>be 27 >be a composer and performer with 10 published compositions >teach private lessons at a school >not making much money >need a PhD to get my compositions into the classical institutions and to be able to teach at better schools >apply and get accepted into a PhD program >dad also offered to pay for any coding certificates >deciding if I should keep pursuing classical music or give up and go into software development
Any tech workers or classical music graduates here? Any advice on what to do?
bail on the PhD immediately. you will not get a job and you’ll be broke and fucking miserable. Become a dev work for 3 years then get a comfy remote coding job and compose music for vidya
Henry Rivera
Trust me on this I bailed in my twenties and am now a successful lawyer who plays jazz + writes indie albums on the side while my friends who fell for he PhD meme are trapped teaching private lessons or at literal who community colleges at 35
Benjamin Ward
Holy crap do not get a composition PhD. Do literally anything else. t. "professional" classical musician
Adam Stewart
How long would it take to get the PhD? Do you plan on doing this for the rest of your life? If so, go for it. I don't see any downside to it.
Actually, one potential issue is that your PhD would be in a somewhat narrow field, which restricts your mobility.
Jeremiah Stewart
>bail on the PhD immediately. you will not get a job and you’ll be broke and fucking miserable. Become a dev work for 3 years then get a comfy remote coding job and compose music for vidya Yeah my gut is telling me to be skeptical about going all in on a composition PhD, but my friend got one and he now works at a university and enjoys his life. I've also been told by a few older classical musicians to go in on a PhD and see what happens as they think my comps are good enough to make it into the academic circuit (two of them premiered this summer)
But when I really think about it, I just don't see how I would make enough money to support a family doing this. The chances of me getting a professorship seem low, especially as universities continue to go fucking insane.
Are you able to get your music heard anywhere in your position? My only concern is that it will be hard if I'm not in the academic institution. A few musicians have performed my pieces but it's not the same as getting it promoted through the colleges like some of my peers.
But I also don't want to be a loser teaching private lessons for $15 an hour for the rest of my life with a wife who resents me for not making enough money
and I know that charles Ives was a insurance salesman who published his classical music on the side
It would take 3 years to get the PhD. It's a dual masters/phd program at a pretty prestigious university
Charles Flores
>t. "professional" classical musician What happened? Did you get a PhD?
What are you doing now?
Levi Sanchez
I have a lifestyle which I enjoy, but honestly if I had put the same amount of effort and study into any other industry I would be making more money. Unless you have a specific job already lined up (I had already been hired part time by the time I left uni) forget about teaching 3rd level, it's an absolute shit show.
Gabriel Stewart
3 years is pretty quick for a PhD. So I say get the PhD. But you might also want to learn to code on the side as well. I got a PhD in a social science field. What made me employable (outside of academia) was the fact that I specialized in quantitative research and knew statistics well. You want to learn skills that are useful across disciplines so you won't be stuck within your narrow area of expertise.
Bentley Fisher
>I would be making more money Would you trade more money for what you are doing? Like would you trade your position to work in tech and just do music on the side?
>Have a job lined up I would most likely just teach at a private music school and stuff like that >forget about teaching 3rd level What is 3rd level exactly? Like university?
Luckily I do have experience in website design, but only like 5 websites in my portfolio. I wanted to get my foot in the door of doing web design and maybe do a bit of that while I'm in college. There are blockchain companies opening up in my city.
I would be graduating at the age of 31, the PhD program also has a focus in "technology", like music software and you also do film scoring and video game scoring projects in the program.
My major concern is that I am going to get out of school at 31 and just end up having to do tech anyway, and I will have wasted a lot of money and time doing music when I could have been getting my foot in the door to blockchain technology companies
You need to do something you feel passionate about while acquiring useful skills at the same time. You can probably do both: get the PhD in music (with a focus in tech) and get involved with blockchain while you work on the degree. Learn to code on your spare time.
Don't forget that blockchain might be a fad. Ten years from now the tech industry might have moved onto something completely different, yet demand for composers will always exist.
Owen Foster
I forgot to mention: I taught myself how tcode in R as a PhD student. My research was heavily quantitative and I had a tech background just like you (website design), so I thought coding in R (a language for stats) could be an useful skill to have. Thanks to that I became employable and received job offers from outside of academia. I never took R coding courses while working on the PhD. My professors had zero quantitative skills, so I had to learn it on my own. You can do that too if you're passionate about it.
Angel Fisher
>Would you trade more money for what you are doing? No I'm pretty comfy. BUT if I was young, pursuing CS with music on the side would be very tempting. Some of the best professionals I know did a non-music undergrad degree and it didn't seem to hurt their playing. >what is 3rd level University. College. Etc. As far as I can see the industry is in the middle of a contraction across the western world (maybe worldwide, I don't know). There are less and less posts and more and more wannabe professors. I blame Harry Potter.
Grayson Russell
>University. College. Etc. As far as I can see the industry is in the middle of a contraction across the western world (maybe worldwide, I don't know). There are less and less posts and more and more wannabe professors. I blame Harry Potter. Do you think it's possible that music is dying altogether?
My classical teacher said zoomers aren't interested in music in general and that universities across the board are seeing a huge dip in enrollment, with things like arts and humanities being hit the hardest.
This makes me think maybe Music will just disappear from universities completely and be left in a lot of these tacky-ish private schools.
So did your PhD end up helping you in your career? Or did you end up doing a career only using your coding skills?
And what was your PhD in?
Michael Clark
>bail on the PhD immediately. you will not get a job and you’ll be broke and fucking miserable this user. what you are trying to do is so fucking niche it is BEYOND INSANE. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT KIND OF A PhD and YOU WILL NEVER EARN ENOUGH TO PAY IT OFF. Molecular Biology PhD's at least pay slave tier wages, no fuckin way that PhD would pay anything, it will cost a fucking fortune. DON'T DESTROY YOUR FUTURE. if you are truly talented run it on your own. figure out how to market yourself through youtube or some shit. in the long run you will probably be better off with working as a carpenter.
Luis Rodriguez
>I don't see any downside to it. how fucking ignorant are you? no downside to it beside a tremendous opportunity cost and dropping a fuckton of $$$ on school?
Blake Sanchez
>Do you think it's possible that music is dying altogether? Nope. Look at, for example, twosetviolin on youtube. As far as I can see zoomers are more into music, including art music, than millenials were. Uptake for kid's instrumental lessons seems strong. Ofc that could change in a broad economic downturn.
What is in trouble is the university system in general (not just music) , and traditional classical institutions like symphony orchestras.
Nathaniel Phillips
Well the only thing is that you need a PhD for access to a lot of the classical institutions, programs and teaching positions.
To get your compositions performed by orchestras or by classical soloists these days, they usually need to be approved by the university system, and this requires a PhD. Although I have had 2 of my pieces premiered by other musicians on my own without the university... but I hear what you're saying.
Yeah that's true, many people I talk to tell me they listen to classical on their spotify all the time and previously had never listened to it.
I know stuff like "Rock guitar lessons" are doing well for younger kids, but I also see the classical institutions taking a hit. I know theaters are closing down.
Maybe classical music will adapt to musicians performing in more normal venues like art galleries, that's what I do occasionally. Doesn't pay much besides maybe $100-$150 from door sales though
Jackson Cruz
Couldn't you do both?
Jace Hughes
How many times do gooks need to be reminded that they're not white?
Gabriel Anderson
Only someone as disconnected as a professor can believe that music is dying. Music is a human characteristic, people can't just lose interest. The fact is that the panorama is changing, just like in every other industry. People get their music ideas from youtube more than from school nowadays, just like people buy more and more stuff online rather than in physical shops. Is shopping dying? Nope, it's just changing, but a retailer might think so if he's living under a rock.
Noah Ramirez
>Only someone as disconnected as a professor can believe that music is dying. Music is a human characteristic, people can't just lose interest. The fact is that the panorama is changing, just like in every other industry. People get their music ideas from youtube more than from school nowadays, just like people buy more and more stuff online rather than in physical shops. Is shopping dying? Nope, it's just changing, but a retailer might think so if he's living under a rock Oswald Spengler believed western high-art had already achieved everything it set out to achieve, and it would now dissolve into individuals pointlessly making music for small circles of connoisseurs until the west spiritually dissolves completely.
It is true that Wagner was the last classical composer who actually had culturally driving force
Brayden Turner
Not just "rock guitar". The real nerd shit too. Oboe. French horn. YouTube videos about microtonal harmony with hundreds of thousands of views
Ian White
>want to be musician >spend all my time becoming a professor How the fuck do you think having a PhD will make you a better musician? If you want a successful career you need to write music people care about. Work on music. Treat it like a business. You want to do classical? Find where the money is at there, and work to get your piece of the pie. I don’t know much about it but I’m guessing film/tv/game scores is your honey pot. Go find some indie opportunities, offer to work for free. Get yourself out there, start networking, write as much as possible.
And at your age you have about a 5 year timeline before you have to make a choice between music and supporting yourself for real, so if by then you aren’t making enough from music you are fucked, meaning a PhD route guarantees being fucked.
Oh, and get off this board.
Hunter Rivera
>Oswald Spengler believed western high-art had already achieved everything it set out to achieve, and it would now dissolve into individuals pointlessly making music for small circles of connoisseurs until the west spiritually dissolves completely. source?
Josiah Martinez
>How the fuck do you think having a PhD will make you a better musician? It gains you access to institutions, most of the modern contemporary composers have a PhD
Generally classical music's revenue is driven by lessons and everything else is supplemental income unless you really get something going writing for advertisements/video games/indie films. The PhD just lets you teach in more prestigious institutions which gains you access to more pretigious music halls ect. ect.
>get off this board why?
Kevin Miller
His book decline of the west
>1920: Fine art is over as a Western tradition. (1.VII.10) >The Western aesthetic, “fine art”, has achieved what it set out to express and has nothing left to accomplish. Art will no longer be able to be characterized as a well-defined thing with shared characteristics across the West, but will be a matter of schools, individuals, and mere commercial design. Borrowings from non-Western sources will become unavoidable. >Prediction came true: Yes. This wasn’t a very difficult thing to figure out by 1915-1920, honestly. Spengler names Wagner as the last identifiable fine artist — not an uncontroversial choice, he admits, but certainly a poignant one.
>It is true that Wagner was the last classical composer who actually had culturally driving force Weird and blatenly false. Debussy, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff etc etc etc were and remain hugely important figures. Not to mention every single film composer who ever lived. Oh let me guess, you don't consider John Williams to be "culturally significant"
Caleb Lewis
John Williams is not culturally significant and is musically a complete joke
The composers you mentioned were great but also not very culturally significant besides having a short lived spike and being a curious entertainment for people in their time. The impressionists are more enjoyed by fellow musicians than by normies of their day
Jonathan Gomez
>Don't forget that blockchain might be a fad. Ten years from now the tech industry might have moved onto something completely different
Every major tech company and every nation is in a mad rush to research and integrate blockchain tech into their infrastructure. How you can say this on a LINK board is beyond me.
Cameron Turner
i need to eat dubus ass
Colton Edwards
>How you can say this on a LINK board is beyond me.
This is a Bitcoin board. Back to r/ChainLink you go.
William Kelly
Why can't you learn2code while studying for music? Honestly, I'm a full-time developer now, went to school for International Business. Learned a language on the way, after school, to near fluency. Yet, I haven't really used my degree for work minus an internship I had with a finance firm. If you're driven you can do both, you might have to drop hanging out with lazy people though.
Brody Ward
>deciding if I should keep pursuing classical music or give up and go into software development Do both! Ai composes music magenta.tensorflow.org/ Some of the best programmers in the world have musical backgrounds. "programming is about thinking not typing" Rich Hickey
Instead of blockchain I recommend you look into AI companies. Having an ai help you compose music could produce techniques that can be generalized to serve industry.
You could look at doing your Phd on using ai to assist music composition. This helps you by giving you coding skills + still get you the benefits of your music phd.
I personally forsee a massive bull market in ai + human generated music + events. The experience of an event with music that fits your own personal subculture can't be replaced by pixels on a screen.
If you want some examples of how ai can produce music in creative ways I can elaborate to give you a sense of what is possible.
Robert Roberts
What you mean is, they weren't german.
Liam Robinson
That is the definition of a fad
Brody Cox
same. if i ever make it from Link i will move to korea to offer her all my money to give her a 24h rimjob
do you really think there are women on this board you stupid weeb
Ryan Lewis
kek
Brandon Kelly
why is Dubu so opular on Jow Forums, dububros? THere are girls in the kpop industry who are much more popular in general like tzuyu, lisa and jennie. but on Jow Forums its 50% Dubu, the difference between mainstream and Jow Forums perception is incredible. we have multiple anons itt alone who wanna eat her ass (including me, i think she is the most beautiful girl on the planet) who can explain this phenomenon?
2% of jobs in the marketplace require a Ph. D. The majority of those are academia. In my country, 7500 Ph D's are awarded every year, but there's only 7500 Ph. D positions available at any given time. Therefore, most people with Ph. D's are chronically underemployed and underskilled for their investments. No one gives a fuck about classical music, there is no investment in classical music outside of municipalities investing into their orchestra's- so good luck landing one of the handful of positions that arise every decade for new positions in the Orchestra. Except I know people with decent bachelor degrees in music who also got into the orchestra, alongside Ph. D's- $40 000 degree vs the $80-100 000 degree yet they make the same money.
If you are going to do a Ph. D, do it solely because you want to have 'Doctor' in your name OR do it because you have your finger on the pulse of the next great amazing music-industry related thing, and slip into marketing/music production for a major record label that produces rap and pop music.
t. Ph. D candidate.
Kayden Ramirez
I don't know who she is. I'm barely aware of kpops existence. But i would stick my tongue right up her ass and wiggle the tip around.
>the next great amazing music-industry related thing, and slip into marketing/music production for a major record label that produces rap and pop music. hahahahaha! the state of phdcucks!
Camden Howard
How do PhD's work outside of science? I made drugs for mine and got offers from pharma for 6 figs. Got a stipend during my time too, wasn't much but I lived comfortably, didn't have debt and was able to put a bit in crypto before it took off. Do people actually pay to get PhDs?
Hunter White
If any institution suggests you pay them to do doctoral work there, it's a scam or you don't deserve the Ph. D. You should pay for your undergraduate, and by the time you are done your undergraduate you should have accrued enough tenured signatures to land yourself in a graduate program that will pay you to be there. If you need to pay for your Masters, you are not smart enough for a Masters- same for a Ph. D. There are universities out there with too much money and no where to spend it because they've not invested whatsoever into new education methods, but rather expanding a bloated University administration and bureaucracy. There's billions of dollars locked up in research grants, bursaries, etc.. Across almost all Ph. D fields- it's not simply STEM. However, the era of being exceptionally gifted and talented at writing/speaking and getting a faculty position right out of University is long gone.
Gavin Smith
How do I find plastic gook whores and get them to let me hump them?
Hunter Baker
d-dubu i-is not a whore that gets passed around elites of seoul r-right? pls tell me shes not
>However, the era of being exceptionally gifted and talented at writing/speaking and getting a faculty position right out of University is long gone. I can't imagine how bad it is now. When I did mine some people were the biggest mouth breathers and I was amazed they were in the program. Recently found out the university I went to has started a new policy where they have to interview all females applying for a faculty position before any males.
William Watson
Wait, it's normal to get paid to earn a master's and phd? I thought it was like undergrad where you pay for the classes they require, then just have to write some disertation for approval at the end. What universities do this? How do I get in on it? t. undergrad who eventually wants a master's or higher in neuroscience
Jason Butler
>John Williams is not culturally significant OK kid
David Parker
Dude, if you're still here, listen to me now! Follow your heart, develop your creative inner self and walk your own path - the path you make!. Stop stressing out about the far future and providing for your family. Do music composition now, follow your dream and go for it 100%. Work hard for it and build your network. If you want to do it, you can do it! Look - it's better to take this risk. You only got one life. Live it to the fullest - by developing your passion! IF it doesn't work out, just if, then you will find a way man. You can still do something else for money than. You are like water. You'll find a way. But you have to take the risk now! You have to take a leap of faith!
