Any real boomers here? Curious to know what the 2008 Great Recession was really like for the average person. I was only 14 at the time and my father was a doctor, so I was ignorant to how the economy worked and his recession-proof job shielded me from the true scoop of the recession.
How bad was it and what did you do?
Adam Martin
I was 18 and high every day so I don't remember
Nathaniel Taylor
i was 19 and have no real memory of it. might have been vaguely aware of it at the time. the only money i cared about then was my financial aid refund which it didn't seem to affect.
Oliver Clark
>be home builder >90 houses a month in 2005 >300 employees >30 houses a month in 2006 >40 employees >3 houses a month in 2007 >5 employees it was painful user. Watched my future of running a multi-million dollar company wash away to mowing grass for the government by 2008 for a dollar over minimum wage.
Jackson Butler
I was 18 at the time, just entering college (hence getting high a lot and not paying attention).
Here's what I remember: - lots of panicked NYT articles about it - uncle couldn't hire me for construction work over the summer because business slowed down a lot - news got eclipsed really fast by the Obamacare saga - the Madoff scandal got a lot of attention - Marxism had a big resurgence among liberal arts kids - Occupy pretty explicitly defined 2008 as a sort of genesis event
but yeah stuff didn't change that much for me personally, >t. middle class
Hunter Hall
I was in university at the time and then traveled to Asia to teach English. I didn't really notice it.
My father is in the oil business and it didn't impact him at all.
We are a lot more fucked now than we were in 2007. You just don't know it yet.
age is a bit off but pretty much this for me as well. bumping thread because I want to hear boomers experiences Shit user that's fucked. How would you have done things differently in hindsight or looking towards next possible recession?
Nathaniel Rivera
I was around 20 at the time, didn't effect me in any way as I was poor and had no assets, the little money I did have I spent on booze and drugs. Good times.
Eli Jones
Not a boomer but my boss rn graduated college in 2007 with a degree in Finance. Two investment banking internships before that one with JP Morgan and another with Bear Sterns during college. He had 3 offers given to him when he graduated. JP Morgan offering $70k a year with a 100% bonus at the end of the year, Bear Sterns $75k a year with a 100% bonus at the end of the year, and from Humana a measly $60k a year 10% bonus. For some reason he decided to punt Wall Street and didn’t want to be an investment banker anymore and took Humana’s offer, moved to bum fuck Kentucky (remember at this point Humana wasn’t anywhere near they are today) and started with them in financial ops. 6 months later Bear Sterns filed for bankruptcy and JP Morgan at the time seemed to be close behind. While at Humana they matched his 401k with their stock, and at the time it was some $25 and change. He worked there for 7 years before moving to work for where were at now. His stock went from $25 to $250 in that time frame, he turned into a multi millionaire and now is 33 and just built a $900k house. All of that was luck. If he decided to go with Bear Sterns he’d have been fucked. Now the company we work for now also matches 401k with stock and he started when it was $15 a share and now it’s around $120. I’m fortunate to be working under him he’s awesome.
He said though a lot of his finance bros he met on Wall Street in his internships ended up necking themselves after 2008 happened and shit over there collapsed. There was nothing.
Go watch “The Big Short” to get a better idea of what happened.
Charles Butler
With rising debt levels starting in the 80's and 90's, recessions have been more frequent and more pronounced than before. We are probably 2-3 years away from another major recession. The questions is, will the dollar hold up?
Logan Morales
Sweet vishnu look at the toilet on this biche
Luis Powell
remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper? where the ant worked all summer to prepare for the winter, but the grasshopper just wanted to play all the time? be the ant. while the money might be stupid today, it doesn't last forever. don't waste money on depreciating assets. buy land, get rentals, save at least 10% of everything.
Jonathan Wood
I remember being 20 and I started investing in the stock market for the first time just months before the crash. I didn't really know too much about good stocks. But anyway the 3000 dollars I put in got nearly wiped out. My boomer dad said his investments' value were cut in half. And no one hired me for a summer job between school years. Really we just stopped eating out so much.
It was the first time I've ever been just'd. But the crypto bear market was easier to stomach for myself than the zoomers here
knew that it was coming months beforehand because of a post by this guy named FreeBird on the honda-tech forums. I was around 19-20 at the time and failed out of college. I started working in the service industry as a line cook at a bar and grill. it doesnt matter if its a recession people still love booze which eventually leads to them ordering food. thankfully im out of the service industry now
Mason Cruz
My wow servers economy tanked hard as chinks began panic selling gold for pennys on the dollar as the ingame economy inflated like crazy. Wow gold was never the same since 2008.
Hudson Thompson
this, also i didnt understand this kind of stuff and didnt have a tv so i didnt even know what a recession was
Aiden Phillips
real gold was never the same either. bought 4 ounces thinking i was an investment genius at around 1500/ounce. havent recovered it since.
Elijah Jones
Shit I was boomer already in 2008. Bought stocks already before dotcom bubble. What is older than boomer?
Wyatt Gomez
It was very shitty. I thanked my lucky stars I barely got a $30k per year insurance job right before the bottom fell out. The office was so quiet you could hear a pen drop on the days when people were watching their 401ks get wiped out and receiving calls from spouses about layoffs. Foreclosures sprouted up like dandelions.
I masturbated to a lot of really grainy BBC porn on my shitty laptop. Gave me several annoying computer viruses and the stress orgasms were just okay.
Flash forward.
Ten years later I'm earning 10 x my old salary doing my own thing and life is sweet. Everyone is talking about getting a lake house or taking another trip to Hawaii. Houses flip like crazy and last no more than a week or two on the market.
I'm still beating off to BBC, but the choicest amateur subscription THOTs. I come harder than I ever have in my life watching black dick do its thing on my big 4k TV.
Just graduated college. No one was hiring. Period. You couldn't even work retail in 2009. This was the height of boomers who didnt lose their house going "Oh that's sad, just go in and offer them a firm handshake!". That's when I learned how out of touch with reality 90% were. I worked as a PA in the TV/Film Industry so I was fortunate enough to land a few decent paying gigs, but that also became harder to do as the industry chased tax incentives and my state voted to cut those incentives. Gas was over $4.00, and everyone had huge Hummers and SUVs. That's starting to come back again, but it basically boiled down to choosing how much gas I could afford to get to work and learning to eat the bare minimum from grocery stores to pay rent. Most of my friends around my age lived with their parents for a while and wanted to kill themselves. Even now, the reason so few of older millenials will spend on big purchases (home, new car, whatever) is because most still don't have a decent savings to fall back on, or the upfront to spend thousands on 1 item, and now, if you are making money, you're trying to regain a lost youth by buying stupid toys and partying like you couldn't in your 20s. Not to mention paying off loan debt and its hard to advance if your industry experience is still low (from the "no one hiring" for 4 years).
I'm in a much better place now financially and enjoy the little things. Back then, I was miserable every day that I wasn't working because existing cost too much money. Really sucked going from Upper Middle Class upbringing to below poverty line when I was out on my own for the first time. Some of the spending habits stuck. I still prefer to buy groceries and cook or meal prep vs eating out multiple times a week. I learned how to work-out at home and how to motivate myself to keep building whatever skills I could. Just bought our first home at a reasonable price in a great location. Fuck ever being a slave to your mortgage payments.
Luis Wright
You got arrested if you lined asked the teller to withdraw all cash from your savings account and give it to you.
I wish I was joking. Fuck this fallen nation.
Landon Long
I was working a night job in 08 l, then the boss called me in and tried to get me to confess to fucking off at work while he had me on camera. I just laughed and said no I was not fucking off I was working. He looked at me like wtf you're obviously fucking off, but I said nah bro I was def working..anyways he 'let me go' , I called unemjoyment and told them he fired me for no reason and they gave me a $20 wk raise and I took a 4 month paid vacation and went and found a better job with better shift ..I did have to sell my sweet suv in 09 for a bitchy little 4 banger car that I still have today ..fuck I ng toyota for ya
Jackson Fisher
((((((((((((((((((you))))))))))))))))))))
Oliver Russell
To add to my cathartic ramblings,I had a lot of friends in college who came from wealthier families who paid their kids tuition. For me and 99% of middle class kids, there was no disclosure about the full cost of college before applying in High School and every parent made it so it was your only choice. You simply HAD to go to college, even if you didn't know what you wanted to do, because it's what they did and that's how you make money, right? Most of my friend's parents wouldn't even let them live at home. The only kids I knew with employment at a "real job" straight out of college was due to pure nepotism, so many kids who can't land jobs went back to grad school. Not even joking. They just decided they'd go hide in schooling more while they rack up more debt.
You'd hear a lot of stories about fathers who lost their job and stocks killing their families and then themselves, I forget the term for it. Actual Boomers, not 30 yo Boomers like myself, got buttblasted in real estate.
Today, if you want a mortgage, you need to have good credit, little debt or a good income to debt ratio, and at least 3 years of employment history before a bank would even consider underwriting a home loan for you. They'll only pre-approve you up to a certain amount based on those factors. In 2007, anyone would get pre-approved for a home loan and would be cleared for ridiculously expensive mortgages. No joke. Someone working at Target could get qualified for $330k+ houses no problemo.
Instead of getting a fixed rate loan (so your interest rate stays the same over the life of the loan), you'd get an ARM, so there's a period of a fixed interest rate, and then it becomes Adjustable (Adjustable Rate Mortgage). People's monthly mortgages would SKYrocket to beyond what they could afford (not that they could afford the house in the first place, but that's why everyone is so fucking pissed the banks just got a slap on the wrist). THEN there's there's Balloon Mortgages.
My father had a shit-ton of money invested in Icesave (Landsbanki). Took years to get it back. The burn just reinforced him in his real-estate-only investment approach.
Robert Gomez
I remember taxi drivers were really hard up for money and not making it.
My job had gone from awesome to soul crushing as they sent all the work overseas to retards that cant be taught our geography and infrastructure because they dont understand it.
Anthony Butler
Finished high school went to college and thought I could get a small job on the side to make some experience and money. Found myself competing with real Boomers with Master degrees in comp sci to work at a call center
Leo Ortiz
This ^. Boomers fucked over every Millennial, and so did the colleges, and now you have a generation up to its eyeballs in student loan debt that Boomers make avocado toast jokes about.
Ethan Thompson
well, Boomers will have the shittiest end of their lives any generation can imagine. Tortured by spics, shitskins and niggers in old folk homes, left alone and abandoned by their children or dying alone in a worthless mcmanson eaten by their cats after they ate their last pair of shoes. They deserve it
Evan Edwards
He's probably mixing it up with the TEA Party shit. That was approximately the same time as 2008/2009 and started before Occupy (which was a poor leftist copy)
Carter Campbell
I was 20 at the time. Gas was so expensive I had to budget my driving. And it was hard to find a job, ended up going to college. And I was high all the time.
Hunter Collins
Only the lowest of boomer IQs with no money will do that, most of them are living up the end of their lives traveling around the world multiple times a year, living in million dollar detached homes in largely old white communities, and if they run out of money, they just reverse mortgage their home and leave their kids with nothing as a nice final fuck you to them.
Samuel Carter
reverse mortage a home that lost 90% of its value do to them flooding their countries with savages will not save them. They might spend their 60's traveling after retiring early trying to relive their youth, but their 70's will be hell, most will not make 80
Nicholas Peterson
Where have homes lost 90% of their value and not recovered? do you really think boomers live there? Or are you saying their homes will lose 90% of their value? People have been calling for that the past decade, but shit keeps rising, older millennial are unironically doing well and we're importing a shit ton of rich chinese that prop up the housing market.
Mason Sanders
>I masturbated to a lot of really grainy BBC porn on my shitty laptop.
I don't think Zoomers can fully understand how fucked Millennials were by the Boomers.
> Be high school student in mid -00s > Everyone telling you to go to college > You go to college, end up Middle Class > Most kids believe this, work hard on grades.
2008: > Economy tanks > Girls laughing at you for not having job > Go to college for prestige and status > Believe we're "gonna make it" if we try > High fees, but we're gonna make it, so it's worth it. > No youtube, streaming or other shit for easy money, internet still in infancy.
Late 2010s: > No one has made it. > The true believers in 6 figure debt, everyone else in double digit debt > Internet businesses, crypto, etc. start up. > Have to save up for streaming shit to try to make it. > Boss asking for you to work 20 hrs overtime for an extra 100 dollars on next pay check. > Non-White family on welfare next door up all night, making 50,000 a year. > Move to better neighborhood for twice the rent so you can sleep at night.
2018 > Millennials are killing restaurants. > Millennials are killing real estate > Millennials are killing professional sports. > Boomers laughing at their kids. Tell them to learn to save. > Only ones who made it were onions boy cunts working for tech companies. > Boomers think every Millennial are like them. > Every girl you ever liked is on Tinder searching for Chad. > You're still poor, still lack prestige > Only ones who made it hoarded money living at home for the last 10 years or got into coding.
And the Boomers wonder why Millennials have no problems taking their shit. If Boomers meme'd starting our own businesses instead of "going to college" everyone would probably be wealthier. Now we're all fucked.
Keep living in the dream world while around you the house is literally on fire. No 10 horses would make me buy a house, not even if I could pay for it without loan. Tbh I didn't expected a historic V for the real estate market after 2009, my mistake, but sure as hell I will not buy one during A, let alone B
Anthony Martin
I experienced everything you describe myself. Late GenX/Early Millennial. My hate for Boomers goes so far that I scammed my mother and father, told them that they will never get to know their grandchildren and if dementia hit them I will deport them to a shitty old folk home in Mexico because they like the food so much and voted Democrats their whole live
Thomas Collins
was supposed to graduate from ivy leave in 08 with a math degree. couldn’t get a job to save my life. took myself off the degree list, graduated 09 with a second degree in CS.
it was pretty awful. i made more working as a student than i did after graduating. things got better in 11 or 12 and now i’m in management clearing 200k (not in the bay area).
if i had graduated 2 years earlier or later i would be worth 200-300k more than i currently am. it was bad.
Evan Kelly
Time for a story.
Blake Anderson
i know wikipedia says 2011 but occupy started much earlier than that on college campuses, even if they did t camp out on wall st yet.
Eli Morgan
You didn't answer his question. Home Values, in some markets dropped, but not anywhere near what you're suggesting on the whole. In any case, the alternative to owning is paying the rent Jew the same or more than a mortgage. It's all market dependent. The only people hurting are the stupid fucking boomers who went from a $1000 mortgage in a moderately populated area who decided they "needed" to move into a $425k, 2 car-attached garage in the burbs and that kind of house is simply not attractive to millenial buyers at that price.
They wanted lavish elegance for their ego and they expect millennial to pick up the bill now that they want to downsize (cough cough, can't afford the mortgage) and no one is buying their 10 year outdated interior at the same price.
This exactly. Graduated with a media degree in 2008 (Moron). No one new or cared about Youtube. Worked on my portfolio and created an LLC Brand for my freelance work. Live at home and wonder for years what debt I'll need to accrue next to at least have a shot. Learn more encompassing creative skills via pirated programs and free tutorials. 2016, everyone wants content creators, everyone wants social media, more and more companies realize hiring one person who can do these roles is actually more efficient than outsourcing every little task. ???? Profit.
Shout-out to the one college professor in my entire program who spent every class just talking about how Youtube was incredible and we should all just be making channels. He was very weird, and very right in 2007.
That professor sounds smart. I've only come across a handful of intelligent Boomers who have a lurid and honest view of the world. It's a real shame too because for every 1 intelligent Boomer you have 20 who pretend to be intelligent and give you the most retarded advice.
My parents right now are telling me to go all into real estate even though they know a recession is likely to happen in less than a year. Take out a mortgage on a 500k house because it will be worth double in the future or whatever.
It's generally not a good idea to take any advice from Baby Boomers. If some Gen Z kid is reading this, if someone born before 1965 gives you advice or an opinion, take it with a grain of salt and look into it deeply. These people fucked over two gens (Xers and Millennials) I wouldn't be surprised if Boomers will start Ponzi schemes in their 70s and selling it to Gen Z.
Easton Martinez
>Owning vs. paying the rent that is lower than a mortgage You answered your question yourself. Renting their McMansons out below their mortgage payments will be the only solution for Boomers to pay for their medical bills once they realize that nobody is going to buy their "investments" or even has the income to rent them out for slightly below their monthly payments, because they flooded the country with cheap labor. Also because they all are in "white" neighborhoods away from the economic hotspots, they are not interesting for millenials and zoomers who have to work 2 jobs to pay for their food because the FIAT they are paid in is going to shit, thanks to Boomers. I think we don't need to go into inner city houses, as those are already flooded with Niggers and Spics on section 8 which makes living there a literal survival risk. The end of the game will be that Boomers will try to undercut each other, while Millenials and Zoomers are investing in alternative living, like vanning which gives them in addition a high mobility, favoring their 2 jobs lives. This all will result in the collapse of the real estate industry, with Trillions in loans that can't be paid back and a crash that will make 2009 look like a dry fart in an ocean, and Boomers jumping off buildings, hanging themselves and eating bullets and bottles of Xanax with a bottle of Jack.
With no way to QE further and interests at practically 0, the whole ponzi scheme will collapse, making the vision of the communist cretins reality, while nobody of those old Marxists owns guns, favoring literal RWDS, crypto NEETs and ethnic gangs of Niggers, balkanizing the US, resulting in what the Europeans called the 100 year war.
Matthew Cooper
Just the usual. Grown up in a lower middle class family, always getting told we have no money, learning to live like a poor fag, educated by old Marxists, the TV and thank god the internet, while my parents were "traveling" the world, taking mortgages on their home and being degenerates. Managed to be an average student, making enough to go to college, drowned in debt because I competed with Comp sci masters for shitty call center jobs to make money beside studying a worthless degree. Thank god I got into crypto in 2012, made enough to pay off my debt with the 2013 bubble. Kept living like a poor fag, forgot my worthless meme degree. Went into apprenticeship at an armorer and will probably take over the shop once he retires. Found a nice trad girl in 2016, got married in 2017, had a child in 2018 while kept putting my money into crypto, metals and bullets and abandoned my parents, whose health is going to shit after being degenerates their whole life. So not really something special, just your average non retarded Jow Forumsbiz/k/ user.
Logan Jenkins
I liked your predictions and your story is cathartic. Crypto really is the only way for above average intelligence people with a shit start to life to get ahead. What crypto are you holding out of curiosity?
LINK, ETH, BTC and LTC. Not very spectacular though. Trying to be a responsible investor, not jumping on every shitcoin, protecting the little I have against the storms that are upon us.
Hunter Jenkins
Part of me will always think everything except BTC and ETH are worthless and holding anything else is crazy when you consider the potential upside and risk of just BTC and ETH but I also hold Link for the memes and XCM because I think exchange tokens are worth holding for a while when a half decent new exchange opens up. Its always nice to see an oldfag holding Link. LTC is a shitcoin but you will probably make better gains with it than with BTC or ETH as long as you sell at the right time. Just remember never sell for worthless fiat.
Isaac Smith
Thx for the story. How did u scam your parents? I was about to pity them, but as I now know they are marxists I guess u did right, marxism is total shit and all marxists must be exterminated.
Ian Butler
>2008 Great Recession I'm a poorfag and literally didnt notice a thing
Connor Price
I have to hold my chikun, even if it just as a memory to the good times trolling in the btc-e box. And knowing the ltc whales they will make it fly sooner or later, just to dump on all the cancer that believes the bitcoins silver memes. I kind of agree on the exchange tokens. Centralized exchanges will not go away in the near future, Dexs are still too scary for all those that will fomo once we hit ath again, but I don't trust regulators, no matter if US or Chinese to not fuck Cexs when they become too powerful. But overall 100% agree with you, BTC is the only crypto currency that really matters, ETH the go to for smart contracts and if Sergey stops stuffing himself with cheeseburgers LINK could become the oracle that initiates the real crypto revolution and give birth to a whole new industry.
Christian Stewart
I was a kid. My dad lost his job and we were really fucked like for a year and a half. Eating once a day fucked.
Isaac Reyes
Scamming was maybe the wrong word. Sold them my bch stack in January 2018 just for them to panic sell it end of March at the bottom of A, since then calling crypto a manipulated capitalist ponzi scheme they will never put a dollar into ever again.
Anthony Jenkins
18 at the time but a relative had $400k in stocks/bonds reduced to less than $20k
my family lost their home, father lost his job, oilfield took a huge shit and went to skeleton crews of 2-3 people managing a shop meant for 30-40 people in crews
it ruined a lot of middle class small towns to be honest, i remember just cruising the main strip in town and seeing so many young kids in nice new mustangs etc, now the town is just all old folks, druggies and kids too young to leave.
Asher Price
The amount of times I have thought "this is surely the last time LTC pumps before it goes to zero" is staggering but I can't bring myself to buy any at this price even if I feel like its a smart move in this retarded market. >I don't trust regulators, no matter if US or Chinese to not fuck Cexs when they become too powerful. Pretty much. When I listen to exchanges talk about how fantastic they are for doing what the regulators want them to do the only thing that goes through my head is "thats great until the regulators change their minds" >BTC is the only crypto currency that really matters This is where the degenerate gambling aspect comes into play, I agree with this but don't even hold any BTC at the moment because i'm waiting for the ETH ratio to improve.
I really want to believe in Link because cryto is stagnating with no new tech apart from flavour of the month one trillion tps ETH killers. I mean I love how irrational crypto is but the lack of genuine new technology is going to kill shitcoin gambling if something like Link doesn't show off how incredible this technology is in the next year or two.
Brayden Sullivan
I was 20, bought a couple propertys and some stock. Lost money, business clients all downsized which meant less money for me. I almost made it very early in life but the recession put a stop to it. Took forever to recover.
Brayden Allen
kek me too
All I really noticed was that business slowed for a little bit at my retail job and it was harder to sell the more expensive items.Other than that it didn't really affect me.
Thomas Perez
I’m from Australia so it might have been a bit different I was 18 and had been working a few years already on my welding trade (High school drop out) The place I was working was very lucky, we had plenty of work through government contracts so I was safe the whole time and didn’t really impact me. But I did notice jobs were down a lot, I remember 2006 and looking for an apprenticeship and their were tons and tons of jobs, literally and easy to get. But when the 2008 Recession hit they all dried up, there were barely any jobs going and honestly it’s never fully recovered. I still look at the job listings now and there is no where near as many as it use to be when I first started looking for work.
Nathaniel Miller
LTC is a crypto currency controlled by anons who went into crypto in 2011 when the banking cartels cut off wikileaks from being funded. They hate the system more than anyone can imagine and LTC is a bit like their baby. They will drop it by 98% just for the lulz, but certainly will never let it die. That said, the chikun can shoot up by several 100% just to drop again in less then a week, do nothing for months just to be pumped again in a week way over its ath for no visible reason. Just don't put your live savings into it, and as you said, sell it with profit, because chickens actually can't fly. >I really want to believe in Link Believing is for religions. Link already proved that it can do what the memes are telling it can do, even if it has been till now just unimportant appearing things like putting temperatures and flight schedules into a blockchain from external data sources, but that is how it starts. The concept works, it just needs to be applied. And if the rumors are true, big businesses are not just working on operationalizing it since it hit main net. If done right it will revolutionize logistics and much more, saving billions in expenses for businesses. >Gambling swinging if not done with all in degeneracy can be fun. If everything went as predicted swinging between ETH and BTC will just make one bite its own ass for losing a bit of the one or the other. Both will go up, just don't sell for worthless FIAT, as you said yourself
Xavier Young
i was 23. foreclosed homes evrywhere. for like 4 years after 08 it was impossible to find a job. most people just got on the obama food stamp gravy train and rode the storm out. then round about 2011 things started to pick back up again. my stupid boomer grandma lost her house because she borrowed money against it like a retard.
Anthony Perez
I worked retail with a bunch of boomers with proper degrees as well during this time period. For whatever reason it didn't really phase me, probably because I was 19 and a retard at the time and didn't know how bad it was. Now that I'm older and went back to university I'm hoping that I can hang in there before the next financial catastrophe occurs so I don't have to be in the same situation.
Ryder Thompson
My parents lost their jobs and I couldn't go to school trips
Josiah Edwards
I dropped out of the community college I was going to at the time because I was seeing all the layoffs and I honestly didn't know what I wanted to do. My folks thought it was a bad idea but I honestly dodged a bullet which they now agree with me on. I have so many friends who got skullfucked by debt. Like I said in a previous post, I had no idea how bad it really was.
Jackson Ortiz
Hopefully you don't study a meme degree and are paying for university yourself and not with borrowed funds fren
Jace Sanders
90% of it I paid out of pocket by working 40-50 hours a week and doing my prerequisites at a community college. I eventually had to take some loans out, but as I'm no longer a dependent I got about half of my funding through federal grants, plus I'm an undergraduate researcher so I receive some extra bucks from that as well. I'll be graduating in December with what is most definitely not a meme degree lol. I've seen how that shit goes and that is another reason why I'm glad I waited a few years.