Can anyone redpill me on the Craig Wright vs Ira Kleiman case?
Who is suing who? From what I understand, Ira Kleiman is suing CSW for stealing 1 million bitcoins he supposedly stole from Dave Kleiman?
So CSW has control of these bitcoins? Are these the supposed coins in the Tulip Trust? So who controls the keys in the Tulip Trust? If he only has part of the needed keys, and he is still waiting to get part of the keys to fully unlock it, who has the other half? Ira Kleiman?
How can a court even have power to freeze bitcoins, and how can they have power to grant it to who they decide? I thought this was what bitcoin was supposed to change. Courts can freeze and transfer assets like land or cash in a bank, but they can't make people give up keys if they don't want to.
How exactly does the whole thing work then? Who has the keys? Who even has the power to decide when anything gets unlocked?
Does it even exist? Who brought it up first? Was it Ira Kleiman asking for the "stolen bitcoins"? Or was it CSW just bragging about his holdings?
I'm reading through the first link right now, and I'm already annoyed how some things are seemingly accepted as fact by the main document, such as Craig and Kleiman were there at bitcoin's inception (and were most likely involved) and that they mined over 1 million bitcoins.
But in regards to the specifics in my questions, they sound just as clueless as I am.
Sebastian Scott
Technically, bitcoin private keys are a very bad choice for any kind of mutual ownership (or a trust). Once you own a private key, you own it for good. Give it away, you still can access it.
Josiah Roberts
if he had those bitcoins and kleiman was such a GOOD friend to him he wouldn't mind giving his wife and kids the bitcoins.
but as everything with csw, just lies, lies lies lies and more lies
Cooper Bennett
You'll have to read it all and all the attached exhibitc to get a clear picture. Bottom line is that Craig is Satoshi. Ira Kleiman is suing Craig for his coin because he think that Dave Kleiman and Craig mined the coins together. Craig's stance is that he mined them alone.
James Thompson
Read the court files and you will see emails where Craig reach out to Daves father and tell him about his involvement in bitcoin etc and that he can try to help get access to his coins etc. Then Ira, Daves brother, comes in the picture and get greedy. It's all there in the files and it's hell of an interesting read
Joseph Butler
Throughout this lawsuit Craig has a history of providing addresses that he doesn't own
Jordan Hughes
All you need to know someone is paying Indians two rupees an hour to slide Chanel No. 4 with pro-CSW bread.
Christian Allen
No, that is not true. Here is the original document with the adress. It does not contain the adress that is in the forged document. You are being bamboozled by people that have a monetary interest of keeping Craig in the shadows for as long as possible
just an excuse so he can justify his behaviour, different day same shit, there is always reason X to NOT do Y whereas Y has always something to do with being satoshi
Joseph Sanders
They're both original, dude
Nicholas Butler
so craig goes into this guys office with his phone, this guy looks at the phone and then years later can remember 5 unique addresses?
how?
he make no mention of writing the addresses down or looking at the addreses on another PC where he would have a record of this
Jaxon Adams
I'm not going to hold your hands anylonger. Do your own research or you will lose everything
Ayden Rivera
Get a room, IDGAF if CSW is Satoshi or not. No one is answering my original main questions.
Who is controlling the keys? They keep saying the bitcoins were transferred to a trust in Seychelles or a trust somewhere else. But that's not how bitcoin works AT ALL. Bitcoin works anywhere globally, it's not "transferred" to specific locations. This sounds like something written by boomers who only have experience with classic assets like stocks.
WTF is a trust anyway? Who controls the keys in a trust? The court? CSW? Some lawyer?
Lucas Harris
Did enough of it
Matthew Sanders
bear in mind, the (unproven and probably mythical) existence of these '1 million +' bitcoin is still to the advantage of both parties to exist. Ira as he seeks to claim they belonged to Dave, and creg as they would go some way to proving he was Satoshi, or would at least still be there if he ever finds the key. creg promised Ira -from memory, need to double check actual figure- '$18 million now. or more, if he waited..' That creg seems to be attempting theft from Dave Kleiman (or estate of) appears obvious ('forged signatures on asset transfer docs, trying to get Daves laptops from the possession of Daves aged father, etc) - but a lot of the rest of this horseshit - 'Tulip Trust' etc - appears to have originated with either the Australian Tax Case against csw, or his attempts to hold off Ira from looking too deeply into what assets of Daves creg has theoretically stolen. tldr, one side appears -extremely- dishonest and it is to the advantage of the other to play along with parts of this for the present
the keys were destroyed. all the early BitCoin were spent in a nLockTime transaction that unlocks in Jan 2020. The transaction hasn't been broadcast. Yet.
>The transaction hasn't been broadcast. Yet. The absolute state...
Christopher Thomas
Is this the best answer I'm gonna get? So they're basically fighting in court over a trust that may not even exist?
Landon Ward
yes, of course. The keys shall be delivered on 1.1.20 by Santa riding the Flying Loch Ness Monster. I have pictures as proof, but Gef the Talking Mongoose told me, Code is not Law, so I won't show it. To no-one. never yes
Noah Diaz
yes BitCoin works offline
Oliver Miller
everything is connected to the question if CSW is Satoshi (which he isnt)
Robert Phillips
CSW is a government backed con created as a means to derail decentralized currency.
CSW = Satoshi; thats the only thing you need to know to keep it short. All other implications what that means for BTC/BCH/BSV can be derived from that. Pro Tip: He owns ~5% of the total supply of each and is pissed and angry. Make your own conclusions.
Lincoln Collins
you are avoiding the issue, again, as per. so where DID this 'brand new laptop' come from? Did it fall from the heavens, freshly wrapped ??? >he is pissed I'm shocked. Shocked, I tellyer
Gavin Howard
you gotta be careful there's some spinned misinformation out there to make CSW look like a total scam artist.
Be it on purpose or from trolls, - once you get your docs from an official site (eg court, business registers, archives) you notice the tampering on the stuff that's on some more 'public' websites.
CSW is SN - if you investigate that claim of him properly you will come to the conclusion that he's truthful and legit.
Jacob Mitchell
>He owns ~5% of the total supply of each user, I...
Daniel Carter
>spinned misinformation out there to make CSW look like a total scam artist lel >once you get your docs from an official site (eg court, business registers, archives) nope - even when we use court docs as a source, he still claims 'oh , those are forged as well. Perps unknown' >CSW is SN - he's truthful and legit not a SINGLE provable shred of evidence to suggest such, other than hearsay and stuff HE'S ALREADY BEEN CAUGHT FORGING. He is anything but 'legit'
Nicholas Thomas
>No one is answering my original main questions Weird huh
dude he likly made a 1on1 session to keep his privacy and not bust full public, which had more grave consequences.
It's not only the GA signing, there's shitloads of other hints and indicators that CSW=SN.
Jacob Stewart
No one knows the answer so the thread derailed. Funny huh?
Michael Collins
he posted 2 days ago on his website that he will prove all in court and only there cause he doesn't give a fuck about keys and signing. he also wrote he will only provide whats minimum neccessary to make you core faggots shut up. also you annoy him with your constant tinfoil hat theories like that "brand new laptop" bullshit in this thread here.
i would take this man seriously.
Dylan Barnes
he's likely also pissed cause he's a 50yo grown ass man and has to deal all the time with majorly 20-30yo immature man-children that comprise the majority of this sector.
Austin Walker
>there's shitloads of other hints and indicators Yep, like when he bought the bitcoin.org domain and posted about it on his medium.
Yeah... As I said, IDGAF if he's Satoshi or not, but people just kept coming in here claiming he is.
I don't care, I want to know the details of the trust. Who holds the keys in a trust? What is a trust even? How does it work?
These are the questions I want answered. I don't care if CSW is Satoshi, or if he stole a million bitcoins from Dave Kleiman, or if it is all fake.
I just want to know how the trust they are all fighting about is supposed to work anyway.
Xavier Sanchez
Talking to brainlets is meaningless. It's going to take 8 months before they get mass-humiliated and Craig is left with nothing to larp about. To make things more interesting, you might as well screen cap their larp. Until that point, they'll still keep respawning like NPCs.
Liam Garcia
I don't think you could crash BTC to zero even with a million bitcoins. Someone just tried it on the BTC/CAD pair on Kraken, and all they ended up doing was wasting a whole bunch of bitcoins, while some lucky schmo ended up buying a ton of btc for $100.
Samuel Stewart
>Craig's stance is that he mined them alone.
hilarious considering he originally claimed him and dave worked together.
>craig brings dave kleimans into his lies/scam as soon as he dies >daves family say ok you owe us his bitcoin >craig now getting sued by daves family >if craig loses then he owes them bitcoin that he doesnt even have >craig btfo once again by his own lies
Easton Roberts
says HOSTING there, Bub. Hosting is not the same as Domain
Nathan Rivera
AnonymousSpeech allows you to register a hosting package for a domain you don't own. That's the context behind the screenshot.
Elijah Watson
If Craig had those coins in a trust that is in someone else possession, he wouldn’t have the keys
James Gray
B-b-but I bought BSV!!
Hudson Jackson
I've seen several people say this and this is EXACTLY what I'm asking, WHO is holding the keys to the trust then?? How can a court even dictate who gets the keys? That's the entire point of bitcoin, they can confiscate land, they can confiscate cash in your bank, stocks in your portfolio. But they can't take your keys
How did the keys end up in someone else's control then? And WHO are they?
Cameron Brown
I read some of those court papers but I don’t remember if it said who holds the keys. Craig himself seems to imply he can’t touch the trust which would mean he doesn’t have the keys. Maybe it’s the lady Nguyen person that gets mentioned., if any of this is even legit
Elijah Phillips
it makes news headlines which is all it takes to draw in dumb money. I'm just worried that all the "fake news" will ruin any trust people could have in cryptocurrencies; which maybe the whole idea is fucked anyways considering new ones are created/forked daily
Tyler Cox
Not the first, nor the last
Christian Brooks
multisig is ok tho also you can timelock it
Nolan Nguyen
Everything Craig says is a lie. He is not Satoj There is no tulip trust.
Mason Nguyen
you kids have no clue whats coming for you. Currently the perception of CSW and BSV is thats it a huge pile of shit. what you discover after a deeper research into all this is that true gold is hidden under that pile of shit. Once you see it you'll switch camps from BTC to BSV in literally no time. It's not easy YET to see through all this garbage and thats why the price is still low. As soon as CSW will humiliate this Libel Dude Peter McCormick who talked shit about him on Twitter in court the coming days (where he will prove to the court -not to you faggots- that he is SN) it will become more and more obvious that CSW is for real and not some scam - and then the price will skyrocket hardcore even more than the last 2 weeks.
>under this steaming mountain of shit be GOLD! honest kids! yaddayadda - It would appear to most normal-thinking people, it be in cregs best interests to clear up any remaining misunderstandings (of which there are many) over his claim to be Satoshi ASAP ? Its just, he keeps delaying brininging this case against Peter McCormack, the one in which he claims he is going to provide proof ? Or, claiming Peter is 'running scared' of going to court against him - another claim which, to the best of my knowledge, be horsehit, utter - as per ? SO - why then doesn't creg bring this 'case' before court, where he can finally 'provide proof' ? Odd. isn't it its neither. stfu, you embarrassing yourself. again
James Perry
Nah, if a billionaire boomer and a LGBT lawyer win over some Twitter loudmouth, it's not big news. The real humiliation will come in January 2020. But we need a massive collection of screenshots with larp and threats to make history for years ahead. Imagine the lulz when the shills see their posts in several months.
Cooper Jenkins
>has the legal knowledge of a standard child >doesn't know that proof of btc ownership makes the AOT/IRS salivate >doesn't know that proof of btc ownership makes him liable as negligent or with criminal intent for others' illegal uses of btc >doesn't realize that keeping his btc stash private is literally keeping the hounds away
>a billionaire boomer which 'billionaire' be this then, pray tell ? Has no answer. Babbles shite
Andrew Nguyen
Good reasons why the real Satoshi would not come out
Ayre
Isaac Martin
Imagine a narcissist tells a man that his brother had a million quintillion dollarydoos in a secret bank account offshore, and so the man sues the narcissist for the money without proving it exists, having any documentation at all proving ownership, having any proof it was stolen, and having even any proof the brother was involved in it at all. That's basically the whole suit. The lawyers involved should be disbarred for vexatious litigation.
Daniel Kelly
>Ayre '..Forbes estimated Ayre's net worth to be "at least $1bn". It proved to be the peak of his earning power. "At the time, they undervalued it," he says. "There's no way I'm worth a billion now, but I'll be a billionaire for the rest of my life because of that article."..' fairplay Calvins doubtless certainly nearer to being one than the actual plaintiff in any case which actually proceeds against McCormack. Dont hold your breath waiting tho
Wyatt Miller
>vexatious litigation so why would 'somebody' go to the bother of forging Daves signatures on asset transfer docs, if there were no assets anyway? You could get done for fraud, y'kno
Levi Cox
Narcissism. To Craig getting hit with perjury and fraud is worth it to him because he is trying to maintain his delusion that he is Satoshi.
Bentley Price
he's not some illiterate retard who busts his load on the first possible occasion. this man has an agenda and he's planning his moves, what he reveals and what not (he even blatantly states this in his medium). you faggots have been warned, CSW is not some muppet like the vast majority in this market. you really think you're smarter than this guy? he's also a hard worker, incredibly dedicated. Read his material, watch his videos and DYOR.
Oliver Carter
>he's planning his moves, what he reveals and what not thats nice dear. I'm sure they'll be a Judge (or more) along very shortly, offer Mr Moves here a helping hand with drawing up his document release schedule
Kayden Myers
The deadline is January 2020, remember? That's when the whole agenda collapses. He's desperately trying to delay it as much as possible. The humiliation will be remembered FOR YEARS.
Carson Diaz
How about you braindead retards spend 20minutes of your precious sunday and do some lookup into him, his website and his claims without an initial bias? Otherwise enjoy poverty fucking clowns.
Aaron Morris
You think I did not do it?
Robert Martin
this
Jaxon Cruz
thats a forgery sorry originals have been submitted in 2013
Jace Gutierrez
>Do your own research Why are DYORs always gullible simps with no critical skills that believe everything they read on forums and blogs?
You did either not or you did sloppy research and did buy any shit they throw at him directly at face value without deeper questioning.
Easton Brooks
He didn't steal it. It was left to him if his partner died via tulip contract. The family member sueing wants it, but it was not left to him. The family member wants it in fiat, which would heavily wreck the crypto market.
Craig can't take it before January 1st 2020 as per the Tulip contract, so they're going to court.
Hunter Robinson
>Craig can't take it before January 1st 2020 Yeah, yeah, sure. What stops him from typing his private key in the bitcoin client?
Jackson Russell
Additionally, no one is accusing him of murder except the retards on here that have absolutely no basis for it. I'm not worried about this at all and will continue to support BSV. Once the courts are over and the Tulip contract is enacted I'm going to feel really bad for the people who stuck with BTC core.
Austin Reed
That's what the contract was for. if he violates it he's going to be in a world of shit. He has to be cautious, play it smart and follow the law, which is in line with what he wants with BTC- law compliance. Just be patient. Get your panties out of a bunch,
How are they gonna check it? Through the blockchain explorer?
Xavier Garcia
CSW owned 1.1mil BTC and Kleiman should organize the administration of that. CSW had a shitton of problem with the Australian Tax Authorities , even when he proved over and over again to be as MAX compliant as he can be and designing Bitcoin initially to be conformant with the law ("Bitcoin is Money"). He has a background in ITSec and Auditing so he was aware of the problems that could arise. He was actually best bros with Kleiman for years, even before Bitcoin and you can look up old conversations between them archived in Mailing Lists. This whole thing that Kleiman should take care of the 1.1mil BTC add up the more you look into it. Of course you have to be an 80+ IQ person that puts in the time to look at the whole thing to discover that and not some subhuman shit thats blindly swallowing any anti-CSW shilling.
Aiden Kelly
I gotta start accumulating screencaps before January 2020.
Joseph Sanders
It's also extremely risky if not stupid to directly out himself publicly with a key signing. Not only because of Authorities but also plenty of other things. The smartest thing would be as he is actually doing it: Confirming in private as he did with eg GA and keeping this whole thing in a shady balance. Also signing with keys is worthless, then there would be other shit he gets thrown at, like he stole it from Dave Kleimans death bed etc. The only legit option is getting confirmed in court, and thats what he's aiming for. Just look at which ridicolous details they come up against him, really mad. So the court is his only option.
Camden Kelly
you gonna need a bigger hard drive. This whole thing adds up the more you look at it
Evan Flores
>So the court is his only option. So. Why. Doesn't. He. Go. Then ? ? ?
Thomas Phillips
will any of the bsv shills admit on january 21th 2020 that csw is a fraud and that you have been wrong all the time, NO MATTER WHATEVER BULLSHIT HE WILL COME UP?
Jonathan Torres
Just do your research and stop being paranoid. The info is there.
Hudson White
you already know the answer to that one user. sadly.
Cameron Morales
>It's also extremely risky if not stupid to directly out himself publicly >So the court is his only option. lolwut?
Done it, not paranoid at all.
Austin White
stock up on anti corecuck memes
Jayden Garcia
check his website. I think it was this May where he had the Kleiman trial, the process is ongoing. Then he is suing this Twitter punk/faggot Peter McCormack who talked shit about him online. He also threatened to sue now that clown that also claimed copyright to the Bitcoin Whitepaper (woah..). In any of these cases he might deliver solid prove he is SN. This CSW bomb could detonate -in my opinion cause i don't know the court dates- anytime the next weeks to maximum months. Maybe its even days, i didn't look that up as said but it will definitly be soon.
Oliver Gutierrez
Exactly. People should also keep in mind that paid anti-craig shills have been caught, that ginger autists against Craig was caught using multiple reddit accounts to shill against him, even responding to himself through accounts. Lots of people want BSV to fail, and it's predominantly criminals, hookers, anarchists and commies, and BTC core cucks who don't want to lose money. Too much at stake for them not to shill against Craig. It will all sort it'self out with time. For now, I'm backing the technology and applications, even if the odd chance Craig is proven a fraud, the legitimate investment and technology is worth the investment alone and will succeed anyways.
Carson Cooper
He is in court, you mong. HIs last twitter post encapsulated that.
