Programmer brahs how fucked am i?

I’m 24 and looking to get into this career. Lucky for me i have the knack for it and i “get” computers and how they work naturally.
I simply have no formal training.
Right now i wagecuck and live with mummy and daddy and im tired of it and see the inevitable path. Although i invest and save i want a career, something respectable.

What would be a good way to start now? I’m not sure i have time to get a degree in conluter science, but ofcourse if i need it i shall. Ideally i want to work internationally eventually.

I want to get into developing in particular(maybe the growing fintech field later). Cloud based i was advised is good to get into.
What kind if things should i be doing to try get my foot in?

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just start a bachelor in cs or a math bachelor with a cs minor.

I will go down that road if necessary, i have just heard mixed opinion on it actually being necessary.

Someone told me to just learn to program as much as i can, build some shit and apply everywhere, and if i network correctly the rest is gravy

> i “get” computers and how they work naturally.
Do you really know how the work at the circuit level, logically?

He means he dreams in code. Or wishes lmao

but how do you plan to do networking outside of uni? also you are still pretty young so why not just do a bachelor for three years? or are you a americuck and tuition is around 10k?

No. You know computer iliterates who could not even manage to self teach because they just dont “get” how computers work and logical patterns within them?

I can work them fine and learn how to do stuff on them no problem. Many people exist who couldnt even fix the most basic thing to do with a computer and doing so is essentially wizardry. Those kind of people imo dont stand any chance

that was one of the introduction courses of my bachelor. in 8 weeks you learn how every component in your computer works.

Just get a github account and start programing. In 2-3years you can take that as your resumee. Nobody in the space really cares about your degrees if your code is good.

In my current job i meet ppl from all sorts of careers so lucky i can and do network.
I also already have someone who would help me get employed if i get myself ready. But thats not the important part for now.

Im simply looking for some genuine advice on the best path. I was told unlike other careers (like being a doctor or lawyer) IT is one of the few you don’t necessarily need a degree to get into. If thats bullshit then i’ll hust go ahead and get one.
But if i can try another route of teaching myself and such i would be alll too willing

Most people can use computers intuitively. That does not make you special, nor does it mean that you (nor most people) get how they work naturally. If you can intuit how a computer actually transforms high and low voltages into an operation that computes something using basic circuits and logic or stores information, then that's you getting how computers work naturally. Most people don't, but it isn't difficult to learn either.

Yes, it's part of every CS 101 course. We were tasked with designing a complete MIPS processor using VHDL.

Well i learned about that myself already but thats not what i mean.

Have you realky never worked with people who are utterly useless? They dont “get it”.
They learn through being taught a very specific instruction and sequence. If anything goes wrong outside of it they panic and are useless.
People who “get it” can deal with these problems even if they are completely unfamiliar with the error. They can deal with it.

Maybe you simply work with mostly ppl who are naturally (or trained) to be very literate

What the fuck are you talking about? You are talking shit about here how you "get" computers yet you do not even understand any basic programming language?

This is comparable to a man, who would boast "I have always been naturally good learning new languages", and when question which languages he could speak, he would say "Only my native tongue"

This is exactly what you are doing right now.

Lol this is a waste of time. You can nit pick or you can generously give advice to someone asking for help. Maybe the autism makes that difficult for you. Perhaps a more socially tuned person would recognise what you have and give appropriate advice, or simply say nothing.

Maybe stop posting frog pictures on Jow Forums and start to study basics of some programming language?

I recommend Java for beginners with Integrated development environment like NetBeans and start doing exercises. After that I would recommend learning C++ or some other programming language without interpreter.

>The "Fizz-Buzz test" is an interview question designed to help filter out the 99.5% of programming job candidates who can't seem to program their way out of a wet paper bag. The text of the programming assignment is as follows:
>"Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print “Fizz” instead of the number and for the multiples of five print “Buzz”. For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print “FizzBuzz”."

It took me 2 days worth of "programming experience" and learning to solve this problem when starting with my first programming language and I consider myself extremely bad coder in a sense that it takes me lots of time to solve various exercises and logical problems, but I never quit.

I am not even sure are you a troll

He's right though. Pretty much everyone can use a computer, you have to learn how to program to be useful. Learn C/C++

Based user, do you have any recommendations for online resources? I tried some udemy courses but found them too limited. I believe the best approach is honestly finding a beginner project and figuring shit out yourself till you make it work.

Thanks! This is what i was kinda looking for.
And for the record, i have taken a few courses over the years but no university. I have built computers and messed around with html and webcoding, but its almost nothing.

I’ll look into these. My biggest concern is if i need that degree or not, but i think it must be a difficult question to answer.
Ideally i would learn myself enough to get a gig, gain working experience and certifications along with a porftfolio and go from there, and the degree may be something i decide on later. My biggest worry is if i want to work abroad (i live in UK, want to leave and work in Eu countries or somewhere like Hong Kong), the lack of degree would terminate that dream. But i dont know if that is true

>tfw the bulk of society and the economy is now based around blasting very specifically designed rocks with very specifically designed electricity pulses

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Go with a community college associates in the short term. Get a low level tech job and see if you can use tuition assistance for a bachelor's

Or build projects that you can show people. Interviews fall flat when people say "I have no professional experience but hey I can do all this stuff ya just gotta trust me"

>Or build projects that you can show people. Interviews fall flat when people say "I have no professional experience but hey I can do all this stuff ya just gotta trust me"

Sorry, do u mean in regards to having a degree for “professional experience” or simply work experience/portfolio?

Binary electrical pulses are positive and neutral, not positive and negative.

I will give you the answer you seek - but you must pay attention.

>You must actually be smart. Being good at Fortnite or just "getting" how computers work (whatever the fuck that means) isn't worth anything. Can you learn? Can you be disciplined beyond one motivated day or week?

>I attended college for 4+ years, but never graduated. I was employed in my 20's and 30's - but never really liked my jobs. Thought I'd be a good developer, but didn't have the time or $$$ to go back to school for 2+ years.

>At age 39 - decided to go to a coding boot camp for the summer. 12 weeks. 5 days/week about 10+ hours per day and some weekends. Lot of work - but it was also pretty fun. Never felt like "work". Cost about $15k.

>Turns out I was good at it. End of boot camp - taking interviews for entry-level jobs. Low pay - but actual coding work.

>I'm older and present well - but not once did anyone ever ask me about the lack of a college degree.

>* about 2 weeks after end of camp - get first contract. $25/hr for 4 weeks of work.
>* still interviewing. get offer from startup for $60k
>* startup fails after about a year. get new job for $85k
>* quick promotion to $100k
>* raise to $110k
>* raise to $120k w/ $15k bonus
>* recent promotion/raise to $145k w/ expected $20 to $30k bonus.
>* skills are in very high demand.

^that's 4 1/2 years.

it obviously requires some $$$ and time to do - but at 24, you have time.

Thanks user. The pathing is what i struggle with, not discipline.
If i know the fruits of labor are there thats great news. I’ll do some of my own research.

May i just ask what kind if things the code camp taught you to start with? Was it theoretical or pure languages and even frameworks for building stuff like “agile” etc.

I just tried to make a fizzbuzz for the first time because of this post. I'm not even a programmer, I just took classes in school. It took me like 15 minutes and 30 lines. Then I shortened it to about 20 lines. I am using visual basic which I guess is supposed to be handholding babby language though. Maybe something as easy as Mod (which just returns the remainder of division) doesn't exist in other languages.

Module Module1

Sub Main()
Dim output As String
Dim i As Integer = 1

Do While i < 101
output = ""

If i Mod 3 = 0 Then output = "fizz"
If i Mod 5 = 0 Then output = output + "buzz"
If output = "" Then output = i
i = i + 1

Console.WriteLine(output)
Loop

Console.Read()
End Sub

End Module

ITT bunch of brainlets
you don't know shit OP, if you want to become a web dev, start learning the new techs, you don't need to know C or fucking assembly, learn javascript and make a simple web app with react, and make a simple node.js server, and deploy this shit to a container and deploy it in the cloud.
I learned C and assembly and 1337 infosec and used to program in java, now I'm learning react fucking js from jewberg because the jobs pay better, no one uses bubble sort or design patterns anymore if you can believe it, people just don't give a fuck, you wagecuck for 2 years at the same place then find a new job that pays better and let the next guy worry about your code.
go to freetutorials.eu where you can torrent udemy courses, and start with Stephen grider course on javascript, then react, etc...

Listen to me user. I have no degree in computer science whatsoever. I started programming at the age of 13 and learnt everything by myself.


But how do you prove to an employer you actually know what you are claiming. Show proof. I made several custom projects on my own and published lots of open source stuff on github.

It also helps that I didnt choose the common normie web dev stuff. I focused on more specialized work. I now work for the past 4 years as at a very good paying job making more than the average senior dev (I am 24).

Thanks user, what sequences do you recomend? Javascript, react then what? Or will I naturally know once I get past those two?

Bro, just use Python. 11 lines, easy.

output = ''
for i in range(1,100):
if i % 3 == 0 and i % 5 == 0:
output = 'FizzBuzz'
elif i % 3 == 0:
output = 'Fizz'
elif i % 5 == 0:
output = 'Buzz'
else:
output = i
print(output)


Advice for new anons looking for a career change, if you're going to learn to code for the first time, learn Python. You'll have a stronger sense of fundamentals and get your feet off the ground faster to do more cool stuff. People will say C++ or C or whatnot, but if you're committed to the field, you'll pick them up in time. When you're first starting out, you need to maintain momentum and consistency.

I did not finished cs50 because family problems , but seeing this only after doing the C part of that course gave me cancer.

You "get" computers but you don't know how to program and you want a programming job?

Why?

>let the next guy worry about your code.
Haha I can relate. Worked on the most convoluted, complicated shit ever for a picky client and got the fuck out of there lol

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Everyone is getting hing up on that.
You jnow what i don’t “get”? Art. Im shit. I tried it for a whileand got better, but only with effort.

Now i know many people who just “get” art. They have aptitude for it. They are instantly able to create. They with effort, get better a lot faster. They already “know” how it works just not in a way they can verbalise.

This exists for many different things.
Some people no matter how hard they practice, they simply dont have the logical mindset and abstract mind for problem solving in a system. Their minds dont naturally work thet way.

Thats what i mean by “get” it.

damn biz is retarded and considerably more normie tier compared to g

>11 lines, easy.

Checked my notes, I got it to exactly 11 lines with Java too if you do not include the main method as a line itself. I don't think you can make it simpler loop than this in Java.

main method {
int number = 0;
while (number < 100) {
number++;
if (number % 3 == 0 && number % 5 == 0) {
System.out.println("FizzBuzz");
} else if (number % 3 == 0) {
System.out.println("Fizz");
} else if (number % 5 == 0) {
System.out.println("Buzz");
} else {
System.out.println(number)
}

stfu dumbass, if you jave nothing to contribute then gtfo.

Biz just care about making money and advancing, less nerds looking to argue over useless shit.

(1..100).each{|i|
x = ''
x += 'Fizz' if i%3==0
x += 'Buzz' if i%5==0
puts(x.empty? ? i : x);
}

or

(1..100).each{|n|p n%15==0?"FizzBuzz":n%5==0?"Buzz":n%3==0?"Fizz":n}

wow don't call me names. sry my contribution was noting how biz is considerably more retarded and normie tier compared to hyperautist g. lurk g for this type of stuff.

I could lurk g and ask there but likely would be met by ppl scrutinizing pointless details and arguing over stuff that is completely irrelevant to the overall picture as to what i need.... which is just some very basic path ideas.

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I feel you, there are helpful people there too though. biz is definitely more practical advice.

I apologize for the name calling fren, I take it back.

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html and css to make readable pages, then javascript, do not feel discouraged if you don't master it, it's not the goal, torrent stephen grider's course on react-redux and start watching and work along with him, it'll take you time but he explains well, I have some experience in programming and CS and that's how i learn, with udemy videos to have an idea and learn of what's possible then when i work on a project i use google and click on the first 5 stackoverflow links to figure the solution to my errors, but DO NOT STRESS, stress will make you quit, it's normal at first to spend hours solving a single error, then the solution can be so stupid it'll make you laugh.
then when you know how to program react apps, you can either become a front end developer and learn while working, or you can start and try to have the general idea:
- network protocols like http are necessary for webdev
- different architecturs: for now you'll have to chose between mvc and microservices, chose microservices but learn how mvc works and what it means.
- now you know a little front end, you need to start learning backend architecture and shit, I don't know node.js, I know springboot and java, but I'd advice you to learn node.js, or python and django or ruby on rail or php laravel, not important now, you'll read about them later, they all have their advantages and disadvantages, now you'll start by writing an app that does some simple calculation and accept api calls then returns the result.

- after this you'll make your react app work with your backend app (let's say nodejs server).
- then learn docker+kubernetes from stephen grider on udemy and deploy your app on the cloud (he shows you how to deploy on aws and gc)
those things aren't the best to start with from a cs point of view, but pajeets know them and they pay, so after you become good in this and can make and deploy your app, you'll have to learn a little git, you start with github and travis ci, then you could put your own jenkins and gitlab servers and play with them (those are just tools so if you know how play with computers and figure shit out you'll find it easy).
- then you learn how databases work, either go with mysql for an mvc app, or with a nosql database for a rest app, you can use mysql for a rest app but i'm telling you what I'd learn first if I was in your place.

Thanks user, I appreciate your help. I will start looking into this. Civil memegeneering is shit and I want out.

>t. actual developer with 3 years experience who graduated with a CS degree and got a job straight outta school

Feels good to have done things "right" so I don't have to worry about this shit for the rest of my career

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nosql is a fucking meme

Can you elaborate on this?

If you're serious about respectability, get a CS degree. Those of us who know CS don't respect those who don't. If you only want to fill a seat and get paid, sure, that's possible without a degree.

If you're serious then install node.js, nom and VSCode. Run "npx create-react-app appName" in the terminal in VS code and fuck around with it to change the web page that comes up. There are a million resources to figure out what's going on.

You're not out the woods yet. You're still a wagecuck.

Essentially i cant afford to stop working.
I can get the degree slowly, or i can gain my own self learning experiences and some certs and lean while wagecucking, then once i get entry level, i can earn while learning more.

Hopefully the degree becomes practical later down the line

>all the react cucks
Vue is the future

you're welcome fren
I never used nosql, but it seems to pay well in s.oyboy startups, also it seems easier to learn and use with nodejs, it'll get him started, then if he wants he can learn java and spring and use hibernate with sql, it'll drive him crazy but banks and big/old companies all use sql and hibernate/spring is powerful as fuck

yes but...i think you are underestimating the level of effort you're gonna have to put in to learn how to program.

best,

for i=1, 100 do
s1 = ""
if i%3 == 0 then s1 = s1.."Fizz" end
if i%5 == 0 then s1 = s1.."Buzz" end
if s1 ~= "" then print(s1) end
end

You'll get paid so much more with a CS degree than without that you'll come out ahead within four years of graduating even if you don't work at all for four years. Don't listen to what people say about student loans; it doesn't apply to marketable skills. If you would be absolutely committed to graduating, borrow whatever you need. The degree more than pays for itself by far in every scenario (unless you're incapable).

Being capable of learning CS basically means being comfortable with mathematical proofs, by the way. Many of them involve en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction, if you want a sense of becoming a respectable programmer. If you want to learn some of the material in advance for some reason, read textbooks on discrete math, algorithms and complexity, and automata theory. If that stuff looks too confusing, try to enjoy the script kiddy life. We were all assigned our roles.

>Lucky for me i have the knack for it and i “get” computers and how they work naturally.
Do you have a polished working polished project? Or are you capable of taking one from start to finish, say even a game of pong?

There are a lot of people who have a knack for computers but can't code anything halfway complex.

>ic which I guess is supposed to be handholding babby language though. Maybe something as easy as Mod (which just returns the remainder of division) doesn't exist in other languages.
no it's as simple or simpler in other languages

Piggybacking off this thread. 39 year old neet here who worked as a software dev for 2 years about 10 years ago.

I was thinking about getting a job again to give my life some structure but would never get hired with 10 years out of the industry.

Is there anything similar to coding bootcamps but more as a refresher and update on skills for people that already know how to code?

no just say that your wife and kids died in a car accident or something

Just say you freelanced during that time or some shit. Always need some excuse.
>Is there anything similar to coding bootcamps but more as a refresher and update on skills for people that already know how to code?
Still falls under coding bootcamp. Just select one in a field that you're new to.