Are unions bad for the economy?
On one hand, they create good jobs with benefits, prevailing wages, and constant wage increases. Also, job security.
In my opinion, non-union jobs aren't worth it.
On the other hand, some argue since it costs employers more, this results in them rising the price of goods which hurts consumers (basically some say unions cause inflation).
What do you think. Do the pros outweigh the cons?
They help create and sustain the middle class.
Why kitty cat so sad when he got the french fry???
The myth of employers arbitrarily raising prices is retarded. They will still have to price their goods and services within the standards of the market, as long as they are not monopolized.
Without unions we would have 16 hour work days get outta my face with any other opinions
If you're an employer, they suck. If you're an employee, they're great. I'm unambitious and realize that all the people who put in loads of unpaid overtime because they believe the company needs them and cares about them have drank the kool-aid. The company uses you; as soon as you're unnecessary, you're gone. They're trying to get as much out of you for as little as possible, if you're not doing the same, you're retarded. So yeah, unions are great in that regard.
the union is the way to go. biz owners tend to treat your paycheck like it is money that you are stealing.
IBEW here....our customers are typically big developers with deep pockets, so I don't really feel bad about making good money. Here in LA there are still lots of non union contractors to compete with us. However in an area where a union dominates the market share, it could get abusive. I've heard NYC is like this
You should read your history more, OP. Especially focus on the industrial revolution in Europe and America. Unions are a good thing. Seriously.
Some guy I argued with said "they were needed before, not anymore. Now, they just cause inflation and there are sufficient laws in place to not take advantage of workers".
The only thing logical from what he said is that unions can cause inflation of prices for goods.
One of "those" guys.
google.com
Now... this dude doesn't seem like anyone special, but he basically argued what this other guy argued but I wasn't sure if this is complete bullshit propaganda or if this is actually legit.
Unions make sense in highly profitable industries as the capitalist will always get exponentially more powerful than the unitary worker, but for the industry to keep perpetuating itself it needs to balance the needs of its components. That includes both capitalist and worker, so I'd argue unions are beneficial to the system.
When the retards at Buzzfeed started a union for their failing meme industry angel investor cancer I couldn't help but laugh.
If anyone can cite some source(s) or something explaining who is right, I would appreciate that.
Unions are worker monopolies. They're anti-competitive in a bad way:
You're forced to join the unions to get the job.
You're force to pay the union dues.
Lazy workers don't get fired because of unions.
Unions are protectionist. They hate new workers "stealing" their jobs and are more interested in maintaining their own job security at the expense of non-union workers. That means unions for good jobs can be difficult or impossible to join.
I would argue those jobs are only good to begin with BECAUSE of unions.
Also, considering what you get paid (prevailing wages), union dues are an irrelevant cost.
It is OBVIOUS union jobs are superior than non-union jobs in EVERY way. That's IMPOSSIBLE to argue against.
My question has more to do with how unions affect that actual economy and if "unions causing inflation" is actually legit or propaganda crap.
this, right here.
definitely this. my job is unionized the same job of the competitor isn't unionized and they get paid half as much and half to do more work. ill happily pay the union fee of 27 dollars a month to not get dicked around that hard. the company still pushes the union hard and we're losing everything piece by piece. losing pay, vacation, jobs going overseas, how much and when we get paid overtime as we used to get overtime just for working sundays. you dont get that stuff without a union.
Unions are Boomer Tier and Cancer on Society
>Union Mentality
>That Kid works hard but he is only 25 he don't need to be making full journeyman wages
unions are for redneck boomers that can not read and keep one head nigger in charge of all the funds
Incoherent argument
Where is this cat from?
>be union worker
>do my job
>something goes wrong
>managers march around looking for random people to declare the scapegoat
>managers are forbidden from using me as a scapegoat
>have to use non-union other managers as scapegoats
>continue coming to work because the contrary would make me tell them to go fuck themselves
Works pretty good for me.
The post office will eventually collapse because of its union
unions are good for below average workers, bad for above average tho
My roommate works for king Soopers and the union is gonna force him to strike soon, and he isn't gonna get paid a living wage. The non union workers start higher.
Unions arent always good. If you work in a trade or an oppressive industry, they are good, but if you are just in an industry full of college kids working part time they are AIDS
>unions create jobs
The absolute STATE of OP
Old fuck here. I remember real unions, the first thing they want is a Closed Shop. After that you will NEVER get a job, much less a Good Job unless you’re the son of a senior Union official, no matter how good you are
theoretically unions are fine and particularly these days workers need a little more influence
but as institutions they're as prone to corruption as any other and I disagree with mandating union membership and fees, they need more measures for members to regulate them
labor movements got completely co-opted by the neoliberal agenda and a lot of these unions are just slaves to left-wing parties without any regard for the anti-labor policies those parties now support, like mass immigration
they could still be a very positive force today if they better reflected their original values
Unions are good only when they don't exhibit rent seeking behavior. They often ignore the financial statements and make demands that don't reflect reality. It is fine to have a person or group negotiate for your interest, but the result needs to be extra return. Everything you said about securing jobs, benefits and wages is complete bs. Just take a tour of the rust belt if you want to know what unions will do to your economy.
chicken and the egg
They were good, now they exist to protect cush deals in one party hellholes
Examples
-ft ran an article the other day about longshoremen in LA making 130k/yr on average: their jobs were threatened by automation (rightfully)
-hudson yards labor dispute cited elevator operators making 60/hr
-here in mass 2x staties have to be stationed at road construction regardless of time or road or anything; they make 80/hr
Its all democrat bullshit now
Not really.
Electricians non-union cap at like 30 an hr near where I live with no benefits guaranteed.
Union? Caps at 45 an hr with benefits and vacation and all the shit you'd want from a job.
Non-union are either for people that like getting cucked or simply aren't able to join.
The fry is cold.
Ibew?
For the record, I'm saying ibew is a good thing.
You know what? Fuck the economy. Even IF unions cause inflation of prices (which seems debatable) I'm not working non-union if it means shit pay. Ibew ftw
They're good. The problem is that they aren't really compatible with democracies because they'll naturally get massive influence. They end up being agents of the leftist class war, rather than advocates of the workers. Look at how all the unions supported dems in 2010/2012 with Obama's shit economy, and compare how they're treating Trump with his elder-god tier economy. Monarchies and Fascists did really well with guilds, which were able to act as both unions and cartels. They didn't need to worry about unions as political opponents.
I'm not sure how well unions would be in clown world economy though. Most of our workers don't actually do shit. So much of it is stuff like retail or waiting tables, or bullshit "administrative" work. All the money is controlled by companies which don't even produce anything. We're told that it was republicans or whatever that caused unions to decline. I think it was our change from a normal economy with agriculture, manufacturing, and services to one where a very small percentage of the population actually produces. I think a resurgence in unions would only come-about following a major transformation of the economy. Hopefully this would also coincide with political reform. I don't want Bezos, but I don't want Hoffa either.
Private sector unions = good
Public sector unions = bad
Cops shouldnt be allowed to have unions.
Having a certain number of unions is signs of a healthy economy, it’s only when there are no unions when things start getting terrible for the worker and thus the overall economy since the majority of buyers are workers. But I’m not for the communist bullshit even though it does sound a little marxy. Side note, Marx had a good diagnosis of capitalism but his treatment is where he is wrong.
Unions were best when they were run by the mob.
this. Union is a pure attempt to limit the
competition in order to get paid above the market cost of your labour.
The fuck are you talking about? Journeyman status is gained by hours worked and schooling, the union has no influence on it.
Voluntary unions= good
Involuntary unions (government) = get the fuck out
If a company is able to boost prices to comply with union demands, it would already have boosted prices and kept the profits for itself. The main difference is in who is getting the money. If the company gets it, it might store it in bonds, stocks, etc. But workers almost certainly will spend all of it on goods. This would increase demand, and either boost production in order to meet demand, or cause demand to climb so fast that there isn't enough supply - leading to inflation. Applying this same logic, we can also conclude that giving the money to companies would boost the stock market, which is the type of price increase we actually want to see.
I think it should be okay though. We're only operating at around 79% of industrial capacity, and there's still plenty of more garbage to import from overseas. Supply should easily be able to rise to meet a potential increase in demand. If we start seeing inflation then we can just boost the income tax.
>were run by the mob
Nonsense. Unions are still run by democrats.
The politicians dont run shit, idiot. They show out for the unions in exchange for votes. The unions own the democrats, not the other way around.
Shut the fuck up, nerd. You don't know what youre talking about. In my union, you're not going from part time no benefits to full time without benefits without the employer AND the union agreeing on how many to take in. In my union, the employer loves part time workers because theyre cheap and have no rights. So the union has to negotiate every year how many new workers get to become sworn union members that pay dues and get benefits. So yeah, the union has a huge influence on people getting hired.
You're really dumb and really worthless.
lmao, what kind of garbage job do you have? why the fuck are you talking trades and journeyman rates.
Cringe when I see the photoshopped eyes every time
Only boomers and retarded ancaps think so.
I'm in the ILWU, bitch. Who the fuck are you? Nobody. You're nothing. You're not in any union, you dont have any skills. You're just a faggot on Jow Forums playing knowitall and getting BTFO.
False. Unions support leftist positions on things that have nothing to do with labor. If the democrats were controlled by unions, and not vice-versa, the democrats in right to work states wouldn't exact exactly the same as the ones in non-rtw. But they all act the same. Connecticut, Georgia, California, Florida, they push the same things. Regardless of whether or not the democrats deliver, the unions all back the democrats. Even when a republican does good things for labor, they still support democrats.
just lol @ your pleb union. UA Instrumentation Journeyman masterrace checkin in on ya.
lol another little nolife bitch trying talk about shit he knows nothing about. Getting tired of you pathetic little twerps.
Who are you going to convince with this reply? I'm sorry for offending dear leader Robert McEllrath.
>pleb union
My local is 5,000 members strong. The entire ILWU has 36k dues-paying members.
Your little outfit isnt independent, you're just a part of the AFL-CIO.
Wanna compare wages and benefits, little bitch?
Itt: commies repeat their talking points to each other, and engage in copious navel gazing and dickholding.
Big Bob retired, stupid. It's Big Willie now.
If I had to use all union labor to build a residential house, it would take a month longer and cost about 30% more. So inflation argument is valid for some industries.
>If the company gets it, it might store it in bonds, stocks, etc
Companies don't really do that. Now they spend it on PP&E or something to innovate, or else they get eaten by the competition. In undeveloped markets where there was less competition and less information available unions were important, but now markets are developed. The public can obtain knowledge on other job opportunities readily and seek those opportunities.
That's more of a regulatory capture issue where unions have captured the market thru regulation.
Wouldn't it be logical of the dollar loses value due to inflation then human labor would rise in price since human labor is not what is losing value? So there would be a tug of war vs dollar value dropping and unions trying to increase price of services causing people to think unions are devaluing the dollar when it's just them trying to stay above inflation.
Only an American would ask this question. Ask yourself why you would ever want corporations to have more power in the economy than labor.
So the union is the gatekeeper to a high paying job and adequate compensation, and only dispenses these positions to union members who have proved their loyalty through tithing and working on their behalf....and you think thats a good thing.
Lmfao
>gommies
>ever
>t. Europoor who gets taxed 50% and just had 500 "migrants" forcibly placed in his small town
Thankfully we won't have to worry about your stupid fucking opinion much longer, since you have very kindly decided to commit suicide on a continental scale.
>this projecting
Step inside a real factory for once kid. More of those based $10/hr non union jobs coming right up!
Imagine thinking that supporting unions makes you a communist. The absolute state of American education.
It's a false dilemma. The only people who have power are those with capital. The anti-corporatism is a bs argument because private companies also exist, but what they do is opaque. At least by selling you labor you can gain some power.
Well then I guess unions aren't inflationary.
I'm a member of the UIW and it's getting pretty hairy. We lost the ability to strike because when we redid the contract a no strike clause was added 6 years ago. My employer hired a buster and they then hired a shit ton of unnecessary employees during the holiday season and gave a 2000$ contract signing bonus. Now our wages have stagnated (yet are still 40% more than the competition). Before the union my employer would force us to work consecutive shifts and give us no warning of our schedules. No vacation, nor personal days. We'd work 16 hours 7 days a week. Unions are good when they aren't ball-les.
On the other hand, it now takes a fourth more employees to get the job done because the quality of worker has gone down. They don't pay enough...
The non-unionized employees here now make the same wages as McDonald's workers, while we make almost 3x that.
Not only that but yuropoors have a regressive tax system through the vat. So they have to pay for their welfare with their own welfare money. It's like the poor are paying tribute to bureaucrats.
Oh you mean the factory jobs with wages suppressed by availability of cheap labor due to invasive criminal migration promoted and enabled by leftists like yourself? No I don't need a job like that, because I have triple digit iq and was clever enough to learn a skilled trade that is future proof and also doesn't require a union.
>create problem
>invent solution that happens to result in loss of personal autonomy and responsibility
>implement it through coercion
Just lefty things.
It depends. If they shutdown businesses to the point where one or two businesses can operate then they are inflationary due to the formation of a monopoly. That means no innovations and better product for the same cost.
You are, because unions are mostly government enforced now.
Fucking idiot