Whats Jow Forumss opinion of the Frankfurt school/critical theory...

Then I have no idea what you are talking about.

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Im saying that because of the culture the majority of the 1st world lives in, because we work for heartless machines and chase green paper without questioning anything we all become machines which are used for profit, im not saying the acquirement of money is wrong im saying chasing profit at all costs is dangerous as it can produce a culture where everyone is exactly the same, everything quickly becomes about the production and the acquirement of material possessions.

Also the majority of people are perfectly content with chasing material possessions as ignorance of the authoritarian, totalitarian society the live in is bliss they aren't fully aware that choice is only an illusion.

bump/

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interesting thread OP, I'll throw you a bump

Thanks dood

Communism fed more people than capitalism. It was a resounding success.

The Ironic Thing about many right-wing commentators is they apply "cultural marxism" (same thing as critical theory) without noticing it, in particular, Paul Joseph of which I'm a fan Critiqued modern art,music and culture in various ways in line with critical theroy.

Fuck off commie Go suck stalins dick.

Yes

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Both the bullshitviks and Nazis took money from Bourgeoise Wallstreet banks dood.

Capitalism killed over 1 billion people. I'm not a tankie, Thomas Sankara is an inspiration. Grain production DOUBLED under Sankara, and he cut off all foreign aid to his country and cut ties with the IMF. Burkina Faso was self-sufficient in one year. Besides, Stalin was a resounding success despite the fact he did everything wrong. Communism did everything wrong, and still got it right.

>asking Jow Forums about philosophy beyond ayn plato
nice bait, but sorry

Thats been true across all societies throughout history, the normies only wake up to tear shit down when it gets too bad, we're not there by a long shot.

No, Individuals Killed 1 gorrillian people, Capitalism is Just a title, Not to say I am a fan of capitalism I prefer free markets without any one group of people with control over the economy where no business receives subsidies or welfare.

his main point was to say fuck off. now fuck off commie nigger

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really cause recently there has been alot of normies larping as antifa and shit. Im not a fan of antifa either but society is on an express train into the shitter and i welcome the transvaluation of values it will allow.

Oh so its individualism when you do it, but when anyone just happens happens to die under communist regimes its all communism's fault. The numbers aren't even official, the only legit genocide was the Kulaks and there could be reasons as to why that was legit. Not saying it was, but they were capitalist war lords.

>More propoganda from the future neo-bourgeosie
Thanks, Im sure the Vanguard will hand its power to the working class like it promised... aaaaaaaaany minute now... Oh...now they've become crypto-fascists. At least it wasnt real communism!

Ok dood you subscribe to a meme ideology no different from the fascists.

We havent had busses full of people being burned alive, or the level of riots similar to LA. Trust me its not as bad as people are letting you on to think, otherwise it would be much much worse. Give it 2-3 decades maybe.

Yeah, i don't understand how the fuck the dictatorship of the proletariat is intended to work, it's like Marx didn't realize that every government in history has done the same thing: take money from special interests and oppress its people, aside from some odd theories i could never get behind marx.

No but we are on a cultural decline into the shitter, There hasnt been anything of worth produced in the u.s for decades.

You are the bourgeoisie you idiot. Fucking Hillary isn't out there preaching worker ownership of the mean of production is she? You are Hillary Clinton. And believe you mean, when we take power, every capitalist war lord like Elon Musk... well, better not to think about that right now.

You literally are a fascist. Fascism is capitalism.

also freemarkets are based on Individualism, i mean Each person in a freemarket is responsible for their own actions unlike the collectivist like communism.

Individualism is a fucking and doesn't mean anything.

Im not a capitalist, I even had a whole rant a second ago bashing consumer capitalist culture.

So why the fuck are you supporting them then?

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is a fucking what? fuck off you fucking fascist,
im in support of free markets not capitalism, Im a Proudhonian anarchist.

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>whats Jow Forumss opinion of the Frankfurt school/critical theory
No one on Jow Forums has the slightest clue what that actually is, but they all have very strong opinions about it because memes.

TL;DR.

the issue with capitalism are big corporations and multinationals. Healthy competition among small and medium sized companies is good, big companies that accumulate wealth and (even political) power kill the driving force of capitalism.
Also, the two positions arent mutually exclusive: ideally you let liberalism run the market in the growth period while various degrees of fascism/socialism are introduced in the previously described scenario.

Guys stop replying to clear bait threads, just drop pills and leave.

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A meme. It doesn't mean anything. Individualism is a nonsense word.

>im in support of free markets not capitalism

They're not free markets and they're not anarchy. Capitalism requires hierarchy and state violence.

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Ok, Critical theory is applying many of Marx's critiques of society to society now, such as the lack of culture in western society.

agreed, pretty much what ive been trying to say to the communist here.

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I think the mass production of Goods that corporations provide should be taken over by worker co-ops myself, My main concern with this thread is to discuss consumerism in modern culture and how the average western lifestyle has become strictly about acquiring possessions without cultural substance.

Wait, why the fuck are you a critical theory supporting capitalist? I mean its not impossible, you can reconcile the two, but most of the Frankfurt school's criticisms were lobbed at capitalism for degrading culture.

Since your not a tankie You're prbly a Leninist or Marxist, Neither of these are economically viable and honestly, you should probably just kill yourself.

>Didnt adress my argument
>Brought up a flimsy movement just to pin me as the other
>Still blurts out banal platitudes featuring the "working but will never see the means of production" class
>Brought to you by the Vanguard-like the bourgeosie, but no because we say so!
Yup, thats a communist!
Exactly. Take notes, this is what you should expect from anyone who spouts Red talking points

Because im not a capitalist you fucking idiot! have you ever read Proudhon? I support free markets without institutional hierarchy you twat.

Could make this joke better by asking a commie and a libertarian why the chicken cross the road, only to have the commie ask "what's a chicken ?" and the libertarian "what's a road ?".

> You are the bourgeoisie you idiot. Fucking Hillary isn't out there preaching worker ownership of the mean of production is she? You are Hillary Clinton. And believe you mean, when we take power, every capitalist war lord like Elon Musk... well, better not to think about that right now.

God damn that was cringe, I'm not even a shillary,trump or bernie supporter they were all capitalist shills.

>I'm just saying that it seems everything in our daily lives has become prepackaged not unlike a product.
That's because it's way the fuck cheaper. Custom things take proportionally more resources and much more time to make

Tankies are Marxist-Leninists. I'm a Libertarian Socialist more partial to Emma Goldman, but I don't think authoritarianism doesn't have its place where needed because of political reality. Also, Marxist-Leninism is economically viable. You can argue about how economically viable, but its undeniable the USSR, Cuba and Burkina Faso did function as states. I mean, the USSR was the prime competitor with the fucking US.

Well, there's two sides here. One who wants to keep the means of production private, and one wants them to be controlled by workers. Clearly you're not on the latter side.

nice kek, see libertarians can take a joke commies don't understand dark humor because its like food, some people just dont get it.

> libertarian socialist

ok i got you.

> Emma Goldman ok I'm losing you

> authoritarianism ussr economically viable.

annnnndddd i lost you, I think a few people would disagree with you,(pic related) and I do think it should be owned by the workers just not exclusively, to deny an individual the right to their own business is denying a basic freedom.

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The real question is would you even care about excess capital if it didn't affect you personally.

The only reason that widening income and wealth disparity is so offensive right now is because of scale and context. Scale being that if you can extract even one cent each from 7 billion people one time you're already worth $70MM. Context being that due to the anti-localist trend, our friends and family are forced to go along with this without demanding PROPORTIONAL benefits.

Its not pragmatic at all, all that happens is a changing of hands of who owns production, and once again the masses never recieve it.

I'm Mostly concerned with the Huge canyon between the filthy rich and the proletariat, in terms of lifestyle, I'm not a promoter of a welfare state as that really isn't that productive, I just think our society should become more intellectually cultured, we should be less concerned with the pursuit of material possessions and more oriented towards personal development. If someone has a million dollars in their account i don't care, I just think our culture sucks.

>Well, there's two sides here. One who wants to keep the means of production private, and one wants them to be controlled by workers. Clearly you're not on the latter side.
You write like a child, how about you sort yourself out before trying to impose your childish ideology on the world, who do you think you are exactly ? clean your fucking room & learn some humility.

The US is fine in regards to innovation, look at the level of tech and research being done, not to mention the astounding levels of human capital, the question is will the people demand a return to a culture oriented system? Will they simply balkanize due to cultural rifts? Will they not care at all? Time will reveal the answer.

Forgot to mention the problem of usury in western culture, these two things are what I'm mainly concerned with.

I'm not speaking of Technological innovation although that does have a part of it I'm talking about the rampant pursuit of the lifestyle that advertising has us chasing.

They were economically viable whether you like or not. The problem with the USSR isn't really what it *could* do, but rather what Stalin *chose* to do. Same with Mao Zhang He could have listened to scientists and not believed in Lamarchism. He could have chose not to exterminate the sparrows. He could've avoided famine, but he didn't, because he was a fucking idiot. I don't believe in marxist-leninism because its a stupid ad-hoc theory that Stalin invented to legitimize his rule. Lenin wouldn't have agreed with it.

Collective ownership of the means of production is very pragmatic. What isn't pragmatic is private industry needing to spend billions in advertising simply to get people to buy their crap for the sake of exploiting laborers and consumers.

He says, while defending one side.

Agreed in that regard, but thats America when you have so many different identities, it was far less of a problem when we were more homogenous though, Putnam has some crazy revelations in his studies on diversity.

Ok, You have to have a populace of Happy people to be economically viable.

Like I said, in similar fashion with EVERY society founded on those principles, the means never reach collectivization or anything remotely close to colectively governed. No society can exist founded against some form of hierarchy, hence why all these societies become ruled by an oligarchal few.

Im saying that we have all become the same because of Hyper-corporatocracy/ hyper-capitalism.

really makes you think

now, being real, more than communism I think that's the consequence of the industrialization process, europe was hit as hard as russia and china, i think anyone here has read at least dickens or your country equivalent, eg verga for italy. US is really the only exception but it benefited from all kinds of advantages, from a fresh new land to slaves

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Usury is the bridge that connects good new ideas to good old ideas. The problem, again, is scale, when some usurers become so outsized that their principle (the money they lent out) is no longer at risk. Look up debt jubilee. Usury with risk makes the world go around. Usury without risk needs to go in the gas chamber.

yeah The U.s has become a Nation of Nihilistic working/consuming slaves that chase a Piece of paper that isn't worth anything.

And they very well could have had that. There's no reason why not. Marxist-Leninism is just one of a million ways of achieving communism.

They've reached collectivization of labour multiple times. USSR, Cuba, Paris Commune (the OGs), Hungary Commune, Burkina Faso. Not to mention that farming in the EU is essentially collectivized today. The government pays farmers a set price for agricultural produce to hedge against market forces on an essentially inelastic product and to protect the environment. This happens in Britain, France and so on. Fucking Saudi Arabians just buying land in Europe to raise horses are earning millions because they "protect the environment". I'm saying, take that fucking land off them, they're exploiting the people.

I'm In agreement with jubilee But after the jubilee a new economic system should arise please read the wiki page on mutualism/Proudhon itll give you a bit of an idea of what my ideal would be,

Dood go back to your dorm room and smoke some more pot, You're not convincing anyone here.

What and you are? The fucking racist, megalomaniac, raging anti-semites who want to enslave women and kill anyone not cis-straight fascists here are just going to become freedom loving hippies because you enlightened them with your wisdom?

No, they were still overseen by an oligarchical government that clearly exploited them and denied them basic things that capitalism gave its citizens for far less, none of the communes you stated managed to survive since they still relied on the non communist surrounding areas, not to mention the nations that you stated failing to maintain any stability on the global stage.
There you go labeling again.

>chase a Piece of paper
I agree, but it's only on the extreme middle fringe that the paper really affects your life.
People who have much less money than they need don't care about the value of money, and people who have much more money than they need don't care about the value of money.
It's only the people who are in that extreme middle fringe who care about how much a piece of paper is worth.

Now think about welfare. Everyone tells you it's socialism. It's not. Welfare is capitalism trying to push the people who don't care about money because they don't have enough, far enough up into the extreme middle fringe that they suddenly have a reason to care. Welfare is capitalist.

> don't care about the value of money.

Thats the problem with the invention of credit came the rampant consumerism.

You're overseen by an oligarchical government that forces you to either work, magic up enough money to buy the means of production and join them or starve. And like I said, I don't really agree with marxist-leninism. Its too heavy handed against the working class and its a dictatorship. No they didn't manage to survive because the capitalists did everything they could to destroy them. Fuck, in the case of Burkina Faso, the fucking French government orchestrated a coup and killed Thomas Sankara and put their own stooge on the throne for 27 years because he wanted Burkina Faso to not have to rely on French loans. Apparently, 27 years of capitalist dictatorship and rampant corruption is fine for the French, but withdrawing from the IMF and refusing foreign aid? Now that's just taking it too far!

>There you go labeling again.

Yeah, I will label the fucking fascists on this board. Maybe not you personally, but this board... wellll, its not the least sympathetic towards the NSDAP.

>You live in an oligarchical government
Thats a case of whataboutism, I merely denied your claim that any of the regimes you mentioned ever succeeded in terms of granting the means of the priductive to a collective instead of an oligarchical state, and therefore could never become classless or stateless.

Credit has always existed.

Frankfurt School is a CIA psyop.

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Well I'm not marxist-leninist am I? I support proportional representation. I don't want a single dictator, I think it would be better to simply put that the workers own the means of production in a constitution rather than enshrine that value in one """"""""infallible""""""""" leader. But they could've become classless and stateless once the dictator outlived his usefulness.

The new propaganda is that KJU is a visionary and is on the verge of elevating his people into the modern world. Your picture is old propaganda. Kindly end your life quietly without harming anyone else.

>The new propaganda is that KJU is a visionary and is on the verge of elevating his people into the modern world.
Implying this isn't 100% truth

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Who was implying that?