Can someone explain why this is so popular on biz? When I was at hs there was pretty much only one reason you didn't go, you weren't smart enough.
Now at 27 there is a very, very clear difference in success between the people who went and those which didn't. There are a few "successful" people who didn't go, but it's 10 percent tops Vs 50 percent for the college grads.
Data on the internet agrees. So why does Jow Forums shit on it so much?
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Because dumb people here went to college for dumb shit like gender studies and can't get a job.
Most people here are autists, and autists study the useful subjects like math
because it has a shit return on investment. your graph includes people who got into the job market with their degrees counting all the way from the 50s or 60s. show me the graph where you filter the data showing only people under 30 years old.
You're literally just making shit up. Have you got any evidence to support your view cause even if you went back 40 years in that graph it pays itself off almost immediately
are you fucking retarded mate
>why does Jow Forums shit on it so much?
Ignores cost. When thirty percent of your $1000k goes to debt maintenance over a twenty year span, it doesn't look so great.
It's difficult to quantify the value of education, for all we know the graph you are showing could be a proxy-graph for earnings versus IQ.
I can't find a graph showing people under 30. Cause you haven't got one either, you have to go off the data available, which shows it pays itself off in a few years and makes up for lost earnings in under 10
The average debt is 37k. The average earnings difference means this is paid off in a few years.
How could you even think it's 30k a year for anymore than a few years? This is just completely out of touch with reality
I have a GED and make six figures selling cars at a big ass dealership. I'm just good at being manipulative. Fuck regular office jobs-- plus I make my own schedule and borrow whatever fuckin car I want. It's great.
>pay off in a few years
It's closer to $40k.
You seem to believe things like food and shelter and transportation are free in that time. You may be carrying an auto loan of a similar about in the same time, for instance.
Salary is a growth curve, not $1k a week off the bat.
Your average also aggregates in such a way that one doctor and lawyer covers twenty unemployed lit majors.
Let's just rephrase it
Average earnings difference from op pic= 550
Over lifetime working for 50 years = 1.4 MILLION
college could literally be 1 million dollars and on average it would pay itself off. No amount of mental gymnastics can change this
Why would i go to a meme school studying a meme degree accumulating debt, when i can work part time, do drugs all day, shitpost on Jow Forums and throw all my earnings into crypto and be up 1000x on collegecucks in 10 yrs?
In general it's brainlet cope. No one ever presents any facts supporting the view and obviously irl there is generally a very noticeable difference.
it literally doesnt matter what you want to do even if you want to kill yourself like the guy from into the wild did
Because most people here are americans. I have the luck of going to college where my tuition is about what I earn in 45 days. God bless subsidized education and healthcare.
>being average
is the real meme right there
if you're going to wagecuck you should go to a top college and get hired for 100k/y starting as a san francisco cs major or new york lawyer
else skip college and build your own business
you have to be batshit retarded to strive for "average". average won't get you real love, average won't give you the financial security to provide for your family and build intergenerational wealth, average won't make you happy
your time is limited. pick a life you're passionate about and be excellent at it
>Actually thinking that poor people pay for top 20 university educations.
If they want you there, they'll pony up the money--their endowments+donations are huge and money is specifically set aside for these students. If you didn't get them to pay you to get an education then you did it wrong.
highly doubt the incels here did gender studies. maybe medieval studies to add some flavor to their d&d campaigns
college isn't for everyone, successful people got to college doesn't mean college makes someone successful.
>When I was at hs there was pretty much only one reason you didn't go, you weren't smart enough.
That hasn't been a limiting factor for a while.
>useful subjects
>math
Not sure he knows what he's saying here...
I like how you're citing the mythical propaganda that colleges use to dupe idiots into thinking they can't/won't be successful unless they spend another 4+ years being indoctrinated with leftism.
Where's the chart that shows the truth - that people who are independently successful did so without "education", and your only aspiration in life is to get a job then why are you on /biz?
>When I was at hs there was pretty much only one reason you didn't go, you weren't smart enough.
This is low tier bait
>discount that 40k as an opportunity cost
>extra 4 or 5 years of work saving & investing
Can tell you went to college user, but one for poor goy :)
>go to college
>earn good money
>your socialist cuntry taxes the fuck out of your earnings
>everyones a cuck cos youre a fucktard living in a cuck socialist country
Kys
Cringe
The only other thing it's down to is your parents class cause middle-class and above will be absolutely ruthless in getting their kids to the best college possible Vs lower class who don't care about it.
Apart from this it is clearly down to intelligence. Pretty much everyone in the advanced classes went where I was and very few with awful GPAs/sats went.
Because a lot of amerimutts here are barely average and end up being buttfucked by loans that they can’t pay off since they are so mediocre, and they cope by spamming muh trades on Jow Forums. I only pay 150€ per year to go to the top university of my country that will guarantee me an uber comfy job when I finish my studies.
I'm not against college but realistically 90% of the people in college shouldn't be going to college, they should be trying to get work experience instead of tripping themselves up trying to study something useless that most employers don't care about, in some oversaturated field like "Psychology" or some other massive waste of time and money.
I tried college when I was younger and it took me til my mid 20's to just throw in the towel and tell myself I'm not college material. I ended up just getting a job that I like and I work from home and travel the world doing it, and learning an actual skill that no college can teach.
Higher education is in a bubble bigger than the 2017 bitcoin bubble. If you can't see that the cost of higher education is enormously overvalued, you are a fucking retard. Don't give me the shit about "muh government grants and scholarships". Somebody is paying an astronomical sum of money for every warm piece of flesh sitting in a college classroom, rotting their brains from the inside out with 1% knowledge and wisdom and 99% fluff, propaganda and indoctrination. At what point do people realize you can learn anything from home using google, youtube etc for free and faster than a college? Colleges are becoming more useless yet more expensive. Something is going to give sooner rather than later.
>college is a bad investment
I got paid for going to University. Not my problem if you're living in a shit country.
Irrelevant. Now you are paying out the ass in taxes to support the new students studying dumb shit. The cycle continues. You're paying for it in the end regardless of how "free" it is in your country unless you just never get a job.
Even if it was free it would pay itself back massively to the government. See If 20 percent of that was taxed it would be on average 300k post graduate
Learn basic economics. What's your net worth kiddo?
250k at 21. Oh yeah I read at Oxford aswell.
What about you ;)
No shit if you take the sum of all college graduates and average out their pay vs. people who didn't go, you'll see a higher trend. That isn't my point. My point is that some small percentage of college graduates carry that statistic and inflate the average, while ignoring all the people who got fucked over by college (too dumb, picked the wrong subject, wrong school, overpaid, unmanagable debt level, so on).
If you hit a home run in college by picking the right subject, the right school, don't take on too much debt, you'll be fine, but that's not the average person that actually goes to college.
One thing that graph doesn't even mention is how much debt people have to pay every month because of their degree, the people who fucked up have to pay student loan debt on a degree that got them a shitty job (if any at all). You'll see them have maybe a slightly higher than average take home pay but what isn't mentioned is the high debt loads they carry. I wonder how that graph might get adjusted if you take into consideration how much monthly debt payments the average person has.
Plenty more than that at 19 you little fagboy. What stocks are you in? Or do you just speculate the shitcoin markets like a kid?
That graph shows the median your absolute fucking retard. This is unironically why everyone looks down on people who didn't go or graduate, they're fucking retarded 90 percent of the time.
college is just like anything else in late capitalism, for the underclass it is largely a lottery system for lifetime stability that is designed to imprison the losers to a lifetime of slavery. for the aristocracy, it's a social club for scion's to bump bows and form relationships, not unlike the practice of marrying princes and princess together as a sign of interclass and intradominion loyalty.
at least with the actual lottery you're not burdened by the illusion of agency defining your outcomes.
Oh boy we got a real life brainlet here. Maybe in a couple more semesters you'll learn what net cost means. In other words, it's not what you make, it's what you keep. Doctors, lawyers, and MIT graduates inflate that figure. Cut out the top earning college graduates and that graph is much closer to the "some college" line.
My entire fucking argument is that 90% of people shouldn't go to college, not EVERYBODY shouldn't go to college. For most people it's a fucking waste of time, money and effort. 2/3 of people study a soft subject for fucks sake man.
>My point is that some small percentage of college graduates carry that statistic and inflate the average, while ignoring all the people who got fucked over by college (too dumb, picked the wrong subject, wrong school, overpaid, unmanagable debt level, so on).
This is objectively wrong and it's clear why you dropped out. The graph shows median
Filter chart by age user. Then speak.
the current job market speaks for itself. qualified labor is virtually worthless, either you take a pitiful position with equally pitiful compensation with a smile on your face looking at the floor on your hands and fucking knees, or some other desperate motherfucker will. it's not even about the money anymore, a degree won't even grant you access to the lowest ranks of your field unless you pair it with nepotism or some other form of influential sponsoring.
There are more than enough high level materials online to learn any subject you choose up to and beyond college level. So it is not about getting an education. The only reason to go to college is to get a piece of paper to tell employers you are compliant with ZOG and its institutions. The price is six figures of debt and a lifetime of wage-slavery to pay it off. That might work for you but it does not work for me.
>wasting 4+ years of your life for meager returns and sometimes risk losing your job.
>you could just work for those years and make more money.
>the useful subjects like math
28, seeing the same divide in successful vs sponge friends. Imo it’s mostly lifestyle choices begin to show their rewards/downfalls when we reach our 30’s.
Just general comparisons between: >when you have kids
>buying drugs and alcohol
>your recreational hobbies
>do you plan for the future or have goals
>can you settle and live within your means
If you can manage going to college you have a better chance of being able to control impulses and listening to people smarter than you.
I only wanted to go to college just so i could get an asian girlfriend......
I want to build an animation portfolio to go to some japanese art school, but i thought i would miss out on experience young love with an asian girl.....
....none of the asian girls at my college like me.....
.....i was given a gross wake up call about how ugly i am......
....at least my parents are paying for it.....
The problem is that the piece of paper is getting inflated. There are so many students with those pieces of paper but not enough positions which means the piece of paper alone isn't even worth it. You are basically paying for a worthless piece of paper. The bachelor diploma is the new high school diploma.
Complex numbers are no more real than negative numbers when talking about how many of something you have.
Im self employed living in Dubai paying no taxes now. Nice try.
In the game industry its borderline criminal let alone useful.
>what if you have an auto loan too? :DDDD
One thing anti-debt populists will never understand is that a high debt load actually indicates a superior ability to pay. You may have to pay student loans, rent and a car load post-graduatation but the fact you can afford these things while a high school drop out can probably only afford just one of these things is telling in itself.
If you only make $400 a month you can probably only afford food, some minor expenses and rent and nothing else.
>twenty unemployed lit majors
Funny thing is that while skill-based degrees like engineering has high immediate pay-off they actually fare worse when it comes to lifetime earnings. Even millennial humanities grads eventually move on to something more lucrative than serving coffee
>t-that’s because the lit major kids I don’t like all are trust-fund kids
Whatever. The fact is they have soft skills which are necessary for moving into high-level position while dorito-encrusted engineering students don’t.
Physicists work in physics
Mathematicians work at McDonald's
Except a recent thread showed that physicists can't even find work.
RIP fun careers
Was meant for
>only one reason you didn't go, you weren't smart enough.
You answeres your own question. But also muricans hate college because of the insane debt they have to go into.
Obvious bait.
Do not use God's name in vain you cuck. The amount of taxes you pay is like having the debt anyways.
>College is Job Training Meme
lmao, you go to college to not be pleb. It's why rich people still send their kids.
You're not very smart are you
people trick themselves into thinking you get a better chance in life if you don't go.
truth is, the value of labor is zero these days, so you have no chance of getting anywhere whether you go to college or not.
ya finna seething seppo cuck? lol u mad as fuck whiteboi
>It's closer to $40k.
$40k is the price of a nice new car. if i came here and said i financed that, nobody would bat an eye but $40k for a college education and people flip shit.
Then its a ridiculously small sample size or a ridiculously biased graph.
only post itt that gets it
The real truth is that every single independently successful person received significant financial backing from friends and family and still only succeeded through a gamble with a 0.1% success rate, that is that a real person would end up in the streets at the end of that gamble and would have less chance to win it than to win the lottery since they have no small loan of a million to start off with.
It's a system I personally don't want to play into. I have an actuarial job, and I was able to get it without a degree even if it usually requires one.
0I'll just leave this here.
This guy gets it >average student loan monthly payment is $280 a month, around $3400 a year
>at 100,000, extra 10% in taxes is 10,000
USA healthcare is a crap system but I'm ok with how education is handled.
Because we don’t want to wagecuck rest of our life mr goldberg
>Funny thing is that while skill-based degrees like engineering has high immediate pay-off they actually fare worse when it comes to lifetime earnings. Even millennial humanities grads eventually move on to something more lucrative than serving coffee
This is absolutely true... very rare to see engineers move up without getting management skills... one reason you see so many engr to MBAs.
the fuck is a professional degree?
>The fact is they have soft skills which are necessary for moving into high-level position while dorito-encrusted engineering students don’t.
Lmao, fuck engineers, but I can't believe youre this deluded.
but everyone does this, so 100k in SF is literally nigger tier money
How did you come up with that number?
In my country 2.36% of the yearly budget goes towards paying tuition fees for students, financing research, paying lecturers their wages, maintaining the buildings, etc.
23.5% of that yearly budget is made up of income taxes of all kinds.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we look at this proportionally and if we pretend that the budget would shrink by exactly as much as free education costs, my country not having free education would mean that the income tax would decrease by 0.55%. I was never good at math, so maybe I'm confusing some things.
It's not an accurate representation because you can't get a professional degree in e.g. women's studies, which severely deflates the value of the average earned by people with real degree holders. This should at least be compared by broad field (e.g. tech vs health vs services vs social sciences).
>boomer detected
Yeah you don’t need a actuarial science degree to get in. But the the EL market is fucked. There’s only 288 el jobs in the us ffs. Only 9 EL jobs in my city which is a major city too.
Didn't you get enough of reposting this two weeks ago?
Imagine not going to college because you thought you were gonna be the next zuckerboig or something, lol
cicmoney101.org
Not a great article but better than nothing.
My point is USA federal taxes are at least 10% lower than a country like Germany or UK. That increased tax pays for social medicine, education, and welfare... my point is only that education is not free there, your parents, then you, pay for it in taxes.
Professional degrees are medical doctors, lawyers, etc. Agree this would be more useful with stem and non stem but it's what I could find... point is phd is not end all be all.
Agreed, I think lifestyle is way more important for how people perceive you rather than income. I have a friend who works in a factory making like 30k a year. But he's also an amateur bodybuilder, volunteer firefighter who does triathlons. Does anybody think he's a loser? Not really.
And my point is that free or subsidized higher education most likely has very little to do with income taxes being that much higher. Welfare and healthcare are probably more important factors. Also maybe income taxes make up a larger percentage of all government income in general in Germany and the UK, as US has other ways of bringing money into the budget.
im first generation mexican who grew up working in the fields. my parents sacrificed themselves to give me an oppurtunity and I was able to graduate with very little debt and now have an 80k job. For me and my family it was worth it
Important to clarify. Professional degree is also sometimes what vocational schools give out.
Accounting manor here, went to a university that was accredited but not super fancy or expensive (10k in the hole) there are plenty of entry job operrin my area and iv had a couple interviews. How did i do Jow Forums will i make it big?
Yeah and you’ll still be a wage slave just not in the fields.
This tbqh. Either slave in menial labor or slave in a AC cooled cubicle. Same shit different trap.
>useful degrees are useful
There is nothing wrong with trade work, but for most people, their income will max out within the first 8 years or so, and then you just have to wait for the tenure-based pay raises to take effect. All the guys I know who work trade jobs that have good income work lots of overtime, some mandatory, some not. I have a friend who worked something like 800 hours of overtime last year and made about 140k......but he'll never earn much more than 80k-90k working a typical 8 hour day. If he had a degree in something useful and worked at Amazon or similar, his salary would be 140k and would probably get an additional 30k-50k each year in RSUs. It would still be a complete grind, but it wouldn't average out to 55-60 hours per week that he has been doing.
Complex numbers are used in electrical engineering though
The thing is even if you went for a gender studies degree you still have a better chance at getting something simply because you hold a degree at all. You need a degree just to get ANY job right now, so having one is better than not having any. Those without any degrees will be the ones left behind unless they have work experience and intelligence to back it up, but with a degree you can bypass a lot of those requirements.
What about Plumbers and shit? Trades make a lot of money and you can use your knowledge into making your own business. Trades vs College should be talked more imo and shills always downplay trades.
I wasn't just talking about money. I was talking about opportunities and experience in doing things those without degrees can do. A lot of jobs will only take people still attending college or recently graduated, and those tend to be high paying later on. Trades is fine especially if you have family connections. Having a college degree also allows freedom to live where you please, rather than being limited to 1 country. Most other countries really like to see those who majored in STEM, so you have a whole world of jobs opened to you if you can graduate with a STEM degree.
This. Listen to this nigga