What are some small time investment options to make passive income? Talking 10-20 thousand dollars.
Not really keen on crypto.
What are some small time investment options to make passive income? Talking 10-20 thousand dollars
Robert Kelly
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Justin Davis
Boomer rocks
Christian Clark
>investing in boomers
Shit like rhodium probably isn't a bad idea. Anything involved in catalysis is big money.
Ayden Turner
REIT or REIT ETF
Managed microlending - or, if you have the time and energy - Microloan note trading.
Luke Rogers
>REIT or REIT ETF
REITs sound like a good idea. How long would it take to re-coup my initial investment?
>Managed microlending
I see these peer-to-peer lending services, but I don't see how to become a lender, only how to apply for a loan.
I'm in NZ btw.
Matthew Morgan
>How long would it take to re-coup my initial investment?
REIT ETF's are usually liquid, so no time. just grow your money. Double your money? 10 - 11 years.
REIT - Less liquid, but it's still equity. returns average pretty high relative to most ETF and Index funds. Equity REITs are a bit more straightforward than Mortgage REITs. They respond to slightly different market pressures, so diversifying between the two isn't a bad idea. Avoid Hybrid REITs - worst of both worlds.
Return rate on REITs is better than REIT ETF and fewer fees involved. however, you'll pay taxes directly on dividends from REIT, and taxable events will be generated every time a dividend is paid, but there's ways to shuffle it to make it hurt less. I dunno about you NZ guys, I think your dividends rate is actually pretty good compared to ours. a US REIT will have to pull 30% withholding for you, though.
you can sink retruns from REIT ETF so everything is capital gains and you only generate a taxable event at sale/closure of the fund. there's weird rules about doing that across national borders, tho, so YMMV.
Aiden Hall
buy holo
Camden Reyes
>REIT ETF's are usually liquid, so no time. just grow your money.
Does that mean they're relatively low risk? We had some sort of investment corp called Blue Chip go tits up and a bunch of people lost millions. Really don't wanna end up like that.
>Double your money? 10 - 11 years.
That seems like a long time considering my initial investment would be about a year's savings.
Levi Nelson
>Does that mean they're relatively low risk?
Yes. not ETFs in general, but REITs and REIT ETFs are usually pretty stable. even during the 2008 downturn, many Equity REITs still had positive returns. Even some Mortgage REITs did as well - look for ones that don't into mortgage backed securities and you'll be safer.
>That seems like a long time
Not, it isn't. it's an extremely short time. 401K's/IRAs take 20+ years to get you there. normal markets in very good years take about the same or longer. you're looking for safe, passive income, not day-trading. 8-11% returns beats inflation multiple times over - that should actively make your dick hard.
Aaron Brown
>401K's/IRAs take 20+ years to [double your money]
Untrue. The historical return on the stock market is about 10%, with 3% inflation. That means you double your (nominal) money about every 7 years, or if you're measuring real return, every 10 years.
If your 401(k) is fully invested in stocks, on average, it'll double every 10 years.
REITs are roughly similar to stocks. Similar return, similar risk. They're just a different industry - real estate.
>passive income
There aren't many genuinely passive options. If you don't put any work into it, don't expect above-average returns, when compared with other common investments (e.g. stocks).
Stocks, various types of bonds, REITs, are all decent options. Precious metals are stupid. Jow Forums will try to sell you on crypto, which I think is mostly stupid.
Luis Rodriguez
>Untrue. The historical return on the stock market is about 10%, with 3% inflation.
Has literally nothing to do with 401K's and IRA's when most are fund-managed through employers and diversified into Large cap/ EM and Commodity markets. benchmark return on 401K's is 5% and has been for years.
Most IRA's sink into bonds which float at 5% too.
you can go aggressive on both but why would you.
>That means you double your (nominal) money about every 7 years, or if you're measuring real return, every 10 years.
Which is exactly what I said about the stock market. Thanks for reiterating.
Wyatt White
>Has literally nothing to do with 401K's and IRA's when most are fund-managed through employers
Do you actually have a 401(k)? Usually, they give you the choice of several different funds. Those options might not be enough - but usually you can find an index fund, or a low-fee stock mutual fund among them.
Also, IRAs have nothing to do with employers.
>Most IRA's sink into bonds which float at 5% too.
You can literally set up your IRA with anybody you want. If your IRA is in bonds, it's entirely because you wanted it to be in bonds.
>and diversified into Large cap/ EM and Commodity markets.
Large cap stocks, and EM are large portions of the stock market, dude.
>benchmark return on 401K's is 5% and has been for years.
Untrue. Usually, people will quote a range. Financial planners will often say "5% - 8%" or something. But that's often with a mixture of stocks and bonds. Since REITs are roughly as risky as stocks, it's best to compare them to stocks, rather than a mixture of stocks and bonds.
Secondly, 5% will double every 15 years, not every "20+ years" as you said.
>Which is exactly what I said about the stock market.
You didn't say that.
Jaxson Rodriguez
As the other dude said, technology REITs do well. Check out the growth on stocks like AMT and CCI (both cell tower companies). Data center and nursing home REITs are also clutch.
Or, fuck it, short Cracker Barrel in 10 years.
Kayden Scott
>>Double your money? 10 - 11 years.
>That seems like a long time
>Not really keen on crypto.
Well what did you fucking expect?
Why do you think this place turned into a crypto shitfest?
Because nobody wants to wait a decade to double their investments in boomer stocks.
If you don't want to wait a decade, buy Bitcoin.
Not passive income, but most likely better returns than you can get in traditional investments.
Connor Foster
>Do you actually have a 401(k)? Usually, they give you the choice of several different funds. Those options might not be enough - but usually you can find an index fund, or a low-fee stock mutual fund among them.
Yeah, but you still get charged the 401k overhead. No one is giving you retail fees inside a 401k plan structure unless you have some miracle plan manager, in which case, seriously, share.
>Also, IRAs have nothing to do with employers.
>>Most IRA's sink into bonds which float at 5% too.
True, mistyped there. IRA's still benchmark out at 5%.
You should want an IRA that goes for bonds. if your firm is batting for 10%, you should be asking serious questions. If you're batting on 10% in an IRA by managing it, you should just move to a retail index or ETF. Even Vanguard doesn't cite over 6%.
>Large cap stocks, and EM are large portions of the stock market, dude.
>The performance of the entire stock market represents the performance of individual parts
Large Cap 10, 15 and 20 year all roll out between 9 - 7%. Small-Mid Cap has been outperforming Large cap since 2000. Good luck finding a half decent small-mid fund inside a 401k that charges less than 1%.
EM has been shitting the bed lately, but I'll admit you can find funds that know how to play it well. They'll charge you stupid money to do it, but they'll do it.
>Untrue. Usually, people will quote a range. Financial planners will often say "5% - 8%" or something.
yeah, that's not what I'm talking about, but okay.
> Since REITs are roughly as risky as stocks,
lolwut
20 year average per-year returns with dividend
>FTSE NAREIT All Equity REIT Composite 20 year - 14.23%
>FTSE NAREIT All REIT 20 year - 13.48%
>NASDAQ Composite - 13.45
>DJ US Total - 10.46
>S&P 500 - 9.97
don't even get me started on rolling-20 and volatility.
Easton Gutierrez
>Yeah, but you still get charged the 401k overhead. No one is giving you retail fees inside a 401k plan structure unless you have some miracle plan manager, in which case, seriously, share.
Plan options, and fees totally depend on the package your employer offers. You can't really do anything about it, unless you can persuade your employer to modify the package.
And there are plans that basically just give you vanguard as an option, without any extra fees. I'll share, but it's not like you're going to be able to modify your employer's plan.
investor.vanguard.com
>charge $20 a year for each Vanguard fund held in a Vanguard Individual 401(k) account.
>You should want an IRA that goes for bonds.
Only if you want to invest in bonds. And most young people (most of Jow Forums) shouldn't be investing in bonds.
>Small-Mid Cap has been outperforming Large cap since 2000.
Arguably, small/mid cap stocks outperform large cap stocks. What's your point? They're also more volatile, and less liquid, which is probably the underlying reason they outperform anyway.
And the numbers I quoted (10%, with 3% inflation) were for the entire stock market. Not just small/mid caps. If you're only investing in those, you might expect 12%, or so. But you'll have to accept more risk.
>Good luck finding a half decent small-mid fund inside a 401k that charges less than 1%.
Fair point. They're not that common, and your options are often limited.
>[REITs have outperformed S&P 500, thus they are less risky]
And bitcoin has outperformed both, does that make it less risky? Obviously, risk/volatility and return are two separate things.
I looked it up. I've attached an image, which seeks to measure the beta of REITs, compared to the total US stock market. It indicates that REITs had an average beta of about 0.8 over the past several decades. So a bit less risky/volatile than the stock market.
Nolan King
>He wants to talk volatility
bro, i need to go to bed, fuck. why can't Jow Forums have good fucking threads at a reasonable time of the day.
but I'll leave you with pic related.
I dunno what you have against REIT's, but you sound like you know what you're doing, so just - invest in some. it really can't hurt.
user talked about Tech REIT's on celltower build and lease-out, and he's right - if you want high yield for the next few years, it's not a bad idea. ETF it if you want to stay liquid.
Elijah Campbell
I'm guessing you won't see this until tomorrow, and it'll be too late to respond, but anyway:
>I dunno what you have against REIT's
I'm not against REITs. They provide a return that's roughly equivalent to the stock market's return.
And for diversification/risk-reduction purposes, it would be a significant mistake for someone to own nothing but REITs, and a minor mistake for someone to own no REITs. Owning nothing but the stock market would probably force someone to take excess risk.
I just took issue with your claim that 401(k)s take 20+ years to double, while REITs take 10-11 years to double. That isn't really true. Plus, the tax situation is better for a 401(k) than a REIT. Not to mention, the two aren't totally exclusive. You can own REITs in your 401(k) if your employer offers a REIT fund as an option (for example, VGSLX, which is not just an ETF, but also a vanguard fund). However, this totally depends on your employer's plan - they can offer your a REIT fund, or not. Depends on what they decide.
>super low beta for certain REITs
I have no specific information on any of those REITs, but it's totally possible to find stocks with betas like 0.28. Loads of them. In general, it's either because they are low-risk stocks, or because their risk is largely uncorrelated with the market. If I had to guess, I'd guess that those REITs are in the same category.
Luke Campbell
>not keen on crypto
Well, if you change your mind you might want to look at a project called Orion Protocol. It connects all these exchanges. Even if you don't want to hold crypto, you can be sure the companies that deal in them will be profitable for the foreseeable future.
Ian Mitchell
Pimping hoes!
Gavin Morgan
buy kraft heinz stock, undervalued right now plus 5,5% dividend per year.
Jaxon Stewart
fuck you nigger
Matthew Ramirez
How do sparkling Boomer minerals earn passive income you absolute retard?
Landon Adams
why rodium?
John Miller
why rodium?