Minimum wage increase

So minimum wage in California is increasing to 12$. What's your guys predictions to businesses in California?

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Minimum wage laws usually have little effect on overall business. They weed out inefficient business models and encourage people to work less hours for the same amount of money.

As long as it is slow it shouldn't have much of an effect on any business that isn't some shitty franchise.

$12/hr is not near a living wage. i predict people making min will still be fucked

if your business can't afford to pay livable wage, market rate, you should go out of business because you have a broken business model

enough of this welfare for big businesses. survival of the fittest. we need to incentive competition. isn't that what the corporations have been saying for years?

$12 an hour in commiefornia might not be enough for a cardboard box on the sidewalk.

Ok, what about businesses on the brink of bankruptcy, like JCPenney?
Will they be forced to close businesses in States of higher minimum wage?

Even the (smarter) advocates know it won't do anything beneficial, it's just one of the first steps in expanding the gibs machine. Politics is a game of inches/frog boiling.

the concept of a single job being enough to sustain a family on needs to die. labor isnt getting any more valuable, its getting less valuable.

we can't keep subsidizing those that make poor decisions forever, keeping minimum wage alongside inflation is fine, but trying to push it any higher just results in more automation or outsourcing, and fewer independent businesses with megacorps continuing to eat everything up, meaning less tax income overall.

People will continue moving from Cali to Texas to escape the consequences of their voting, and then vote for the same shit there.

They won't lose profits because they will be getting more sales.

I don't know how anybody who works In service can live in some parts of California. I live in the bay area and pay a little over 4k a month for a pretty small 2 bedroom apartment. Some other areas are cheaper but still not doable if you're fucking making $12 an hour.

Federal minimum wage should be zero.
Industries can give advisory minimum wages if they want.

Not all jobs and not all workers are worth minimum wage.

lack of affordable housing is the real problem

how can you demand labor, but not house your labor? it's insanity

Oy vey, this is another shoah! Workers should be allowed to pay for the privilege to work!

How am I supposed to read that little map? What the fucking actual fuck man.

Activate technological unemployment.

There is only one REAL minimum wage and that is ZERO.

If you're not making what you want - work harder or work smarter.

t. brainlet boomer

There is no survival of the fittest, Amazon gets tax dollars to keep their operation going
Other companies are given money in exchange for information they sell (FB, Google)

The trick is to raise it a tiny bit each year in line with inflation, not fucking ignore it for 30 years and then do it all at once

Yup. Still, bums & bitches gonna bitch and moan whatever happens. Nothing is ever enough. If you want to earn more - be more valuable.

If you have government loans you can make your monthly payments $0 and they'll all be forgiven in 20 years. As for whether you can survive the tax bomb, that might require moving to a foreign country for the last year so you can get the foreign income exclusion and then basically pay 0 tax when it's forgiven.

>If you have government loans you can make your monthly payments $0 and they'll all be forgiven in 20 years.

That's only if you work certain jobs, like nursing

By vague shapes

Nope, it's under IBR plan doesn't matter what you majored in. What you are talking about is the loan forgiveness thing for teachers/nurses which is entirely different.

The US government pays Amazon for its services. It's hardly welfare. You just need to work harder.

You dont have to live in the city like a rat.

This. People should move based on job availability and cost of living. It is not rocketscience.

So what, ditch diggers and toilet scrubbers should just "work harder and smarter"? Honestly, you're retarded. All those shit-tier jobs are still critical parts of the economy, so unless they get a living wage you will always end up with a massive amount of poverty. I know most burgers struggle with the whole "cause and effect" thing, but that inevitably leads to higher crime, more welfare dependancy and a generally shit nation.

they'll learn the hard way when the grid goes down later in 2019
They pay people who maintain society absolute shit and don't even care to maintain what they have, so you're going to end up with brownouts/blackouts from 70+ year old infrastructure. And soon undrinkable water (think Flint but most of the US)

I was paid $5.70/hour back in '79 for a shitty job and that was considered a high wage. This whole living wage meme is just millennial entitlement.

so why not set the min wage to $100, if the businesses can't afford it then they deserve to go bankrupt and this way their workers will have money to spend.

Thinking about it, I
Wouldn't raising the wage eliminate jobs? Wouldn't the accelerate companies to look for more cost-effective mechanization methods?

If a job doesn't pay enough, people quit and employers are forced to offer higher pay. The fact that people work these jobs is evidence that the jobs pay enough. They would be dead if they didn't.

Poverty doesn't cause crime, shit culture does. There are poor areas with low crime and there are poor areas with high crime.

Price is a mechanism that allocates resources in society. If a job pays shit it is a signal you should do something else. Find work that is in higher need and more valuable - and thus pays better. Price fixing stops this natural resource allocation mechanism from working and leads to lower productivity and poverty.

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get fucked retard. way to build a strawman.

minimum wages, much like any price floor, create inefficiencies in the market

Yes. Fixing the price of work high means companies try to automate.
If business is not profitable because of high costs and cannot be automated, the business will go end.

My first brainfart/typo of the year 2019. The business will end.

America pretty much stopped having jobs once the first minimum wage was passed. I don't understand why we haven't gotten rid of it by now.

yeah but it is possible to be in a death spiral
the population will just decrease

Yep. That or the effects of mass unemployment from automation. All the REEEEEEEEE from these short-sighted morons when they lose their jobs & are needing to survive off shitty labouring work and such is gonna be hilarious. Honestly, I'd like to start a business where I sign up random people not getting paid enough, and soak up the whole labour market. Then I resell their labour at a much higher rate, paying them way more and guaranteeing benefits, paying my business from a percentage in the middle. Capture the whole labour market and force all the other businesses to go through the agency.

Oh, and remind me what the cost of living was? Kys boomer. What, they're "entitled" for wanting enough to live on and buy a house? Why aren't the businesses "entitled" for not paying them more?

If you turn any input into a price shock no shit there will be crisis.

illegals still get paid less than minimum wage though? whats the point. your country has far too many immigrants for a high minimum wage to work.

>I was paid $5.70/hour back in '79 for a shitty job and that was considered a high wage
Yeah well guess what fucko? LOOK AT PROPERTY PRICES NOW

I'm fucking pissed it passed in Missouri. My $1 morning coffee is now at risk.

And again - if simultaneously everyone working as a toilet scrubber leaves, what happens? No toilets get scrubbed. So if you had an even number of workers to jobs you'd have an equilibrium between supply and demand, but instead there's an excess of people unemployed (with that a planned thing to benefit a few (((people))) on top, see CIAniggers dumping crack in the ghettos for an example of deliberately creating this), so wages stay low. So yeah, that "bad culture" is part of it, but it's a two way street. Why wouldn't poverty cause bad culture just as much as bad culture causes poverty? Death spiral. And how do you want to fix bad culture? How about reducing poverty & encouraging more education and self respect?

>T. College stoner

Has some truth but it's twisted into garbage

I am all for encouraging education, self respect and rising out of poverty. Education is cheap as hell today thanks to the internet - people just have to take advantage of it. The best way to help others is to help them stand on their own feet.

Why not stop at 100 ? give them 1000, that way everyone can buy lambo !!!!

If we want to get rid of crime - the first thing we need to do is restore the nuclear family. Boys need fathers in their lives.
Unfortunately women have a huge incentive to dump the father so they can get on welfare.

Minimum wage was the only standard that the USD has anymore, which is currently that "the least valuable jobs for advancing society are worth 7.25 USD per hour"
With the current system, increasing that standard is useless for the people in that category, and harmful for anyone above it.
It pains me to see my coworkers who make at a minimum $20 per hour thinking a $15 minimum wage is a good idea. We make almost 3x the federal minimum, but I guess they only want to be making 33% more in exchange for feelgood points.

>i made the equivilant of $20/ hour in 79
>youre entitled for wanting a job that pays enough to live outside of your parents house
The eternal boomer strikes again

I think the word you're looking for is alimony? Welfare doesn't pay for shit in the US and staying on it is a bureaucratic nightmare. Generally, people don't want to be on things like food stamps or disability. Single mothers especially don't have an incentive, considering the effort it takes to provide for and raise a family. In almost every case it's fathers who leave the picture, the stereotype of the deadbeat dad exists for a reason.

Very true. No more single mothers benefit really, except in specific situations. Offer people say 10k to get tubes cut, watch as welfare kweenz & meth heads line up to self-select out of the gene pool.

Higher minimum wage helps your bargaining position.

Child suppot, not alimony, my bad.

Except that I personally know a ton of outright welfare queen's IRL. Sorry, but no, while deadbeat dad's are part of it the women are just as responsible. The whole culture is broken entirely. They deliberately stay on welfare & hunt for more seed to expand their income. They're basically a 1950s housewife, but with the government instead of a husband.

Need better bargaining to get it really.

So welfare is suddenly fine when it's going to a corporate monopoly? Should my small business not also get subsidies then? And in that case why not employees too? At that point why not just say fuck it and go full commie? Oh, because you personally benefit in some way, so you defend that shit while denying it to others. Why am I getting that (((feeling))) from all your comments?

Well that's great for you user, I know people with diagnosed debilitating disorders like paranoid schizophrenia who are get continually stiffed by govt disability programs. The US hardly suffers from pathological generosity.

take a good hard look at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon and ask yourself what they all have in common and why the founders are billionaires. Think about it for a second then reply to me, let's see if you figured it out.

my mom literally doesn't have a colon from a botched surgery. yes, literally, no colon. she isn't eligible for disability because she hasn't worked in 10 years, because y'know, disabled people work.

I understand that, but even if we get our pay grade increased to the same extent that minimum wage did it would essentially be a null effect.

washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/05/grothman-single-parents-welfare/?utm_term=.30f427039986
“A single parent with a couple kids can easily get $35,000 a year in total benefits between the health care and the earned income credit and the FoodShare and the low-income housing and what have you. … That’s after taxes.”
+ childcare payments and alimony from the dad equal to median income without having to work a job. The numbers vary between states, I am sure.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150822154900.htm
"Rosenfeld found that women initiated 69 percent of all divorces, compared to 31 percent for men." It is women that are more eager to break up the family.
Dads should be in their kids lives, not trying to defend fathers who abandon their kids.

Bankruptcies, layoffs, downsizing, outsourcing, offshoring, automating ... business as usual.

Oh I know that, and I also know a lot of people that of anyone should be on disability it's them. Assbackwards. My point is specifically that the system is not only not helping those that need it, it actively encourages parasites.

It's not a matter of whether they pay enough to be 'fair' to the workers or based on what a job should reasonably make. Workers compete for jobs so if there is an excess of workers the rate will go down according to supply and demand. For instance, when the plague kills out 2/3rds of the working population, guess who makes a lot more money?

Pic related.

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If there is oversupply, the workers should find a job where there is undersupply and profit.

not true at all, every company sets the same or very similar rate and you either are forced to work at said rate, or end up on the street. there isn't really any choice in the matter, despite this supply and demand meme.

We live in a dynamic, changing world where people have to adapt and change. The static idea of price fixing doesn't work.

Then the workers can band together and create their own companies, if they think they are paid too little.

It wouldn't be a null effect, not all of costs of the higher wage go to inflation after all, that's uncontested.

you are somewhat correct in this regard, but that wasn't what I was going to say.

they are billionaires because their product fulfills the need of an already preconceived agenda.

if you can provide a product or service that fulfills or acts as a catalyst for another part of the preconceived agenda, you too will become a billionaire.

You're ignoring cartel behaviour where a bunch of companies simply get together and agree on pricing etc. You're also ignoring the effects of government regulation & subsidies on distortion of the market, which prevents real competitors to said cartels from emerging.

35,000 for an adult and 2+ kids is hardly the lap of luxury.

As for divorces, I corrected my phrasing of alimony for child support for a reason. Honestly we should be asking ourselves what's worse for these kids, having 1 parent who can take care of them, or no parent if they're mother is absent working full time.

Sure, the culture needs to be fixed, but breeding entire generations with zero parental authority isn't a recipe for fixing that.

Welfare would be much more efficient if it was universal in nature, whether UBI or medicare for all.

Not when there are massive regulatory barriers erected & active subsidies of the current players.

Yeah, for sure. No desire to do that at all though. Becoming the richest piece of shit on a ruined planet full of dysgenic slaves is nigger-tier behaviour. Like wanting to become a warlord in the Congo or something, it's just a pathetic & contemptible life goal.

Regulation hits small players the hardest and makes it harder to compete against big players. I agree.
If big companies make a cartel, that gives new players an opportunity to grab market share.

It is not the lap of luxury, but it is a huge incentive for below average earning women to break up the family.
I would actually argue that not having to work a job is the greatest luxury one can have.

thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress.com/statistics/
"85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]"

Just trying to eliminate crime, that is all.

Welfare causes families to break up -> this causes crime -> crime causes businesses to leave -> this causes poverty

If mothers were economically dependent on their men, they would actively work to keep the relationship good and keep the family together. They would also make smarter choices when choosing their men. But in the current year they dump and drive away their men to become welfare queens.

Yeah, who wants to rule a pile of shit?
Still want to get rich though, the honest way that is.

>America pretty much stopped having jobs once the first minimum wage was passed. I don't understand why we haven't gotten rid of it by now.
People rioted in streets to have a minimum wage. We can take it away and put people in the same working conditions of 1890 and we'll have literal, real-deal, communist/marxists running around the streets and lynching business owners and shootouts with the national guard

>Medicare for all

Australia already has literally this (other countries too, Australia just still calls it medicare). And some kind of UBI will be inevitable, especially as automation-related job losses really crank up. Actually fairer than "welfare" anyway, hell it'll help to subsidise small businesses & encourage entrepreneurship. Of course, I expect the human race to fuck it up in every way possible, God forbid we just move cleanly from the current system to some kind of post-scarcity utopia.

>Inb4 magical new jobs will be created despite AI

No, they won't, any more than cars created more jobs for horses. We probably won't have 100% unemployment, but it'll be at catastrophic levels without some new economic system, or ya know, mass culling.

Then we kill them all. If all you have going for you in life is crime and extortion - you deserve to die. We are better without you.

Yep, 100%. I don't want to be rich if it means deliberately stopping everyone else from making it. Hell, I want everyone to be rich, let people will find their own level.

Somebody please tell me this is true

...

Wageslavery is slavery with a bandaid.
But then again it was always like this more or less. People at the bottom always got rekt.
We can try to fix this or make this model worse to crush the people at the bottom.
Because if nothing is done then "capitalism" will collapse

Automation has been taking jobs for decades. We find new things to work on. There are infinite number of jobs in the world because human desires are infinite. The only question is if people want to work these jobs or are allowed to. These jobs need to be found first by entrepreneurs.

I expect in the future people will be paid to be friends with each other, hell, this is happening already. Emotional jobs will multiply like rats. Rich assholes will pay normal people to party with them to get an ego boost. I think this is a great opportunity for some entrepreneurs to create jobs in this new economy and become rich.

I am actually kind of excited to see how the economy develops in the coming decades.

In the worst case scenario, jobless people can start working for each other. Build communities where people live the "good old ways". We will adapt and survive - don't worry.

>>Then we kill them all. If all you have going for you in life is crime and extortion - you deserve to die. We are better without you.
If only you can simply just snap your fingers and everyone dies. We have to look at the picture of the radical labor movements of the late 19th and early 20th century and see if there will be some similarity in the future with the almost inevitable collapse of the welfare state. I do know this, that the welfare state that we still have today was in direct response to the demands of labor decades earlier. Certainly it wasn't a small group of criminals but rather a group more substantial in size which had leverage and power to force concessions from the businesses and governments.

>Let me kill all my workers
Okay. It will result in a country that looks like Somalia or china.

Is the barrier to entry for businesses really that high?
Since employees are getting raped, it's better to be the employer. Why don't more people just do that?
Jobless people should create jobs and work for the people who are the smartest of them.