What happens to crypto when the stock market finally gives in?

Crypto is one of the riskiest assets, in a crash situation the riskiest assets get sold first. Crypto is dead once people don't have spare money to throw it in. A stock market crash also means house prices and wages down, people will hold onto their last bucks for dear life and there will be 0 people buying crypto but a lot of folks selling.

>This is a reason why we see gold for example go up when traditional assets and securities are doing poorly
Gold has an "anti crisis behavior" - always had, always will.
Individuals own it, as do states.
"Gold" is equivalent with "wealth". Always was, likely to be that way.

But Bitcoin has no "anti crisis"-behavior, as it is manipulated as fuck. It has no historiy, no culture, no state owning it. You cannot do anything with it.

Note: not saying crypto cannot make sick gains. But if you think crypto is going anywhere but straight to zero in a serious economic crisis, you are part of the "new paradigm"-crowd, from which I got my money from back in mid-december, when I cashed out.

imagine paying $6m for pizza lmao

To be fair you can’t say bitcoin has no “anti crisis behavior” absolutely. The empirical evidence just does not exist to back the claim either way. I will say however, it does look like bitcoin performs like gold during economic downturn, again if you look at Venezula, Turkey, Iran or India we see INCREASED bitcoin adoption and ownership in these countries because they are facing rapid inflation. We will have to wait and see how the chips fall when another large global recession occurs however.

Just a quick note; in all these countries with tumbling currencies the people would prefer to change into dollars. Cryptos are not their first choice.

Arguably you cannot do anything with gold too. Also
>bitcoin has no culture
nice cope

Perhaps it comes down to the severity of the upcoming crisis. Will it be only relatively minor recession (in which rich people will be finding new outlets to park their money into) or a full-blown shitshow?

try 60 million currently...

>The empirical evidence just does not exist to back the claim either way.

Cryptocurrencies are on the "extreme"-side of the high-risk investments within any portfolio. Look up how said high-risk investments turned out in the past decades.

>Arguably you cannot do anything with gold too.
Worst case, if is a shiny paper weight.

>nice cope
See - I made good money in crypto.

Nobody knows.

>full-blown shitshow
Ten years ago, we HAD such an event. And most high-risk investments went to shit. Even some of those who were "ok" by normal standards went to shit. If the economy would crash significantly harder than that, you better start to buy salt, sugar and flour.

No denying that we might face a smimilar crisis in the next decade (depends on too many factors to say for sure), but the severity does not matter here in the first place. Bitcoin was meant to be a currency, not a speculative vehicle. But everyone is betting on it becoming a currency, so they can make bank on using it as the speculative vehicle to get richer, which (among other problems like scaling, PoW, mesh-routing etc.) prevents it from becoming a currency.

Also, what happens in an economic crisis? People lose their jobs.
No jobs = no money.
No money = no one buying BTC.
And what will unemployed people with crypto do? They will sell it to meet their financial obligations. Rent, food, education for the kids etc. needs money, not crypto.

Less buying power + higher selling pressure = crashing prices.

In the end, you all "hodl" and hope to become richer, while sane people like me long have left the market.

So blockchain technology is just a fad for you?

Gold could not be used as a payment option while bitcoin could act both as a store of value and as a currency store of value.
And the value increase is impossible to deny since there is only a set amount of bitcoins EVER TO EXIST.And gold could be mined from asteroids in the future for example.

Also what matters is more like the community behind it.I dont doubt boomers liked to run into gold when it was urgent but the times are changing and the internet would be the last thing to die on the earth.

As i see bitcoin can be owned and be used by a chinese or by a brazilian or an american person the same way and governments could not control it at all so crypto is a much better way to save values.

But ofc if people dont understand this they could sell at the begining but for what?
Usd?Local currencies of the failed governements?

What exactly would be the point selling at that point i mean the whole crash happens because of usd in the first place?Debt ceiling increase sounds like a good idea everytime it is used but is that a real solution?

Currently bitcoin is as globally accepted as usd or gold.

Only the community matters.And i dont know anybody who would buy gold in case of a crash.I mean what can you do with gold?
Pet it while you die of starvation?

You all got that wrong.
Bitcoin could be used by the community as a payment option from day 1.
>No money = no one buying BTC

What are you talking about?

This is like saying No usd = nobody is buying USD?

Bitcoin is fucking global.And more available to anyone than USD.And is something that is closer to gold than USD.

>Bitcoin is fucking global.And more available to anyone than USD.And is something that is closer to gold than USD.
Then how come global economy works on and everyone is using USD and not gold?

I dont know maybe ask Shekelbergstein and his thugs.
And dont forget to ask for the date of the next war while you are at it.

But for real...bitcoin is quite a baby compared to usd or gold.
And the only thing it ever did since it was born was getting stronger.

I was enthousiastic about it since about Feb 2017 throughout the rest of the year. But the more research I put into it (background in IT & finance), the more it came clear that it is just a speculative vehicle, which I had chosen to leave in December.

My knowledge in tech concluded, that it is not even sure to be beneficial to anything. And the finance-guy in me was disgusted about the political bias, blatant manipulation, lies, deception and fraud in the market. Libertarians are never good business partners and the crypto market is full of them.

>I dont know
I am sorry to say this, but you sum up pretty much everything you know about financial markets, economy and technology.
I am not sure if BTC will "die" as in e.g. stop being in existence (which could happen if e.g. a blockchain death spiral occurs).
But global currency? Say "hello" to:
- still unsolved scaling problem on the tech side
- centralization of chinese miners on the political side
- unproven "rarity equals value in a currency"-thesis (while fiat proves the opposite to be the case since Bretton Woods)

"Adaption" will not happen. Because if it will, the fees make it unusable again.
Inb4 "lightning": mesh routing problem

Who exactly are these a lot of people you think are selling? Who's cryptos primary investors? If you honestly believe your stance, why would those people in crypto sell if the reason they are in crypto to begin with is to take back sovereignty. It's like having a bug out bag and burning it for heat the day after the apocalypse begins. See you're retarded.

>the reason they are in crypto to begin with is to take back sovereignty.
You completely mistake motives. Almost all retail investors want to make money out of crypto. Chasing the "my own bank"-dream is an additional thing to make people feel good, but if a relevant amount of people would place this above the motive of making money, we would not see so many memes about "making it" or people asking for opinions on the price.

Subtle troll 7/10

I see, you trained your debating in /pol.

If the stock market completely caves in then cryptos will go down because people will desperately need to sell to get $$. However, this time around when the economy takes a downturn the dollar will go into hyperinflation. When hyperinflation occurs, people will want to preserve their wealth and thats where PMs and Cryptos come into play. The big moon shot in crypo everyone is expecting will only happen when the dollar hyperinflates because hyperinflation gives EVERYONE a reason to want it. 99% of the world doesnt own/use crypto because there is no immediate need or benefit to having it. Most of the 1% that do own crypto own it because they can see all of this coming.

stock market wont crash, moron. its literally the only good way to make money. You see the housing crash in this chart? the stock market crash?

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It doesnt matter what happen when it hits. What matters is after it hits

>stock market wont crash
New paradigm

here were the last few crashes. do you see them in amazon stock?

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I think the safer guys will put money in gold and such. By safer I mean risk averse and more rich people.

But they will also put a percentage into crypto

Gold will increase more but crypto will see gains too. Cant predict how much tho. Can be anything to a slight bump

>gold
>risk averse and more rich people
I dont even...

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everything will get rekt
invest in tinned food

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What

Dollars are preffered, but there is still an increased demand for bitcoin.
Cryptocurrencies are a high risk invesment. Where they differ from historical high risk investments is that they are completely uncorrelated to traditional asset markets, thats the point I am making. The divergence is the reason cryptos possibly could do well or hold value in a recession.

While gold always will have a certain value (see the culture we talked about before), buying gold is not about avoiding risk. It fails to avoid risk. In fact, you can look up, how "secure" your money were with gold in the past couple of decades. If you then compare it with halfway sensible investments into stocks, gold just does not make sense.

Also, rich people use gold not as a safe way to stay rich. They use it to make their stuff shiny aka "use" it. But you have a hard time to find major positions of gold in the portfolio of people wanting to stay rich. Because it does a fuck-ass bad job in this regard.

One should consider buying gold to hedge, when a huge ass-fuck economical crisis is in full "FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK"-mode. Not, when it is "likely to happen in the next couple of years". Which is what differentiates the goldbugs from sensible and risk-aware people. The first one suggests to always buy gold. The second one knows a thing or two in economics.

>completely uncorrelated to traditional asset markets
A neither verifiable nor refutable statement, because we have no historical data on how cryptocurrencies behave during an economical crisis. Yet, we still lack any reason to believe that cryptocurrencies do not behave like any other high-risk investment.

Yes, but the small amount data we do have shows the during economic downturn Bitcoin becomes more valueable and adopted in places like Turkey, Iran, Argentina and Venezula.

Here’s an observation from crises past: when the shit hits the fan, everything becomes correlated. Gold shit the bed in 2008 before it mooned. Cash is king.

>le asteroid mining maymay
Are you this retarded in real life or just on the internet?

>he thinks blockchain tech requires crypto

I was a kid once as well

>more valueable and adopted in places like Turkey, Iran, Argentina and Venezula.

More valueable? Possibly. But I still fail to see a positive corellation between the price of BTC and economical crisis in economical emerging nations with borderline totalitarian governments. And even then, it is not sustainable.

Adopted? Not the case. At least not as a currency but as something, that can be used to avoid governmental capital control and get the money out of the country more easy. You dont need to buy gold on the market and drive it across a border, but simply buy BTC, send a private key to someone in another country and have him cash out.

The whole point of crypto beyond speculation is being an alternative asset during general crisis. If crypto goes down during that, it has literally 0 point besides crime.

Gold did not shit the bed in 2008. That was the beginning of a major gold bull run.

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Bitcoin has higher rates of adoption compared to national average in countries experiencing economic downturn is what i was saying by “adoption”

As you can see gold took a massive dump in 2008. It did go up eventually tho

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My point is that at the time of peak uncertainty/crisis, gold sold off too.

Crypto is.

People sold Gold to cover their losses in the market,
but barely anyone holds crypto this time, and absolutely no one has money in crypto that they will need to liquidate to cover losses in the market.

If crypto does dip with the market, I'd expect it to just be a psyop to flush out retards.
It will rise but whether it dips first or not is a gamble that I don't want to get involved in.
Buy and hodl.

People who think that crypto will moon when the stock market crashes are deluded. You idiots don't realize that most normies and investors treat crypto as silly tech stocks. When big tech dies, it is going to wipe out all of crypto along with it. Be safe and buy gold.

It has a higher rate of usage in terms of "amounts of transaction to prevent capital control" not in "I buy my daily cup of coffee with BTC"-terms.

How many people in Venezuela did you think used BTC from January to March? The transaction fee was almost a month salary for them back then.

It dumped on the 800B bailout news

Adoption can be as broad as higher levels of ownership, I’m not by any means saying it is being used as a medium of commerce in these countries but merely has higher levels of ownership than national averages in these countries which are experiencing economic downturns.

>muh third world
This is a meme that literally does not exist, nobody in shithole countries actually uses crypto like you faggots say. They cant even afford a bitcoin, how the fuck can they use it?

youre retarded because the marketcap is much bigger
We would have to go into yet another bubble to even reach 10k bitcoin

Gold dropped 50%, your image is misleading and cherry picks certain points by gold bugs

Gold crashed, then recovered slower than everything else including bonds

But ownership does not mean anything, as long as there is no corellation in between the value of BTC and the economical situation of said states.

Can you read? The evidence shows that in these countries that are undergoing economic downturn Bitcoin adoption rate is higher than national averages. Bitcoin adoption rate simply means more people own Bitcoin on average not that they are using it, they are protecting their wealth with bitcoin. Also, you don’t need to be able to buy a full bitcoin, you are talking and reasoning like a dumbass.

Local bitcoin prices are higher in these countries than typical exchange rate. Many factors at play for this like capital control but we do see increased demand for Bitcoin in these countries, its not even disuputable, I’m stating facts. Wether bitcoin goes up durinf a global recession is disputable.

It does not cherry pick, its the YOY return on gold. Also,

Manipulated data and stories from cryptocrappers mean absolutely nothing. There is literally no use case. You cant protect your wealth with fake internet money. Only gold can do that.

The data is not manipulated, it is simple market data and per capita ownership data. Maybe you can’t “protect your wealth with fake internet money” but people in these countries think you CAN which is the most integral peice for something to become money or a store of value.

And when they all get burned by all crypto going to zero, they will have learned their lesson. Never buy snake oil.

I’m stating facts, all you are bringing to the table is conjecture. You should open your mind and think more critically about things.

>Local bitcoin prices are higher in these countries than typical exchange rate
You are right, yet there can be many reasons, why this is the case. This can range from inflation to simply a way lower supply of BTC for the local market (we saw this phenomenon in Africa several times). It is unlikely that this impacts the overall global price of BTC, as most of these users only use BTC as a vehicle to go from local currency --> BTC --> USD.

Because with USD, you can buy anything, anytime, everywhere.

Amen

>>correlating sjws and "Global Warming crowd" with fucking SOLAR MAGNETIC ACTIVITY lows

this has to be bait. Holy shit "dramatic cold period" bwahahaha. Been happening every 11 years since the sun formed

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you still here?

Yes

Roger "MtGox is fine, CSW is Satoshi, DASH is the real Digital Cash, XT/BU/S2X/BCH/BSV is the Real Bitcoin/Bcash is my project/BUY MY ICO" Ver,

Look here how to respond properly:
People in crisis-hit countries are using crypto to smuggle their wealth away before the state/inflation or others get it.

Here, I will even give you a link. Pic related.
businessinsider.nl/dash-cryptocurrency-surges-in-venezuela-as-hyperinflation-explodes-2018-8/?international=true&r=US

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We will see how crypto responds to a financial crisis. It helps the case if there's also a currency crisis (which is a good reason there will be), but there are forces that act negatively for the crypto, mainly because people are cashing out to save for essentials or for the dip.

Care to share your portfolio and your general moves in the upcoming year?

>he wasn't buying pizza newfag.
>plebbit has been unironically peddling this cp meme for years now.
>don't tell them when you go back.

Sure, first my philosophy. I am a long term investor seeking extremely high multiple returns. So my dilligence is based on this strategy. I reasearch fundamentals heavily and am not concerned by short term price fluctuation. I won’t share my portfolio weights but I will say the majority of my holdings are in bitcoin. I entered a low margin long on Bitcoin recently and am invested in Cardano, Stellar, Enigma, Ethereum, Siacoin, and Decentraland. Some of these holdings make up extremely small amounts of my portfolio for example Decentraland, I just think its a very novel idea but probably not a good investment. I see 95-98% of current blockchain projects failing but I am not a bitcoin maximalist and believe that there is room for multiple platforms in the world. There are some gems hidden in the pile of dirt but you MUST manage your portfolio risk and should prioritize bitcoin ownership.

What about an investment vehicle? Could it turn out to be a solid option for diversification?

What do you think is the value proposition of BTC in long-term horizon?
On which platform are you holding that BTC long (fees)?

I don’t like to speculate price targets but technologies typically reach the critical mass crossover point around 20% adoption. So discounting for children and others who will just never participate in this system we will likely see the crossover at around ~800M bitcoin network participants/holders. Price rise will be fast exponential as the network grows at its fastest rate, according to Metcafe’s law. If bitcoin is adopted globally as the dominating currency one coin will easily be worth 10s of millions. Within 6 years my model shows bitcoin reaching 280,000-350,000$ per coin. I’d rather not share what platforms I use.

Roughly the market cap of gold in 6 years

I bet they sat on the pizza shop computer fopr awhile and were eventually thrown in the dumpster

would you be willing to mentor me??
you can have all my profit as long as I learn something new

[email protected]

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What knowledge do you think I could impart on you? What are you seeking to learn? I don’t need any money from you.

alot regarding finances I hope, and in general how Value moves up and down, influence it haves on the world globaly.

Also I hope, how to learn TA and become better at earning money. as Of now I got severly limited life after I ended up in "loney bin- stress induced psyhosis"

And having a mentor makes learning new stuff, very easy(time investment). mainly from the increased level of asbortion of info, compared to traditonal textbooks(school systems)

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>May I ask how crypto is different from any other high risk, extreme volatile investment that almost always go to shit completely, if the economy turns to shit?
most of the money came in from speculation and hype, but the technology theoretically allows for everyday-usage, and there are billions of normies out there that have no idea what crypto means.
what i'm saying is that a highly decentralized coin could potentially tap into all the normie money still out there.
not saying it will happen, in fact i doubt it (i think there will be a global digital currency, and also that it will not be made from a private company), but id like your input on how this is not a valid argument for more growth.

Well like I said here I’m a long term value investor. I could teach you about domestic and global markets and how they operate also the history of American finance and money systems. I don’t do a bunch of technical analysis, I’m not a day trader. I do look at charts to determine entry points. Unfortunately learning these things is not easy and you will always have to continue to seek information. You need to be very strong mentally to succeed in the markets aswell. I’ll consider helping you out, if you could be a little more specific on what you want to learn. Fundamental analysis, entering/exiting a trade, risk management, etc.

Also if anybody emails you asking for compensation for teaching you, it is not me.

Well all of that sounds very intresting. Learning entry points would be great as well.
risk managment would be super to learn.

I am not hungly into daytrading. investing and letting it grow is more my style(less stress))

If there are books I should read I will, no problems there. But I would need to discuss parts of what I read, as I do have some problem ingesting writen information(or poorly presetented information(atleast from my point of view)

and also you should think about it for a bit.
as I am very long term on these things. soo I do want to learn a great deal of things. if you have the patientc.

Will go to bed. take care. good thread.

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To make it easy. what should be the first thing I should learn from your point of view? and then build on that.

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get on my level faggots

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Sounds like portfolio growth and management is your goal to me, so without knowing what your starting knowledge is you should learn about basic factors of market dynamics first. Bids/asks, size, market depth, complex orders, shorting, volume, margin, liquidity, slippage, etc. Then you should read some books on market psychology and get some personal experience paper trading or with a very small amount of money.

have traded from 2k am now sitting on roughly 16.5k. will copy past what you wrote and start reading up on it. thanks man.

My primary goal is knowlege regardless the cost of aquiring it

will copy past down what you wrote will start looking into it

still easier than oldwow raiding

what exactly am i looking at?

This, but make sure to buy the bottom, just as one should have bought the bottom of the stock market collapse in 08

it appears that he is using astrology and star charts to assist him in trading Ethereum. I’m pretty sure he is kidding, at least I hope so

i got that it is astrology, but i was wondering what exactly those diagrams represent.
no, i'm not going to use them.