PREPARE!

1) its a private fucking company. why would banks not simply create their own crypto, eliminating the middle-man?
2) the token itself is useless and thus holds no value. why would i buy it off of you for x dollars (whatever amount would buy you a fucking lambo) when i don't need it?

1. What if they don't have a choice?
2. What if certain governments were prepared to back Bitcoin with physical assets?

i was talking about XRP, not bitcoin.
the user i replied to desperately tried to shill the XRP shittoken as the new global currency.
speaking about bitcoin: it could become part of a basket of virtual assets at best, it simply can't function as an actual (day to day) currency. in that case it would be part of other assets backing the dollar, not vice versa (not the one *being* backed).

Stopped reading when he said bitcoin had no underlying value. Fucking illiterates man, they're everywhere

Why can't Bitcoin function as a currency?

gonna put money into ripple
doing the opposite of what biz says always makes me money

because it doesn't fucking scale.

>doing the opposite of what biz says always makes me money
reddit loves XRP (just go there and see). you're in good company, i promise. gl user. just pls stay there.

Empire vs Rebellion basically, Star Wars becomes a reality with Ben Shapiro being the most influential senator in the galaxy

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The OP was referring to Bitcoin. Millions of them are being held by governments or banks right now.

As far as it being able to scale.
Probably more than most realize, but it depends on how it gets rolled out.

Apparantly its going to be ZCASH. It was featured on the wconomist, has connections to MIT, Israel, Rothschilds, etc

>back Bitcoin with physical assets?
that's an abomination best not even speak of!!
asset backed crypto is the most retarded shit ever conceived.

Well you are right of course.
It depends on what the elites want to do.
Are they going to allow crypto to be a free market system that finds value on its own.
Or will they try to 'lock it in place' based on how much new notes they print and how much PMs they hold?

Can't tell.
Free market option sounds better though.

No, they will play their games on BTC too. But credulous fools will think they're clever and have avoided them, because they don't actually understand cryptocurrency.

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DELETE THIS IMMEDIATELY

if you think with the head of central bankers and the financial elite for a moment it becomes pretty clear what the ideal money is for them:
>quick cheap and safe to transact (no human error or misdirection)
>based on central (albeit somewhat distributed because none of them trust each other) authority and trust both in issuance and in transactions
>growth of the money base adapts to the growth of the economy and economic activity thus keeping inflation at around 2-3% as much as possible
>high transaction capacity and closed auditability (no zero proof systems), it can be closed from the public eye but it will be open to the central banks and regulatory institutions

as opposed to btc which is:
>deflationary fixed supply
>based on proof of work and is distributed and trustless decentralized (in theory)
>low transaction capacity and total open and public auditability

the financial elite sees btc as a speck of dust under their shoes hard to even see in the vast sea of sand that is the monetary system. the memeing annoys them sure.

When you put it that way Bitcoin sounds pretty based.
If they attack Bitcoin, they aren't actually attacking Bitcoin thanks to the fact that it forked twice.
I wonder if they know which one to try and kill.

This is why crypto is such an absolute cesspool right now. It's become a market traded on conspiracy theories.

I haven't come across a single other security/commodity that is traded this way.

yeah all i'm saying that almost all properties of bitcoin that makes it great is something that is totally worthless in the eyes of the masters of the financial system.

that is why i cringe when people talk shit about it becoming world reserve currency. it fucking can't. it's like saying goats are cheaper to maintain and more practical than women, some men even already fuck goats so all men will fuck goats in the future. it sounds logical except for that most men want to fuck women or other man they are not looking for a goat in their sexual life. even tho i'm sure goats are awesome on many ways.

except for metals of course which is even worse nutcase filled cesspool

Putting aside the bestiality, I think it possible that the old elite are being replaced by a new elite that have different views on how the world should run.
Some potential proof of this power change would be the election of Trump.

With Trump there is a choice

1. He is a pawn of theirs and a false hope.
2. He represents a changing of the guard.

The only way to know for sure is to see what happens in the future.
I've seen too many coincidences ... I think there is a non-zero chance that Bitcoin might actually play a big role in the future of money.

>I think it possible that the old elite are being replaced by a new elite that have different views on how the world should run.
i'm afraid if that happens they will be full on marxist big state assholes as opposed to the full on capitalist big state assholes we have now.

Not even close imo. If you mean the gold shilling because of the supposed upcoming financial collapse, that's not really a conspiracy theory per se. It's fear mongering and doomsdaying but not exactly a conspiracy as gold is a very secure investment in case of an economic collapse and has been so literally forever.

oh come on just watch some vids on youtube from gold and silver bugs... it will only take a few hours of skimming through the craziest conspiracy theories ever conceived. i think Jow Forums is not the natural habitat of gold bugs it's a generational thing.

Marxism is part of the old guard, and they vacillate between Capitalism and Socialism/Marxism as two false choices that keep the people thinking they are experiencing change while the elites stay in control.

Nah, I'm talking about things actually changing.
Like power shifting from people who want to control us, to people who think freedom is good.
It's only a possibility. And its a very small one.

And even if the new elites like freedom, they are probably going to be more ruthless and darwinian than the last group.

>i think Jow Forums is not the natural habitat of gold bugs it's a generational thing.

Yeah you might be right on that one..

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>Like power shifting from people who want to control us, to people who think freedom is good.
how on earth that could ever happen? anyone that seeks power by the very definition seeks control. because power is control. man...

if a group truly cherishing freedom and openness and self governance came to power they would completely lose it to populist power mongers backed by oligarchs in 2 years flat.

trump is a fine example what he is at his core is a populist power monger and an oligarch. what he says is what you want to hear. what he does is what makes him and his friends money even if it fucks your future utterly and completely.

he is the man that gives little kids a candy and porks them in the ass then says he is a good man he gives a lot of candy to children.

That's because the younger generation has been brainwashed away from Gold/Silver as being valueable.
Thankfully they have Bitcoin to lean on, otherwise they would be fucked.

It's leaning towards side pegging to provide scalability. The cartel will like anonymous sidepegs that don't cost anything to liquidate. I wonder which one that could be?

Yup, that's the possibility that I mentioned above.
He could easily be that.

But it's also possible that these new elites have taken power for righteous reasons. Do I think it's likely? Nah. Possible? Maybe. Mayyyyyybe.
We'll have to wait and see.

You have it backwards stupid. Gold is real savings.

The reason your investing in shitcoins is because you can't "make it" otherwise because the Jews in the govt are stealing our wealth Through inflation.... unironically because our currency isn't backed by gold anymore.

Being anti gold is like being anti water. You got educated in govt public schools that's why you don't value gold.

Even pajeet street shitters and starving sub Saharan Africans with no formal education even know that gold is money and savings

Crypto will have to be backed by gold.

I mean wtf is going to happen? Bitcoin goes up and down like crazy. You can't use that for a currency.

Most of the idiots in this board are retarded. And don't even understand the number 1 primary function of money.... which is to MEASURE VALUE for goods exchanged for it. Something gold has done for milennia and still does today despite being demonetized by govts.

yeah i'm not gonna rise to this bait sorry i have tried to explain a hundred times why everything in that post is total horsecrap and it doesn't stick.

i'm just gonna say this: money is debt. all money is and always was. it's the entire point to money. it represents debt. when gold was money gold was debt. gold is not money anymore so gold is a commodity now.

so tell me again, how can something be a blockchain if it's controlled by a central entity ?
Because as far as I know, "central blockchain" is just a fucking server.

Gold *IS* very much still money. There isn't a place in the world that doesn't have a pawn shop that won't give you instant money for gold. Not a place in the world.

There might even be places that won't take USD, but will take gold.

Just lmao user,
gold represents stored value
"hidden secrets of money" video series. 10 videos.
Enjoy

As someone who enjoys order, your idea is good.
But I wonder the consequences of 'forcing' something into place by pegging/backing one thing with another.

techno-weenie please go.

You've been brainwashed to think money is debt! MONEY IS NOT DEBT! Where the fuck did you learn that?

Our currency is a debt instrument now. Hence why the entire economy is fucked and we are 20 trillion in debt. You can't have freedom and prosperity when your currency is a debt instrument.

You need to rewire your brain.

uhm private blockchain as something used within a single organization is worthless a relational database is a billion times more efficient.

but you can have a closed group that implements a distributed ledger within the group. for example the central banks could run a ledger among themselves and it would still be blockchain even tho it wouldn't be open to you.

>MONEY IS NOT DEBT!
it is and always was.
try to think about it! not just regurgitate the bullshit you have been fed...
>You need to rewire your brain.
that's your cult conditioning speaking right there.

>"hidden secrets of money" video series. 10 videos.
>Enjoy
i did enjoy it it's very well made

Consequences? What are the consequences if we don't? We are living through the consequences right now of going off a gold standard and having a central bank.

the ONLY issue is prices are rising. Crypto doesn't solve that. Yeah obv we are moving towards payments and shit in crypto but there will have to be a gold revaluation at some point. The world is swimming in debt.

People with even just 500 ounces of silver will have a generation worth it wealth. People with usd will get a major haircut and become a lot poorer

private blockchain is a meme. Any tech literate person knows this.Please go back to your shrimp farming nigger, this is beyond you.

The bullshit that I've been fed? That gold has been money for milennia? That bullshit?

Go open up the Bible you can find a verse saying that 1 oz of gold bought you 350 loaves of bread 2,500 years ago before Christ was born.

That same gold coin from 2,500 years ago still buys you roughly 350 loaves of bread. If you take it to a coin shop you get $1,200 and if you take that $1,200 to a grocery store bread is about 3.50 which = about 350 loaves of bread

nigger what did i say? why not read it?

Bitcoin solves things through a fixed supply - no inflation.
Bitcoin is a digital approximation of Gold.
Using Gold to back Bitcoin is like using Gold to Back Silver, it doesn't make sense.
They both exist ont heir own merits.

>That gold has been money for milennia? That bullshit?
no
the bullshit about money being anything but debt.

It might be priced in Gold in the future, but not backed by it directly.

>Bitcoin is a digital approximation of Gold.
actually gold is mined at an exponentially increasing rate while bitcoin has a fix cap on supply. it's an improvement if anything.

just gonna let this here
twitter.com/RomanSemko/status/1066291110601928710

Gold is still rare enough to be useful
Bitcoin has its own issues as well.
They compliment each other nicely.

But gold has been money for thousands of years and still is and it's not debt.

Read the constitution, only gold and silver shall be legal tender...

Here is a quote from Thomas Jefferson explaining wtf would happen if we go the path we have gone since 1913... and we are living through exactly what he would describe what would happen.

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

i told you all asset backed crypto is bullshit. it's the biggest fucking snake oil shit crap nigger retarded concept in crpyto. because there is no way to back anything in a decentralized way. it's not possible. someone somewhere will just sell the fucking gold and keep trading the tokens on day 1 for instant profit.

>But gold has been money for thousands of years
yes
>and still is
no
>and it's not debt.
no

see? you are right 1 out of 3... that's pretty bad.

So what happens? Xrp becomes the world currency or whatever 99.99% of the world doesn't own xrp. 100,000 people or so own xrp. They all become rich because it goes to 200$ and everyone else is poor as fuck

I agree.
The market will figure out the correct value for Bitcoin.

Just because your god the govt says that gold isn't money anymore doesn't make it so brainlet. You'd probably drink your own piss if the govt declared that piss was water

21M Bitcoin
21 cubic M of Gold
Coincdience?

Except nobody owns bitcoin. So how the fuck is that going to work? I mean I would bet the avg crypto investor has less than 2 bitcoins

>that's a misunderstanding money is not made of nothing it represents liability. basically a promise of future performance. money always has been just that and nothing more.
>like i said before money is not an actual thing it's just a promise of future performance. that is why you can trade it for services because anyone you give your fancy fungible iou to knows he will be able to in the future exchange it to services he requires. if money is given in return of past present of future performance matters not at all. these things are not magically different you just move the burden of risk around.

try to read this again and again and understand and think about it then come back and we can discuss it further.

money is debt. this is the conclusion i have arrived to after 2 years of grokking on the issue. watching the hidden secrets of money series and a bunch of economic lectures about the history of economy and money.

yes an unbacked crypto is just valued on it's own there is no way to pull that value out from under it for any one actor (ideally if it's distributed enough).

also for it to function as money the relative price/purchasing power doesn't even matter.

You agree that gold and dollars are both forms of money correct?

Assuming you agree with that....

Which has held up better as money since 1913?

Fiat currency is debt
Money and currency aren't the same thing
Money is money
Debt is Debt

Saying that money is debt is like saying that red is blue
Money is the opposite of debt

Debt is an obligation of repayment of value
Money is the opposite of that, it is an obligation to get something in return for your value.

Money is stored value
Debt is stored lack of value

Money is proof that you can get something
Debt is proof that you owe something

go to your convenience store and buy a pack of cigarettes with a gold bullion! see what happens!
a) they take it on face value ie $50 and the cashier nigger basically buys it from you at a huge discount and you lost about $1000
b) they tell you to fuck right off

Average people don't dictate the course of things.

Markets can be manipulated though

Thank you. Spot on. Money is SAVINGS. Gold is REAL savings.

Dollars are debt instruments.

100 years ago a good weekly salary was 20$ which equaled an ounce of gold.

Today that 20$ buys you jack shot but that gold ounce converted to fiat is still a good weekly salary.

So you could have worked for a week in 1920 and held that gold coin for 100 years and still be able to buy roughly The same amount of shit today as 100 years ago. Whereas that 20$ doesn't buy you anything today

Money isn't debt. Money is a store of value. Value can be translated to mean 'energy' or 'effort'.

By your logic EVERYTHING is a 'promise of future performance'. Even if we went back to a purely barter economy, the things being bartered all have a 'promise of future performance'.

Also by your logic, the entire global economy would collapse as people could say 'yeah I'll do the work you want me to when you actually buy me everything I would with the money you'll pay me at the completion of my work'. Everything would literally collapse.

>You agree that gold and dollars are both forms of money correct?
not exactly gold was money in the old times, because it was an anti-forgery measure plain and simple. carried the proof of the work it took to find and mine the gold, to replicate it you needed to put the same work into it.

gold was also a form of debt a promise on future performance or goods and services. an iou that made accounting easy because of the uniformity/fungiblity. that's what made it money. nobody would have taken a gold coin for a pig if he wasn't sure he can get a pig for it next year. nobody! it is an iou that can be traded and is interchangeable (in fact is a medium of exchange). that's what money is.

today gold is a commodity not money. not more than iron coal zink copper or oil.

It isn't about buying shit with gold dude. It's about giving the currency a basis of value. Nobody bought shit with gold in 1960 under a gold standard.

Gold is both money and can be a currency too. But it is more importantly money.

And as far as buying things with gold. You can go on YouTube right now and see starving Africans panning for gold in river beds and when they accumulate .01 gram is gold you can see them exchanging it for a loaf of bread.

This shit is so easy dude. You say you research all this shit and watch videos on the history of economies and it's staring you straight in the face. And it's so easy to accept.

Being anti gold is like being anti water. It just doesn't make any fucking sense

>By your logic EVERYTHING is a 'promise of future performance'. Even if we went back to a purely barter economy, the things being bartered all have a 'promise of future performance'.
no barter is an immediate exchange of value. if you give someone a fish on the promise he gives you a fish tomorrow you just received an iou. when that iou is durable fungible a unit of account and so on and so on, you got money. if that money is clam shell or gold or paper or whatever the fuck doesn't matter. it's fucking debt.

If banks can replace dollar with crypto why would that mean crash is eminent? Wouldn't that make crypto both valuable and scarce if it becomes the norm?

Your idea of how money works is just wrong user.
Gold isn't an IOU, because there's nothing to be owed when you have gold.

Gold contains the value that you seek within itself.
There's nothing to be owed. Gold IS THE VALUE.

Currency is an IOU because its just a piece of shit toilet paper that has no value at all. It is an IOU because passing that paper around only works if people believe that at some point they can trade that paper for actual value somewhere.

Gold is not an IOU because if the conveyer belt of money transfer stopped and society collapsed, the last guy in line holding the gold would be perfectly happy and content, because Gold is value.

Like I said above.....

100 years ago a good weekly salary 20$ and 20$ equaled an ounce of gold.

Today that 20$ doesn't even buy you you lunch for two at Taco Bell. But if you exchange that gold ounce you earned 100 years ago at a coin shop you'll get $1,200 for it..... which is STILL a good weekly salary.

Just because the faggot govt says gold isn't money anymore doesn't mean it isn't dude. And my spoonfeeding you example above proves it

>It isn't about buying shit with gold dude.
yeah man i have to disagree money is for buying shit plain and simple. that is the one universal purpose of money is to "exchange it to goods and services" without providing goods and services on spot of your own.

The number one use of money is to store value.
Think of it as potential energy.
Being able to trade it for things just proves that people are willing to make things in order to get money in return.

Also...... do you think it's just a coincidence that since going off the gold standard a mere 40 years ago that the term "income inequality" is now a top 3 issue?

You know under a gold standard the term "income inequality" didn't even exist. Nobody said it.

So clearly gold not backing the currency anymore has fucked yo the economy so much that "income inequality" has become a huge thing

>Gold isn't an IOU
not anymore it isn't you are right about that. but when it was money it was an iou.

what gave gold value was not gold itself that's a moronic assumption. it was the goods and services it could buy. this was always true for any form of money. humans have needs, and they don't fucking need gold. a human can live without gold indefinitely. a human can't live without food, without water, without shelter, without clothes. well not on most parts of the earth and not in the way we define human life.

Yes you buy shit with money and under a gold standard those dollars were redeemable in gold! The DOLLAR represented GOLD.

Every heard the term the dollar is as good as gold? Under a gold standard you were buying shit with gold it was just pegged to the dollar.

Do you even know that it was gold that gave the dollar value?

250 years ago if banks started issuing dollars backed by nothing Americans would have told them to fuck off

>The number one use of money is to store value.
that's exactly what an iou is nigga.

Money isn't a need, you're right, it is an invention.
But inventions can be so important that they become very hard to live without.

Let's say I own 1 ounce of Gold.
What is the IOU part of this?
What do I own the rights to?

Your problem is you think the govt is god. That's why you don't accept gold as money anymore.

I just gave you a spoonfed example.

100 years ago 20$ was a good weekly salary and that 20$ = 1 oz of gold.

So if you went back in time and worked for a week and you made 20$. What would you take back with you to the future in 2018? The gold ounce which equaled 20$ or would you bring the 20$ with you?

I don't know how you can't understand something so simple

gold standard was retarded, same as an asset backed crypto there is no way for the public to enforce or audit the backing. but the reason why the government started to cheat was interesting: it didn't fucking work for the economy. booms and busts were constant, loaning got hard or impossible periodically. it was a nightmare on it's own. wages detaching from productivity increase are not directly related to abandoning the gold standard. only in that that leaving the gold standard probably enabled the insane productivity growth the wages didn't keep up with. this needs further research tho it's just an idea.

Lol what?

>Your problem is you think the govt is god.
i sure as hell don't.
>That's why you don't accept gold as money anymore.
no that's not it. but in a way this is an other nail in the coffin, because money is defined by it being legal tender. and legal tender is determined by the state. so a statist would say gold can't be money if it's not legal tender (certain bullions are but it's a joke).

i don't think gold is money because it doesn't act like money in the economy. at all. the world moved on to something objectively better and more useful. first paper then numbers on computers.

the only question remaining is who has control over these numbers on computers when and to what degree?

The greatest wealthiest country in world history was created under a gold standard.

And the economy is completely and utterly fucked right now because we aren't on a gold standard.

I'd rather have a tug of war between expansion and recessions that are based in reality where the free market works things out than have what we have now with 20 trillion in debt and everyone not having any savings

Gold is money
The fact that governments moved on from it proves that they are criminal
Not that gold is bad

an iou is a store of value

>Let's say I own 1 ounce of Gold.
>What is the IOU part of this?
the "I own 1 ounce of Gold" part altho it should be more formal like: "i solemnly swear to provide to the bearer of this token 1 ounce of gold or the equivalent in good or services at his request"

Dude.... the dollar was literally redeemable in gold. What are you not understanding about this? You used to be able to go to the bank and give the teller 20$ and you could have a gold ounce.

Obviously using gold and silver coins as payment is not efficient... which is why you have USD created which makes it easier to transact.... but that DOLLAR equaled GOLD