If all you need is the 24 words to access your crypto on any other Ledger or even MEW, how is this any safer than just using a wallet?
I'm sure there's a perfectly logical explanation but I am a brainlet.
Also what's really safer, a hardware wallet or a security key and keeping funds on an exchange? I suppose an exchange could theoretically be hacked but CB for example keeps everything on hardware so it seems like they'd be a poor target, so let's use them as the example.
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I dunno
Yeah I never understood the point of a ledger. I just used pen and paper
yeah op i was thinking the same
i guess its easier to store in this anal plug then write it on a paper and hope paper doesnt get lost or destroyed or copied
afaik you still need that paper more than the Ledger because the Ledger can of course break or fail.
On a hardware wallet the private keys will never be in the RAM of any (connected) computer.
you're able to plug this in any time in computers/phone(idk about ledger) without worrying about any viruses etc
the only risk to your crypto with a hardware wallet, is your own stupidity, giving out the pin or not storing the recovery phrase.
while with a regular "paper wallet", it's a lot more work involved to ensure safety after each transaction, either you have to be 100% sure it's safe or generate a new seed after each transaction.
so, hw = remember the pin and you can transfer any time, any where, without any issues
but get a trezor instead
So with access to someone's computer you could theoretically access their RAM and get their private key? Is that right (sorry, again - brainlet)? What is the likelihood of this happening / how easy is it to pull off?
hardware wallets are hardened for sidechannel (passive eardrop) attacks and supposedly reasonably difficult (if possible) to hack them even if they are attached to a computer. which means they are immune to run of the mill spyware and ransomware.
tldr they protect you from purely cyber attacks on your hot wallet.
here are many better and cheaper ways to secure your coins for cold store. if you don't want to use it don't buy one.
Read about Master Seeds, BIP39 and secure elements.
As for your followup question, yes, if someone gets a hold of it physically there is the probability they can extract the keys, but it requires a rare skillset.
Then again as in everything hack related, if you get physical access then it's only a matter of time until it's broken.
As for remote, it requires a physical press to sign the TX.
It’s encrypted so no.
if you have access to someones computer you can plant malware on it keylogger to get his password you can even use a remote debugger to eavesdrop on a particular process like electrum wallet. once the user accesses it you get access to his wallet too.
Hardware wallets are better for people that USE their crypto on a daily basis providing a layer of security on the computer they use for transfers.
They are in fact much much worse for cold storage and paper or metal wallets are always better .
no. the keys stay on the device at all times. the ledger signs transactions with its private key, and then sends that signed transaction to the computer for execution/submission to the internet/blockchain. a signed transaction is not the same as a private key, though you need a private key to generate a valid signed transaction.
in theory a physical attacker will want access to your ledger device, not your computer. then with an electronic microscope a phd is electrical engineering they can probably crack your private key.
yes if your hdd is encrypted it's less trivial but still possible to plant malware on it. back in the days i wrote bios extensions and shit that you could install on a card nowadays you can infect / replace usb devices. you better make sure no attacker has physical access to your machine. altho this paranoia can lead you down on a rabbit hole where you won't even take your pc to repair shop.
>They are in fact much much worse for cold storage
In which aspect are they worse than paper wallet?
i think he meant with a software wallet
Paper is king. Literally every important document is on paper
If your ledger breaks, buy another and restore your wallet there.
It's passing through the USB and I think the data can be sniffed.
The difference between an hw wallet and a paper wallet is that with the first your private key NEVER gets exposed to any pc or whatnot, not when you make a transaction not the very first time that you create the wallet. If you want you can as well create a fully functional wallet with the ledger plugged into your smartphone charger, no need for a pc, an internet connection, anything but the ledger itself. It's math shit, practically every possible wallet exists already on the blockchain, your ledger algorithmically pick one and generates its private key (the chances of getting a duplicate are non existent since the almost infinite buffer) and BAM! That's how a blockchain works, or at least how I understand it
mind you i'm not talking about unencrypted paper wallets that's full retard
1) they cost money, and limit your secure redundancy with it.
2) false sense of security: evil maid attacks are very much possible unless proper protocol is followed.
3) some trust in and reliance on a vendor
you need to physically confirm on the hardware device to send so you cant be hacked
Can't confirmation signal be read and imitated?
it would be trivial to encrypt the communication but no data that is sensitive ownership wise will ever cross the usb interface normally.
nah digital signatures m8 with public key cryptography.
you are a retard. to transfer funds from a paper wallet, you have to sweep the whole wallet into a software wallet, which breaches basically all of your security you worked so hard for. if you plan on ever spending or transfering your btc, a ledger or trezorr are much better choices
actually there are ways around this, but generally yes. which is why (among other things) i only have 0.1 btc on each paper wallet. if i want to cash out i can swipe some straight to the exchange. you have to trust them to cash out anyhow.
>writing down their private keys on a piece of paper
you niggers are going to get incredibly JUSTed
Thanks bro.
Fair, I was aware of 2) and 3) took leaps of faith.
1) is arguable, as I would still have to pay for vaults to really store my keys properly. Then again that's another actor in the chain of trust.
read up on bip38! you can have many copies. for free. stored at multiple locations. both physically and virtually. it's mathematically secure enough to financially ruin a galactic empire and still take them longer than how long the universe exists.
don't diss paper wallets! for what they cost you they offer the best possible security.
you shouldn't trust anyone with your private keys. if you use paper wallets check the bip38 encryption and use a strong enough passphrase. 20+ characters are very much recommended.
but you can have both a metal and hardware wallet. Seed in metal in secure location / trezor for ability to move crypto around securely.
You don't want to enter your keys using your computer's keyboard, ever.
Keyloggers are old as fuck and there's a shitton of them.
Lol you realize a quick google search would answer your brainlet tier questions
why use metal seed plate? makes no sense to me. the goal should be secure redundancy anything that costs money limit your redundancy writing down your seed possibly decreases your security (there are ways around this but then what purpose the seed serves lol?) also if you store plain text seed at multiple locations you are actually making things worse not better.
just my 2 cents.
If I’m not mistaken, the amount of combinations you can have these 24 words in are 24^24. Type this into your calculator so you can see how huge that number is. It’s gonna take millions of years to brute force this open
heh you actually think the hardware wallet is secured by the seed? lol no it's secured by a 4-8 digit pin (which is a soft protection not even cryptographic not that it would matter) and actually stores your seed almost the same as if you write it down on a piece of paper and leave it on your desk. the difference is you need some equipment and supplies and expertise to get the seed out of a hardware wallet. but the fence will know the guy and jamal will know the fence pays him a $100 for any of these shits.
Actually it pulls up a bunch of Reddit threads which is why I came here. Go back.
*face palm* Imagine having a hard time researching something as basic as a Ledger Nano without consulting reddit
I guess. If you are that certain that your PC is free of malware when you create it. That's what I like the trezor. Never have to touch my PC, which 99% is fine, but it gives me peace of mind.
I can and do also have multiple copies of the seed phrase in different secure locations.
I opted for metal because it is environment proof. I researched crush tests, extreme heat, corrosion, drop tests and picked the solution for me.
What do you mean what purpose does the seed serve? The seed is more important than the trezor device itself. It is the keys to the kingdom.
>If you are that certain that your PC is free of malware when you create it.
yeah the trick is you boot a mint live os and turn off/restart the machine which resets the ram after wallet generation.
>I can and do also have multiple copies of the seed phrase in different secure locations.
and imo that decreases your security not increases it research shamirs a bit, you will do better. there is a shamir-39 implementation specifically for seeds:
github.com
>apple stone finger
can be deciphered by any 3 of these
>army awful together snake west
>around swing used blind repeat
>arrange soap almost arrow bomb
>arrest drive cabin math gym
>arrive fancy walnut mystery shy
but if your attacker only finds one or two he is fucked.
With hardware wallet I am comfortable browsing porn sites and downloading torrents and any keyloggers on my computer as I access my funds
Exchanges are fundamentally insecure and non-private due to government involvement(backdoors, monitoring etc). Nobody should be keeping anything on an exchange and preferably you shouldn't be buying from them either.
>mint live os
brainlet mode
lmfao
mint is the only linux distro to ever have had their page attacked and their legitimate ISO replaced with a malware infected copy
It makes it so you cannot lose your seed phrase to key logging. It doesnt make your wallet harder to break in to, it just makes it harder for you to fuck up on the data security side.
by mint i mean verified iso unaltered not mint actual. you can save the iso for later use and wait a few days or weeks if any shit turns up. hacks rarely go unnoticed for long.
whats your distro of choice user?
frankly i just use ubus (i always have on lying around) it doesn't matter but i think specifically tails is made for this.
boot up fresh make sure hdd is not writeable (mine is encrypted anyhow) make sure your computer is offline and go. i personally just install a pdf printer also prepared and verified on the live os with the wallet generator sites and print to pdf so that i can reprint the wallets any time store them digitally too. i don't even have a printer at home frankly.
based