Any lawyers here? How stressful is it? Is it worth the money? I am seriously considering going to a law school

Oh, here's a recent one: they cost an innocent company an estimated $10m by taking a roundabout reading of a comma.

thewritelife.com/is-the-oxford-comma-necessary/

Lawyers are literal human garbage, and the only reason to associate with them is to protect yourself from other lawyers.

>innocent company
they could have just, you know, paid their workers overtime

They put criminals in prison but the "good guys" eventually get burned out and they ensure a fair trial for people at least theoretically so they contribute to law and order which is something that made civilization possible and indirect but very significant contribution to society.

The vast majority of lawyers are very fucked up human beings and good people eventually get pushed out of the industry doing soul crushing compliance.

Its a industry were you either are a asshole or become one eventually only literal paragons of justice with hearts of lions can stay in the industry and remain good guys.

Personal injury lawyer. Self employed. I did it because I wanted to have my own business and I live in flyover country so it seemed like a good option.

It's stressful but only because I'm a procrastinator and stress is a motivator for me to work. But I set my own schedule and do whatever the fuck I want. I mostly gather records and settle. I try two or three jury trials a year. Had to wage slave for four years after law school to set out on my own. Those four years were miserable. I have zero interest in working at a firm. I'd rather be a carpenter.

I’ve been a lawyer for 8 years, and I wouldn’t recommend this career to anyone. The only positive side is that it pays OK (>100k a year). But the work itself is boring, dreadful and I don’t think I do any meaningful work at all. I wish I would have become a dentist instead. Working hours are much better, generally less stressfull, they earn way more, and actually do something usefull.

>personal injury
>procrastinator
>do whatever the fuck I want
>2-3 jury trials a year

This is what the bottom third of a law school class looks like, kids. Don't be this ambulance-chasing user.

Why do you wanna join the British Accredited Regency?
Also why do you want to take from others?

Most are like this brainwashed user

They wrote the US constitution

In a common law country, might be cool. Im a lawyer in a shithole third world civil law country and I hate it.

To be honest, modern lawyers dont really add that much value to society, they just cause trouble and make themselves a solution

Why am I brainwashed?

Cause your a pirate, Stealing from vessels on the seas of commerce.
You guys trick people, make them think the law is complicated, get people to be a ward of the court. When the reality is you don't understand the law yourself!
Especially the ambulance chasing type!
Fuck you even admitted you just negotiate a contact!
Why did you sign up for the British Accredited Regency?

Are you sure you are referring to me? I literally said its a profession were good people get turned into bad people eventually but it serves some sort of purpose but most of it is superfluous bullshit?

I never signed up for BAR and didn't say anything about contracts?

I made this post originally.

was gonna go to law school, was prepping for the LSAT then the great recession happened and I foresaw a JD being worthless so I abandoned it. Turned out to be a prescient decision.

Fuck, your right! Sorry!
was the right one.
You actually sound alright! So many of your cohorts don't know what the BAR stands for! Fuck I have even had 'lawyers' arrogantly say its the bar when entering court! I even showed them links!

>This is what the bottom third of a law school class looks like, kids. Don't be this ambulance-chasing user.
This is what hourly billing wage slavery does. The only cope is to criticize the guy that's happy making three times the money for half the work.

this is true, we would benefit by rounding every single last one up and sealing them in a cave

Good luck representing yourself against multinational corporations. Or, we could just handle our disputes by the law of nature, Sons of Anarchy style.

I want all to know life is not all about money.

ALL professional services career is shit including finance, consulting, law, accountancy etc. You are your client's bitch and they will give you shit time for the pay they provide.

The saying do what you are passionate in and the money will follow you is not just a saying but the truth. And on top of that, it will provide you more happiness and meaning to our arguably meaningless life. Please do not get into the rat race the society makes the "elite" get into, open your eyes and find your own path in life. Be a true Chad.

Lawyer here. Only worth it for in-house. Otherwise fuck no

Curious if anyone would recommend what they think would be a job worth doing

Nope.

Everybody seems to think they want to go to law school, and not many people can get into a "good" school. So, they opened a shit ton of "pay three times state tuition, go for three years and here's a degree so you can take the bar exam" schools. There was sure to be huge glut of new lawyers in the market and not enough jobs, so there was resistance to opening up new schools. Arguments were made that this was establishing a monopoly, and the cases were dropped. So now, being a lawyer means you had 3 years of free time to kill, could afford tuition or would take out enough loans to follow you your entire life, and can manage to pass the bar exam after a crash course and unlimited attempts. Congrats, you're now a lawyer and starting pay for some of the most stressful and overregulated jobs on the planet is right on par with a starting truck driver. Oh, but 2% of you will make huge bucks, and law schools pretend that's the norm.
Just don't do it. Universally a terrible idea.

Lawyer here. Went to a good school. Got good grades. Still almost impossible to get a good job because you're competing with a huge amount of graduates. Law school is awful. Bar exam is awful. Work is incredibly stressful/time consuming. Thinking of moving sometime in your life to another state? Better hope that state has Bar reciprocity. Even if it does, it takes 6-8 months to waive in and thousands of dollars. Your profession is barely portable. Even if you find a job, you're lucky to find one making over 100k (those are the top 5% of law jobs). Most jobs you're making around 50k starting. You can get a job like that with an undergrad degree. Also consider student loans for law schools-- if you got to a top law school, it's going to cost over 120k. Good luck!

What is the stress about? The work hours or the subject you deal with?

ITT: angry cucks

Any of you guys want to by Personal Injury Leads? I can supply motor vehicle accident, work comp, general personal injury, SSD and Mass Torts

Attached: Tony.jpg (310x162, 10K)

Lmao at someone saying only weak minded people can be stressed out while being a lawyer. The stress is a combination of the hours and the work. You work on average of 10-12 hours a day and at most firms have to meet a billable hour minimum (usually 1900-2000 per year). This is just time spent working for the CLIENT. This doesn't count time in the office spent for internal firm meetings, reviewing bills, etc. Most people work probably 2400 hours a year or more.

The actual work is what is stressful though. In litigation, there are always impossible deadlines. You might be eating dinner with your family at 7pm and get an email from the attorney general that is 5 pages long explaining how they think something you filed is deficient and if you don't fix it within 24 hours, they will file for a hearing in court. So you have to deal with that and the onslaught of partners emailing you throughout the night trying to figure out what the fuck it happening. You usually wake up in the morning to a nice inbox full of 40 unread emails from the opposing party with formal PDFs attached basically calling you a lying piece of shit in the most formal way possible. Once a case ends after two years, a partner comes in and hands you two more. Rinse and repeat until the end of time until you die.

holy shit you are scaring me off going to the school. might switch to dentistry now that I am reading this thread, although it might be the same shit just with less stress

I practiced 8 years at a big law firm in NY then moved in house. Firm life was a fucking grind and I would recommend anyone stay in at most 3-4 years then use that to move onto better things. In house life is like a normal 9 to 5 job with far less stress but you can really only get in house if you go thru the firm experience or are really lucky. I made 375k a year at my NY firm. Make only like 200k with a potential 25% bonus but the lifestyle is well worth the paycut. And the job is sustainable.

>How stressful is it?
Long hours, and it can hurt pretty badly if you lose. (assuming you do a job where you can lose)

>Is it worth the money?
What money?

>I am seriously considering going to a law school.
What kind of law are you interested in? What's your undergrad?

>you eventually become rich but won't have time to enjoy the riches

this. You will sell your soul

If you can’t get into a good school and don’t have an uncle offering you a job, not worth it at all.

You do all that work and everyone thinks you're a greasy slimeball piece of shit

Law is just a cucked medicine

Accounting is pretty much the same as this. They start in the hellish long-hours of public accounting then move to private accounting. It's pretty much smooth sailing at that point. It's a very cushy gig.

Not a lawyer but reading this thread my conclusion is that being a lawyer is an amazing job for autists, but because of the money most lawyers are a bunch of failed normie retards.

>Lawyer is a good job for autists
In house maybe. To make any serious money outside in-house or being treated like shit, you need to be a partner which requires meeting with clients

But that's also bullshit. Correct me if I'm wrong but all lawyers do is memorize a bunch of shit written by people from the past who memorized the same shit, and then craft pseudo-logical arguments that can be accepted by the other retard who has memorized the same things as you in court.

How is that any different from the retards who argue about which superhero is the strongest?

>Need to memorize a bunch of bullshit
>Arguments are pseudo-logical based on the literature
>Arguments are won over consensus by a group of people who have also memorized the same bullshit

AND THEY DO IT FOR FREE

Do you not know what autism is? A major part of law is meeting with clients, especially if an owner. If you have terrible social skills, you’re going to suck at that and people won’t go to you. You could do great as a peon associate though, if you think working 60 hours a week for 100k max is attractive...

All that says to me is that law firms should be made of Chad CEO and an army of autists, not failed normie CEO and an army of other failed normies.

That is pretty much how every business is arranged desu

But all lawyers in this thread sound like failed normies. What am I missing?

Omg.

I do a trade for a living. Make a comfy 50 bucks an hour and there is zero bullshit.

Thank Jesus I did not become a lawyer.

You can have millions. If you work 60 hours a week the money might as well not be there at all.

I'd rather have a trailer and not do shit, than live in a million dollar home and be under constant stress.

Law is terribly over saturated due to there being no control on the number of schools being opened. As a result, the top 20-30% of lawyers are doing fine, and everyone else is fighting for scraps. If you go to Harvard medical school or Podnuck state, you’re still a physician and will be treated equally outside academia/research. A top law school grad will make 190k starting. Someone going to a third tier school will make 45k working 60 hours a week. The partners have to be able to generate revenue, which requires you being able to hold a conversation and seem friendly.

What do you exactly mean by a trade?

If it is for you, being a surgeon is a lot better IMO money, meaningful work etc.

passing the patent bar is difficult and you need the right stem degree like EE

>he thinks 60hrs is a lot

Fucking pussy

Pretty good sum up. If you go to a good law school, socialize you're wage slaving for six figures for 60-80 hours per week.

Go to a shit tier- you're wage slaving for a 50k. It's up to you how fast you learn to go solo, you network, and make 70-100k on your own schedule. A

I work for a lawfirm where senior associates went to a shit law school (4years in and are pocketing in 150k-200k). They work in PI and Employment law. Figuring out a growing legal industry that is being codified in favor of socialism is where money is at. Laws are being codified that punishes businesses for miniscule acts and in favor of employees. Lawyers are following the money. I would put my money in that industry for the next 5-10 years. Self destructive societal behavior.

Transactional law is a dying dinosaur for the most par. Litigation is where you have a stable financial outcome.

I put down flooring. Got my own llc as a handyman.

My rate is 50/hr and customer pays for materials.

Sometimes i do get a sore back but mentally it's a stress free life.

I don't envy the white collar fags in this thread

> brags about how hard he can slave

Capitalism depends on this mindset so keep it up!

It blows my mind how much burgers can charge for stuff like that. Must be nice.

Performance. You can't fuck up, and there are a million ways to fuck up.

I'm interested. How much for car wrecks? I'm about to fire my SEO/website guys if you're interested in getting me on the first page of google.

Doesn't make you any less of a pussy. Unironically working some menial 9-5 mindless job is far shittier than something mentally stimulating with longer hours

Strong cope

6 figs working 12hr days > mid-5 figs working 8hr days

>How much for car wrecks
30-40% of the settlement is pretty standard commission

What states? Are you the same user who was shilling this stuff last year? I want cases where you literally just write the demand letter and get the policy limits and move on to the next one. Stuff that settles insanely quickly and with minimal headaches. Sick of these bullshit personal injury cases where the guy has 2K in specials and the policy limits are 50K so the insurance company offers like 400 bucks and just sits there for 2 years as you jump through a bunch of hoops and ultimately settle it for 3K. It is a massive waste of time and you get peanuts.

The cases I want are where the specials are like 50k and the policy limits are only 25K. Anything where the special damages are higher than the policy limits. Most PI lawyers want higher limits because they think that's more money in their pocket, but they forget that it takes 2 fucking years to get it.

I want the cases where I literally just write a single demand letter and they immediately settle the case for the limits and I take my fee and move on to the next one. No dealing with lawsuits or even going into court at all. Literally sitting at my house typing demand letters and making $. If you can find me those types of cases post a way to get in touch with you.

Lawyers have to understand your problem, and then communicate it. Good lawyers understand why the vehicle was manufactured improperly, or why the drug had an adverse chemical reaction, or why this segment of code is a copyright violation, and can then communicate that to the jury/judge. Learning the law is just the start.

Anything becomes a job after you do it long enough.

But hey keep your self esteem up. :)

>Laws are being codified that punishes businesses for miniscule acts and in favor of employees. Lawyers are following the money. I would put my money in that industry for the next 5-10 years.
So basically employment law? Where can I read up on this kind of stuff?

What's the point of having money if you don't have any time off to enjoy life? Pathetic

I can't share fees with a non-lawyer. Not sure how it works in other states.

It is.

Student loan debt is about to be a massive problem here.

But the upside is that in blue collar deman is greater than supply.

I told a guy to fuck off today because i didn't like his attitude.

I nearly have the power a doctor has. Either they play by my rules or they call someone else.

We are in every state. No, never posted on here about what I do. Some states are full UT, KS, ID, and a few others but most states we can take on more law offices. Prices are set no back end pay when you close case $215 unless your'e in SoCal, NYC or Cook County then its closer to $230 per lead. Liberal return policy for prospects that are at fault or already have lawyer etc.. email me on my throw away go1fwan9 @ gmail and I will shoot over detailed email how we source leads and more info on what we screen for. We are also getting ready to sell straight up signed retainers instead of leads.

Law is great you basically get paid for having the ability to read and write and use a search engine to research case law or samples of contracts you want to write. Basically get paid well to not be a complete idiot.

Depends on your state desu. Left leaning states have been gold mines. Not sure for how long left. Personally don't mind fighting businesses, since a lot of businesses are bullshit fillers (Construction, big pharma, retailers- selling shit from china, restaurants, Service).

This. Also lawyers basically create a nice society for us to live in. Without lawyers and the ability to settle disputes in a civilized manner we would be back to trial by combat. A good non scummy lawyer is your champion right now, and worst case scenario will save your ass with a settlement that you don’t really like. I don’t think you want to go back to the old ways

Are you really such a child that you can't enjoy your life unless you have like 8 hours of free time a day? I enjoy my life just fine

You realize that people fuck up constantly but lay people don’t realize it because they don’t read. Also the whole point of law firms is to have an experienced person keep you from fucking up something obvious and then you learn and then you help next group of lawyers in the same way.

Sounds good user.

What happened to you becoming a partner and then not having to deal with this?

do you agree that it's the best option for someone who sucks at math and doesn't enjoy medicine though? or is it really that bad that it's not even worth it for someone like that?

What is your gpa and where are you willing to live?

Well Autists would be great associates that you have writing memos and doing doc review. Obviously don’t let them meet the clients, negotiate, or go to court. That is what the good looking people are for.

I'm not even from US, should have stated that earlier probably, I am from Czech Republic and it's fairly easy to get into law school and finish it here

Patent bar is not hard. However you do need the correct STEM degree or else you have to have a PhD and actually be smart.

Dude, I have no idea. Go intern at a law office and ask Czech attorneys. I would imagine it would be a good field if you don’t have the saturation America does.

Good idea, I will try that. Thanks for the tip

It's $215 after I settle the case? Same deal for retainer agreements? If I can pay on the back end, I'll take my whole state. Do you offer geographic exclusivity?

What kind of social skills are you working with, user? I happen to be pretty charming and rely on talking, which is how I make PI work. I'm good at math, but I don't need to be. Only really used to get creative with damages.

I don't mind writing briefs, there's just usually no need. I write what's necessary and take care of the rest at the hearing.

No charm and no math skills, you're looking at document review until you're promoted up to brief writing. You'll never be calling the shots. But, you probably won't ever suffer a disabling injury at work, and you can do it until you're 90, and once you make partner, you'll have pretty good job security, if that interests you.

No, you don't memorize shit to win. That's retard-speak among those of you that don't understand law; most lawyers with over a dozen years of experience might have a working knowledge of a dozen precedential cases that even matter in their field.
What you DO is to be able to research and insert case law supportive of your client's position. It's always out there, and your job is to distinguish it from other cases that don't work.
So, to use your idiot-boy analogy, someone needs to hire you to prove that Iron Man can beat up the Hulk, and in order to get there you need to prove that the Hulk can also beat up Superman. Yeah, you can get from point A to point B. But remember, someone could also be hiring you to show why your situation is more like SpiderMan vs. Venom, and you need to hash that out too, and throw in some reference to Carnage, the relative strengths of various symbiont hosts like Peter Parker vs. Eddie Brock, and why the origin stories matter. It ain't shit you memorize; it's stuff you learn to figure out depending on the goal.
It always sucks, and is never worth what you're being paid to do it. The only winners are lawyers who have done the shit so long they've made their money and a good name, and now charge the client a shit ton while paying YOU one tenth of a shit ton to do the full shit ton's worth of work, and now receiving 90% of a shit ton from dozens of cases to manage and incentivize lawyers like you until you burn out.
No one with an actual law degree will step in to say this is wrong.

No, you have to pay the costs up front because of section 7.4 in the ABA we can not take funds after you connect with the prospect. I am not a attorney so its not like a referral fee though whether you turn the lead into a $2,000 case or a $250,000 case you only pay $215 for the lead because you pay up front we can make addendum e.g. " if we don't produce x amount of leads in x amount of time we will fully refund you " and is why we have a a very liberal return policy and credit you right away if there is a issue with the lead down to the VM being full or not set up. As far as geo exclusivity goes that is something we can discuss depending on current clients and if that is even a option for the geo you want and if it is if you will take all the volume.

Generally takes 7 years to become partner at medium/big firms, and you are usually just a junior partner first and deal with even more stress because your name is actually listed as a lead attorney for a case when shit gets fucked up. After about 4 more years, you make regular partner and make a ton of money, but they are still working a shit ton and have to handle the extremely hard and stressful issues and are constantly trying to smooth things over with big wigs at their corporate clients when shit inevitably fucks up.

Dont.

Im a 4th year and im still a good guy. I am a asshole though.

What is your practice? I am doing civ lit and it stays interesting at least. Always some new spin on how the doctor wrote "back pain" in their notes.

Just chiming in here - a settlement agreement is a contract.

Lawyers don't steal from vessels on the sea of commerce - we are more like the lubricant keeping the gears of industry turning. When gears strike each other, its the oil that allows them to keep slipping along without chipping. Obviously, sometimes it fails... but I would much rather throw some oil in my engine than hope I engineered the thing perfectly.

You say we don't understand the law, but we sure understand it a lot more than you do.

Same thing I say to all my potentials: "I am not trying to dissuade you from bringing a claim, I can't comment on its merits. I can tell you I won't be able to help you with matter. Please consult your local BAR association lawyer referral service for more assistance. Good Luck.

elaborate

lawyers are parasites

I don't know dog, I walk around in a suit and get treated with respect by just about everyone, my 20 something hot chick staff do whatever I tell them, police and shit refer to me as counselor. My clients listen to and trust my advice.