ECONOMIST BTFO's Jow Forums ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Okay now post stats on just the illegal aliens and stop grouping them together with immigrants because they're fucking not

>implying I oppose immigration because of economics

the end of man is not material

how can they pay tax without a social security number?

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They also increase local demand, bumping up the cost of living where they are, not to mention their affect on culture.
You vote on which is more important to you.
Culture - vote right.
Economics - vote left.

>Whats the problem
Spics are subhuman mestizo savages and white Americans have to do something before the demographics look like Brazil. Genetics are destiny.

The real reason we have immigration is debt. The average person is between 40 and 70k in debt. They can’t take anymore because they can’t meet interest payments if they do. They’re debt saturated. These people can’t drive the economy because they can barely spend any money. What do immigrants not have? Debt. What can you do when an immigrant comes into the country?
You give him loans, goyim. Lots of loans with interest rates he’s too stupid to understand, which he has to pay off. And for each of these immigrants who takes a loan to buy a car, a TV, or a new pair of shoes, you can just magic money out of thin air, straight into your own pocket. And you can count both the loan itself and the items the immigrant buys in your GDP calculations so it makes it look like your GDP is growing.
But this pyramid scheme only works so long as you have a steady inflow of people without debt. Once you slow the immigration down or stop it, the economy slides into recession.
That is all the reason why there is rampant immigration.
Sweden is bringing in more immigrants because they are having growing economic problems, and they are having growing economic problems because they are bringing in more immigrants. There was a point somewhere along the line before this immigration mess, where someone said “But immigration won’t solve this fundamental issue with our banking and economic systems, we’d have to completely change how our economy works” and they were ignored, laughed at, or if they had enough influence to actually change it- killed.
The people benefiting from this don’t care. They don’t care that they will single handedly ruin the nations they’re doing this to. They don’t care that they are destroying entire cultures and the achievements of a race over the past 1000 years.
They’ll destroy it all, all of society, for a lifetime of personal hedonism and debauchery, funded on the suffering of billions.

>thinks they pay taxes if they’re illegal
Kys my dood

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lol those numbers on Syria

Western hegemony isn't cheap kiddo but its definitely better than Russian/Chinese hegemony.

I don't know much about immigration to Canada but refugees tend to pay off in the much longer term (>20 years).

>California takes 1/3rd of all federal welfare money.
Source?

Also would you rather be sending these countries aid and not getting the cheap labour of immigrants?

tf are you basing this off?

It might be but it only happens because Americas restrictive immigration laws prevent people from obtaining SS numbers legally.

Besides this is pretty much positive fraud. I imagine if someone got a job, put down your bank details and just worked you probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Wow you sure showed me. You've clearly demonstrated that having the demographics of Brazil will in no way correspond to having a Brazil-like violent, communist shithole.

>Besides this is pretty much positive fraud. I imagine if someone got a job, put down your bank details and just worked you probably wouldn't have a problem with it
It doesn't work like that. Your SS benefits are based on your income. I'd rather have white collar credit than a $6/h restaurant dishwasher.

>What are you basing this off
DUDE READ YOUR OWN FUCKING SOURCE GO BEYOND THE IMAGE TO MAKE SURE YOU AREN'T RETARDED (YOU ARE)

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Those are the numbers for aggregate legal and illegal

lmao how do you think this kind of economic analysis works?

Black average age is 33, Latino average age is 28 and white average age is 43. If you know literally anything about economics you'll know that tax burden arcs upwards over the course of ones career as they distance themselves from schooling and costs of living before a full time job and as their salary increases with work experience. This is why any tax analysis looks over a persons ENTIRE working life, not just the numbers for groups of different ages in a single year.

Also should probably point out that most tradesmen, store clerks, gardeners are tax burdens. This doesn't then mean that society doesn't need these professions.

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No only fpbp, how can they provide any sources when most of these illegals stay in the shadows? It's fucking bullshit. They can't even get an accurate count because they want to deny asking if people are citizens or not on the consensus.

Do they count for all the jobs illegals take under the table? Fuck no, they don't even know how much they are paid if under the table. It's fucking ridiculous.

This

>if you dont count most of the services illegals constantly use, theyre a net benefit to the economy!

Bruce can you please go make entertaining shitposts instead of abbo tier retardation.

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>Those are the numbers for aggregate legal and illegal
Exactly they're bullshit. Combining two groups of people that have nothing to do with eachother.

did you not read where it said LIFETIME budgetary impact?

These aren't even comparable countries though. Brazil's been a corrupt shit hole for all of its history, the US probably has the best established institutions (property rights, fair and equitable courts, accountable government) for long term economic growth and this is borne out by its success as a country. Demographically the US has gone through major shifts in the past and this has never lead to an erosion of these institutions.

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and read this
cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-immigration.pdf

>The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate
for state and local governments do not offset
the total cost of services provided to those immigrants.

This. Immigrants arent apples to apples. Legal immigrants tend to be of better stock, vetted and often have employment lined up in vital sectors.

Illegal immigrants are stupid fucks who cant be fucked to wait in a queue and unsurprisingly lack valuable skillsmin the labor market.

That's a curious way to run analysis.

> Take illegals
> Take their next 2 generations of offspring
> Bundles them together with legal immigrants
> Also grab legal immigrants children
> Only THEN can you start seeing net benefit

You can't just randomly start combining unrelated groups as well as bundle not yet existent groups into one pile and do analysis on that!
That's akin to grabbing Jeff Bezos, Steve Cook, and the poorest county of Kentucky and then proclaiming that on average they are all millionaires who have crated Billions of dollars of economic value.

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>These aren't even comparable
We'll just teach the third world animals our values, right? Time to grow up.

The average IQ of Mexicans is 88, newrly a std deviation below the US average, whereas the previous surging groups were of better stock.

Once again youre making false equivalences to suit an entirely (((suspect))) argument.

>Brazil's been a corrupt shit hole for all of its history

Not really.

The goal is to turn the entire world into a big Brazil.

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Worries over household debt is overrated, a larger and larger percent of people have investments in financial assets and their homes, its incomplete to solely consider debt.

Social security payroll tax, fuel excise and sales tax. Whats stranger is you think they are able to consume such massive amounts of resources whilst also being illegal.

Even though that goes against what other studies show and they don't explain how they did the analysis or what programs they included, or what type of taxes they claim these people pay...
IF THEY'RE SO GREAT THEN WHY DO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES SUCK AND WHY DON'T THEY STAY THERE AND FIX THEM?

also it's from 2010. Much better info:
>fairus.org/issues/workforce-and-economy

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Also doesn't take account for the cowardish nature of immigrants leaving their shitholes back as shitholes. Immigrants are even worse useful idiots for the oligarchs than lefties. Like running away from an abusive government to suck the boots of others abusive governments countering decades of fighting by the natives. Also tax income as positive metric, does it even get more communistic

Doesn’t count non-sanctuary states where they are unable to apply because they’d get reported as well. So basically their benefits to taxes ratio is only for a few hard blue states, imagine if this graph represented all of the states.

So why don’t you go and live in their countries then? It’s not like they create shit countries with their inferior cultures right?

You are such a moron it's painful to look at you.

>Investments in financial assets
cnbc.com/2017/06/19/heres-how-many-americans-have-nothing-at-all-in-savings.html
How can they invest anything when two thirds have less than 1k in savings?

>Their homes
Home ownership is at it's lowest rate since the mid 90s

It’s had lots of Europeans with the same values, add the Mexicans and it started to get shit. You’re not really selling your bullshit very well

>forget that they steal jobs from citizens
economists are hacks and they know it

Is county, state and federal budget impact not enough?

Besides this is honestly a retarded point, its still an apples to apples comparison of how immigrants v native impact government budgets.

Sorry, I interpreted wrong

>"In fact, a 2007 cost estimate by the Congressional Budget Office found that a path to legalization for unauthorized immigrants would increase federal revenues by $48 billion but would only incur $23 billion of increased costs from public services, producing a surplus of $25 billion for government coffers"

hamiltonproject.org/papers/ten_economic_facts_about_immigration/

This earlier figure refers only to illegal

God you're retarded, read your fucking source. He only uses figures from the 2014 federal budget, extrapolates that out as if everyone pays the same amount of tax every year they're alive and comes to his conclusion.

voxday.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/the-cost-of-black-america.html

Plenty of jobs don't require skills at all. Many just require that you'll forgo safety or good pay.

each illegal ads approximately $1,100. Per annum. sales tax is about all they pay.

I DON T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE ECONOMY ! i d rather have the GDP lower than have criminals on the street . SAFETY OVER MONEY !

yup, and they don't pay federal taxes because they don't have a SS#
I have no idea why these lunatics think lowering everyone's quality of life and let in millions of 3rd worlders is a good idea

Fuck you, my state has no sales tax so they add nothing.

Its kinda misleading, the caption appears to imply this but if you click through to the website they talk about illegal immigrants tax burden in citing a seperate CBO report.

Right, thats why over one third of your country are literally animals and things like wages, GDP and life expectancy are all rising and things like crime are falling?

That source takes it from here
archive.is/sBR50
He breaks it down by income bracket

>Taxes paid by immigrants (legal and illegal)

What about just illegal?

>things like wages, GDP and life expectancy are all rising and things like crime are falling?
For now, and it's more the result of technology than anything. I truly believe demographics determine the rest. If you have a lot of mestizos, your society is going to look a lot like the average mestizo society. Even with all that cool fanfare about patriotic rebellion to establish a liberal utopia for every subhuman and European descendant in North America alike.

Yes governments see the nation as a money making machine as opposed to a people

Cool, we will give them a free one way ticket to Israel with those numbers

also read here
cis.org/Testimony/Fiscal-and-Economic-Impact-Immigration-United-States

>conflating illegals with legal immigrants
Nigga please.

>How can they invest anything when two thirds have less than 1k in savings?
So much confidence...

Yet also so incredibly retarded

Saving rates are so low specifically because more and more income is poured into higher return volatile stock market than the much lower returns of savings accounts

>Home ownership is at it's lowest rate since the mid 90s
Fair enough, 2008 pretty much ruined that investment

What period has Brazil ever been successful though? Was there really some kind of a golden age before all the Mexicans?

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Only one half of americans own stock, richest 10 percent own 84 percent of stocks, and only 32 percent of americans have a 401k
So incredibly retarded

Fpbp

And stock ownership has been decreasing since the financial crisis

Note what they do here? They mislead intentionally by combining illegal and legal immigration numbers.

>All immigrants from anywhere is the same as illegal immigrants from South America

Fuck off.

does it include the cost of monies sent back across the border to support families/ friends left behind?

This but it also doesn't consider the fact they destroy labor markets by undercutting wages. They also are brainless and ruin traffic.

>tfw Bruce the aussie gets proven a charlatan in the first post

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>Also would you rather be sending these countries aid and not getting the cheap labour of immigrants?
it’s sad and weird you cant even imagine a scenario where you aren’t giving something to them.
How bout this? No aid and don’t let any of them in.

mexico's economy depends on those remittances, they get more from that than they do from oil exports.
time to start taxing the fuck out of those too

and mexicans on Jow Forums don't take this personally but it's not you, it's your third world narco state government

If they're a legal immigrant that means the taxes they pay are also exceeding the cost for regular citizens as well.

And if they aren't legal they aren't paying taxes. Who the fuck came up with this?

Dude I don't know what to tell you he's still using figures for tax burden for single year for groups of people that differ up to 14 years in age and acting as if this comparison justifies lifetime difference in savings.

I'm sorry, people don't pay the same amount of tax every year of their life.

>I truly believe demographics determine the rest
How much could 'the rest' possibly be? States like New Mexico are already majority minority and its not like these places reflect Mexico or any other central/south American country in terms of crime, economy, government

>If you have a lot of mestizos, your society is going to look a lot like the average mestizo society
Institutions are very real and can be inflexible. The success of white countries is incredibly varied specifically for this reason. In reality countries aren't tiered in a racial caste system. African countries with incredibly good institutions like Botswana are able to beat out European countries like Albania, Serbia, Bosnia and Georgia in GDP and countries like Spain and Czech republic in CPI. Getting stuck in an idea that demographics corresponds to success gives a very limiting view of the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

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More accurate statement that adjusts for age
>This compares to an average lifetime net fiscal drain (taxes paid minus services used) of $65,292 for each illegal immigrant excluding any costs for their children

These people also aren't the ones racking up household debt. I'm just explaining why we currently see less income spent on reducing debt than income spent on increasing assets.

He literally just declares that it didn't account for those things without any proof to back it up.

I'm not *giving* anything to them if they work for the money they send back home.

guarantee you it doesn't include the cost of educating their children

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>they are net contributors if we ignore over half the costs
In the same way that humanity is intelligent if we ignore all the niggers?
But of course rabbi, how could I doubt

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Giving them a spot in the country. A spot they have in their own btw.

>both legal and unauthorized.

gee, i wonder why they lumped those two together.

Where is this statement from?

>"Both the immigrant children and children of U.S.-born citizens are expensive when they are young because of the costs of investing in children’s education and health. Those expenses, however, are paid back through taxes received over a lifetime of work."

hamiltonproject.org/papers/ten_economic_facts_about_immigration/

Never does, $4000 per kid per year at least plus free breakfast/lunch.

>wages, life expectancy attributed to immigration
Yeah, no, youre pretty damn good at this false equivalence game huh?
The sky is blue ergo illegal immigration is good amirite?

I know right, how fucked up is our society that American tax revenue isn't spent primarily and exclusively for its citizens?

you can use ITIN number to pay taxes numb nuts

>Plenty of jobs dont require skill at all
Objectively false first of all as any job requires a measure of skill, even on the low end. Tending a register or guarding a facility may be dumbdumb work but a literal retard couldnt do it.

The problem is these types of jobs are rapidly disappearing, between automation and offshoring. There isnt a massive need for low skilled/menial labor.

>both legal and unauthrorized

>economist
>politically sensitive topic
guaranteed slant piece

why are we stealing these assets feom poor countries?

lol, you are the biggest economy in the world.
How much longer are you going to turn a blind eye towards business entities and let them get away with blaming immigrants?

wrong again. They are comparable to whites and blacks.
demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/FACTSHEET_TheColorofDebt_Demos.pdf
Also this
>A person need not be a citizen or a permanent resident to obtain a mortgage, credit card, car loan, or student loan.

To get a mortgage, for example, an illegal immigrant need only show a history of paying taxes, have a down payment, and possibly have other documentation of income. Alterra Home Loans, for one, explicitly offers home loans to people with no Social Security card and no documents to prove legal status. According to a 2009 Pew Hispanic Center survey, about 35 percent of “unauthorized immigrant households” own homes.
It is not clear how many mortgages have been given to undocumented immigrants. If we assume 1 million of the 11 million estimated immigrants in the U.S. without papers currently have a mortgage of $50,000 (a third of the average of $172,806), this conservative estimate would put about $50 billion at risk during a mass deportation.

Literally a Rothschild magazine that revels in esoteric 2spoopy nonsense for its year ahead predictions, you cant make this stuff up.

Pretty safe to say that the averages will stay around the same each year. It's foolish to present them as exact numbers, though, I agree. Can you speak to the 2014 figures, though? You think Hispanics are gonna turn a -7.3k per year per capita figure around with a few more 85 IQ dirt farmers? You fucking goblin lover.

Good goyim, tell the nationalist bastards how they should accept migrants regardless of cultural and social differences... because economically they are still better than nothing!

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and they want $12 from my broke student self for the perusing privledge

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fpbp

>Yeah, no, youre pretty damn good at this false equivalence game huh?
Well these things (on some level or other) relate to labour supply/demand but its not really necessary for the point. If demographics are the guiding force of a society you'd expect a decline in whites to adversely impact these indicators of living standards.

>Objectively false first of all as any job requires a measure of skill, even on the low end. Tending a register or guarding a facility may be dumbdumb work but a literal retard couldnt do it.
Ok sure *technically* on a base level you need to be able to do some things but at this point Mexicans have proven themselves pretty capable at cooking, gardening, cleaning, working a register, harvesting etc.

>The problem is these types of jobs are rapidly disappearing, between automation and offshoring
Not so much offshoring because you can't really do that for service based industries

Also most of the fastest growing occupations are low skilled jobs among which immigrants are disproportionately represented, automation is increasing the skill barrier for work but there's still going to be increasingly plenty of low skill work available.

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>title clearly says immigrants as a combined group of illegal and legal and doesn't differentiate the two. Doesn't show specifically what illegals pay.
>Look guys one part of the group talked about, illegals pay their fair share!

Learn to math you imbecile.

>States like New Mexico are already majority minority
source?
>African countries with incredibly good institutions like Botswana are able to beat out European countries like Albania, Serbia, Bosnia and Georgia in GDP and countries like Spain and Czech republic in CPI.
Would you actually want to live in Botswana though? What if millions of say Europeans or Americans did just that? How long before the jungle niggers overrun it, you institute apartheid, eventually get railroaded by the international Jew into citizenship for all Africans, and the country promptly turns to shit? Importing large amounts of people from poor and violent countries is at least as shortsighted as overlooking institutional and administrative efficiency and its effect on peaceful society.

This is credit card debt...

The bulk of household debt comes from loans for cars, houses and college tuition

>According to a 2009 Pew Hispanic Center survey, about 35 percent of “unauthorized immigrant households” own homes.
>2009
But did not know this, would be interesting to see how the financial crisis affected this and whether or not this was an artefact of lending practices leading up to this.

skimming facts is fucking retarded if youre doing it for a "10.9 million by January 2016" (illegal aliens) population of people

as someone who could only get a job in a fucking food truck after highschool becuase the other job i had at subway was ran by a stupid fucking beaner who didnt speak any english and hated me for being white and got me fucking fired bc hes a fucking retard
and apply to 17 other goddam places that when i walk in are ran by niggers and spics
mind you this is central texas
i fucking hate spics
they drive shitty cars
they cant speak english
they hate this country and burn our flags
i dont need all this economic bullshit when its common knownlage that spics will work for $2 an hour and are fucking up the economy for starter jobs

"plenty of jobs require no skill at all"
yeah no shit but plenty of jobs want you to have experience you stupid fucking idiot