming experience. Moved from CA to Washington State for a mid-level position anda making $120k now

Let me guess you live in Seattle

Seattle is too expensive. I live in Redmond where it's nicer/cleaner and a bit cheaper, and the office I work at is in Bellevue

Often depends on other systems/components or client specific data, etc. Not necessarily something you can just rip off and sell to normies on the the Google Play store.

trying to become a wastewater plant operator, but only one fucking interview. for an entry level job, and i already know the infrastructure. i already work in env consulting and know their treatment processes and the regulations, i just dont have experience making repairs (infrequent).

like the first question the faggot interviewer asked me? "so you dont like consulting much or something?" fuck you, i just want to sample wastewater, write reports, monitor the reactor bed.

Is it really that bad? I thought there was huge demand for developers in Silicon Valley.
I kick myself every other day for becoming a pharmacist instead of going into software development. The money is great but I've always been interested in tech.

there is no demand when they import all of their workforce from India

and if you had the slightest bit of observational skills you would notice how hard programming is pushed on here and social media so they can get more labor and lower wages even further - as I already stated in this thread further up

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Fucking pajeets seriously. The worst of the worst.

They just fucking breed and do anything for scraps of money.

Depends on the tech. Anything AI related and software engineering is doing pretty good. OP probably fell for the web dev meme and is surprised he can't get a decent junior level position with just HTML, CSS, and Javascript

This. The entire market is literally "fake it till you make it".

go work on a shitcoin team

so should I quit learning to code?
I just started.

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>web dev meme
Does this apply to back end devs too?

Luckily most people are not smart enough to be competent programmers, so there is no real threat if you know your shit.

what should i choose: finance or software development? it looks like both fields are dying. computer guys are being replaced by normies and pajeets, financiers are being replaced by robots. dark times

Fuck user that sucks. Your degree was computer science or computer engineering? See if you could work in similar fields related to what you studied (computer engineering, finance, etc).

I don't really want a job in programming, I just want to be able to make my computer do shit like scrape the web and gather up that info into a chart or something, automate my tasks, hack into my neighbors wifi and pc then steal his wife's nudes. Simple fun stuff

make your own project

They just say that for an excuse to not hire expensive labour and to import cheap Indian labour.

No money in apps.

Let me guess. You are shite. You never worked on hobby projects outside uni. You don't have a specialisation in any area of programming. You don't have a passion for it or any cool ideas to for projects to make. A Pajeet could get to your level from studying online courses for 3 months. Pathetic. Go be a npc wage slave in one of the npc wage cuck industries. That is where you belong. Enjoy your life. I will be getting rich from programming while you want to end yourself.

Yep. If you can't get a job in this market as a programmer with 3 years experience you are not very good.

Your pic should have made it obvious

>tfw 33 year old khv
>make little money
>thinking of going into programming (know the syntax of a couple of languages, basics of algorithms, but never worked on any projects)
s-should i try it?

Who cares, just laugh at them and call them losers. They will be obsolete in a few years.

Jesus christ non programmers are retarded when they talk about programming. Yes ofcourse you should go into it. It's life with cheat codes enabled. Get a decent fundementals of programming course on udemy/pluralsight/codecademy. Finish that course. Find another course. Finish that one. Then make a hobby project in the framework you want to find a job in. Then get a job in that framework and live the rest of your life as a programmer god looking down on npc mortals.

Programmers will be obsolete by the time he learns. Also it's a shit pay job. Let some smelly ass indians do it. Any job that demands 5 years experience is not worth your time anyway. Bunch of assholes.

Explain to me how programming will be obsolete any time soon mr futurist. All programming jobs say 5 years experience. They just want to filter out plebs. I know people who one these contracts at 18-19 years of age. Show you are good with whatever framework etc they work in and they will hire you. Doesn't take long to get really good at your programming niche. Just have to make sure you have one.

All I'm reading are excuses. I bet you were one of those IT majors that spent a majority of their free time (and maybe even class time) playing Minecraft and Team Fortress. You should've been working on your own projects to gain marketable experience.
Pajeets are mucking up a bunch of different fields. But there will always be demand for competent, highly-skilled native workers.

Learn to code but realize unless you are taking directed classes most companies don't care. also being able to write for loops does not make you a programmer. There is a lot of theory and organization behind it you won't get by just doing work on your own without help.

I did about 20 different maths subjects in Uni, and 1 programming subject. Now I do make neural networks that detect fraud for a giant company.

Programming degrees are a meme. The best technical education is something interesting + a smidge of programming.

I wish i did more math at uni. Learning machine learning has been hard as fuck for me because i never recieved much of a math education.

How's enviro consulting? Class B wastewater operator here.

Programming takes no math skills. Just elementary addition and subtraction.

I'm talking about machine learning not programming. I have a programming degree. Machine learning is all maths.

There's no such thing as a programming degree LMAO. You got scammed.

Comp sci degree. Whatever brah

You still haven't explained how programming will become obselete soon.

why do you study it? is it for work?

Which one of these would you say is the better background to learn machine learning?
- only cs, no math
- only math, no cs?

Because dude technology ruins everything. There will be computers to program computers soon. And the only people who get to program programming computers will be those with experience.

Stop larping being a coder. Did you join groups, opensource projects and stuff? Did you put something on some appstore?
Being a coder is a lifestyle. Stop seing it as a job. Jobs are at walmart, you are at the right place.
I just read my 10th book about IT tech this year and another 2 to go. And I don't consider this "work", this is why they pay me 80k a year plus goldbars for meeting easy targets.

I don't see how that guy is smiling, it has to smell fucking terrible in there.

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I really wanna get out but I'm not gonna fuckin tell my potential new boss that. No way I'm advancing at current company

i fuckin LOVE programming

If i had to choose for ml it would probably only math, no cs. But you definitely learn both. The 'programming' you do in the ml frameworks like tensorflow and pytorch is much easier to learn compared to the math required to work as a ml researcher.

i'm and i can answer those questions.
but i can't do much else tbqh, like make my own program that does something. or even easily interpret someone else's code (even if it's short)

can i get a well paying job with what i have?

Lads, I just graduated high school this year and was planning on doing programming. I don't know what to do. I don't want to be a wage slave. Please anons, help someone who hasn't even starter anything yet.

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Should definitely learn both*

Any programmer hoping to achieve greatness should learn great math skills regardless of whether they are going into ml. So many other areas of programming such as games can utilize good math knowledge

>This is a candidate who had 8 years total experience

I don't understand
I DON'T UNDERSTAND
How does this happen? Did the guy completely lie about his experience? How do you work for 8 years and completely fuck up like this?

fuck you and fuck threads like this. I switched out of CS in my first year because of threads like this and took chemistry instead.

The amount of dev jobs compared to almost every field, aside from health care, is insane. If you can't get a job as developer you are the problem, not the field. I applied for almost a year with my chem degree to jobs barely over minimum wage and got nothing. I went back for a 2 year technical diploma and had a job before I even graduated makign over 50k a year.You are probably some dumb autist that doesnt know how to talk to people so nobody wants to be around you,

My brother has two years experience, doesnt even have a cs degee, and is making almost 90k. He has recruiters messaging him constantly on linkedin. If you dont want to be a doctor/nurse, go into software.

Kek

Nah I'm a game developer for work. But i want to make farming drones one day and other cool ai's.

Mechanical Engineer here.
How would you compare the field to programming?
If I did some coding on the side, just as a hobby, do you think it could help me out in MechEng?
Hoping to get into Robotics one day.

Finance has a more transferable skillset, CS is more valuable. Pick one you like I guess.

this is the dumbest shit I've ever read. it's a struggle to communicate program requirements to professional teams in english....you think we are ever going to be able to tell a fucking machine what we want them to create? kek. software user...not fucking web pages.

Exactly how it was for me too until this year. Then I quit and am now working autonomously from home as a freelancer for some clients

Profitable or not?

addition and subtraction? no. boolean algebra? ok. its just logic user.
>I learned about programming loops in middle school and now I'm an expert

Yes. While I only make around 70% of what I used to yearly, that only because I choose to work much less hours (40% of what I used to weekly). But now I have piece of mind, much more free time to do what I want, and can choose which hours of the week I work.
Also working on a side project which I will own completely.

What sort of background do you have that got you to this point?
I'm MechEng interested in programming. It was my second choice though.
I wonder if I can do something useful on the side.
Do I absolutely need a degree in CS to be competent at programming?

Very few programmers will ever use boolean algebra. Most computer science math is irrelevant to a programmer's day to day job, unless you're working on something math heavy like AI.

How many years away from code making code?

Is that after taxes?
28k in the pocket? Not bad for a start I guess.

To the degree where you can input a set of requirements and get complex, functioning software as the output? Not in our lifetime for sure.

yeah and these indians can't code for shit.

chinese have already pretty much killed the freelance market. a 3 week project for 200 bucks because chim chong has a sweat factory of "engineers" who will throw together just enough spaghetti code to fit within the general field of functional software.

Not all "requirements" are created equal. Some are actually necessary (like having a relevant degree), others are more fluid, especially years of experience.

If you can answer all of their interview questions, who cares if you have less experience? Know your shit and get work done.

thanks, machine learning seems interesting to me but unfortunately I have no background in either programming or math so I think I have a lot of work to do if I want to be able to even understand any of it

>Very few programmers will ever use boolean algebra
That’s entirely untrue. Ever used an if statement? Unless you’re some fucking HTML web dev you’re going to use boolean algebra

You're being a bit obtuse. That's kind of like saying any kid who ever throws a ball in the air is using trigonometry. Technically true, but the kid doesn't need to understand trigonometry in order to throw the ball.

Exactly. Most programming involves logic and being really good at math will translate to being really good at programming. But directly you aren't using any advanced math only basic stuff like algebra.

>i = i % 1

wat

>javaascipt
>one guy writes in html
>node and ruby
these are clearly web developers he is interviewing. when would they ever need to use modulo?

80k a year to literally devote every waking hour to coding LOL

you could easily make 100-120k just making spreadsheets and doing emails. what a massive fucking sucker you are.

it doesn't matter if you "know your shit" if you are interviewing and there is a senior developer with the exact same skillset but he has 10 years experience, they're going to go with him as they feel more confident he can get the job done right.

Finance. I know some finance fags and all they do is make spreadsheets and emails and browse the internet. Easy.

Am I an employer or an employee? You want me to make my own cool ideas for a project, I might as well open my own shop you dumb cunt.

Have fun devoting every waking hour of your life to making projects outside of work just so you can barely break 6 figures in 2018. Sounds like a great gig.

if I'm making my own project, I'm making it for myself. You keep churning out cutting edge ideas for your measly 80k a year so some tech illiterate boomer who owns the company can make millions.

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>Am I an employer or an employee? You want me to make my own cool ideas for a project, I might as well open my own shop you dumb cunt.
I can't just tell me employer that.
They expect me to be innovative

Lmao at this thread... if you can’t get at least a 60-70k job right of our college with a CS degree there’s something wrong with you. You can be a C- student with no projects or internships and still find something these days. Maybe the AI meme will turn out to be true and we’ll be fucked in 10 years but for now it’s fucking great to be a software dev. Even doing crud apps you’ll find tons of good paying work if you don’t live in a random shit hole state

where do you live then faggot? you're making shit up

unless you live in SF, Seattle, Chicago, or NYC you're not going to find anyone to hire you for that

>Finance. I know some finance fags and all they do is make spreadsheets and emails and browse the internet. Easy.
you forgot to mention they do this 70 hours a week

Programming is for people who enjoy it, nobody will hire a person who just goes to get a cs degree and all his programming epxerience is from few classes and he does not even like it. THats why about half cs degree people quit their careers before they even get a first job

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There’s at least 1 or 2 dozen metro areas in the US where the above applies. You don’t need to live in NYC or Bay Area. Texas is doing pretty well right now. 60-70k is fine even in a high cost of living area if you have roommates, barring perhaps the Bay Area.

It fucking sucks. Environ consulting was the first interview I ever got (in 2014) and they offered 55K in New Jersey. Fucking top kek. I make 90K base in Texas now cus I didn't fall for that bullshit.

>can literally conjur useful shit out of thin air

i envy programshitters

As a software developer I don’t know how anyone can cope with not being a software developer. It is THE Chad profession. What other field pays 200k your first year with just a bachelors degree? What other field has $60 an hour internships? What other field has 100k signing bonuses? What other field allows someone to shit out an application that they wrote as a side hobby and sell it for millions of dollars? I really don’t know how 50k/yr MBA spreadsheet cucks cope with not being a programmer Chad.