UBI/Yang discussion thread

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Definition of cognitive dissonance here

Doubt we can tell until we see him in the DNC debates

He supposedly was on the U.S. National debate team in 1992 and reached the finals, but we all know that formal debate doesn't really translate well on the political stage.

forget the same league, it's a whole different sport

Oof, thats almost 20 years ago

I'm a bit torn myself. At this point, if things are going to just continue like this then give me the 1k. I know it's kind of like buying off people but with the coming wave automation only increasing, it's going to be necessary and almost unavoidable. Trump is a zionist shill and everyone else sucks. The only decent candidate is Gabbard. I'd probably vote for yang to shake things up and get my 1k. It can supplement my income and make life easier and less stressful. Plus it stops polarizing welfare.

My question is what would you do besides ubi? You can't stop automation

Is it a thousand dollars a year, or a thousand dollars a month? How is anyone supposed to live on a thousand dollars for an entire yesr?

you're not. it's supplemental income intended to ease your burdens a bit

1k a month

Which one?

>the world is going to shit
>the world is going to shit, but you get 1k a month
pic one

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so uhh... what's your point?

The only way I would ever be remotely okay with UBI is if we lock down all borders immediately. Third worlders will continue coming here en masse if we start giving out even more gibs.

Yikes, so he’s the s o y boy candidate?

UBI is a trick to get money out of the hands of the government and into the hands of landlords and consumer goods manufacturers.
The price of an iPhone, Yeezies, and Playstations will skyrocket, as will rents in every city.
Very little of the population will spend it frugally or wisely. They will still not eat healthier food, or enroll it adequate healthcare, or buy a reliable and efficient car.
Go watch the dave chappelle reparations episode.

UBI will not work without other incentives to make sure the money is spent on something that will create value and lower the cost of goods in the future.

Shoot all rioters on sight.

All Trump had to do was end the Fed. I guess I'l be voting for this guy to try it next.

UBI will definitely do the trick!

So if I own a lot of real estate and don't play vidya or want meme shoes I'm good?

Fuck off leftypol

yeah, except that society will be crumbling all around you and Tim Cook will be your new overlord.

Yang is slowly breaching normie levels, he was on The Joe Rogan podcast and The Breakfast Club.
I'm not saying you have to like those podcasts, but the reach that they have combined is pretty big.

My main concern. His talking points so far seem really logical but also very rehearsed. At times he really dodges hard questions and I can imagine Trump destroying him with non sequiturs

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Trump is a dead meme though

Fuck off leftypol

Regarding immigration:
>Secure the southern border and drastically decrease the number of illegal entries into the US
yang2020.com/policies/southern-border-security/

>eighteen-year path to citizenship for illegals that have been in the country for a substantial amount of time, deport any who don't enroll and follow program.

He's definitely not shutting down the borders nor is he opening them up more. More like status quo. Southern border crossings have been dropping for 20 years so he plans to just increase funding in the areas it's successful and try new tech solutions.

Your assessment is at odds with the results of every UBI experiment ever conducted. As well as the results of Alaska's babby UBI which has been completely positive in all regards. Alaska even has the lowest rate of inflation for almost 4 decades, the trend beginning when their dividend was introduced.

You are just spewing complete bullshit.

Based tim apple

>Your assessment is at odds with the results of every UBI experiment ever conducted
False

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Okay, how do we meme this guy to the top?

To be fair Alaska's dividend is a fraction of what yang gang proposes. Also, Alaska has a rather small population, not sure if the results can be accurately compared to the entire country.

We don't you parasite

>hurr durr Alaska is representative of the rest of the united states
>hurr durr alaska isn't a fucking cesspool of degenerates who need free money to barely stay alive
Other small scale UBI experiments in the US and EU have created no positive results. The other issue is that they are small scale.

Just take a look at college students who get straight up cash in the form of loans or grants. They spend the money on beer, festival tickets, new clothes, and apple products, while putting in the minimum amount of effort to pursue degrees that don't create value.

I'm not against a broader government provided social safety net or a jobs guarantee, but free money, to people who don't know how to wisely apply that money, isn't going to help.

I'm all for UBI but if you look at the more recent literature on the subject, most recent studies are concluding dubious viability. of course how these studies are conducted and who is funding them reveals the agenda behind the conclusions but the groundwork is being laid to have academically supported rhetoric to disprove it. end of the day, that's all they need to convince key communications channels that it's not viable, and thus the public will believe it.

case in point

oh, and every college town, district, or city sees the rent increase dramatically higher than what working class citizens can comfortably afford from their earnings. Meanwhile, grifting slumlord REITs move in, pushout long term citizens, and manipulate local legislation.

Based Yang Gang

Finland here. Even burgers aren’t dumb enough to vote for this.

There has never been a UBI experiment

Giving a few people some money for a year or two doesn't count

Giving EVERYONE $1000 a month FOREVER has huge systemic implications that small scale studies can never measure.

yea, its not that it doesnt work - its just them saying it doesnt work everytime its tried

You've clearly not actually read the results and findings of the finland study. First of all the experiment was crippled from the start. There was no proper control group and the money was only given to unemployed people AND the money was given on top of existing financial aid.

Even so: weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/the-results-finlands-universal-basic-income-experiment-are-in-is-it-working
>Those in the test group experienced significantly fewer problems related to health, stress and ability to concentrate than those in the control group,” the researchers wrote. “Those in the test group were also considerably more confident in their own future and their ability to influence societal issues than the control group.

The "negative" aspect is
>There is no statistically significant difference between the groups as regards employment
So they found, in a massively flawed study of only 2000 unemployed individuals. It did not effect their ability or desire to find employment either way.

I agree Alaska is obviously a flawed model. We obviously don't have a perfect model out there, but the imperfect ones that exist on balance indicate very positive effects.

Some radical solution to AI and automation will be inevitable anyway. I think now is premature, I'm only supporting yang to get him into the spotlight (debates) to get these talking points into the mainstream.

isnt this bullish for UBI, considering the amount of jobs that will be replaced by automation?

>hurr durr Alaska is representative of the rest of the united states
>hurr durr college students are
?

>Other small scale UBI experiments in the US and EU have created no positive results
complete bullshit

finland
>Those in the test group experienced significantly fewer problems related to health, stress and ability to concentrate than those in the control group,” the researchers wrote. “Those in the test group were also considerably more confident in their own future and their ability to influence societal issues than the control group.

uganda
> the government gave about a year’s worth of income, or about $380, to a group of applicants, and denied it to the other half. There were no conditions on the money, but those who got it invested most of it in “skills and business assets,” ending up 65 percent more likely to practice a skilled trade. Recipients worked an average 17 hours more than those without the money. And compared to the group that didn’t get the cash, those who did saw a 49 percent increase in earnings two years later and a 41 percent increase four years out, indicating that the effects last.

India
…far from encouraging laziness, the cash transfers have brought “more work, more productivity”, largely because they have inspired more “own account” farm and other working opportunities as an alternative to wage labor. Over one in five of the basic income villages increased their work activities, twice as many as in the control villages, and most of the villagers attributed the new farm or new business activity to the provision of the grants. Basic income villagers increased their livestock by 70 per cent

Kenya
>Kenya found that after poor families in rural Kenya were given an average of $513 by an NGO, their assets and holdings were 58 percent higher than a control group a year later, incomes were 33 percent higher, hunger was significantly reduced, and their psychological well-being increased.
>Similar programs in South Africa, Mexico, and Liberia have all found similar results.

There are plenty of UBI trials ongoing at the moment. I eagerly await their results.
interestingengineering.com/the-15-most-promising-universal-basic-income-trials

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Yes exactly, I'm just saying now is probably too soon. But unless someone can come up with another novel solution, UBI is inevitable.

the finnish """UBI""" experiment was a hoax, it was never an ubi trial like the one in manitoba or alaska, it was just rebranded normal welfare designed to fail from day one so they anti UBI shills could point to it

Yeah it wasn't big enough to actually cut welfare bureaucracy.

t. finnish

ONTARIO STUDY RESULTS
>Around 46% of respondents paid off outstanding debts, and almost all reported feeling more financially stable and prepared for emergencies–significant

>Around 32% of recipients went back to school or received new job training to start a different career, and 9% started a new business or expanded an existing one. One-third of respondents were able to stop relying on food banks for meals, and around 75% said they were able to make healthier food choices.

>Non-financial benefits also proliferated. Rates of people volunteering in their communities went up. Some respondents said the extra money helped them start exercising and focusing on their health, and many said they were able to spend more quality time with their families and friends. Around 88% of people saw their stress levels decline, and rates of depression dropped 73%.
fastcompany.com/90315293/ontarios-basic-income-was-working-amazingly-well-before-it-got-cancelled