I realize that most of you are die-hard coiners, and won't believe anything bad said about your favorite scheme, but crypto is an inherently flawed system, and these flaws will be the downfall of anyone who goes all-in with their cons. These flaws include:
1. PUBLIC LEDGER
It is odd that people who take an anti-government and anti-establishment position would choose, as their response, a system where every purchase they make becomes public record. I think your average paranoid wouldn't want to use a payment method where everyone can just peak into their lives.
2. LACK OF REGULATION
The idea of a decentralized/deregulated system sounds great at first, but it really is a flaw in the system. A lack of regulation means a lack of protection against scammers and dishonest exchanges. It also means a lack of a process for conflict resolution; and is a lot of the reason why crypto will never be accepted by the mainstream population, who require at least a minimum amount of purchase and investment protection.
3. LACK OF MARKET MAKERS
A side-effect of the lack of regulation is the lack of entities known as "Market Makers". These entities stand as the buyer/seller of last resort. Their entire business consists of always being willing to buy and always being willing to sell. There existence is necessary for the smooth operation of financial markets. They provide price stability (lacking in crypto), and prevent wild price swings by stabilizing the supply and demand of a security.
If there were only three cryptos to choose from, an argument could be made that it is a viable substitute for existing currency. But when anyone with internet access can create their own coin, the market gets flooded with an endless supply of shitcoin. And every new coin that comes along degrades both the financial and mental value of the others.
5. ALMOST THE ENTIRE MARKET IS SPECULATION
When it first came out, the argument was made that bitcoin was going to be a substitute for other currencies and payment method. But instead, it has simply become a speculative instrument. Instead of bitcoin being generally used as a payment method, it is now mostly a trade; with transactions being mostly speculators.
6. LACK OF PRICE STABILITY
The argument was made that crypto would become a worldwide currency and payment method. But no one wants a currency that can lose half of its value in 20 days.
Cameron Nguyen
7. CRYPTO REQUIRES A STABLE INTERNET CONNECTION.
To base an entire payment system on the internet never failing is a horrible idea. If the electricity goes down; if the internet goes down; you have no way of conducting business. Cash (dollars) will work without electricity or the internet.
8. TRANSACTIONS PUT IN THE HANDS OF STRANGERS
The system where transactions are verified by strangers from who knows where is fine if you believe that people are basically good and have nothing but pure motives. But if you think humans are flawed, the idea that someone you don't know on the other side of the world has to verify your purchase of a cup of coffee is insane.
9. MINING IS TOO EXPENSIVE
I know that this isn't a problem with many of the coin, but in the case of Bitcoin the electricity necessary to verify transactions is insane. If bitcoin were to ever become used worldwide, it would require the entire planets electrical capacity just to function.
Aaron Campbell
>But when anyone with internet access can create their own coin
Anyone with a printer can print their own dollars too. And it's even easier than creating your own crypto!
>8. TRANSACTIONS PUT IN THE HANDS OF STRANGERS
Yeah...I don't think you understand how this works at all.
>1. PUBLIC LEDGER
This is a good point though.
William Scott
>But when anyone with internet access can create their own coin
Also it's funny to hear this argument from people who probably couldn't actually do it. You have to understand code at least a little bit and if you think anyone with an internet access knows how to do it you're retarded.
Currently there are something like 2800 different cryptocurrencies. Every new bullshit coin degrades the overall market by cheapening the mental value of the other coins, and by dividing the already small pool of potential investors.
Ian Russell
Yeah, and? I can quarantee my grandma wouldn't be able to figure that shit out. It's a bullshit argument period.
Nolan Peterson
You will never show pictures of dead birds again. If you do you will suffer a curse and your life will be wrong. You will know it.
To break the curse you will have to devote your life to helping pet birds.
Wyatt Jenkins
>Every new bullshit coin degrades the overall market by cheapening the mental value of the other coins, and by dividing the already small pool of potential investors.
Your grandma has nothing to do with it. And if you think the argument is bullshit, please try to explain why you think it is bullshit. But a non-answer answer won't cut it.
Julian Gomez
But it does. For example, why would anyone put money into "Free Coin" or "Dentacoin" or "Holo", "Pundi X", "ByteCoint", "ReddCoin", or any of the hundreds of other useless coin?
And when you see 2800 coin, nearly all of them who will have neither value nor widespread use, it casts doubt on any of the other coins that might have had potential if the market wasn't already flooded.
Leo Reyes
you completely misunderstand the point of cryptocurrency
Elijah Wood
fuck off you retard
James Brooks
There's a purpose other than fleecing dumb people out of their money?
Jackson Rivera
Again, another non-answer answer
Hunter White
>thinks regulation will protect them from scams
Charles Phillips
you got issues with what makes bitcoin great then don't fucking use it. trying to force crypto to conform to traditional commodity rules is pure insanity.
Daniel Collins
> For example, why would anyone put money into "Free Coin" or "Dentacoin" or "Holo", "Pundi X", "ByteCoint", "ReddCoin", or any of the hundreds of other useless coin?
They don't have to, that is the purpose of a free and open market. I really think you should revisit the fundamentals of what gives cryptocurrency use cases, people are busting your balls so hard because of some obvious glaring errors in your statements. This is the nicest anybody will be to you in this hellhole bud, take it or leave it.
Nathaniel Cruz
this, the market will discover what works and what doesn't we don't need fucking boomers to tell us. shitcoins and scams may seem extremely harmful but in truth each and every one of them is highly educational.
Gabriel Bell
>1. PUBLIC LEDGER Zero Knowledge Proofs
>2. LACK OF REGULATION Analytical Tools and KYC
>3. LACK OF MARKET MAKERS There is enough Market Makers out there
4. MARKET FLOODED WITH TOO MANY COIN Most of them are used for nothing, the useless ones will die out anyway. Use your brain to figure out which crypto is useful and which isn‘t. So not a Problem
5. ALMOST THE ENTIRE MARKET IS SPECULATION Its not, Bitcoin can only go up long term. See where it was 10 years ago and where it is now.
6. LACK OF PRICE STABILITY Chainlink solves that problem with their crypto to fiat oracle
7. CRYPTO REQUIRES A STABLE INTERNET CONNECTION Which most people in the first world have by now. As backup we could in theory also use solar powered satellites that act as nodes.
8. TRANSACTIONS PUT IN THE HANDS OF STRANGERS Blockchain is tamperproof read the basics noob
9. MINING IS TOO EXPENSIVE Not everywhere
Leo King
These are newb-level arguements, or already understood and accepted obvious basic facts about cryptocurrencies. You're not sharing anything new. It's like going to /o/ and saying, "DID YOU KNOW YOUR ICE EXHAUST IS TOXIC?" or "DID YOU KNOW HOW POLLUTING IT IS TO MANUFACTURE CARS?"
Nathan Brown
Are you presenting us with a new grand argument that Jow Forums has never seen the likes of? Really it just seems you're yelling into the void.
Liam Morris
>Zero Knowledge Proofs unimplemented >Analytical Tools and KYC because fraud is impossible >There is enough Market Makers out there no there isn't >Most of them are used for nothing, the useless ones will die out anyway. yup >Use your brain to figure out which crypto is useful and which isn‘t. brainlets provide the funding >Its not [speculation], Bitcoin can only go up long term. so does an interest bearing checking account >Chainlink solves that problem [price stability] with their crypto to fiat oracle doesn't seem solved >Which most people in the first world have by now [internet connection]. if you count phones. >As backup we could in theory also use solar powered satellites that act as nodes. could use abacus and horse riders too >Blockchain is tamperproof explain frequent hacks >9. MINING IS TOO EXPENSIVE >Not everywhere the environmental costs are borne everywhere
Asher Thompson
>8 posts by this ID nocoiner's increasing cognitive dissonance
Blake Richardson
imagine being this stupid
no, you can't print your own dollars. nobody would recognize them as such, that's just ink on paper that nobody fucking respects because it has no meaning and the real dollar is regulated, has recognized standards, etc etc etc.
which is precisely what you don't have with crypto. you don't have regulations, meaning anyone COULD put ink on paper and pass it off as money and that's what they've been doing to people that are foolish enough to believe it. And not just occasionally, but in such great abundance that they've overwhelmed the entire market which contains one or two more legitimate coins.
regulation is a feature, not a flaw.
Jack Martin
>meaning anyone COULD put ink on paper and pass it off as money no money is legal tender crypto is not money. if you try to pass it off as money you commit fraud. if you trade it for other currencies and commodities you done nothing wrong.
Caleb Brown
Scamcoins and shit alts definitely discredit the market.
You think how normies will think once their retarded altcoin from dec 2017 has lost 99,7% of its value in a few years and will never recover.
They will think it is a scam even if bitcorn were to reach new ath.
Jeremiah Edwards
>regulation is a feature, not a flaw. regulation is not a feature for crypto. crypto doesn't need it that's the fucking point. no monetary system works without regulation and central authority except for crpyto. it's evolution. or at least an attempt to evolution.
Anthony Walker
>They will think it is a scam even if bitcorn were to reach new ath. i'm pretty sure people will learn to differentiate. this is how humans work they see what strategies worked and what strategies not worked and learn from it.
Lincoln King
>But when anyone with internet access can create their own coin
My grandma can't do it and she has an internet access. Your argument is literally destroyed. I know this is difficult for a brainlet retard like you but try to keep up. Monkey.
But it is the lack of regulation that creates most of the problems. With regulation, consumers/investors would have protection if their exchanges walks off with their money or if a hacker breaks the system and steals it. Regulation would mean that the price of a coin is the same on every exchange. Regulation would open the markets to legitimate traders who won't touch unregulated securities.
Of course I'm replying. OP's have a duty to engage in their own thread. And "cognitive dissonance" is such a worn out phrase, I'm surprised anyone uses it anymore.
> there are enough market makers No there isn't. And they aren't functioning in their traditional role
And this is a valid point. There is only a small finite number of people who would ever put money into crypto. Once they are wiped out, they don't return to the market (they won't make the same mistake twice). Eventually the pool of investors drop to where we are now, with nothing but speculation.
Then how do you explain 2800 useless coins, and more coming each day? And how do you explain all of the people dumb enough to put money into a shitcoin that has no potential and no future?
Ayden Jackson
I was writing to the op
Cameron Wood
>But it is the lack of regulation that creates most of the problems. not true >With regulation, consumers/investors would have protection if their exchanges walks off with their money or if a hacker breaks the system and steals it. crypto is trying to tech you a lesson but you don't pay attention: centralized service == trust == bad > Regulation would mean that the price of a coin is the same on every exchange. wat? >Regulation would open the markets to legitimate traders who won't touch unregulated securities. that's their problem if there is a regulation that doesn't allow them to invest in unregulated assets i guess we need deregulation then.
Alexander Hughes
lol, imagine having such unwarranted confidence.
>anyone can print money no you can't, i told you why you can't, it's a point you seem to cede easily yet think it's a valid comparison even though you failed your initial claim.
I then went on to tell you why your claim failed and how the comparison actually ruins the point you're trying to make.
>comparison flew over your head it flew over your own head, you don't even understand what you tried to say.
Lincoln Gonzalez
But crypto is already making the slow conversion to a centralized service. The only difference is... this time the centralized service will beyond the law, the inspection, and the regulation of the people via the government.
And by this I mean... though mining can be theoretically done by anyone who wants to take the time, spend the money, and setup the equipment, we have already seen that the reality is that the only miners who will survive will be the large central operations with a lot of existing capital and infrastructure. So instead of millions of small miners churning away, the natural outcome of the system will be a few super-large miners who can afford the best equipment at a scale large enough to drown out everyone else.
And when that happens, you're backed to a centralized system; only one run by Russia and China and beyond the normal safeguards that other centralized service are forced to provide.
Isaac Edwards
>But crypto is already making the slow conversion to a centralized service. that's just in your head there is no reason for centralized crypto to exist it's pointless >large central operations you do realize pools are not single miners right? there could be thousands in a pool and they are free to switch pools regroup or disband not to mention hash power leasing means many company doesn't even own the hashpower it operates. point is you don't know shit. >And when that happens, you're backed to a centralized system when that happens you fork the coin to a new pow if you don't like the state of affairs. the market will take care of this on it's own it doesn't need boomers to fuck with it.
Samuel Brown
>wat?
Here's a page that will show you the "current" price of bitcoin at a variety of exchanges. In a normal regulated market, the price of bitcoin would be the same, no matter which exchange you were buying it from.
But because we don't have this, a good portion of bitcoin transactions is probably arbitrage. So instead of bitcoin having widespread usage from people using it to pay for retail transactions, practically the entire book is speculation, which simply moves them back and forth without accomplishing anything in the vast retail world.
dude have you ever used an exchange do you know how they work? you can't force a price on an exchange. if there is arbitrage you can be sure someone starts working it until it's no longer profitable hell there are bots doing it in great numbers automatically.
no regulator can tell an exchange what price to show that would make it all pointless.
Jose Peterson
If you think that individual miners, or even a pool of miners, can compete with a government entering the market you are nuts.
So what happens when China or Russia set up their farm, when the government doesn't care (for the moment) about short term profitability but only on controlling the mining market? Or when they give their government run mining operation access to free electricity and the best equipment to lock up the majority of mining functions?
And governments targeting industries is nothing new. Japan did it for decades, willing to sell at a loss if necessary if that's what it took for them to dominate an industry and wipe out the competition.
Your theories seem like a well meaning pipe dream, totally oblivious to the real darker world that is out there.
Jeremiah Smith
>lol, imagine having such unwarranted confidence.
Haha, fuck me. Literally right back at ya bro. You're at least funny but you should DEFINITELY leave the thinking to other people since you clearly don't have the capacity for it.
>So what happens when China or Russia set up their farm, when the government doesn't care (for the moment) about short term profitability but only on controlling the mining market? well i'm pretty sure other countries would enter the fray also. long term it would probably come out too every country owning a share of mining proportional to it's gdp.
Sebastian Anderson
On points 1 and 2: I agree. This is one reason why I am not personally bullish on crypto "currency." The currency application of blockchain is understandably the first idea that came to be, but ultimately blockchain is great for trusted, decentralized computational work, which has many applications. Which is why I am very bullish on projects where token value is tied to the usefulness of the particular application.
As for regulation, I think the SEC, for example, exists for a good reason, protecting people from scams and unscrupulous actors. Crypto has what I call an issue with physical enforcement. That is, its trustlessness only works for things directly subject to code and so blockchain can't really identify or enforce real world situations, like verifying that someone scammed someone else and forcing them to pay back the money and go to jail. Ultimately these require human actors with physical enforcement tools (guns). Currently that's government. However, there is potential in the more distant future for decentralized oracles who identify situations such as a scam, and ultimately a physical enforcement agency paid by smart contracts to regulate scammers, for one. The activities of such agencies would themselves be verified by decentralized oracles.
I can't speak to point 3 as it's really outside my personal area of expertise.
On point 4, I view the competition of thousands of projects as a positive. That is, we will not simply be saddled with the first project to come along in a particular application. History is filled with situations where imperfect tech or organizations become "too big to fail" because they were the first to be adopted en masse. MIDI, VHS, etc. And, as mentioned above, crypto is clearly valuable for varying and manifold computational applications, so I am happy that there are so many projects tackling different specialized areas of information processing. BAT, LINK, IEXEC, etc.
I agree abo
Easton Reed
CRYPTO IS A FUCKING SCAM, YOU FUCKING RETARDS. It's never going to recover to ATH or anywhere near it. It doesn't matter how much you mouth-breathing retards defend crypto on its technical merits, the fact remains no one's going to buy your fucking bags. Institutional investors aren't going to save you. They're not going to be stupid enough to put money into a black hole.
I agree about point 5 and 6, and believe that crypto having value based on fundamentals will require more widespread adoption (actual use) and dissemination of tokens (no more whales). However, speculative value is perfectly valid; people are irrational and many things that don't have any fundamentals or use value are great stores of value. Gold or art, for examples. Their speculative qualities arguably just make the goods' prices more volatile. However, for many projects this doesn't really affect their functionality. XRP can be $.30 or $10 but is still useful in its stated purpose as a medium of exchange for banks; it just takes more or less XRP depending on its price at the time of value transfer. This can be said of any crypto or token that has an application and is not just meant to be a base store of value.
As for point 7, this is not a good point. The internet has reached such a ubiquitousness that if it truly failed on a widespread scale that meant you had zero access to it at any point of sale, there are probably far greater problems at hand than your bitcoin not working. If it really failed in that way, you would not have access to your cash anyway. What do banks use to verify your balance when you want to make a withdrawal? What do ATMs use? The internet. With such importance of the internet infrastructure, we can take it for granted in this scenario. Besides, barring even such an extreme scenario, a localized failure of internet like a local business's card processing capability going out usually just means you as a customer go elsewhere. There are plenty of people who carry little cash and rely on the internet connectivity required for them to only carry debit/credit cards.
8. The point of decentralized consensus with rewards as well as computational applications of blockchain that involve "staking" tokens as collateral is meant to rule out bad actors. Your argument here could also be applied to any centralized entity.
Ayden Moore
9. POW is dumb but there are plenty of energy-sipping blockchain projects. I don't believe the future will accept the energy use of bitcoin.
Jaxon Morgan
>It's never going to recover to ATH or anywhere near it >implying this is the first ath and the first crash newfag be gone! >Institutional investors aren't going to save you. crypto is not for institutions. we don't need them that's the whole point. they are remnants of the old world.
Joshua Jenkins
pow is not just a validation scheme but also a distribution scheme. it's not dumb and no coin has to stick to it forever. however all other schemes are problematic they all take away more than what they provide to crypto.
Tyler Baker
>dude have you ever used an exchange do you know how they work? you can't force a price on an exchange. if there is arbitrage you can be sure someone starts working it until it's no longer profitable hell there are bots doing it in great numbers automatically. >no regulator can tell an exchange what price to show that would make it all pointless.
It's not about a regulator picking a price, it's about imperfectly shared information. If I am buying or selling a stock, I can look at the book to see what the bid's and ask's are. And because every broker has access to the same information, the price is the same whether you are buying it on Etrade, ScottTrade or anyone else. And while the price changes, and flows with the supply and demand, everyone still has access to the same buy and sell price.
But compare that to the crypto exchanges. Arbitrage in stocks is a very rare thing; but it's business as usual in the crypto exchanges. So, for example, see image (which is typical), an $87.55 difference in price between the two larger exchanges.
This is entirely a side effect of the lack of regulation.
>it's about imperfectly shared information dude the information is perfectly shared as it is online and public >If I am buying or selling a stock, I can look at the book to see what the bid's and ask's are same for crypto on every exchange you can see where the buy and sell orders are. >Arbitrage in stocks is a very rare thing; but it's business as usual in the crypto exchanges. that can only mean one thing, it's not profitable to jump on it that probably has to do with the frequency of trading if the arbitrage is small enough there is more risk than gain by trying to play it. >This is entirely a side effect of the lack of regulation. no it's how exchanges work. so long there is two exchanges with different user-base different liquidity different timezones there will be a difference in price. if crypto will move faster between exchanges say with ln instantaneously, arbitrage will greatly decrease same if the market cap grows and the price action becomes much more lazy.
Kayden Parker
> Your comments on point 7 I agree with you, of course, though you may have missed my overall meaning. There are a lot of people who are shilling crypto as an end of the world option, a safe have for "when" the USD collapses. But if that happened, the destruction of world infrastructure would be so total that crypto would fail early in the collapse.
PoW is dumb because it doesn't scale and vast difference in electricity cost between each country means only a handful of miners are able to operate profitably, which leads to centralization.
Because PoW coins requires large scale operations in order be profitable, price crashes in the market can cause a lot of disruption. Miners would shutdown. This news would further fuel the panic selling. There's no stability in coins where fees are dependent on the profitability.
Zachary Taylor
read my post this time and stop for a second to think please!
Jaxon Smith
>no it's how exchanges work. so long there is two exchanges with different user-base different liquidity different timezones...
But that's now how regulated markets work. For example, NYSE is open (regular hours) from 9:30 AM to 4:00 PM. When it is open, no matter what the time zone around the world, investors have access to that market.
And because information is universally shared, where bids/asks/last price are known to all, the price you can buy/sell at is the same whether you are trading in new york or Indian.
And it is this universality of consistent pricing that gives the markets one of the strengths.
Bitcoin should have a value. And that value should be the same whether you are trading from one side of the world or the other. That value will change over time (and change a lot since there aren't regulated market makers), but the price should be the same at the same instant of time in all exchanges.
Mason Rogers
1) i can't trade on the nyse i'm absolutely sure of this, but i can trade on bitfinex, bitmex, coinbase, kraken, etc... 2) it's beside the point why bother typing it out. 3) there is nothing universal about prices, if the market is slow then there is time for safe arbitrage that will remove the inefficiency in the system to the point where arbitrage no longer exists or worth it. 4) bitcoins value is evaluated by each and every one that trades it constantly. no regulation can fuck with that. if the price of bitcoin is $2800 and i think it's only worth $2500 i will market sell pushing the price down and wait to rebuy at $2500. when millions of people do this it's called market price discovery. and it's entirely possible that people on 2 exchanges are in a disagreement. and if that presents arbitrage opportunity then there will be people playing it until it goes away. that's trading in a nutshell.
you are stupid if you think stock or any commodity exchanges work differently.
Juan Watson
>Everything that is Wrong with Crypto BTC is going down except up.
You disagree? If literally everything else was the same except BTC was $30k and rising, mainstream media would be FLOODED with crypto. This board would be booming. Everyone would still be talking about it.
Price is literally the only thing that matters.
Charles Ward
*instead of
Isaiah Perez
i'm not sure how is that a good thing long term. markets have booms and busts, in a bust bad business is contra selected and dies off. when you fuck with the cycle bad business stays alive. you can see this happening with stocks. crypto needs to cool the fuck off from time to time to get the focus away from speculation back to technology. but the speculation is important also because it drives early adoption and also possibly innovation.
Connor Scott
BTC below 1k would shake out a whole lot of shit. The difference in market sentiment between 6 and 4k was not actually major, but you can really feel the heat below 4k. Twitter "gurus" are all calling for 1k, but they will be gone if it actually happens.
Elijah Brown
yeah this is not my first rodeo i have been following btc since 2010. i remember wanting to buy 100 btc for $10 and been absolutely devastated by the fees and delay involving wiring to mtgox. btc held the electric cost it was used to mine it pretty evenly back then and i seen no reason to change it. you could say btc was backed by electricity back then perfectly. you either had free electricity and then you could invest in mining equipment or had equipment for reasons and made near zero sum on electricity.
at that time i didn't seen it going to $3k ever. so after a while i kinda weened off of buying and tried to come up with schemes that allowed me to mine it at profit. but all i could come up was in the gray area or outright criminal.
since that i have bought and sold over the years smaller amounts been all over the spectrum of the meme chart many times. so people saying bitcoin is gonna die just makes me so fucking tired. i'm not even mad just exhausted.
Chase Wright
>15 posts by this ID worried nocoiner's cognitive dissonance increases
Mason James
Again, and since you ignored it the first time I will say it again...
... etiquette requires that if you start a thread, you engage those who reply and don't abandon the thread.
And I'm pretty sure that if I posted and went away, you would have followed up with > 1 post by this ID
Owen Lee
>BTC below 1k would shake out a whole lot of shit The problem is this whole mindset. SOMETHING IS NOT A CURRENCY IF IT LOSES AND GAINS 80%+ OF ITS VALUE EVERY FEW YEARS. Bitcoin and by extension all cryptocurrencies are just the most successful online gambling ventures the world has ever seen.
What's the best case scenario? Let's say in 3 years, crypto starts to moon again, because they figure out a new pump scheme like they did with Tether in the 2017 bubble. Okay, what are you left with? It's 2021 or 2022 and guess what? We're right back to where we started. It's 2022, and Bitcoin is worth $3000 again.
There's only so many times this con can work. Crypto had a level of exposure in 2017/2018 that it never had in the past. If you ever get suckers to buy these shitcoins again, it will take years at least to recharge for the next round of suckers.
Bagholders will say anything to deny the reality of the situation.
Ryder Wright
Them and I notice there are a lot of Bitcoin Stinky Vindaloo shills on here these days too
Aaron Morgan
It also presents a major problem for companies. In the normal business cycle, companies use sales to buy the raw material for future sales, to pay their employees, and to pay off debt.
No one in their right mind would deal STRICTLY with crypto, because they can't afford to have their wealth cut in half while they are waiting for delivery of their raw material.
At best, you have companies who will accept crypto as payment, but they immediately convert it back into real money (dollars, euro) right after the transaction.
So, short of regulation and price stability, crypto will never be more than a transport mechanism between hard currencies; which is a far cry from the pipe dream people were sold about crypto taking over the world.
Daniel Gray
>>real money You mean currency
You're entire arguement is waged against a new venture. BTC is 8 years young. It took automobiles, tv's, landlines, cellphones, the internet how long to become prevalent? The expectation being put on crypto at this point is still too much.
Landon Wood
Altcoins are a commodity which some vendors are willing to accept in lieu of fiat currency but that choice does not de facto make an altcoin currency. The arguments that altcoins are bad because they do not and probably will not conform to the things associated with fiat currency designed to keep its value stable aren't really arguments, they're comments. Until governments of note see value in internally using altcoin they will continue to treat it as a phenomenon and not a serious asset. And once they do choose to use it they will necessarily regulate it to keep its value stable. Longterm its benefits are outweighed by how intensely volatile its value has been over the last five years with no real sign of that tapering off. Invest in it all you like but don't expect BTC or ETH to become the legitimate heir to the dollar or the pound, not without a lot of changes to those two coins. >crypto is useless In the most literal sense, a commodity with no real-world utility IS useless. People eat pork bellies and build skyscrapers out of steel. What coiners hold are fundamentally baseball cards or pogs where the value is extrinsic. The kinds of problems ETH as a virtual machine claims to solve don't exist and CryptoKitties proved it can't even handle a pokemon simulation. I'm not necessarily in agreement with OP but at least know what you put your (actual) money into.
Benjamin Wilson
>BTC is 8 years young. Saturn and Amazon were founded on the basis of becoming profitable within 60 months, not coincidentally the same time a car loan's amortized over. Both did turn profits and became self-sustaining. In that same 5 years BTC hasn't disrupted anything or become accepted by more than a few internet businesses, and even 3 years later it has yet to. What it has done is proven that deeper pocketed big fish can easily pump and dump tanking its value with little or nothing you or I can do about it, meaning all those beliefs about it being the little guy's money outside the system were proven false.
Adrian Murphy
The other technologies you mentioned took off much faster than Bitcoin ever has.
The US government has no reason to use any of the existing coin internally, and a lot of reason not to.
If they (or any other large organization) decide to adopt parts of blockchain, they will do so without coins, and it will work much better.
>The other technologies you mentioned took off much faster than Bitcoin ever has. Again, it's reasonable to expect something to come to fruition within 60 months. BTC being decentralized also meant it had no product managers aggressively promoting its use and expected adoption to happen because it was 'right' without a good precedent of that to follow. >decide to adopt parts of blockchain, they will do so without coins I suspect it will be adopted, refined, and then eventually replaced by something simpler with less overhead, most likely within our lifetimes. Not bashing on blockchain, this is just how things tend to happen. Also, there need to be more restraints on a system where a rogue user has the ability to embed illegal content (e.g. classified information) into a permanent ledger shared by all its users.
Austin King
it's all about market cap once btc has a significant market cap the price will be more stable. it if has golds market cap it will have golds volatility.
Cooper Allen
THE ONLY MINDSET YOU SHOULD HAVE IS TO CHASE THE PUMP. JUST BUY AND SELL. DO NOT HODL.
Xavier Carter
Amazon bled money for years until it pivoted to what it is today. Being an online bookstore was not the future. Comparing an online store to a new method of transaction verification is quite naive. Show me a market where deep pockets can't easily pump and dump. It's considered the little guys money because you don't need a bank to have it. No social number, no physical address. I won't disagree that btc has since been hijacked and ruined, which is why it hasn't progressed. The idea that those mining would have the chains best interest as priority was naive.
Jaxson Ward
>Also, there need to be more restraints on a system where a rogue user has the ability to embed illegal content (e.g. classified information) into a permanent ledger shared by all its users. well so far you can only insert a few bytes on btc blockchain urls mostly easily taken down on the server side or at dns level. but craig imagines there will be no limit to the amount of data to store permanently on the blockchain. i guess that will make cp pretty censorship resistant for that 3-4 days before public outrage and governments censorship forced on isp level rolls it up.
Adrian Butler
Those technologies weren't taking on the financial sector, but instead helped those with money make more.
Oliver Thompson
>In the most literal sense, a commodity with no real-world utility IS useless. but that's bullshit because a censorship resistant unconfiscateable currency based on a distributed trustless unauthorized public ledger has inherent value as a medium of exchange escape vehicle of wealth and in the future more stable store of value than fiat.
Bentley Nelson
This is the best advice. Commitment is suicide.
Charles Adams
>has inherent value Intrinsic value, not inherent. "I want this because I'm a libertarian" is not comparable to "it's necessary in order to feed, build, clothe or be a precious metal used in industry" where all of those are in physically limited supply. That's intrinsic value.
Jose Jackson
ALL THE TECH AND PHILOSPHIZING ARE USELESS. 99.9999% OF PPL ARE BUYING BCZ THE MOMENTUM IS UP. 100% CORRELATION. JUST BUY AND SELL AT PROFIT
Cooper Thomas
Almost totally agreed.
No electricity means anyway no shopping and no banking. Your mileage may vary, but only the big names (banks and large stores) have failsafe systems and generators and can guarantee transactions.
Any system has to have a reliable "network" (public internet is not) and a reliable last resort buyer.
If everyone on the Earth made 100 transactions/day, you'd have ~300 trillion transactions/year. Assuming two kilobytes / transaction, it would sum up to ~600,000 petabyte/year. I guess in a few decades this could be sustainable even at home - just like people today can afford 200 gigs of diskspace while in early 1990's a very few barely could afford 200 megs.
Benjamin Evans
This. Profit but do not internally believe in the value of the thing you are buying and selling since it doesn't exist, doesn't really do anything, and never can.
Josiah Thomas
no crypto has no intrinsic value but it has inherent value coming from utility and special properties that make it useful. price has nothing to do with these properties btc could be 1 cents or 1 billion it could do the same exact thing.
Justin Reyes
Not true. Market cap in crypto is a myth and is a function of it's over-supply.
For example, if I go to one of the free websites and create XYZ coin with a population of 100 billion, then talk a friend into buying 1 coin for $10, I suddenly have a "market cap" of $1 trillion. Does that mean that there is a trillion dollars of value out there?
Nope. Market cap is simply a reflection of the total value IF every one could be sold at the current price. But if they were all sold, you wouldn't get the current price. The same thing holds true for stocks.
Gold, on the other hand, has inherent wealth because it IS inherent wealth.
Kayden Walker
>Market cap in crypto is a myth and is a function of it's over-supply. that makes no sense whatsoever try again! market cap is market cap. we all know what it means. there is a direct correlation between market cap of btc and it's adoption and widespread adoption is what gives the price stability. >Gold, on the other hand, has inherent wealth because it IS inherent wealth. no it's just an element in the periodic table a fucking number useless in itself.
Nolan Murphy
You one of these "rules are for fools" dudes eh?
Good bles u
Caleb Richardson
>You one of these "rules are for fools" dudes eh? no i'm just saying crypto is the anti-thesis to traditional financial systems (which are built around central authority and trust) and it makes no sense to try fit it into that crap might as well throw it to the garbage can. crypto needs no regulation because it doesn't need an unbroken chain of trust control and authority to work. traditional assets and securities do need all that.
Bentley Taylor
bravo
Alexander Hernandez
Lol being allcaps doesn't make it true
Dominic Torres
Volatility is the easiest thing to solve in crypto. It's literally trivial at this point, there are multiple existing solutions and it bothers no one who has researched seriously
Elijah Martinez
oh and by the way if you do build traditional layers on top of crypto like futures markets (not the crypto based smart contract kind, but the "paper" contract kind) you also need legislation for that shitshow not the underlying asset tho. that doesn't need regulators any more than gold atoms do need regulators to be gold atoms.
traditional markets are traditional markets and crypto is crypto. you have to know where to draw the line! now asset backed cryptos and icos are the interesting thing. because technically they are cryptos but they are also securities. funny stuff. i would not bat an eye if they banned them.
Brandon Hill
the problem is that nocoiners haven't found the coin that they find appealing to use. so, the problem is that we don't have enough innovation in this space. in short, this is still just the beginning.
Josiah Bennett
i would say there is plenty of innovation but it's uncooperative. like some people say everyone wants to "print money" make wealth up (like it happened with bitcoin "premine") with his computer code, everyone is chasing that dragon. innovative technology is just a means to that end.
competition is good for innovation if you got 5-7 competing altcoins that try to be gen2 crypto that's good everyone can keep track of which differs from the other in what regard which fails and triumphs in what area. but when you got 2000 and a 1000 more every year... this is fucking bullshit. this is when you say fuck your shitcoin btc may not be perfect but let's just try using it before we reinvent the wheel!
Easton White
> trivial.
A 48% drop in 31 days might not be most people's definition of trivial.
Thomas Perry
>innovative technology is just a means to that end. end of course the worst is most of it is vaporware and memes not actual working tech. so there is that.
Gavin Lewis
and OP will vanish when we exit the bear market because he will die not understanding a single thing about disruptive innovation
Luke Ortiz
he doesn't even understands the very basics of crypto or money for that matter. yet he felt compelled to make this fucking thread.
