Bitcoin ETF

Bitcoin ETFs defeat the whole purpose of Bitcoin.

It was supposed to get away from all this stuff. God, why are you people so stupid? Why don't any of you get it? This is why crypto has to resort to large scale fraud to even stay afloat.

How the fuck is an easy way for people to buy bitcoin defeating the whole purpose of bitcoin?

Wouldn't ETF hurt Bitcoin's deflationary nature?
Right now u only can trade real, physical btc, so demand increases and supply decreases because of hodlers/lost btc etc. But if ETF approved, there gonna appear tons of "fake" btc. In long term this can be bearish.

This is letting cunts bid on hypothetical prices of btc. They don’t actually get to own any btc. How would it bad for us.

everyone here is a retard brainlet. ETF HOLD the underlying asset. Therefore, if a BTC ETF was approved, the ETF managers would have to buy Bitcoin from the open market, which in turn would lower the supply of bitcoin

Do you know what an ETF even is?

If derivatives can influence the price up, they can also influence the price down.

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Yes I do. So explain how it is bad. The ETF is real bitcoin. There was another that was not real bitcoin which would have been bad.

Boomer money will flood the market

It's only good if the ETF actually holds the BTC. If it's a quanto derivative then we are seriously fucked. This is how they "tamed" gold and silver. BTC will lose it's deflationary status.

but look at gold and silver etf. How much has the real price been manipulated by the etf when there are hundreds of claims per 1 ounce. This is more about institutions controlling the underlying price of btc and skimming whether it goes up or down same as it ever was

I literally did just explain it in the post you just replied to.

Jow Forums, never change.

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y'all fucking retarded.

of course this is good for bitcoin.
reason: more ENGANGEMENT.
Only thing bad for Bitcoin would be if no one talks about it. Shit Ass ETF is still better than no ETF at all you disgusting pieces of shit.

There is not enough gold in the world to fill all the gold ETF contracts.

I was also thinking the same thing. Paper btc will allow them to do fractional reserves with btc.

BUT as long as exchanges exist which are not under their control and trade the real thing and not paper bitcoins, I THINK they can't get away with this.

Because if the price runs up and away, who pays all the paper bitcoin holders their gains? They can drive the price down on exchanges that trade paper bitcoins by printing more, but they won't be able to influence the price on exchanges that trade the real thing without having actual bitcoins.

Once bitcoin becomes the world currency though, I don't see this working anymore. Because then bitcoin won't have a "bigger" currency people would want to cash out to, so there would be no system that would keep paper bitcoins in check.

The worst is boomers might bandwagon on it because muh serious institutions.
Its stupid as fuck, literally we can now have ETFs of Runescape gold.
Its all analogy to fractional banking reserves and will dillute the bitcoin buyers pool by siphoning the normie and esp. boomer money into institutional pockets.

You would think so, and maybe it IS so, but I've been thinking,l could BTC be the first asset to break free from the chains of ETF price control?

It's the only thing where the value of the asset comes from the use/usefulness of the asset itself. Wouldn't the fundamentals of BTC dictate that in the long term it HAS to go up (either that or die and go to zero) regardless of what the ETF traders do?

The only way the ETF can tame the price in the long term is if BTC somehow both doesn't die but also isn't used for anything.

etf needs to be backed

Crypto/BTC ETFs will be the end of crypto you fuckin newfags

STOP WISHING FOR THIS SHIT!!!!

These instututional firms have unlimited reserves. They may force governments to regulate and licence the fuck out of the industry and simply buy the competitor exchanges they can afford it. The dex cant get regulated and dies and they have ultimate control

"We'll tame bitcoin"

here is the deal
bitcoin doesnt need an etf thats the entire point etf is a trustful permissined construct. 401ks need bitcoin etf

Are you a newgoy or what?
How about they buy OTC
Then leverage short it with boomer money and crash the market with no survivors

can you explain to a retard how this will screw it up

well bitcoin has limited supply right?
but if you accept derivatives as your asset options and futures contracts they can multiply the supply to an apparent supply a 1000 fold. and you make these indistinguishable from your actual asset via etfs. technically the net balance of contracts on btc would never exceed the total supply, but the way everyone counts it might until it pops and it's time to settle.

Dev here. The ETF is neutral to Bitcoin except as a source of salt, it would also tend to reduce volatility. It would be net negative for alts as actors question why each doesn’t have their own ETF

Wrong think. Alice owes Bob and pays him with a single $10 note. Bob owes Carol and pays her with the same $10 note. Carol does the same to Dave, Dave does the same to Erin. Only one $10 note clears $50 in debts. Only one gold ounce coin can clear 22 ounces in debts.

Please to keep up

The ETF would have to track the price of bitcoin itself somehow. The best way of doing this is to hold bitcoin.

ie; While individual people aren't buying bitcoin, now this ETF company is buying billions upon billions of dollars worth of it.

Serious investors like bitcoin because it's inversely related to the markets. (Stocks go down, bitcoin goes up).

Why that's important is Stocks never really go down by more than 30-40%.

So if you have 100Bln in stocks. All you need is to have 2 or 4Bln in bitcoin.

Stocks drop 40Bln.. Bitcoin goes up from 4k to 20k.

So the net value of the portfolio is: 100 -40 + 10 = 50Bln.

That's when the dump the bags of bitcoin, at 20k, cause that to crash, and buy up all the cheap stocks for them crazy multi-million dollar bonuses.

-t Pension fund manager.

This is correct. Mooning in an ETF world comes from use cases

70Bln*

Alice owes Bob, Carol, Dave and Erin $10 but only has $10 who does she pay?

>1

See bitcoin works kind of like a counter-balance to a stock heavy portfolio. In the event bitcoin goes to 0. They lose a small fraction of their portfolio, Say 2-4%. Not crazy.

However say a crash in the markets happen. Suddenly that 2-4% of their portfolio has ballooned to completely and disproportionately offset their stock losses.
While the other funds take a 30% market crash on the chin. Their bitcoin reserves just inflate so that instead of -30%, they're at -10%, or even -5%.

At that point the real magic happens. They sell the bitcoin, and buy dirt cheap crashed stocks. The market recovers like it always has and always will. (And if it doesn't money is the least of your concerns)...

They make crazy profits because they bought stock at the bottom...and when things are dandy and bitcoin is 4k and the stock market is making new highs, they start re-filling their floation tanks (buying more bitcoin until it fills up 2-4% of their portfolio).

That's how real investors use bitcoin. As a 'ballast' on a real equities/bonds portfolio. To survive recessions, and then pounce back hard.

I was thinking, maybe the disapproval was a good thing. That congressman has a good point about banning crypto. Don't you all think that G-d's chosen people should manage our money? All this investing stuff is BORING. Let's go watch some TMZ and check what's trending on Twitter!

No they cant. The supply Max supply is written into the protocol and can be vetted. The only reason they can get away with this in other markets cause nobody knows the actual amount held or in mining reserves except for a cabal of people who profit from this.

People would have to believe a paper depository note bitcoin or "debtcoin" will function as a real bitcoin.

>Serious investors like bitcoin because it's inversely related to the markets. (Stocks go down, bitcoin goes up).
except it's not. there is 0 correlation, not -1.

Or that you can trade it in for a real bitcoin but problem is in that scenario is there is an already established amount.

>muh they short BTC with an ETF
What are some people here smoking?
For every boomer that invests in the ETF, the issuer basically buys the equal amount of BTC.