Tax UK

Agreed. That's fucked.

You can pay your taxes with niggercash this year

Fucking dumb fags. Read. It says if it amounts to significant trades only then it will be a problems for big trades.

If you hodle and trade here and there, don't worry

>relies on self reporting income which is generated entirely anonymously
>thinks anyone gives a shit

So basically capital gains tax unless trading extensively

you're a child so i'll break it down for you pea sized brain.

If you're making frequent daily trades, you'll be taxed along the lines of income tax.

If it's infrequent trades, then crypto to crypto trades will be charged capital gains tax.

I've taken a picture for you to make this comprehensible.

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the blockchain is easy to viewv and remember all the KYC shit you've given to exchanges?

For both these reasons, if they wanted to chase people up, they'd easily be able to catch those evading tax.

good luck viewing my monero transactions lol

it's all good baby babeh

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Not if you don't shill for them (i.e airdrops just randomly put into your wallet, like Liquid exchange gives for Qash holders).

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It says capital gains tax on all crypto trades

I'm in the UK, the £11000 gains is tax free per year when you cash out right?

Also how does the day trading altcoins and bitcoin go about? That would make things complicated

Hire an accountant, they're not even that expensive and saves yourself a MAJOR headache.

I have over 100 trades and most of them are gone and I don't even remember. Losses and gains, how am I going to work this out?

I don't give a toss what they say. It's my money and noone tells me what to do with my money.

imagine thinking you owe tax to a government because you got into crypto early and have massive wealth in crypto, but have yet to cash out anything into fiat.

no government has any jusistriction on gains made by mining bitcoin and then buying ether with bitcoin

where'd you buy your monero user? Was it an exchange? Does that exchange have your KYC details?

Good job, user.

same issue user, fuck all my old trades, there were no rules before, but from now on try and keep track and avoid over trading. just accumulate to proper tokens.

But all your trade history is on the exchange. You can download it to .CSV files. A good accountant who specialises in trading and/or crypto won't be at all phased by 100 trades...

what monero? i seem to have suddenly lost the private key

Not if there's a lot on say decentralised exchanges like etherdelta. I have well over 500 or more trades across exchanges they have my details and some that don't. I tried piecing it together but there's huge gaps where there's no info or not the right info even though I noted down roughly what I was doing.

I just reviewed the information and frankly it's pretty ambiguous for this scenario. The basic guidelines don't really account for anything outside direct fiat to crypto then back to fiat transactions.

HMRC seem to care most about:

>If you cash out any crypto, what is your PnL based on the initial investment. Pay tax on the profit.
>If you spend £500 on BTC and sell half for £750, then the profit is calculated as 750 - 250 = 500. If you sell the other half you deduct 250 from the sale value to calculate the profit you must pay further tax on.
>If you spend £250 on BTC and then spend another £250 on BTC that you end up day trading like a madman...how the hell do you figure out the PnL? It seems you just prorata the PnL, so if your portfolio is £500 from the first £250 buy and £1000 from the day trading (i.e. total £1,500), if you cash out half then you can only deduct half of your initial investment for the purposes of tax calculation.

I don't see how, if and when good crypto bank solutions come to market with actual plastic cards/NFC capabilities to instantly spend crypto, unless you go out and buy mega expensive stuff all at once, how are they ever gonna know? All my money would be travel, nice food, and home improvements (silver spoon fag here set to inherit smallholding in France which I would happily live in forever). I got a decent paying job so I could explain away a nice 80k or so car. None of my gains in this situation would touch fiat or bank accounts. How would it be possible to link this to me?

Yeah, £11,700

But they've introduced a pooling system to consider to make things more complicated.

All buys in the same crypto counts as 1 individual pool to calculate gains / losses in when you sell. Unless you sell some and buy back within 30 days.

Then the freshly bought crypto gets put into a new pool where you calculate separately.

Trading is vague, but it seems to suggest only high volume trading will count as income tax. probably daily or something as a guess.

Fair play. I'm fairly normie with my trades, have a fair few (in the hundreds) but always enter through normiebase, then trade on either Binance, Bittrex or KuCoin, so could pull the data if I really needed to.

Anyone go through shape shift or changelly?

Yeah but you still pay tax. It’s capital gains

Just keep below the allowance limit and get your other money from elsewhere.

You must be new here

>I have over 100 trades
Holy shit, that's so many! You're fucked, user. You might need to, like, use basic spreadsheet software that everyone has known how to use for the last 20 years to be able to deal with that massive amount of data!

>Initial "trade". Buy LTC on coinbase with GBP, due to low transaction costs. Send to exchange. Sell for USDT. Use USDT to buy shitcoin ABC.
>Later, sell ABC for USDT, use USDT to buy LTC and send to coinbase to convert back into GBP

The only real way of gauging PnL is the start and end value of the GBP.

You can't value ABC since it's valued in USDT which itself isn't perfectly fixed to USD which itself isn't fixed to GBP. You can't value in LTC because it's only being used as a "cheap" way of getting funds onto the exchange you want to use.

It's a fucking mess.

So now you owe tax on the gains you made getting into monero that the exchange has your info on + lost your coins “lost”

Right, but that's only on profits over £11,700 taken out in a tax year. No biggie.

Literally laughed out loud because that’s exactly what happened. Glad I haven’t cashed out yet.

>implying anyone has made more profit than the capital gains allowance

Basically, if HMRC want me to pay tax in GBP and not in some shitcoin I have, then they can fucking wait until I have the money in the form of GBP to pay them.

What is crypto? What is monero? What are coins? Please stop selling me your bullshit.

so if I just cash out £11700 or under a year I won't need to do anything right?

yeah it is a fucking mess really. If you end up making it in crypto, worse case you could just take out £11,600 profits a year and leave the rest in a legit stablecoin. Don't even have to bother declaring it then i'm pretty sure.

Then repeat until you've cashed out. Unless you need more, then gotta deal wit it

Judge “well it looks like you made taxable gains last year according to this exchange as well as your IP according to your ISP. Under felony of perjury is any of the above false?”

Smart

You Brit fags have a nice law there at 11k.

£12,000 next year boys. Buy a nintendo switch with that extra £300.

Yeah but they can freeze your bank assets. They’ll break you

pretty gud
noice

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^ another bong here also very interested if someone can concur

Winner winner chicken dinner. If you're married you can also use your spouses allowance as well

Wheres my homies who want the other tax savings for a couple too

This very clearly isnt possible based on the guidelines, you would be liable for all of the tax on the sell to USDT during the year in which you sell to it

>So now you owe tax on the gains you made getting into monero that the exchange has your info on

thats not how capital gains tax works...

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22 y/o uni fag here

I have cashed out 10k this year. Not cashing out anymore until april so i stay under the 11k limit and dont have taxfags on my ass

There's no way ill ever in my life report crypto-crypto trades. literally doesnt even matter, binance aren't going to give them my info

i will pay capital gains in and out of coinbase if i ever need to though, which is fine i guess

you're clearly an americuck

Quit work for one year, CGT drops to 10% right? Then cash out your big time money?

alternatively my plan is make an overseas account in Cayman or some other tax haven with no reciprocal agreement with the U.K.

Then attach an international AMEX.

Fuck tax

Fuck that's right. if you "profit" over £11,700 when you swap it for the stablecoin, that would count as a chargeable disposal.

"What consititutes a disposal:
exchanging cryptoassets for a different type of crypto asset"

so yeah that wouldn't work. every single crypto - crypto swap along the process to get in or out back to fiat counts as part of your profit / loss.

everything in crypto
>24 seed word.
>one way ticket out shitty UK.

This

And especially this

based and redpilled

Why do you live in the UK? Pay stupid taxes?
Why Dnt you move to a tax free country?
Is so easy to do, and cheap.

What happens in the following scenario:

>buy 20k of alt with 1btc (transaction 1)
>one year later
> 20k of alt is now worth 10btc
>convert all 20k alt to btc (transaction 2)

> convert 10btc to £. (transaction 3)

I have to pay taxes on all 3 transactions?

I think it should only be on transaction 3

Hahahahahahahaha. So they could airdrop us something, inflate the price to something high and fake and make you pay tax on it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Get fucked.

Yes all 3, but transaction 3 would be little or no tax if the price you buy BTC for is the same you sell for as no capital gain.

>use full £11,700 Capital Gains Allowance
>send crypto to gf and get her to cash out £11,700 cap gains allowance
>send crypto to both parents get them to cash out their unused £11,700 cap gains allowance
>sent crypto to sister and ger her to cash out her £11,700 cap gains allowance

>if I want to cash out large amounts at once
>sent crypto to gf's family in Eastern Europe (Baltic states)
>they cash out into Euros and pay flat rate 9% tax which goes to supporting an all white nation rather than funding niglet gibs
>they transfer Euros into my grills Euro bank account in her home country
>no tax on gifts between parents and children in her country
>she wires Euros to my UK bank account
>no taxes on gifts between spouses in UK

Fuck HMRC

yeah but no. neither of those are gonna work.

im not paying taxes on each of my thousand fucking trades. fuck hmrc. I'll pay CGT on the bulk profit I make when I cash out and thats it. they can suck my dick

How will they not work?

My other half isn't domiciled here for taxes. I am also a dual-Irish British citizen so if taxes started knocking I'd just literally go and move overseas in a second while all you cucks get stuck in a post-Brexit dystopian nightmare.

Also another method I thought of that might extend your allowance a bit:

Buy gold or silver sovereign coins and bullion directly with crypto. You don't even need to take physical delivery just buy vault bullion on account which you can easily liquidate if you need fiat.

Sovereign bullion is exempt from capital gains tax.

What he says is literally legal, you can read so on the gov website.

When you buy gold that counts as a disposal

>tfw have kept a rigorous record of every crypto transaction since starting trading in May 17, 500+ trades
>earned less than £45k in 2017 tax year so only have to pay 10% tax
>paid tax in full last week
>have £20k in losses this year to offset future gains
>still have 100k link portfolio, 6x from initial investment
>will never have problems with hmrc in future when cashing out as all my trades are disclosed in full to them

Is there a more comfy feeling in the world?

Yep anything under that £11k you don't even need to declare it.

I cashed out £10k this year and legaly didn't need to declare shit. (Ihave more in crypto but I'm not counting it as real until I cash out so I'm just gonna do 11k a year for the next few years).

After reading the article I'm still a little unsure how they define trading though. But they dont' seem to know how to define it either so I'm gonna play ignorant, stick to my capital gains theory and pray that they don't try to investigate me.

I'm not on a high income from my job so I doubt I'd be flagged by HMRC They should have bigger fish to catch.

Amen

>tfw have kept a rigorous record of every crypto transaction since starting trading in May 17

Gay

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literally nothing has changed except for clarification that capital gains will be payable on crypto-crypto trades

although every accountant I talked to said to do this anyway

the "trading" rule has always been there for income tax, the same rule applies for the stock market

to be classified as a "trader" for HMRC you are talking:

- taking your main source of income from trading
- not having a job in the real world i.e. relying on trading
- conducting tens of thousands of trades in a sophisticated nature
- trading with other people's money as a fund

I think it's safe to say no one here would be classified as a professional trader for HMRC purposes and I'm sure you could argue the fuck out of it if you were ever accused

I think they would ask where the crypto sold would come from, which is fine for your spouse as you can use her CGT limit, but not your parents.

someone explain to me, is this possible?

Exactly this. You will need to be registered as an actual trader too if you want to go through that which is not worth it anyway you look at it.

Personally, I'm going to wait for a few years until crypto becomes mainstream and you can buy houses with BTC

Someone explain for a brainlet?

Before, you could do whatever you wanted, only paid tax on the cash out back to GBP.

£3000 in, do a thousand trades in a year, is now worth 30000$, only pay tax on the 3k to 30000$

Now, you have to pay tax on every single trade?

There's no 'before'. This has always been the case.

HMRC can retroactively investigate right back to the point where 99.99% of Jow Forums users got involved in crypto, and a lot of people are going to get cucked

I wagecuck for living anyway so I'm comfortable staying below the yearly allowance.

Not even trying to dodge them, just can't be assed with taxes and accountants and shit.

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5 year rule, don't trade or cash anything out til 2023 when you're a millionaire

wat? that's not a thing in the UK

if more countries start doing this, exchanges are going to have to start doing the taxes automatically otherwise normies will stay out of crypto forever

I cashed out 28k GBP in January, and had no problems, just paid capital gains on the initial and then back to GBP. not all the trades.

Why cant i do that again?

ब्लॉकचेन पर एक विष्णु है।

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HMRC only expect you to keep 5 years of accounts

Keep the lube handy for when the taxman comes knocking at any point in the next 7 years

Well enjoy prison for Tax evasion then faggot!!