/esg/ Ethnostate General

Our aim is not to become a totalitarian dictatorship, our aim is to just get the damn thing started.

>The United States as of now is under complete and total control from a small international clique of shady figures. Anyone who gets in their way is pushed aside.

>except for us, teehee
>if we all move here they'll totally let us secede and establish a white ethnostate on their borders

You fags come to Jow Forums every couple months and do your rounds honeypotting white nationalists and trying your best to compromise legitimate efforts to fight back against the people controlling our country.

Just stop.
Find a better way to sell your merch and promote your podcast.
Or if you don't want to be a bunch of kikes, how about doing something useful, maybe working on disseminating some actual material that lays a foundation for your philosophy. Something outsiders can read and sympathize with.
The fact that you focus so much on targeting existing white nationalists is why everyone calls you a bunch of glow in the dark faggots

Sage these threads

BUMP

(((fellow white)))

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>The United States as of now is under complete and total control from a small international clique of shady figures. Anyone who gets in their way is pushed aside.

>except for us, teehee
>if we all move here they'll totally let us secede and establish a white ethnostate on their borders

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Seriously, look at the history of literally every single national socialist, facist, and communist group. Look at how the power structure became corrupt and wretched from the beginning, how even those who fit the criteria of being ideologically pure and faithful ended up being killed off.

Look at how in every revolution the first wave is always the second target of the inevitable mass purge, because those in power view the true believers as a threat and dispose of them like the useful idiots they are. Look at the history of every single natsoc or white identitarian group in the United States or around the world, look at how much infighting occurs within them, how back backstabbing happens. Look at how they are constantly breaking apart and feuding and shittalking each other. Do you truly believe that this movement for an ethnostate would end differently from any of these things?
Your aim is to get the damn thing started you say, but understand that what you are attempting to start /is/ a totalitarian dictatorship. You may not believe it, but history and the many men in similar situations who have tried to break off and form their own nations, their own parties, their own revolutions only to be dragged screaming into a dark room are proof of something.

No offense but I don't see any actual explanation, only petition's principles. If you want to explain something you have to demonstrate how an ethnostate (in which Europeans lived for 1500+ years) which identify inequality with justice (as every other traditional society do) and endogamy as one of its pillars could necessarily cause (under what natural rules ?) some kind of epiphenomenal, highly contextual form of totalitarian (what does it mean ?) and murderous society.

Because what you're doing right now is rather poor.

>legitimate efforts to fight back against the people controlling our country.
lol, hey /ptg/

>the white Zionist trying to establish a white Israel calls others kikes

Do something honest with your life.

Notice how when the claims that they make actually get called out they can never defend them.
Because the claims are bullshit, made to sell a false idea. Genuine ideas don't need to be associated with a fake "imperative".

>Let's kick the kikes out of our country
>Why?
>Because it's our country and they're fucking it up.

can i still cuck kids in vidya.

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Anyone who tries to form a white ethnostate must be a Zionist and a kike? Sounds like a Jew trying to be a faggot.

huh ? im honestly not sure what you're trying to say
everything said in this video is correct so if you can provide some evidence or something as to why you think its a """honeypot"""" that would be helpful

You don't target /ptg/, and they don't do anything to begin with.
You target every attempt to organize outside the PNW. midwest, new england, anywhere.

see>hurr there can only be one ethnostate
>don't ask me to substantiate this
>and it can only be in the pacific northwest
>don't ask me to substantiate this

Zionism/Israel = "Jews need -a- homeland"
Literally the same thing NWF says.

So If anyone wants to make an ethnostate to promote the health of their kind they're automatically a Zionist who wants to be Israel? Grow the fuck up dude. Even if all immigration from non European countries were to cease, whites would still be outcompeted in birth rates in the U.S.

I'm not sure why I'm trying to talk seriously even desu, there's a high as fuck chance that the other people in this thread are LARPers or are so fanatical in their beliefs that they are incapable of introspectation and understanding what they want to create.
This ethnostate would become a nightmarish police state due to the requirements of an ethnostate existing in the first place: A 'pure' nation with the enemy figure cast out or killed off. You cannot do this without force, and to organize that level of force you would have to resort to a non democratic form of government. If there is one truism it is that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Eventually, as the goals of implementing this ethnostate are achieved, in order to maintain power the leaders and cabals in control would need to focus on internal enemies, supposed traitors that exist for the pupose and creating a climate of fear so power can be maintained.

Trying to draw a comparison between Europeans and what I'm talking about is pointless and has nothing related at all; I'm talking about how in a state that is essentially revolutionary, a dictatorship is inevitable.

Then you fight to the death , at the very least you know you didn't go down without a fight.

The USA will fracture eventually simply because of the bloated debt anyway, how the fuck will the USA afford a domestic war and why would they in the first place, i just couldn't see such nonsense happening.

Go to the NWF website and see how they talk about it for yourself.

When I say they're trying to create a white Israel I'm being serious. Israel was created as a singular ethnostate for Jews. Singular.

Really, an ethnostate would become a nightmarish police state? You mean like Japan? Or Poland? Or Israel? Keep trying dude.

The plan is to set up in one area and then get the whole pie.

And so fucking what? If they share similarities that makes them the fucking same? I guess that makes America a socialist nation because we have certain health care industries as well, then?

Disregard that flag, not sure why I changed it. My points still stand.

>how the fuck will the USA afford a domestic war and why would they in the first place
They'll be able to afford it a hell of a lot better than whatever community would be in the PNW.

What makes you think that just because I don't support centralizing our resistance to one location, I'm not gonna fight?

>You cannot do this without force
So? Force is necessary, just look at how America was founded...Through FORCE
>you would have to resort to a non democratic form of government
Thank fucking God. Democracy is the absolute worst form of govt., as you just laid out, it is not even capable of protecting its own citizens.
>in order to maintain power the leaders and cabals in control would need to focus on internal enemies, supposed traitors that exist for the pupose and creating a climate of fear so power can be maintained.
Why? You make these baseless accusations and just seem to skip over the whole "why" question.
>how in a state that is essentially revolutionary, a dictatorship is inevitable.
See: Founding of America.

You're replying without having read anything I said.

Please point out to me where Japan, Poland or Israel committed mass murder and forced migration on the level that a white ethnostate would require to remove the other from their nation.

>then get the whole pie
I'll wait for you to clarify that part of the plan.

>If they share similarities
No, what makes them the fucking same is that they're the fucking same.

>The Northwest Front is a political organization of Aryan men and women who recognize that an independent and sovereign White nation in the Pacific Northwest is the only possibility for the survival of the White race on this continent.
Straight from the front of their website.

bump

Well you're complaining about the means used to go through with it without offering any alternatives. You think once we have the power to do so we're just going to start killing people without restraint?

If you create ethnostates too spread out amongst America, we'll be picked off one at a time. But if you concentrate your numbers in a single area and force it to be under control, then when the USA inevitably crumbles we can swiftly take it under control again together.

>force is necessary
Yes, unfortunately there are hundreds of more examples through history where those who used force were only too happy to turn on themselves after achieving their goals.
>Thank fucking God. Democracy is the absolute worst form of govt., as you just laid out, it is not even capable of protecting its own citizens.
What system of government would you purpose to replace it with that assured the rights and freedoms of its citizens without having systems of secret police, cultures of fear, and slave labor in it?
>Why? You make these baseless accusations and just seem to skip over the whole "why" question.
I answered the "Why" quite clearly by pointing out the history of virtually every single other revolutionary group in the past 100 years. Thinking "This time it will work, this time we'll do it right and properly!" is literally the same delusion socialists have.
>see: Founding of America
The founding of America and American revolution were a completely different situation and had entirely different motivations and reasons than that which would be fought for the establishment of a white ethnostate.

>what makes them the fucking same is that they're the fucking same.
That's an idiotic generalization. Is Japan Israel now? I don't get what point you're trying to make. I agree with what they state in their description

It wouldn't happen, a domestic war would be fucking suicide for them, there's far too much at stake for them to do such a thing.

An ethnostate is just a start to building society in the way the founding fathers built it , i'm not sure what your gripe is other than you think the US government would figuratively offthemselves by starting a domestic war lol.

Dude, you're describing pretty much exactly how Israel was founded.

>But if you concentrate your numbers in a single area
Then we'll be picked off all at once.

>when the USA inevitably crumbles we can swiftly take it under control again together.
Walk us through that part.

I have to go to the gym brb.

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I think it is possible to kill enemies without becoming g totalitarian dictatorship. Why wouldn't it?

>Well you're complaining about the means used to go through with it without offering any alternatives.
That's because, put bluntly, there are not any alternatives.
>You think once we have the power to do so we're just going to start killing people without restraint?
My man, I'm sure there are plenty of people who lived in the former Soviet Union or Nazi Germany who thought that once the government had shifted, things would calm down and become peaceful again only to end up dead down the line.

Do you really think that those controlling the revolution will just step down?

>This ethnostate would become a nightmarish police state due to the requirements of an ethnostate existing in the first place: A 'pure' nation with the enemy figure cast out or killed off.

Why do you put 'pure' between parenthesis ? What would be an impure nation ? Besides, very nations blossomed through a positive funding myth, which identified inequality with justice. Greek democracy excluded anyone who didn't speak Greeks from citizenship, and was funded on the platonician noble lie, ie a myth asserting the endogamic nature of its people, linked to a common soil and blood ; did they start to murder any barbaroi who entered their land ? I don't think so.

> You cannot do this without force

But every nation on Earth require an act of primitive violence to fund its justice and law in order to ensure its strenght. It's a fundational violence that does not necessarily equates with totalitarianism.

> and to organize that level of force you would have to resort to a non democratic form of government. If there is one truism it is that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

Those are empty shells statements. What do you mean by "corrupt" ? Democracy has always been corrupted (see Aristotle analysis on the different form of governement), as well as every other model, which were openly funded on an ethnical and endogamic pillar concerning its funding myth. But did they transform themselves into horrific nazi or sovietic-style form of governement ? I don't think so.

> in order to maintain power the leaders and cabals in control would need to focus on internal enemies, supposed traitors that exist for the pupose and creating a climate of fear so power can be maintained.

There's something that we call the law. What makes you say there'll be no codex or justice in this new state ?

>a domestic war would be fucking suicide for them
They already did it once.
>there's far too much at stake for them to do such a thing.
For them to stop the creation of a white ethnostate which directly threatens their existence? Please clarify.

You seem to not be familiar with how the US government works.
They don't "start" anything. They come in and "save the day". And the masses cheer them and fawn over the soldiers that carry out the task.

What do you mean "picked off"? You think the government is going to just drop bombs on our heads?
>Walk us through that part.
If all whites were to retreat to a premise ethno separatist state, the rest of America would inevitably become a third world country. Detroit is living proof of that happening on a much smaller scale. Eventually, they'd all kill eachother off, and what is left would be recolonized. There's no need for some wild genocidic revolution when they can do it themselves.

>Is Japan Israel now?
Japan wasn't created to be a homeland for the Japanese.
It simply is, by nature of who's occupied it.

>I agree with what they state in their description.
Then can you substantiate it? Because they can't.
Tell us, in detail, why this is the "only" option for us to survive.

Look at the birth rates mate. It is statistically IMPOSSIBLE for us to survive if things continue as they are now and don't change.

>If all whites were to retreat to a premise ethno separatist state, the rest of America would inevitably become a third world country
You're too small of a minority and have too many white enemies.

The rest of this post is Turner Diaries fanfiction.

This guy sounds like Arcturus Mensk from Starcraft - 10/10 would form interstellar redneck empire.

a bloo bloo bloo

What is white flight. There just was never a country for all whites to move in where their homeland was flooded with pocs. If there was an ethnostate, white slight would've happened not into local suburbs but to said ethnostate.

>Why do you put 'pure' between parenthesis ? What would be an impure nation ? (snip for post length)
Those nations weren't founded on the idea of literally exterminating any opposition or subgroups within them though. Pure was between parenthesis because the definition of 'Pure' white would change and flex to eliminate people that the rulers did not like.
>But every nation on Earth require an act of primitive violence to fund its justice and law in order to ensure its strenght. It's a fundational violence that does not necessarily equates with totalitarianism.
Yes, but once again, these nations did not found themselves upon the idea of racial purity and mutual hatred of outside enemies.
>Those are empty shells statements. What do you mean by "corrupt" ? Democracy has always been corrupted (see Aristotle analysis on the different form of governement), as well as every other model, which were openly funded on an ethnical and endogamic pillar concerning its funding myth. But did they transform themselves into horrific nazi or sovietic-style form of governement ? I don't think so.
I mean that in virtually every single revolution based on ideology in the past 100 years, the end result has been a nightmare of bloodshed and death. Democracy has always been corrupt, yes, but if you really are saying that it is equally as bad and corrupt as a dictatorship, that is absurd. You cannot have a democracy that literally considers some humans less human than others without compromising on ideals and going down a very slippery slope very fast.
>There's something that we call the law. What makes you say there'll be no codex or justice in this new state ?
There will be, but unfortunately just as happened with the Russian revolution and the Nazi assumption of power, the laws will be extreme flexible and mostly disregarded by the government itself.

>What do you mean "picked off"?
I mean exactly what YOU meant when you said picked off.

>If all whites were to retreat to a premise ethno separatist state
See? "All whites" even though you'll have a hard enough time convincing hardline white nationalists to trust you enough to abandon their homes and come build a community with you.
Now it's "All whites" that need to be convinced.

For the sake of discussion, fine, let's say you can convince us all.

Please explain why... with roughly 200 million white nationalists, in all sorts of political, administrative, and military positions... WHY we should go to the Pacific Northwest instead of marching on DC, purging the government of kikes and every other anti-white, and restoring the order that was in place when it was originally created.

>You're to small of a minority
Well, we already have almost the entire population of the states that this would be established in becoming a part of t, plus many outsiders (such as myself, a Floridian) coming to be a part of it. Don't count Canada out either. Trust me. Tons more people think this way, don't think they don't just because they aren't here shitposting.
>and have too many white enemies
What, you mean the March for our deaths liberal cucks? What the fuck are they gonna do, tolerate us to death?
>The rest of this post is Turner Diaries fanfiction
It's not. You're delusional if you think America wouldn't crumble if left to nothing but groids, spics, and cuck white guilters.

Nations are built around shared values and ideals. Your Whitelandia requires a shared worldview. The people who "white flighted" still believed in American values, not 14/88 white nationalism. Your brand is far too toxic to attract most white people.

Lol okay lets see them do it again with 20t+ debt plus a defected military over said domestic war in the first place, goodluck to the retards left with their pink dildos shoved up their asses.

Seeing as you've clearly already given up you'll be on the other side "cheering" and "fawning", i really do not care about fear mongering, you either become south africa and die or join, goodluck.

I mean holy shit...
You're now literally using the same argument that kikes use to justify mass immigration of nonwhites into white countries.
>if things continue as they are now and don't change
Why do you think this is the case?
Why do you think negroes and hispanics are equal enough to whites that they can sustain a society at the same level as us, despite every instance of their societies pointing to the opposite?
What possible reasoning can make you think things will "stay the same"?

Which do you think you'll have a harder time doing? Convincing all whites to do what you just described or what I just described. Also, don't use 200 million. You're counting women and children

>Tons more people think this way, don't think they don't just because they aren't here shitposting.
Those aren't the ones to do the legwork, and the actual legworkers are too toxic. They're people like Hammerskin nation, American Vanguard, and Identity Europa. The overwhelming majority of American whites see them as the loser larpers they are.

White nationalism was an american value for a long time.

Fair enough, I actually agree with you. This generation will be the most radical we've ever been. I see it here and in Europe. What do you propose will happen then, or what is best? I've yet to hear your solution.

>Yes, and history is replete with govts. UNABLE to use enough force to protect themselves or their people. (The result of your "solution") You Ancaps only ever see one side. Force is necessary, quit using the "force" meme, to justify inaction.
>What system of government would you purpose to replace it with that assured the rights and freedoms of its citizens without having systems of secret police, cultures of fear, and slave labor in it?
Your country has not secured your rights, has the largest surveillance agencies of any govt. ever (is run by them in-fact) and is constantly pushing hysterical propaganda onto its people, as to stoke fear and continue their support for Israeli wars. So Democracy solved none of those problems you mentioned. Not a damned one.

Now to answer your question. Simple, a Constitutional Dictatorship. The structure of which, is too long to get into here, but in short, remove the petty politics within the legislative branch, turning them into a glorified legal team and you've got a broad outline.
>I answered the "Why" quite clearly by pointing out the history of virtually every single other revolutionary group in the past 100 years. Thinking "This time it will work, this time we'll do it right and properly!" is literally the same delusion socialists have.
Every country ever was founded by a revolt/succession. Literally every fucking one. From Athens, to Rome to modern day America. To use this to justify inaction is folly. Unless you can explain to me how you intend on removing a over-bearing and tyrannical govt. without the use of force, you have no argument here.
>The founding of America and American revolution were a completely different situation
No, not really. It just disproves your argument so now you're playing games.

>using ancap flag
>supporting (((democracy)))
why? That's how we got into this dystopia and you should know that. Voting is how you can make the State violates the "rights and freedoms" of 49% of the population if 51% of indoctrinated brainlets agree. You know something is wrong when the vote of the feminist roasty who smells like weed has the same value as yours.

>You Ancaps only ever see one side. Force is necessary, quit using the "force" meme, to justify inaction.
>What system of government would you purpose to replace it with that assured the rights and freedoms of its citizens without having systems of secret police, cultures of fear, and slave labor in it?
Yes, and history is replete with govts. UNABLE to use enough force to protect themselves or their people. (The result of your "solution") You Ancaps only ever see one side. Force is necessary, quit using the "force" meme, to justify inaction.

*editing the first reply*

The debt doesn't mean anything.
How many people do you think are going to defect? You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
The news told them these are "terrorists", "insurgents", and "radicals" that are trying to break apart their country.

I don't know why I'm talking to you as if you're here in good faith.
>you've clearly already given up
If I gave up I wouldn't give a shit about what gets shilled on Jow Forums

Just because someone isn't in one of those organizations does not mean they don't hold those ideals. I'm personally an example of that. I'm not a member of any white nationalist organizations, mainly because I don't want to get v&. But I still hold very strongly to their ideals.

Keyword, "was". Nonwhites have a lot of allies, and again, the brand is too toxic. As another poster said, you're already having trouble convincing hardline neo-nazis to join your ethnostate. How will you convince the average normie? Trust me, you will need them.

You'll have to eventually if you want secession and an independent nation.

Only white europeans allowed

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>Which do you think you'll have a harder time doing?
Convincing them to do what you just described.
But it's moot, you don't need all 200 million. Or all men, rather. Just enough to fill out the ranks of the movement. The rest are the supporters in the crowd. And the remaining minority are suppressed.

If you're wondering, that's a hell of a lot less convincing than you'd need to populate a defensible and self-sustaining independent nation.

When normie will be a victim of nonwhite crime, and it will eventually happen, he will be convinced.
I have no clue what are the relations between white nationalists in the us desu, I just think white ethnostate is a desirable and implementable.

here

>If you're wondering, that's a hell of a lot less convincing than you'd need to populate a defensible and self-sustaining independent nation.
Not at all. We're not talking about going and colinizing a new world here. The states in question are already ~95% white.

You seem like you're only here to poison the well, and i'm not even certain if you're white or not honestly, so it's probably a waste of time in the first place.

How many Republicans would be okay with killing off white nationalists creating an ethnostate, that's probably your answer.

You can keep making as many excuses as you like.

>Now to answer your question. Simple, a Constitutional Dictatorship. The structure of which, is too long to get into here, but in short, remove the petty politics within the legislative branch, turning them into a glorified legal team and you've got a broad outline.
My goodness, that sounds like it's not open to abuse at all. You do know that Constitutional Dictatorships kinda ceased to be a thing when the people with emergency powers famously refused to put them down, right?
>Every country ever was founded by a revolt/succession. Literally every fucking one. From Athens, to Rome to modern day America. To use this to justify inaction is folly. Unless you can explain to me how you intend on removing a over-bearing and tyrannical govt. without the use of force, you have no argument here.
I'm not arguing against revolution, I've been arguing that the specific gearing and type of the one that is required for the establishment of a white ethnostate dooms it to falling into the trap that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany went down.
>No, not really. It just disproves your argument so now you're playing games.
My man, a group rebelling against foreign colonization and taxation cannot be compared to the type of revolution that the establishment of a white ethnostate would require. Last I checked, the founding fathers did not order anyone who disagreed with the specifics of their plans to be rounded up and shot in the head.
I support (((democracy))) as a better alternative than what these people would end up replacing it with. I have zero desire to be fucking murdered because I got reported to the politburo for questioning the great leaders newest decision or whatever.

These states are fairly lefty.

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Good luck to those normies living in third world shithole conditions and controlling their packs of wild gorillas i suppose.

We're making a plan to solidify. There is a lot to work out, sure.

But just because we don't have the next 20 years of this plan completely hammered out perfectly and infallibly doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Only around the big cities. Oregon is 40% red.

Police state? Totalitarianism? Stasi? Great leader? Sounds like heaven to me, it's time we give up the notion that the individual exists. Of course I don't condone any violent acts, totalitarianism can be like stasi, omnipresent but not genocidal.

You're talking about establishing a sovereign nation. It's more.
>95% white
What percent white nationalist + willing to participate in a secession movement?

> Those nations weren't founded on the idea of literally exterminating any opposition or subgroups within them though. Pure was between parenthesis because the definition of 'Pure' white would change and flex to eliminate people that the rulers did not like.

What makes you believe that a separatist ethno-state would necessarily preach on the extermination of everything that is the "other" ? All of the other forms of traditional societies was funded on the same mythical belief of a common blood and soil for its members, a common ancestral mother : it didn't necessarily implied that every other countries should be exterminated tho. There's no natural law at work here.

> Yes, but once again, these nations did not found themselves upon the idea of racial purity and mutual hatred of outside enemies.

Again, it's plainly wrong : Greeks believed in the autochtonian funding myth at the core of their polis, did that mean they "hated" on the outside ? Is xenophobia necessarily "hate" ? I don't think so.

> I mean that in virtually every single revolution based on ideology in the past 100 years, the end result has been a nightmare of bloodshed and death

Yes, but it has always been the case in every other nations, cities or tribes across the globe, be it primitive or modern. Building a new sanctuary necessarily mean to partly or completely destroy the ancient one ; countless tales and stories describe the birth of civilization through struggle and adversity. And it's pretty common, because humanity do not exercice its will in the air, free of power relationships, into an abstract and idealized field.

> You cannot have a democracy that literally considers some humans less human than others

You really don't know the Greek civilization do you ? Slaves, females, maimed, flawed... all of that into a democracy, with varying degree of humanity. And it lasted, it produced values, thinkers, civilization.

> There will be, but

Why ?

DDR didn't kill that many people. Far less than the 100 % you're suggesting.

>founded on the idea of literally exterminating any opposition or subgroups within them
What is it like having a double digit IQ?

In the end I have no actual ability to tell you what or what not to do so do your own thing. Just remember what I said and do try not to get dragged off into the night if your revolution ends up going like so many others have before.
Hold onto that thought. Totalitarianism /can/ actually theoretically work, as can a police state but a human controlled one? Fuck to the no, never ever gonna happen. One controlled by an AI maybe? Might end up being one of the better forms of government.
>it's time we give up the notion that the individual exists
Borg pls go

t. varg

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Italian flag is there,italians are white euros ofc.

No. We are constantly moving towards more and more control being possible. Just look at what the chinese are doing.

lmao you have autism

What does "Aryan" mean here? Slavs and anglos not allowed?

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The well is filled with glow in the dark faggots.

>How many Republicans would be okay with killing off white nationalists creating an ethnostate, that's probably your answer.
"How many Republicans would be okay with squashing an openly racist insurgency trying to take control of states and fracture them away from the US"
Pretty much all of them, pal. Still not catching on to how the propaganda works? Or did you think Fox News and Breitbart would actually be on our side?

>You can keep making as many excuses as you like.
Feel free to actually substantiate any of your positions.

>But just because we don't have the next 20 years of this plan completely hammered out perfectly and infallibly doesn't mean it's not a good idea.
...Yes it does...
You're telling people to leave their homes and invest in building communities for your cause.

You're supposed to be "the only ones with a real plan". That's the signature line you people continuously use here.

>You seem like you're only here to poison the well
Obviously, trust your instinct

Japan will have a word with you

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This.

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Basically white, non-semitic & non-degenerate. Read the novels, they are seriously great read.